The truth...

[Heba E. Husseyn]

WOW no need to write a thesis Sister! I honestly cant be bothered to read all that, can you just show me how to Pray five times Salah only using Quranic Aya. I am suffering from amnesia

That's it .. He's bowled, with the bails flying in thin air    Congrats sis!

What a fiasco for poor Hadithu   

"Amnesia"?  my foot!  you've been floored and u r looking for an outlet to escape like a scared rat.  why is this trait so common with all followers of "ulemas"?  why r they all so utterly ignorant that they can't even respond to simple challenges, and in this case the challenge was posted by none else but yourself.

Sis zeynab!  he couldn't even muster the guts to read.  It just knocked the wind out of the poor creature.  and it won't be good news for abul kalam either to see his envoy coming back with "amnesia" after a severe mental thrashing!    hadith for eva!  check yourself, i'm sure it must be beyond just "amnesia."  u gotta be gettin diarrhoea as well.


Truth has come and falsehood has vanished.  falsehood is ever bound to vanish.

Allah-o-Akbar.  Praise be to Allah Almighty and peace & love on our final Messenger.
The kufaar has run away, complaining & sobbing .... while tryin to hide his defeat with laughter.


P.S.  I intended to post my reply yesterday but couldn't because I was so swamped with my schedule.  So I meant to post it today and I will, but I'd prefer to post it in a separate thread.  It's just so sad that our newcomer has turned into a 'brown pant' with psychological disturbances.
 

[Ruhi_Rose]

Hey hadith-4-ever ..... got "amnesia"?  I'm a doctor with anti bukhari vaccines, I have the cure and prevention for your amnesia.  Most bukharites suffer from amnesia because they take an overdose of Bukhari's prescription of drinking camel urine.  That highly toxic matter affects the brain cells causing memory loss.  Stop drinking the stuff and instead take some of the nice things like orange juice or milk. 

[Zainab_M]

WOW no need to write a thesis Sister! I honestly cant be bothered to read all that, can you just show me how to Pray five times Salah only using Quranic Aya. I am suffering from amnesia......

 


TRUTH SCARES THE DEVIL!

I didn't know this would be such an easy & clean sweep!    till yesterday he was somewhat enthusiastic.  the guy suggested to me in his previous post to take up specific matters.  and that's just what I did.  It took me just a little while as it was really so simple.  But it struck poor hadith_4_ever with "amnesia"     

The Muhadith have worked to make sure that Hadith stay intact and not currupted, yes we are aware that many fabrications have taken place. However due to Isnad (Authentic Chains of Narration) the Muhadith have been able to say what is weak and what is Sahi.

hmmmm, this 'isnad' drama is the biggest fraud and the only lame duck excuse of the poor hadithers which is often decorated in different bombastic terms.   I'll post the link of this topic here as soon as I can.  Then, kindly take this topic there. 

Despite Hadith_4_ever being a dispassionate reader, I'll put before him as I promised, the hullabaloo surrounding "isnad" which isn't just a BIG LIE but also a very stupid one.


Ever thought of the fallibility of 'Isnad' ??

As most of us would know, 'Isnad' is the term given to the chain of narrators of every Hadith.  'Isnad' is  often known as the methodology or scientific compilation of Hadith.  In other words, it refers to the verification of the chain of narrators ('isnad') for authenticity.  If this chain of narrators is considered reliable by the 'ulema investigators,' then the hadith is recognized as 'authentic.'

In this regard I would like to begin by quoting two dynamic paragraphs from one of Muhammad Asadi's articles on the much talked about "scientific compilation" of Hadith or the "science of Hadith" as the 'hadith doctors' like to call it to make it sound splashy and thus dupe the naive faithfuls.

Quote --
"Hadith doctors have traditionally evaluated Hadith on its chain of narrators and its body text, according to their own criteria of what should be correct. However even according to their own standards, they fell into a dilemma. Some Hadith exist which have according to them a "sound" chain of narrators i.e. it was truthfully narrated but they dispute the text of the Hadith. One example of this and their whole system collapses. The Koran gives us the standard for judging anything that is presented. If the Koran confirms it in total its true. If the material adds to or contradicts the Koran, its source is not God or his messenger.

