|
Title: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: Ruhi_Rose on April 02, 2016, 01:40:27 am BismAllah .. and As-Salam Alaykum dear everyone. I need to learn some details regarding Verse 2:154 (Surah Al-Baqra) on martyrs quoted below: "And call not those who are slain in the way of Allah "dead." Nay, they are living, only you perceive not." (2:154). When Allah says that they are living "only you perceive not." .... does this mean the souls of martyrs traverse earthly world but we don't see them because human eyes cannot perceive the soul? But then I thought of Verses 99 and 100 of Surah 23, Al-Muminun. Quoting below: "Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Rab! Send me back, That I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay! It is but a word that he speaks; and behind them is a barrier until the day when they are raised." (23:99-100). The above Verses make it quite plain that according to the Laws of Allah, the dead cannot return to earth and "behind them is a barrier ...." Similar aspect that also been stated in Verse 19:98 (Surah Maryam), quote: "And how many a generation before them have We destroyed! Can you (Muhammad) see a single man of them, or hear from them the slightest sound " (19:98). So .. is there an exception in the case of martyrs whose souls can return to earth? Related posts: - Difference between jinn (fact) and 'ghost' (myth) (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1503.0) - Jinn in the Noble Quran (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1510.0) Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: Zainab_M on April 02, 2016, 01:46:12 am Walaikum As-Salaam dear Sister Ruhi. No, it doesn't mean that the martyrs' souls can return to earth. As per the Laws of Allah, the Verses you quoted from Surah Al-Muminun and Surah Maryam are sufficient to explain that after death no one can return to earthly world from the other realm. The same concept has also been expressed in certain other Verses. The concept stated in Verse 2:154 about martyrs is that their reward will begin from the time they leave this world. Allah will grant them plenty of provision in Paradise. In Paradise everyone is alive, NOT "dead." They will have a beautiful life in Paradise soon after achieving martyrdom, but those humans living on earth in flesh and blood cannot see their grand life. Humans tend to overlook or deny anything they cannot behold with their own eyes. Thus we must never think that martyrs are dead. In other words, martyrs will not have to wait until the Day of Resurrection for their reward. As we know, the Quran has referred to certain people whose reward or punishment will begin soon after death and they won't have to wait until Resurrection for Judgement for the Divine Decision. Pharaoh for instance will face Hellfire immediately, he must be there at the moment, and on the Day of Judgement his punishment will become still more severe. Similarly, martyrs will enjoy Paradise soon after martyrdom, but only we in this world cannot see them just as we cannot see anyone whose soul departs from this world to the next. Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: N. Truth Seeker on April 02, 2016, 01:56:26 am Walaykum Salam sisters. According to the commentary of Abu Alaa Maududi, Allah Almighty tells us not to refer to martyrs as dead because death is a depressing thought for many people and thinking of martyrs as dead may discourage some to struggle and make sacrifices for the sake of Allah. But I don't quite agree with this interpretation. The truth of the matter is that martyrs live on in Paradise from the time they achieve martyrdom, as Sister Zeynab expressed. Furthermore, the reason why Allah says not to think of them as "dead" is apparently a gesture of respect to the truth of their reward rather than cheering up people from the thought of death.
It must also be remembered that everyone whom people refer to as "martyrs" may not be the real martyrs in the Sight of Allah. Only HE decides who are the true martyrs. Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: Zainab_M on April 02, 2016, 02:07:14 am Thank you for the additional points brother TS. You're right. I too don't quite agree with what Maududi mentioned. In the Quran Allah never gives any inaccurate information for the purpose of cheering up the people. HE always states the truth. And concerning this matter, the truth is the extensive reward of martyrs in the Hereafter which everyone is not fortunate enough to acquire and is hidden from the view of the temporary dwellers of earth.
