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Title: Al-Araf ("dwellers on the Heights") Post by: Ruhi_Rose on August 16, 2010, 02:54:04 am BismAllah Ar Rehman Ar Raheem As-salaam Alaykom folks! This being the month of Ramadan, I'm reading the Quran still more extensively than other months. I was reading Surah Al-Araf (7th Chapter of the Noble Quran) tonight. My question is regarding Verses 44 to 49 of Surah Al-Araf. We know the meaning of "dwellers of the Garden" and "dwellers of the Fire," that is, those to are fortunate to enter Paradise and those unfortunate ones who enter Hellfire, respectively. Then, in Verse 48 there is mention of "dwellers on the Heights." I first thought this also refers to the dwellers of Paradise or Garden. But on reading verses 44 to 49 carefully, obviously "dwellers on the Heights" does not refer to those who enter the Garden. Can anyone please explain what this expression refers to? In Verse 46 this expression is also referred to as "on the Heights are men who know them all by their marks." I would really like this to be explained to me, please. JazekAllah khair. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Zainab_M on August 16, 2010, 03:23:48 am Walaikum Salaam sis. I hope Ramadan is going well for you and your family. And, Alhumdulilah. May Allah Almighty reward your reading of the Quran. I'm also busy with this beautiful Book. Coming to your question which is a very intelligent one, the people of Araf (Heights) will be those who are neither righteous enough to enter Paradise nor wicked enough to be cast into Hell. They will, therefore, dwell at a place situated between the two. Hence, Araf or Heights is a place between Paradise and Hellfire. This is the only Surah where Allah has mentioned of the existence of a place called "Heights," and this is the only information we have about it. Thus, it is confirmed that there is also a middle path between Paradise and Hellfire. Actually, in Verse 163 of Surah Al-Imran (3rd Chapter), there is also a reference to this aspect. "There are degrees (of grace and reprobation) with Allah, and Allah is Seer of what they do." 3:163 (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=3123.0) In this Verse, Allah plainly states that reward and punishment with Him will have various grades. That's obviously because the righteous and the unrighteous people are of different categories. Some righteous ones are more righteous than other good ones, while some unrighteous ones are even worse than the rest of the bad ones. Coming back to Surah Al-Araf regarding your question, I am quoting a tafsir from a tafsir website in English. It's quite a nice commentary of the Verses you wanted to be explained and further clarifies this matter. Quote The trialogue between the People of Paradise, the People of the Fire and the People of the Heights gives some indication of the tremendous range of human faculties in the Next World. These faculties would increase to such an extent that the People of Paradise, the People of the Fire and the People of the Heights will be able to see, hear and talk to one another. Other Qur'anic statements about the Hereafter enable us to realize that the laws operating in the Next World will be altogether different from those in this world. Notwithstanding this, human personalities will not undergo any such change. Those who cannot perceive anything beyond the present limited world and who are incapable of imagining scales bigger than the ones relating to the present world, make fun of the statements in the Qur'an and about life in the Hereafter. This only betrays their poverty of understanding and imagination, and exposes the narrow and limited nature of their own minds. Unquote For the ready reference of all readers, Verses 44 to 49 of Surah Al-Araf are quoted as follows: BismEm "And the dwellers of the Garden cry unto the dwellers of the Fire: We have found that which our Rab promised us (to be) the Truth. Have you (too) found that which your Rab promised the Truth ? They say: Yea, verily. And a crier in between them cries: The curse of Allah is on evil-doers, (7:44) Who debar (men) from the path of Allah and would have it crooked, and who are disbelievers in the Last Day. (7:45) Between them is a veil. And on the Heights are men who know them all by their marks. And they call unto the dwellers of the Garden: Peace be unto you! They enter it not although they hope (to enter). (7:46) And when their eyes are turned toward the dwellers of the Fire, they say: Our Rab! Place us not with the wrong-doing folk. (7:47) And the dwellers on the Heights call unto men whom they know by their marks, (saying): What did your multitude and that in which you took your pride avail you ? (7:48) Are these they of whom you swore that Allah would not show them mercy ? (Unto them it has been said): Enter the Garden. No fear shall come upon you nor is it you who will grieve. (7:49) Related post: Rewards and punishments have various grades (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=3123.0) Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: N. Truth Seeker on August 16, 2010, 03:36:13 am JazekAllah Khair .... thanks for this question sister Ruhi. I was myself meaning to ask this since quite sometime but I kept getting involved with other discussions. I felt quite sure that Araf (Heights) apparently means a place between Jannat and Jahanum, but I needed to confirm it.
Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on August 22, 2010, 05:00:42 am Yeah, same here brother ts. I too had been wanting a truthful interpretation of "Araf." Thanks sister Zeynab for a very nice elucidation. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Ruhi_Rose on August 24, 2010, 03:47:07 am Many, many thanks sister Zeynab. I did not have enough knowledge about this and I had been wondering what is meant by those who are in the "Heights." This means that the Heights is also a place in the Hereafter where a particular group of people will reside. I am wondering, because it's mentioned only in Surah 7 (Al-Araf) and in no other Surah, does this mean that Heights is not as important a place as Paradise and Hellfire, perhaps because the number of people here will be least? Of course, answers to such queries will be known only to Allah. But what would you think? Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on August 26, 2010, 04:57:41 am This means that the Heights is also a place in the Hereafter where a particular group of people will reside. I am wondering, because it's mentioned only in Surah 7 (Al-Araf) and in no other Surah, does this mean that Heights is not as important a place as Paradise and Hellfire, perhaps because the number of people here will be least? Of course, answers to such queries will be known only to Allah. But what would you think? You could be right Sis, but only Allah would know best. However, personally I don't think one should presume that information on Heights is not as important because it's mentioned only in one Surah. Even if some information is mentioned in just one Surah or one Verse, it's enough as a confirmation from Allah. The importance of the content must be understood from its meaning. Heights is a place that exists in the next world along with Paradise and Hellfire. That's confirmed. Thus, definitely it's just as important. This is my opinion. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Zainab_M on August 27, 2010, 03:44:52 am Correct .. my response is ditto as Sster Heba's. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Ruhi_Rose on August 31, 2010, 03:16:50 am Many thanks my sisters .. get your point.
Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: muslima on June 12, 2014, 01:45:07 pm salamem
hmm, yeah that's correct , people of Araaf are those,whose good and bad deeds are equal their evil deeds prevented them from qualifying to enter Paradise, and their good deeds qualified them to avoid the Fire. @ sis am adding bit more what i have learned, please correct me if am wrong !! Reference verse ! And stop them, for they must be questioned. 37:24 There are (yet) others, held in suspense for the command of Allah, whether He will punish them, or turn in mercy to them: and Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.9:106 The Araaf, or the heights also refers to obscure area which lies in between Jannah and jahanum where whose good deeds equal their evil deeds are held in a limbo , place Or wall (V, 57:13) , who would be seeing the happenings in Paradise and Hell both and will be talking to people on both sides and their decision would be in pending V 9:106 by Allah on where they would go, to jannah or to jahanum , as verse 7:46 says!! these have not yet entered the Garden though they are hopeful of entering it, so they will be stopped there on the wall or area, or path until Allah judges them ,that's why these people are called people of Araaf / those who are tied in good and bad deeds, and waiting for a Allah's decision and hoping for Allah's mercy to tip the scale.they say: Our Lord! Place us not with the wrong-doing folk 7:47 As Quran tells us in many places that on the day of resurrection Allah will judge good and bad deeds , and it is explained in verses like 9:106 , and 107 when ALLAH balances good and evil deeds in the scale /Mizan and distinguishes companions of paradise from companions of Hell, He will make those wait for quite some time whose good and evil deeds are equal, just For understanding ! why i said they(imams) will be among the people of Araaf , we can see in worldly eyes, people do thing that imams , ulemas and all such munafiq leaders are sin free, ministers of jannah and they too considered themselves an angel but none know who u are in the sight of Allah , He Al mighty Alone have authority to judge each soul ,the final decision maker is ultimately Allah . And say (unto them): Act! Allah will behold your actions, and (so will) His messenger and the believers, and ye will be brought back to the Knower of the Invisible and the Visible, and He will tell you what ye used to do.9:105 And (there are) others who await Allah's decree, whether He will punish them or will forgive them. Allah is Knower, Wise. 9:106 And as for those who chose a place of worship out of opposition and disbelief, and in order to cause dissent among the believers, and as an outpost for those who warred against Allah and His messenger aforetime, they will surely swear: We purposed naught save good. Allah beareth witness that they verily are liars.9:107 And those whose scales are heavy ( with good deeds) it is they who are the successful. But those whose scales are light – those are the ones who have lost their souls, (being) in Hell, abiding . The fire burneth their faces, and they are glum therein.. 