Hadith believing Muslims make big claims on the so-called scientific compilation of Hadith. Let it be clear however, that no matter how scientific you are in your compilation of what is "false" to start with, the compilation cannot make it true. Even the criteria that is presented are un-objective, i.e. the truthfulness of a particular narrator with a story of how truthful he was. To repeat, falsehood is not converted to truth by its scientific compilation.  The scientific method demands that "subjective" proof i.e. how truthful a person was be ignored and the item tested on objective criteria. What does the content say?"
Unquote --

To continue reading, CLICK

[Heba E. Husseyn]

TRUTH SCARES THE DEVIL!

Absolutely -  that's just it!

I didn't know this would be such an easy & clean sweep!    till yesterday he was somewhat enthusiastic.  the guy suggested to me in his previous post to take up specific matters.  and that's just what I did.  It took me just a little while as it was really so simple.  But it struck poor hadith_4_ever with "amnesia"     

lol, loool - actually he designed his own 'Waterloo.'  When he put that post with a long lecture, he was trying to test u.  He thought that like him, u too weren't an avid reader and wouldn't respond to it because from the perspective of his limited mind that commonplace "lecture" was the work of a genius.  When he saw your spot-on analysis on it, he got spooked.  That left him with no other choice but to cut and run 

[Ruhi_Rose]

'Truth scares the devil' is the most apt slogan for hadithers and other similar ones who indulge in shirk.  Concerning Hadith-4-Ever, he was scared to read sister's response because reading the truth makes hadithers aware of their guilt.  It makes them feel like a fool, yet stubbornness & ego prevents them from rejecting falsehood.  To avoid this state of confounded dilemma, they think it's best to be in denial of their transgression.  They don't want to think of the Hereafter.  It's just to scary for them cause they'd been deceiving themselves all along in this world. 

And on the day when the Hour riseth the guilty will vow that they did tarry but an hour - thus were they ever deceived. 30:55  Ar-Rum

[N. Truth Seeker]

lol, loool - actually he designed his own 'Waterloo.' .....

heeheheeee! "Waterloo" - I like the sound of that. 

Hadith_forever .... time for u to send your SOS messages to easy-talk like the Titanic's crew 

[Ruhi_Rose]

Hadith 4 Ever -  welcome on board!

Which one r u .... abul kalam, ambala boy or jund Islam or etc.? 

?????

it's ok ...... no need to be secretive.  unlike u guys, we welcome everyone.

[Heba E. Husseyn]

To: Hadith-4-Ever  (the runaway )[/b] [/font]

  with my promised response.  Sorry for the delay. [/b]

You know very well that there is not a word in the Quran that defines or even hints on the concept of 'Hadith' that Muslims follow today written by their imams.  Yet, you quote verses from the Quran and associate them with the writings of your imams when you are fully aware that Allah has given you no warrant to do such a thing.  In other words, you are manipulating the Quran to support the Hadith. 

On the other hand, there are many verses in the Glorious Quran that precisely and explicitly refute the contents of numerous Hadith narrations.  Most importantly, Allah has made it very clear that we must not follow any other guidance, lest we be parted from his way.  The Noble Quran has also made it totally clear that we must not follow suggestions or instructions on which we have no knowledge.

(O man), follow not that whereof thou hast no knowledge. Lo! the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these it will be asked. (Glorious Quraan 17:36)

And (He commandeth you, saying) : This is My straight path, so follow it  Follow not other ways, lest ye be parted from His way: This hath He ordained for you, that ye may ward off (evil)  (6:153)  Al-An’am   

Hadith maintains that Prophet predicted the future.  The following verses clearly refute that by flatly stating that the Prophet didnt know the future.  Prophet recited and said only that which was inspired in him by Allah.  Hadith, on the other hand, is full of Quranic contradictions.  Therefore we know that the Prophet never said them as he would never go against the Quran.  Thus, as Allah is asking you and your imams  "Will ye not then take thought ?  I have quoted just two verses that mention that neither the Prophet nor anyone else knows the future, except Allah.  There are many more verses that state this aspect.

