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Refrences?

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Hadith_4_ever!
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« on: May 15, 2008, 12:44:35 pm »

Asslamualikum Oh Peopple who Hate Hadith. I have seen that the other thread has been locked Booo Hooo to the Admin. Anywho just to let you guys know iam not realy suffering from amnesia, although i do have a realy bad memory, but thanks for your concern anyways.

Ok back to discussion a number of you guys mad some BOLD (see what i did there) statements about Salah etc. for example Persion dude or whatever the name was talked about pre-Islamic arabia and the fact that people use to pray in the similar way. Ok please provide the refrence for what yur saying. And your link to another thread isnt enough. I want credible Islamic Sources.

Sister Zainab it seems your well versed in your ideas, so what you said about Isnad being lies etc please show me some refrences to your way of thinking. For example websites, books and articles.

Wow calling me the devil know are you......fantastic...good for you! Also just to let you guys know i did read Zainabs post.....but it was just a bunch of Malarki. no offence.

Hey Cat Powder or whatever what makes you think i have ran away? So what iam asking from you guys is refrence ans sources of your understanding. So far what i have seen is fancy writting and own understandings and perceptions that seem to be adopted from your elders or "scholras". What books articles can you provide from people who are credible and accepted by Most muslims? Coz i can tell you know that MOST if not ALL muslims accept the works of Bhikari and the Scholars that came after like Ibn Tayimiyah to Imam Ghalzali.

PS I use the word "Muslim" for a reason?


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Hadith_4_ever!
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008, 01:14:09 pm »

Also just as you guys take your time and ponder on how to respond to me, you might want to watch this youtube vid byShekh Salim Al Amry
on the statud of Sunnah in Islam.



Also the vid by Bilal Philips shows how Both Quraan and Sunnah are important to apply Shariah, unless you guys dont wish to live under Islam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBtwvOkdS88&feature=related
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2008, 07:27:18 pm »

Asslamualikum Oh Peopple who Hate Hadith. I have seen that the other thread has been locked Booo Hooo to the Admin. Anywho just to let you guys know iam not realy suffering from amnesia, although i do have a realy bad memory, but thanks for your concern anyways.

I'm glad you are around but mind your damn style of talkin.  But keep in mind, this isn't your home turf.  Have u forgotten what you did with sister zeynab's posts.  You deleted all of them.  You are darned lucky the same hasn't happened to u.  You are to hurl NO INSULTS ON THE QURAN AND NO INSULTS ON THE LAST MESSENGER BY SUPPORTING HADITHS THAT INSULT HIM (PBUH).  In you previous post, you derided the Quran.  You sarcastically stated about finding an ayat in the Quran on salaat and then put a laughing & kicking smiley against it.  Do that again and u r out, u degraded rogue.

Yes that thread is locked because it was a general topic that's been wrapt. We go topic-wise here.  Moreover, you refused to respond anyway saying you couldn't be "bothered."  So locking it or otherwise needn't matter to u.  You'd washed your hands off it anyway.  This thread is also being carefully monitored.  It doesn't have much of a theme or central topic anyway.  That's because you neither have the brain to find a central topic nor to organize your discussion.  You are here to quarrel, which is so common with your lot with a few lousy copuy & paste lectures or youtube videos.  Whenever relevant are presented you take off with "amnesia."  We won't tarnish our standards with disbelieving freaks like you wondering around.  If abul kalam warned zeynab to find another forum, you'll have to do the same unless you don't bring up proper substance in your posts, which means you writings must be based on your own perception.  WE DO NOT RECOGNIZE BUKHARI & CO. AND WE DO NOT CONSIDER IMAMS AND ULEMAS AS ANY FINAL AUTHORITY FOR ANY MATTER. 

   
Ok back to discussion a number of you guys mad some BOLD (see what i did there) statements about Salah etc. for example Persion dude or whatever the name was talked about pre-Islamic arabia and the fact that people use to pray in the similar way. Ok please provide the refrence for what yur saying. And your link to another thread isnt enough. I want credible Islamic Sources.