23:102-104 that's what i have learned Rest of the correct and final truth belongs to Allah alone My Question is regarding 57:13 i mentioned above ,is this same, barrier, Or wall or place a sort of limbo mention in surah al Araaf,? explain it little more please ?? Inside it will be mercy, and outside it will be torment., 57:13 doest it mean !! You're safe inside this place as long as the decision does not made , outside Punishment /hell ?, a wall will be put up between them, with a gate therein. Inside it will be mercy, and outside it will be torment.. 57:13 feedback please :) Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on June 15, 2014, 02:21:37 am Walaikum As-Salam dear Sister. I'm glad you're feeling better. Yeah the throat continues to hurt as it gets abraded by the friction of continuous coughing. Insh'Allah, it will heal .. just needs a bit more time. Many thanks for the additional info. From what I understand, the Heights or Al-Araf is a place where a certain category of people will reside, probably ones who are in between the righteous and the unrighteous. But Allah knows best. Whether or not the residents of the Heights will stay there forever is only known to Allah. None else can confirm that. It must also be kept in mind that most likely the Heights has many more details which Allah has not yet told us, in the same way as many more details about Paradise and Hellfire might also be known to us only on the Last Day. It's only Allah Who knows everything, all the time. On the day when the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women will say unto those who believe: Look on us that we may borrow from your light! it will be said: Go back and seek for light! Then there will separate them a wall wherein is a gate, the inner side whereof containeth mercy, while the outer side thereof is toward the doom. 57:13 This is apparently a conversation between believers and hypocrites on the Day of Judgment after Allah has dispensed His Judgment for both. I don't think it refers to the Heights. The separation could be a reference to the area which constitutes the main separating line (or wall) between Paradise and Hell. The side that contains mercy alludes to the direction of Paradise and the other side leads (or faces) the direction of Hell. This is my opinion as I read it. We cannot say anything more as all further details are know to Allah alone. There are many such verses in the Quran that are briefly descriptive of situations in the Hereafter or in Jannat or in Hellfire. The precise accuracy of all similar verses can only be known to Allah. We can only presume on the basis of our own understanding with the help of whatever details we have already been given in the Quran. Hence, different people may interpret it differently but none has the authority to declare their view as the universal one. The final interpretation is only up to Allah. The term "barrier" is also used in certain other contexts. In Surah al-Mumin Verse 23:100 "That I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay! It is but a word that he speaks; and behind them is a barrier until the day when they are raised." In this Verse, in my personal opinion, "barrier" basically refers to the separation of the soul from this world after it has passed into the other world. This separation disallows them to communicate with the earthly world. What lies behind that barrier is known to Allah only. I won't comment on that because that would only amount to speculations which is what the Hadithists do. They try to interpret this Verse in order to make it tally with the Hadith narrations on "barzakh." They claim barrier means "barzakh" which according to them is the place where souls are kept until raised. However, Allah has only confirmed to us that the soul remains in His custody after it passes from this world. He has not specified the place where He keeps the souls and neitehr has He defined it as "barzakh." So we cannot make such claims. To find precisely the Quranic information given to us about the soul, kindly refer to our post and thread 'The concept of soul as per the Quran.' (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=512.0) This thread contains the complete info on the soul as per the Quran, nothing more, nothing less. And those whose scales are heavy ( with good deeds) it is they who are the successful. But those whose scales are light – those are the ones who have lost their souls, (being) in Hell, abiding . The fire burneth their faces, and they are glum therein.. 23:102-104 Exactly. But it's Allah Who will choose & decide which actions and intentions are negative enough to lighten our scales and which ones benefit our souls and thus make our scales heavier. We could definitely have a general idea in several cases. For example, some people openly disbelieve and do all sorts of Haram acts. On the other side, some people are very obviously righteous believers and never indulge in anything confirmed as Haram by Allah. Thus, we would know that the former's scales will be light in the Hereafter while the latter's scales will be heavy or heavier. But the exact weighing can only be specified by Allah for both groups; and in accordance with that precise weighing, the grade or level of the person's righteousness or unrighteousness will be determined by Him. Similarly it's only Allah Who can determine which persons will dwell in the Heights. "And stop them, for they must be questioned." 