It must also be remembered that everyone whom people refer to as "martyrs" may not be the real martyrs in the Sight of Allah. Only HE decides who are the true martyrs. This is so correct. Nowadays in most Muslim countries the term "martyr" or "martyrdom" has been misused to such an extent that even if a corrupt politician dies they call him a "martyr." They have no idea of the high esteem which Allah Almighty has bestowed on genuine martyrs and therefore they use this term at random. These folks ought to be very, very careful. Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: N. Truth Seeker on April 02, 2016, 02:13:45 am You're welcomes Sister.
..... In the Quran Allah never gives any inaccurate information for the purpose of cheering up the people. HE always states the truth. And concerning this matter, the truth is the extensive reward of martyrs in the Hereafter which everyone is not fortunate enough to acquire and is hidden from the view of the temporary dwellers of earth. Exactly. JazekAllah Khair for that elucidation. .... Nowadays in most Muslim countries the term "martyr" or "martyrdom" has been misused to such an extent that even if a corrupt politician dies they call him a "martyr." ............. lol, so true. I remember when that notoriously corrupt lady politician died in Pakistan, I forget her name, she was also referred to as a "martyr." People really need to be careful. Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: Ruhi_Rose on April 02, 2016, 02:20:36 am Many, many thanks my sister and brother for this nice and concise bunch of information, and very fast. I get it now. Alhumdulilah.
And lol, br. TS, that late Pak lady politician was Benazir Bhutto immersed in corruption during her lifetime and many of those crazy folks do call her a "martyr." They will have to answer to Allah for speaking so falsely, InshAllah. Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: N. Truth Seeker on April 02, 2016, 02:23:28 am yes, that bhotto lady. Just imagine, calling her a "martyr" ....... You are right sister, for such intentional blunders involving falsehood people will have to answer to Allah Almighty, InshAllah, ameen.
Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: DannyT on October 02, 2016, 06:53:38 am Salaam sis(s) and brothers
I was always taught that punishment will be dished out in the grave whilst heaven bound souls will have be treated gently in the grave. Buy then isn't this in a way judgment before judgement day. For some to be punished or treated kindly don't they have to judged to a degree. Sister Z can you point out the verse please that states our I punishment for some after death.?? Jzk Is it possible that Allah in all his wisdom is talking about martyrs alive and in paradise in the future because he is not bound by time and space. Infact we do it sometimes like when a friend asks us for 5$ We say "done mate" as in no problem consider it done but it isn't actually happened yet but it guaranteed (wrong thing to do anyway because nothing is guaranteed unless by Allah) but I wonder sometimes of Allah is speaking in past and future tense as though it's present because he guaranteeing it or also because he is not bound by time. Also, if a soul is in a conscious state after death wouldn't they be bound by time and space because they will be linked to out time or judgment but if they were in a state of unconsciousness like sleep for example then time wouldn't matter to them and in this state they wouldn't be able to feel anything either. I know this probably not how it all is but I would still love to Know what the Quran says about life after death of any I have not come across any verses yet. Jzk and salamun Alaikum all. Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: Ruhi_Rose on October 02, 2016, 12:03:18 pm I understand you brother. Give me a moment. We have some useful posts on the points you've raised. Lemme find them and I'll put them up soon InshAllah.
Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: Zainab_M on October 02, 2016, 04:37:13 pm Walaykum Salam brother. I'm here before Sister Ruhi :) so I'll take care of posting some answers.