How many more times must it be said to u before it gets thru your thick head that the reference is the Quran.  We don't accept any other references except the Quran.  If this vital concept isn't getting shoved into that head of yours, just leave it alone instead of repeating the same old arguments over and over again.  We do not recognize Hadith and scholars.  THE REFERENCE COMES FROM THE QURAN AND HOW WE UNDERSTAND THE DIVINE WORDS OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY.  Any decent person who has read the Quran with devotion and love for Allah will know that Allah wants everyone to read the Quran for themselves in order to acquire guidance.  We are NOT approach the Quran thru a via media aka imams. 

Sister Zainab it seems your well versed in your ideas, so what you said about Isnad being lies etc please show me some refrences to your way of thinking. For example websites, books and articles.

The answer is the same as above.  If sister zeynab or br. Asadi or me or anyone else perceive that the isnad is fraudulent scheme with more holes in it than a golf course, itwill be exposed and thrown into the garbage.  If it angers the hadithers, they'll simply have to live with that anger just as we have to suffer watching their deceipt. 

.....  Also just to let you guys know i did read Zainabs post.....

No you didn't.  and even if u did it's as good as not reading them becoz you got "amnesia" and her posts aren't for ones with such a disease.  And amnesia u sure do have, shokran for that only piece of truth.

but it was just a bunch of Malarki. no offence.

Nope again, becoz it's a compliment.  On the contrary, if a mug like you appreciates anything, its substance would become questionable. 

Hey Cat Powder or whatever what makes you think i have ran away? So what iam asking from you guys is refrence ans sources of your understanding. So far what i have seen is fancy writting and own understandings and perceptions that seem to be adopted from your elders or "scholras". What books articles can you provide from people who are credible and accepted by Most muslims? Coz i can tell you know that MOST if not ALL muslims accept the works of Bhikari and the Scholars that came after like Ibn Tayimiyah to Imam Ghalzali.

O ya celebrity goon!  For the impteenth time, here at MV we go according to the information in the Quran and our rational perception.  Our references, much after the Quran, is entertaining the writings of others who have also caught the guile of Hadith.  It only shows that your 'compliment' about sister zeynab's posts can improve.  You haven't even read her posts otherwise you'd know how many other works are included here of persons who've nabbed the Hadith thieves like us.  Check the other hadith nabbers and then proceed with your insults.  That would sound a lot more pleasing to us.  But o! when it comes to reading, u get "amnesia"

PS I use the word "Muslim" for a reason?

No one cares for your "reason".  After reading the kind of things you've said and the gestures you've shown, you can't even be looked upon as a Muslim in the first place.  Your are a Bukharite christian.  Bukhari's Hadith and all Hadith for that matter has its basic root in the Old & New Testaments.  "Reference"?  Is that's what's itching your lying tongue?  This time the reference is the kufarri that Bukhari has written in his hadiths -- stoning for adultery, return of mahdi, drinking urine, buring peoples' homes if they don't go for fajr salaat, defaming the Prophet by saying he (pbuh) married Aishah (ra) against the wishes of her father and so much more.  If you've read all the posts here you'll also know where to find these original hadiths and their particulars.  Hadith, Bible and Torah ---- all the same thing.  You are a follower of Sahih-al-Bukhari, i mean Sahih-al-Bible.  No wonder you didn't know the method of salaat.  Your method of salaat must be by kneeling on your knees with your hands clasped. 
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2008, 08:06:23 pm »

Also just as you guys take your time and ponder on how to respond to me, you might want to watch this youtube vid byShekh Salim Al Amry
on the statud of Sunnah in Islam.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBtwvOkdS88&feature=related


Thank you.  I've heard and watched such kind of lectures more than the number of times you've eaten dinner.  I don't care what bilal philips says or salim al-amry says.  they don't have to answer for me and I don't have to answer for them.  just as they've been given a perception which they are using as per the rules of their conscience, so am I.  Al-amry jumpped straight into the constructed "sunnah" - a brainchild of his cronies.  bilal philips, with whom I'm well acquainted, starts with the Quran but then falls miserably saying that after finding an issue in the Quran we must go for clarification to "sunnah" which is another way of saying that we must go for clarification to the mess  of the arrogant sheikhs. 