Say (O Muhammad, to the disbelievers): I say not unto you (that) I possess the treasures of Allah, nor that I have knowledge of the Unseen; and I say not unto you: Lo! I am an angel. I follow only that which is inspired in me. Say: Are the blind man and the seer equal ? Will ye not then take thought ? 6:50

And with Him are the keys of the Invisible. None but He knoweth them. 6:59

Verse 3:164 given below is self-explanatory.  It is absolutely plain that the duty of the Prophet (pbuh) is to teach the contents of the Quran which is what we are required to follow.  As we can all clearly see, there is NO concept of following any narrations that may crop up in future.

Allah verily hath shown grace to the believers by sending unto them a messenger of their own who reciteth unto them His revelations, and causeth them to grow, and teacheth them the Scripture and wisdom; although before (he came to them) they were in flagrant error. 3:164

Though the direct reference to v.2:78 is toward the Jews and Christians, the Muslims are doing exactly the same thing today.  They've shut the Quran.  If they read it, they read it like a parrot without understanding a word of what they're reading, and they depend for guidance entirely upon their imams and 'saints' who take full advantage of their lack of Quranic knowledge and as a result of that, come up with all kinds of lies as 'laws' in the name of Hadith.

Among them are unlettered folk who know the Scripture not except from hearsay. They but guess.  2:78

Now, please read v.2:106 for a moment.  It says that when Allah abrogates a verse, He then brings another similar or better one in its place.  According to Hadith the punishment for adultery is stoning to death.  According to the Quran it's not death but lashes.  Then the Hadith has done another manipulation to overcome this contradiction but it hasn't worked.  Hadith has come up with an idea to dupe people saying only married persons are to be given death sentence while unmarried people who commit fornication are to receive lashes.  Again, it contradicts the Quran as the Quran makes no distinctions between married and unmarried people.  To refute this, the Hadith comes up with two outstanding LIES.  Some ulemas say that in the beginning the Quran did mention about stoning to death for everyone but that verse flew away with the wind and a goat ate up the leaf it was written upon.  While another group of ulemas say that that verse about stoning for adultery was revealed but later abrogated.  They have no evidence to back up this ridiculous claim.  Furthermore, the ulemas contradict themselves by saying this.  If they want to make it appear that the verse was abrogated, then why are they implementing it at all?  The meaning of the term 'abrogate' is to abolish formally.  Besides, in the Quran, Allah has given us a solid evidence to refute this claim.  As you can see from V.2:106, Allah says clearly states that if any verse is abrogated by Him, He brings a similar one or better one to replace it.  Since the ulemas claim that the verse on stoning for adultery was abrogated, in that case, where is that substitute verse in place of the one they claim has been abrogated?  Besides, the truth of the matter is that this law of stoning for adultery has been borrowed by hadith writers from the Bible.  There is a separate post on that in this board.  If you are interested to discuss that, it will be a pleasure for me to take it up and expose it.  But I know you won't.  You simply don't have the substance with which to protect what you uphold.  Nonetheless, please read V.2:106:

Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things ? 2:106

Hadith talks confidently about various Prophets interceding for people on the Day of Judgment.  This idea again has been rejected in the Quran in many Surahs.  No one will be allowed to intercede except those whom Allah grants permission to do so, and we do not know whom Allah may grant the permission to intercede.  Just to quote one verse in this regard, there are many more, V. 53:26

And how many angels are in the heavens whose intercession availeth naught save after Allah giveth leave to whom He chooseth and accepteth.  (53:26)

Allah tells the People of the Scripture (Jews & Christians) in the Quran not to exaggerate in religion, and not to go about saying things of their own will regarding religion except the truth.  The 'truth' refers to that information which has been stated by Allah in His original Divine Scripture.  But as we know, the Jews and Christians deviated completely from this truth by changing their original Divine Scriptures with man-made laws and writings.  Sadly enough, we Muslims are acting the same way through Hadith.  The Hadith has distracted Muslims from the Quran.  As a result of that, even though the Great Quran is 100% original with no changes at all, the Muslims have locked it up in their cupboards and keep consulting their imams and 'saints' for guidance.  Check verse 4:171.