37:24 This verse also refers to one of the procedures in the Hereafter concerning the disbelievers. This is how I understand it. They will be gathered separately from the believers; and prior to be taken to Hellfire, they will be questioned about their violations when they will acknowledge their sins as an evidence so they may realize that they are only being paid for the ills they did. I think it refers to the disbelievers in general. "And as for those who chose a place of worship out of opposition and disbelief, and in order to cause dissent among the believers, and as an outpost for those who warred against Allah and His messenger aforetime, they will surely swear: We purposed naught save good. Allah beareth witness that they verily are liars."9:107 This Verse basically refers to a bunch of munafiqs in Medinah who surreptitiously built a masjid only to misguide people with their discreetly noxious talks. But similar mindsets were also found in later times including the present. In my opinion we could consider such munafiqs to be in a comparable category with some of the imams today who lie telling people to drink water while fasting or allowing sexual intercourse with spouses during fasting. "And (there are) others who await Allah's decree, whether He will punish them or will forgive them. Allah is Knower, Wise." (9:106) True. Actually, from what I assume from reading the preceding and following verses of V.9:106 is that after the Prophet (pbuh) immigrated to Medinah, most residents of Medinah helped him but there were some bad apples who carried out opposition or disobedience in different ways. Then some repented and took the path of righteousness, some did not. So I think the reference is to those who realized their mistakes and were later hopeful of being forgiven by Allah. It's basically the same with everyone. Even today when we make mistakes and repent, if our repentance (taubah) is sincere, we can have hopes of Allah's forgiveness. But we can be sure whether or not we have received His forgiveness only on the Last Day. Hence, as I see it, the Verse emphasizes that every bit of final decision depends on Allah. In the context of our discussion, let me also add the following two verses which I've always loved. "There are degrees (of grace and reprobation) with Allah, and Allah is Seer of what they do. " 3:163. V.3:163 (already quoted by Sister Zeynab) should answer lots of questions people often raise. It confirms that Allah's Judgment is not in 'black & white.' There are grades of righteousness as well as unrighteousness. Therefore, some good persons might receive greater bliss in Jannat compared to other good persons, depending on the levels and scales of righteousness of all. Same is the case with the violators. The important thing here is that only and only Allah is authorized to determine every individual's quality and level of conduct. The following V.53:32 is a wonderful one which further highlights this concept of Allah being the Final Judge. "He is Best Aware of you (from the time) when He created you from the earth, and when ye were hidden in the bellies of your mothers. Therefor ascribe not purity unto yourselves. He is Best Aware of him who wardeth off (evil)." 53:32. This Verse is a clear hint on the self-righteous pharisees who often preach what they don't quite practice, who might blame others yet perform much the same deeds themselves. Verse 53:32 actually connects with Verse 9:106, in that, even as a righteous person we are not entitled to take Allah's forgiveness for granted by confirming with our own tongues that we are pure. Rather according to the rules of humility, we must continue with our endeavors to please Allah and instead of bragging about our endeavors before others, we should humbly and silently wait for His Final Judgment. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Zainab_M on June 15, 2014, 05:12:41 pm From what I understand, the Heights or Al-Araf is a place where a certain category of people will reside, probably ones who are in between the righteous and the unrighteous. But Allah knows best. Whether or not the residents of the Heights will stay there forever is only known to Allah. None else can confirm that. It must also be kept in mind that most likely the Heights has many more details which Allah has not yet told us, in the same way as many more details about Paradise and Hellfire might also be known to us only on the Last Day. It's only Allah Who knows everything, all the time. Yes that is what it seems. @ Sister Muslima .. salaam. If you concentrate on the complete set of Verses from Surah Al-Araf on this topic, Verses 7:44-49, you get a clearer idea. In these Verses Allah describes the plight of the people of the heights briefly. When they call out to the dwellers of Jannat, they say "Peace be unto you!" And Allah mentions of them that "They enter it not although they hope (to enter)." This obviously means they did not qualify for any of the grades of Jannat because their deeds were not good enough. When they look towards the dwellers of Hellfire, they say "Our Lord! Place us not with the wrong-doing folk." This again indicates they are not in Hellfire, perhaps because their deeds were not so bad to deserve Jahanum. The last Verse "Are these they