Thanks again baba - unto you your religion, unto me my religion

"Lakum din ukum waliya deen." 



unless you guys dont wish to live under Islam.

Much to your disappointment we're firmly planted under the gracious umbrella of Islam (which is the original Islam, not the innovated one) and will never budge, no matter how much the hadithers and their friends harass us. Therefore your missionary preaching is futile and a waste of your own time.  I know Bukharites and Christians are very intrusive and pushy when it comes to preaching their faith.  But we, Muslims, arent' like that because Allah says "there's no compulsion in religion."  So, as long as some non-Muslim leaves us alone and doesn't force us to embrace their kufaari, it's ok with us.  Thus, watch your steps and don't be pushy.  If u r to stay here, u have to accept us the way we are, just as we've accepted you the way u are.  Your posts can reflect your thoughts by all means but must sound amicable with no personal motives.  If you wanna post youtube videos, do so by all means.  But no pointing fingers on any of our members with indignant comments.  Otherwise, what goes around comes around.   
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2008, 08:26:38 pm »

Oi Baba Hadither - no one here is interested in your sahih al-Bible preachings.  take it somewhere else unless u have plenty of time to waste.
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2008, 08:31:35 pm »

Cat Powder...are you done with the insults?  offtem jeeeeeeeeez talk about off-topic!!

So basicaly your saying "no" you dont have no intelectual backing, as in people of knowledge and understanding of the Deen? i thought as much. By the way, i know the Holy Quraan is the mother of all refrences and Allah SWT knows that i have not done it justice and may Allah Azza Wa Jal forgive me. But come one guys are you gonna tell me that you read the Quraan in the english translation and thats it (you do know that doing tafseer in Arabic is a very important task if someone wishes to grasp the deeper meaning of the Quraan). The Messenger SWAS was sent to explain to mankind the best method of living and attaining salvation through submitting everything to all mighty Allah. Surely it wasnt just for the sahaba who witnessed this demonstration by being with him. What are we supposed to do? The ones who dont have the Prophet SWAS to show us the way, surely it was in Allah's plan that he also preserve the Hadith through the revivers of this Ummah?

You call me Kaffir......then i gues most of the Muslims are Kaffir according to your understanding. i dont know a single Muslim that rejects the hadith....and i know for sure throughout the Muslim world your kind are few! Khair my readings of this forum is done, if you cant provide me with refrences and backings then i wont post anymore.


PS. Zainab..what a lively and forum you have..with so many members.

Soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch, narrating a hadeeth from me, and he will say, 'Between us and you is the Book of Allaah: what it says is halaal, we take as halaal, and what it says is haraam, we take as haraam.' But listen! Whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids."
(Al-Fath al-Kabeer, 3/438. Al-Tirmidhi reported it with different wording, and said that it is hasan saheeh. Sunan al-Tirmidhi bi Sharh Ibn al-'Arabi, al-Saawi edn., 10/132)


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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2008, 10:44:25 pm »

Cat Powder...are you done with the insults?  

Yep I am, unless u start again which you've graciously adhered to since comin here.  What goes around comes around.  i already stated that .. unless your amnesia stricken head couldn't follow it.  Most importantly, no one can beat the despicably obstructive spirit displayed  by Easy-talk to one of us.   Hence, do not pelt stones at others when you're yourself living in the flimsiest of glass houses.

Besides - do not conceal greater facts.  Some of my "insults" weren't insults in the actual sense of the term.   Rather, they were terse reprimands in response to your insults toward the Noble Quran.  That isn't "off topic" .... it's the most important pre-condition of our forum rules.


So basicaly your saying "no" you dont have no intelectual backing, as in people of knowledge and understanding of the Deen?