O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth.  4:171

Allah plainly states in the Noble Quran that if we follow the desires of people and obey their orders or suggestions, it's highly likely that many of them will misguide us.  Thus, we do not need to be "scholars" to obtain guidance.  Guidance comes with the will of Allah, and Allah grants guidance not on the basis of diplomas from Islamic universities.  Instead, Allah grants guidance to whomsoever He considers worthy of it.  During the time of the Prophet (pbuh), there were many people residing in Makkah and Medina who came from rich families and had read a lot of books and attended educational institutions etc.  Yet, Allah chose Prophet Muhammad to whom He delivered His Message even though Allah has mentioned in the Quran that the Prophet was unlettered.  Yes, since the Prophet was unlettered, that makes the Quran even a greater miracle.  But Allah didn't chose an unlettered person to receive His revelations only for the purpose of making the Quran look a greater miracle.  The Quran would in any case be the greatest miracle of the world.  But Allah chose the Prophet Muhammad to receive His Message because even though the Prophet did not have any formal education in his life, he had an extraordinary character filled with sincerity, humility, honesty, compassion and rationality.  The Prophet's humility often made him reflect on his Creator even before Allah chose him as Prophet.  It was on the basis of these great virtues of the Prophet's heart and mind that Allah chose him.  Thus, Allah's guidance has nothing to do with going to Al-Azha university, spending thousands of dollars and hanging certificates on the walls.

If thou obeyedst most of those on earth they would mislead thee far from Allah's way. They follow naught but an opinion, and they do but guess. 6:116

Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah is Guidance, and we are ordered to surrender to the Lord of the Worlds,

Allah's standard of judgment and ethical values are very high.  There are no short-cuts for acquiring a righteous reputation in the Sight of Allah.  Allah knows what our hearts contain.  Simply acquiring the titles of an "ulema" and trumpeting oneself as an "Islamic Methodologst" may sound very impressive to the unperceiving mercenaries who have surrendered themselves to their ulemas, imams, priets and bishops.  But a Muslim as per the dictates of the Noble Quran MUST totally surrender his purpose to Allah alone and respect & love the Prophet Muhammad and all former prophets as directed in the Quran.  Therefore, if you hold your ulemas in high esteem with praises after praises  and carve a reputation of piety for them, that could be only a fantasy of this world because it's only Allah who knows the true intentions of peoples' hearts, on the basis of which He considers them worthy of reward or retribution.  And like I already said, this reward or retribution of Allah has nothing to do with the titles of "imams, ulemas or sheikhs."  There's no concept of a clergy in the Quran.  A long untrimmed beard and a long robe is NOT a licence to Paradise.  It's the quality of the heart & mind that determines one's destiny.  I'm not saying all imams and ulemas are unworthy.  Indeed some of them might be good people, just as there are good and bad people everywhere.  Allah Himself has stated this aspect in the best of words, Alhumdulilah.  Read below.

.... He is Best Aware of you (from the time) when He created you from the earth, and when ye were hidden in the bellies of your mothers. Therefor ascribe not purity unto yourselves. He is Best Aware of him who wardeth off (evil). 53:32

[Zainab_M]

Salaams to all

Sisters cAt and rose, and br. persian .. it was refreshing going through your precise and interesting comments.  All very well said.  And br. persian, your answer to hadith-4-forever's question on salaat in the Quran was excellent.  Thanks a billion 

To hadith-4-forever .. if you are interested in putting any more questions or further discussions, please start a new thread or browse thru the existing posts and put your comments.