of whom ye swore that Allah would not show them mercy ? (Unto them it hath been said): Enter the Garden. No fear shall come upon you nor is it ye who will grieve." In this Verse the people of the heights are referring to the dwellers of Jannat and conveying to the dwellers of Hellfire how wrong they were to think that the righteous believers would not be rewarded by Allah. This gives us a reason to presume that the dwellers of the heights are the middle people whose good & bad deeds might be neutral. However only Allah knows the exact details on all such issues. I don't think the people of the heights are those who will be awaiting the decision of Allah. From the way I understand Verses 7:44-49, it seems that the decision of Allah will already be dispensed to them on the Day of Judgment. They will not be kept waiting; the Quran does not convey any information regarding definite pending decisions from Allah on the Day of Judgment. This itself will be the Day of Decision. The people of the Heights are also referred in the Quran as the "dwellers on the Heights." The definition of "dweller" is a person who lives at a particular place. That gives a reason to presume that their presence in the heights is itself the decision of Allah for them on the Day of Judgment. The Heights apparently seems to be a third category of accommodation in the next world. From the verses quoted, I can only surmise that this category is for people whose scales of good and bad deeds & intentions weigh neutral. Hence they have been put in a place that's neutral too. However, what might be the future decision of Allah for each individual residing in the heights is only known to HIM. Whether or not the heights is a permanent abode is best known to Allah only. It might be so that the future decision of Allah concerning them may also depend upon the level of neutrality of these people. Neutrality can also have grades & variations in the very accurate Sight and Judgment of Allah. It reflects on the perfection of Divine Justice, the vastness of the next world and the Bounty of Allah Who punishes an individual for a bad deed for exactly what they did, but rewards a person for a good deed by giving them even more. Alhumdulilah. This matter about the Heights has only been discussed in Surah Al-Araf in those Verses quoted in my first post (Verses 7:44-49). I don't see any references to it in other Surahs. Therefore, whatever conclusions we may arrive at, can be by the reading and interpreting these Verses only. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: muslima on June 16, 2014, 07:33:49 am wsalam dear Sis Zeyab
alright get it, clear !! :) thank U so much , am very grateful to both of U my dear sister Heba and sis Zeynab for ur time & wonderful verse by verse detailed explanation which is Very helpful indeed to learn more and more, jazak Allah khaireen , Allah bless u guys @ Putting here only to inform u just have checked Madudi's tafsir !! Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi also mention The people on 'the Heights' will be those with pending cases. http://www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/7/index.html Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an - The Meaning of the Qur'an 7. Surah Al Aaraf (The Heights) [46-49] Between these two groups, there shall be a barrier, on `the Heights,' on which will be some other people, who will recognize everyone of them by his countenance. They will call out to the inmates of Paradise, "Peace be upon you! "-They will not have yet entered Paradise, though they will be expecting to do so.34- 34The people on 'the Heights' will be those with pending cases. While their positive sides will not be so strong as to merit admission into Paradise, their negative sides will not be so weak as to condemn them to Hell. Therefore they will wait for the decisions of their cases on 'the Height' between Paradise and Hell. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on June 17, 2014, 02:08:44 am Walaikum Salam. You're welcomed.
34 While their positive sides will not be so strong as to merit admission into Paradise, their negative sides will not be so weak as to condemn them to Hell. Well yes, isn't that what Zeynab and I mentioned? Their deeds are neutral. That's what we personally presume, it's no final confirmation for that can only come from Allah. Therefore they will wait for the decisions of their cases on 'the Height' between Paradise and Hell. .... The people on 'the Heights' will be those with pending cases. Okay, but how did Maududi figure out that their decisions are pending? Can you please quote any other verses that highlight or hint that a certain group of people will be kept waiting on the Day of Judgment? By reading Verses 7:44-49 I don't get that impression. And none of the verses you quoted seem to have anything to do with Araf. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: muslima on June 17, 2014, 04:22:49 am salamem
no sis heba i don't know any other verse & all explanations are clear to me :) u get me wrong i guess :-\ ? i didn't meant to carry disagreement or anything els sis i put it here only to inform that maududi also said the same thing why no idea and i too didn't know that . i hope it's clear :) Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: N. Truth Seeker on June 17, 2014, 04:34:29 am Walaykum Salam.