Salaam sis(s) and brothers I was always taught that punishment will be dished out in the grave whilst heaven bound souls will have be treated gently in the grave. Buy then isn't this in a way judgment before judgement day. For some to be punished or treated kindly don't they have to judged to a degree. Brother Danny, punishment in the grave is a very common hadith myth .. another one of those ideas completely unwarranted by the Quran. Hadith has borrowed this concept from pre-Islamic cultures. You may want to read the following posts to understand the discrepancies of such a notion. Hadith on punishments in the grave (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=3135.0) Fitna of the grave - myth about bodies of righteous believers preserved in the grave (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4628.0) Punishments in the grave for wetting clothes (i.e. if someone had a bladder control problem in earthly life which is a medical condition) (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4597.0) Is it possible that Allah in all his wisdom is talking about martyrs alive and in paradise in the future because he is not bound by time and space. Yes brother it does mean precisely that. What this post discusses is that martyrs won't return to this earthly world just as no soul can after it travels to the next world. but I wonder sometimes of Allah is speaking in past and future tense as though it's present Very correct brother, that too is often observed in the Noble Quran. For example, Surah 94 (Ash-Sharh) which is an early Makkan Surah comforts the Prophet (pbuh) at a time when he was perpetually being persecuted and threatened. Quoting the first 4 Verses of this Surah: "Have We not caused thy bosom to dilate, And eased thee of the burden Which weighed down thy back; And exalted thy fame ?" Mark the words "exalted thy fame." If someone takes it to be in the present, it wouldn't make sense to them. However this line is a prophecy about the Prophet's (pbuh) eventual success and his name remembered forever in future as the Final Messenger of Allah. Approximately 20 years later this prophecy came true .. absolutely true. It's an example of the Quran speaking of future events as already achieved. Sister also posted a piece recently on Verse 23:51 in which the Quran speaks of the past in the present tense. (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4646.0) Quoting Verse 23:51 "Messengers, eat good things and do good deeds: I am well aware of what you do." (23:51). Quoting the post "This Verse does not mean that all Prophets were present at the same place ans at the same time. But it simply alludes to the fact that all Prophets brought the SAME religion from Allah, The One and Only, and all messengers belonged to the same community (that is, community of Monotheistic believers)." After death time is naught, and time is no more required during death. Absolutely right. Also, if a soul is in a conscious state after death wouldn't they be bound by time and space because they will be linked to out time or judgment but if they were in a state of unconsciousness like sleep for example then time wouldn't matter to them and in this state they wouldn't be able to feel anything either. ..... but I would still love to Know what the Quran says about life after death of any I have not come across any verses yet. As we know, the Quran has given us quite a lot of information about life after the Day of Judgement .... and this is what we mean by the term "Hereafter." The question you put is very interesting which many ask, and it's something about which our clerics have made up many stories because Allah has not willed to disclose most of the information about the soul between death and Resurrection. Again, we have some helpful discussions on this subject completely in line with Quranic information that may help you, InshAllah. Concept of the soul elucidated in the Noble Quran (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=512.0) This refers to the nature of the existence of the soul between death and Resurrection. Barzakh (not a Quranic concept) (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=618.0) Awaiting the Day of Judgement (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1936.0) This is just so important and true. For all practical purposes, Resurrection and the Day of Judgement will be only days or hours after death. Hope all of this helps. If anything confuses you, do please post your questions. Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: Ruhi_Rose on October 02, 2016, 05:03:18 pm Aw! Thanko sis ..... :D
Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: DannyT on October 02, 2016, 06:03:27 pm Salaam all
Sister jzk for taking the time and patience to answer my questions so well. I pray Allah the most merciful rewards you and all the other sisters and brothers efforts on this board who painstakingly keep us informed with the truth. Thanks for clearing up so many of my misconceptions, I used to so afraid of punishments in the grave but I could never understand why Allah would want to do all the most things the hadiths mention, it's so outrageous that these fabrications made up against such a merciful Lord. I can only imagine how many children that are brought up with these fables are given such a false image about their Lord. Jzk dear sister Z and sister R for clearing things up and setting me up for a beautiful night of Quran reading. 😊😊😊. I will read the links highlighted too. Title: Re: Can martyrs return to earth? Ref.V.2:154 Post by: Ruhi_Rose on October 02, 2016, 06:32:08 pm You're welcomed brother .... and I can understand the relief. It was much the same with me, except that I was just as angry at the damn story tellers. |