The commonest interpretation is that the people of Araf are neither among the good nor the bad. They are in between. Everyone agrees to that. This information is reflected in those verses of Surah Al-Araf quoted by Sister Zeynab. Furthermore, the term "companions" (aṣḥābu) is used for the people of all 3 places. The people of Paradise, the people of Hell and the people of Al-Arafi are mentioned as "companions of Paradise," "companions of Hell" and "companions of the Heights," respectively. I think addressing them as "aṣḥābu" of the places where they reside apparently means they are the residents of the respective places - Paradise, Fire and Heights. Pickthall has used the word "dwellers" instead of "companion" in his translation for a clearer understanding. The only other information we have is their conversation as given in the quoted verses of Chapter Al-Araf. Verse 7:46 which states "Between them is a veil (or hijabun)." is interpreted by Corpus Quran as a "partition." Other than the above details, you cannot confirm anything else. If you try to, you're bound to fabricate stories or borrow tales from story-tellers. We cannot even confirm the exact level of comfort or discomfort Araf contains for its dwellers. As always, gossips abound. That notion on awaiting decision with slight variations comes from different sources such as medieval Muslim thinkers and philosophers of the sufi line and of course from the Hadith narrations with links it with the Sirat Bridge which according to Hadith is supposed to be a bridge over Hell. As we know, the hadith has woven a long story on the Sirat Bridge and the hadith-following tafsir writers and translators pick Verses 68 to 72 of Surah Maryam to represent "Sirat Bridge." Needless to say, those Verses of the Quran do not symbolize Sirat Bridge. Verses 19:68-72 don't even mention the word "bridge." They simply convey the message that everyone will get a glimpse of Hellfire prior to Judgment. Turkish writer, Mehmet Paksu, says that according to Ibn Abbas, Araf is a "balcony (surrounding minaret) up on the Sirat Bridge (bridge, which is thin, straight, and sharp will be laid across Hell with the command of God)." Mehmet also says that the reason why the people in the Araf are called as "Araf" or Heights is because of their recognizing humans for their actions. Again this is a presumption. We do not know the reason why that place is called "Araf." However there is surely a reason for it which is only known to Allah. Traditionalists have come up with many interpretations about Araf such as a curtain, a high wall, and a hill between Hell and Paradise. The guesswork goes on. Mehmet Paksu writes still more, quote "When God balances good and evil deeds in the scale (Mizan) and distinguishes companions of paradise from companions of Hell, He will make those wait for quite some time whose good and evil deeds are equal. Those who are going to be next to the Sirat Bridge will know the companions of Hell and the companions of Paradise." You see how he gives it a twist, mixing up the hadith or sufi contents and connecting it with the Quranic contents? It's from stories like these that the concept of "waiting" arises. Final paragraph of Mehmet's article on Araf, quote "Besides, there are some accounts, which reports that the companions of Araf are not humans but they are angels. All these explanations are in conformity with the conception and the interpretation of the verses." Again this statement is false and it's being falsely attributed to the Quran. Where does the Quran say the companions or dwellers of the heights are angels? Yet the writer claims that explanation is contained within the concept of the verses of Araf. A quote of Hasan Basri claims "These are the people who were assigned by the command of God to allocate the companions of Hell and the companions of Paradise. I swear it is true, they might be among us today." Excuse me? The people of the Heights are given the task of designating everyone else to Paradise and Hell ?? And then Basri swears he's speaking the truth. Their lies are shameful and annoying .. I would call it blasphemy. Another mind boggling guesswork by Ibrahim Hakki, a turkish sufi philosopher of the 1700s. He states, quote "insane and children of unbelievers who are not held responsible of religious duties are entitled to Araf. When they see people of Paradise just because they cannot reach those blessings, they are in sadness, but when they see people of Hell, they are thankful to the God for where they are and they stay there forever." So, now from "waiting for decision" they become the mentally insane and the kids of disbelievers. My only question is, why don't people read the Quranic verses carefully by connecting all the preceding and following ayats of every verse they want to understand ? And because the hadith writers, imams and sufis know that the people don't assess Quranic verses by making a chain of the significant successive verses, thus they take advantage and slip in hadith ideas. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on June 17, 2014, 04:38:02 am salamem no sis heba i don't know any other verse & all explanations are clear to me :) u get me wrong i guess :-\ ? i didn't meant to carry disagreement or anything els sis i put it here only to inform that maududi also said the same thing why no idea and i too didn't know that . i hope it's clear :) LOL :D I'm not hinting on disagreement sis. Anyone has the right to disagree. I'm only interested to know from where does this idea of people of the heights waiting for decision come ? Because, I can't find it in the Quran and yet a hear a lot of people saying it. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on June 17, 2014, 04:45:01 am Brother TS .... your piece is hugely informative. It tells still better how truth is either shunned or mixed up with tales. The gossips of folks like Basri and Hakki are much too shocking. Mehmet Paksu obviously has no problem using myths as options and putting them on the table.
I repeat, very nice piece brother. Shukran. Many thanks. JazekAllah khair. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: muslima on June 17, 2014, 05:42:16 am My bro many thanks for more new info i didn't know that much !! that , this issue has been hugely messed am upset for that , i am conscious about everything stated in Quran, that's why i asked here for confirmation and as i said i have learned what i wanted to sis zeynab explained very well to me in her 2nd post & i get that am not confused :) Quran contents are all above and final for me too Alhamdulillah i am able to reject and i do reject all extra Quranic information @ this nonsense of sirat bridge story always drive me crazy & i have already discussed here that topic on MV ... that's strange , how sirat bridge linked up too .and The paragraph of Mehmet's article on Araf,that the companions of Araf are not humans but they are angels. !! that sucks
Thanks everyone for great contribution to educate all of us .... jazakAllah salam and peace to all Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Zainab_M on June 17, 2014, 05:11:14 pm Salaams and many thanks dear sisters Heba, Muslima and brother TS. Also thank you sister Muslima for re-opening this discussion which helped to contribute some more very useful information.
Brother, this additional info was eye-opening! lol. I also wasn't aware of such an enormity of stories the human imagination has created on the topic of Heights. One of the very positive things I've learned on being a Quran alone follower is that if we keep everything within the boundaries of the Quran (which is what Allah wants us to do), we simplify matters greatly. It becomes much easier to understand every aspect under study and it eradicates contradictions. Inconsistencies arise only when humans poke their noses and create their own stories. Studying every Quranic verse in the light of Quranic information / principles makes it to the point and consistent. It prevents one's imagination running wild. A Quran alone believer will never claim to be able to answer all questions. That's realism and it's one of the beauties of being a Quran alone follower. Following the Quran teaches humility, honesty and acknowledging human boundaries. It's only Allah Who knows everything, not we. Many verses in the Quran either briefly elucidate or briefly refer to some factual existence in the Heavens or the universe or to some historical event which might not be within the reach of historical data or it could be outside the bounds of science to access. All such verses can only be interpreted within the evidences found in the Quran itself. Stepping beyond will get that interpretation contaminated with speculations/conjectures. So while reflecting on a certain verse, after I've touched all Quranic points and if someone still has further questions .. I simply say "I DON'T KNOW. ONLY ALLAH KNOWS IT." It's no infra dig. In fact it boosts one's status in the field of truth and knowledge. Unfortunately the imams think they have to show that they know the answers to all questions. No wonder the myths that keep popping up have acquired such a variety. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on June 17, 2014, 05:29:28 pm Yeah sis Muslima, I get your point which is true and perfectly understandable. JazekAllah khair and peace to you too.
One of the very positive things I've learned on being a Quran alone follower is that if we keep everything within the boundaries of the Quran (which is what Allah wants us to do), we simplify matters greatly. It becomes much easier to understand every aspect under study and it eradicates contradictions. Inconsistencies arise only when humans poke their noses and create their own stories. Studying every Quranic verse in the light of Quranic information / principles makes it to the point and consistent. It prevents one's imagination running wild. A Quran alone believer will never claim to be able to answer all questions. That's realism and it's one of the beauties of being a Quran alone follower. Following the Quran teaches humility, honesty and acknowledging human boundaries. It's only Allah Who knows everything, not we. Many verses in the Quran either briefly elucidate or briefly refer to some factual existence in the Heavens or the universe or to some historical event which might not be within the reach of historical data or it could be outside the bounds of science to access. All such verses can only be interpreted within the evidences found in the Quran itself. Stepping beyond will get that interpretation contaminated with speculations/conjectures. So while reflecting on a certain verse, after I've touched all Quranic points and if someone still has further questions .. I simply say "I DON'T KNOW. ONLY ALLAH KNOWS IT." It's no infra dig. In fact it boosts one's status in the field of truth and knowledge. Unfortunately the imams think they have to show that they know the answers to all questions. No wonder the myths that keep popping up have acquired such a variety. Thumbsup Couldn't agree more sis. Something else I've observed and I don't know how far that's correct. When people talk about this topic they usually make references in the present tense. In some traditional forums I've also observed they have connected it with punishments in the grave. What do you folks think on that? I know it's a subjective issue and only Allah knows it best. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Zainab_M on June 17, 2014, 06:14:40 pm Something else I've observed and I don't know how far that's correct. When people talk about this topic they usually make references in the present tense. In some traditional forums I've also observed they have connected it with punishments in the grave. What do you folks think on that? I know it's a subjective issue and only Allah knows it best. Hummm, I too have observed a very emphatic present tense in lots of discussions often connecting the people of the Heights with azab in the qabr, the latter itself being a very hadith based idea :) I think this is what prompts the "scholars" to speak in the present tense. As we know, in most cases punishment will begin on the Day of Judgment. In some cases however for certain people it could begin soon after death. The two examples I can think of are Pharoah and Noah's folk. "The Fire; they are exposed to it morning and evening; and on the day when the Hour uprises (it is said): Cause Pharaoh's folk to enter the most awful doom." (40:46). "Because of their sins they were drowned, then made to enter a Fire. And they found they had no helpers in place of Allah." (71:25 Surah Noah). Verse 40:46 about Pharoah and his people indicates their punishment began soon after death and on the Day of Judgment it will be further intensified. Vese 71:25 on Noah's folks, "they were drowned, then made to enter a Fire" indicates that they have already been sent to Hellfire. Similarly, even the rewards of some may begin soon after death, if Allah Wills, though I cannot recall any verses on that at the moment. If anyone can remember a verse or verses in that context, please quote for our assistance. However, all of the above can be taken as exceptional cases. As a standard rule of Allah, from what I understand reward and punishment generally begin on the Day of Resurrection. As for the Heights, the Quranic verses do not specify the present. If you read word by word at Quranic Corpus, Verses 7:44-49 here (http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=44) and continued here (http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=46) and here (http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=48), it doesn't indicate present tense either. So I would presume it will take place on the Day of Judgment. The present tense on this topic apparently comes from concepts outside the Quran. But like you said, only Allah knows the final truth. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: N. Truth Seeker on June 17, 2014, 06:26:07 pm Salam again and thank you everyone for your understanding and feedback.
On the issue of present tense, I second your opinion Sister Zeynab. That's more or less how I see it too. Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on June 17, 2014, 08:10:35 pm Right. That makes perfect sense. The Corpus Quran links are good references and helpful for discerning such points. Sometimes different rules of grammar of Arabic and other languages of translation could also play a role in such misunderstandings. But mostly it's the writers of legends who are responsible for this kinda negative creativity. Thanks sis.
Title: Re: "dwellers on the Heights" Post by: Zainab_M on June 17, 2014, 08:12:40 pm Sometimes different rules of grammar of Arabic and other languages of translation could also play a role in such misunderstandings. That's a good point too. But like you said, usually it's hampered with traditionalism. Title: Re: Al-Araf ("dwellers on the Heights") Post by: Ruhi_Rose on November 10, 2018, 11:22:40 pm As-Salam Alaykum to all. Coming back to this very important information after 4 years. So, in a nutshell Al-Araf (الأعراف) is the borderline between Paradise and Hellfire or we can say it's the realm that separates Paradise from Hellfire; that Araf will be the home of people whose righteous and unrighteous deeds are evenly balanced. In another interesting discussion at our Muslim community centre last evening, a sister opined that the 'evenly balanced deeds' refers to those (or includes those) who did good deeds in this world but without belief in Allah. I mentioned that as for those who don't believe in Allah will surely be headed toward Hellfire because Allah has made this point ample clear in many Quranic Verses without a doubt .... those who die in a state of disbelief do not qualify for forgiveness at all. I would presume that regardless of a person's good deeds, if that person constantly rejected the presence of Allah, then for such a person even Al-Araf might be too good a place. Your opinion please. Title: Re: Al-Araf ("dwellers on the Heights") Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on November 10, 2018, 11:35:33 pm Walaikum As-Salam sister Ruhi. In my opinion you're absolutely right. No matter how good a person's deeds were in earthly world but if that person was a total disbeliever throughout their life, they cannot be counted as people with balanced deeds in the next world. They are the kuffar. The worth of earthly good deeds without belief in Allah has its validity only in this world. As the soul passes into the next world, the permanent world, the worth of those good deeds expire. As that person rejected Allah in earthly life so Allah will reject them in the Hereafter. This is what I understand from the Noble Quran and it sounds very fair and just to me. Related links for reference: - Good conduct without belief NOT enough to enter Paradise (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4539.0) - Every person receives what they have earned (Surah Bani Israel) (http://Every person receives what they have earned (Surah Bani Israel)) - "Can atheists go to Heaven?" (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4532.0) - Can believers take disbelievers as close friends? (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4415.0) - Do not stay in the company of those who don't think of Allah: (Surah An-Najm) (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2952.0) Title: Re: Al-Araf ("dwellers on the Heights") Post by: Zainab_M on November 10, 2018, 11:38:52 pm Totally agree with your opinion, sisters. I think this aspect has been explained very thoroughly in the related links. According to my perception too, disbelievers will not qualify for Al-Araf either. They will belong to Hellfire. Title: Re: Al-Araf ("dwellers on the Heights") Post by: Ruhi_Rose on November 11, 2018, 05:57:34 am Many thanks sisters. True, this is what I meant. Just wanted to confirm with some feedback. Alhumdulilah. Allah bless. |