Wrong -- i am saying that i use my perception with which I reflect, and I use my conscience with which I pick my values with my guide & reference as the Noble Quran constantly by my side.  I know that won't be looked upon as "intellectual" by persons with your mindset for a number of reasons.  First, you have your own ideas of intellectualism that's linked with iconic titles and the 'charisma' they create in your eyes, an idea that starkly differs from mine.  Second, in matters of spiritual & practical ethics, earthly academic intellectualism plays an insignificant role. The important factor is intent, not intellect.  Moreover, 'intellectualism' by itself is ultimately a subjective issue i.e. our earthly declaration of bestowing the knighhood of intellectualism on someone is no guarantee that Allah Almighty also considers the same.  Every human being has an intricate 'inside story' to their lives, and no one but Allah knows this story in its entirety, on the basis of which He makes His decisions.  And such decisions of Allah are not subject to an "intellectual's" diploma from Al-Azha university.  That ought to be clear to every discerning mind. 

But come one guys are you gonna tell me that you read the Quraan in the english translation and thats it (you do know that doing tafseer in Arabic is a very important task if someone wishes to grasp the deeper meaning of the Quraan).

Of course i know the importance.  What makes u presume that I don't explore all areas of the Quran (particularly the original Arabic) to grasp its deeper meanings?  I've given so much of my life to grasping the deeper meanings of the Quran, and u r telling me now about its importance?  Besides, this statement of yours is totally off topic.  We don't have to discuss our methods of study of the Quran with each other.  However, what's highly important to keep in mind and one of the core issues me and my colleagues have tried to convey is that there's no final authority as far as explaining the verses of the Quran are concerned.   Whether we explore the Arabic tafsirs or simply depend on translations, at the end of the day no one can claim to say that their interpretation is the most correct and prevent others from following their own interpretations, if they so desire.  Again, I realise that this will leave hadithers like yourself open-mouthed with shock because your sheikhs have taught you that they can never be wrong.  This is the major intersection where we differ with you guys.  From my experience, sheikhs and imams are humans like anyone else.  They can err just like anyone else.  And the huge clutter of extra-Quranic literature piled up by the clergy, all exercising their own whims, leaves their institution blemished and scarred.  Therefor, I do not trust them.  And since I do not find anything complicatd in my Faith, I feel I am much better off following my Faith on my own.  If I need help, I know where to find it.  The kind of help I need may not necessarily be available with the imams.  As for those fixated on the imams, I disagree with them, but I don't disrespect them unless they start disrespecting me.  I guess that's as fair as the human mind can be. 

The Messenger SWAS was sent to explain to mankind the best method of living and attaining salvation through submitting everything to all mighty Allah. Surely it wasnt just for the sahaba who witnessed this demonstration by being with him. What are we supposed to do? The ones who dont have the Prophet SWAS to show us the way, surely it was in Allah's plan that he also preserve the Hadith through the revivers of this Ummah?

I've read previously since the last 2 or 3 days that this point has been explained to you by sister zeynab several times.  I don't know why u keep repeating the points over and over.  Jokes apart, u do really have amnesia brotha.  More likely, u simply haven't bothered to read .. which u also acknowledged. 

Despite a crunch in my schedule tonite, I'll re-cap this aspect quickly.  During the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh), he did demonstrate the Quran practically to the people of his (pbuh) community.  Around 632 AD or approx. 10th year of the Hijrah, the beloved Prophet passed away.  However, what he left behind intact protected by Allah Almighty Himself was and is the Quran, no other writings.  In the absense of the Prophet we are to follow the Quran, not the imams and their "references" you keep repeating like a broken record.


You call me Kaffir......then i gues most of the Muslims are Kaffir according to your understanding. i dont know a single Muslim that rejects the hadith....and i know for sure throughout the Muslim world your kind are few! 

Well yes, that's very correct.  By definition, there are a lot of kufaar traits in today's mainstream Muslims.  Human nature is by and large a lot more attracted to their own cooked up concepts that suits their purpose than the Divine Laws as laid down by Allah.  So, Allah says in the Quran that each time a Prophet came to the people saying what they didn't wish to hear, they either disobeyed them or killed them.  Though no more prophets/messengers are going to come, the mentality of the common people is still the same while interacting with each other.  They prefer following falsehood and prefer following the majority, even if that majority is following the road the lies.  Recognition of haqq from baatil is not an intrinsic factor in the vast majority of minds.  They just want to turn to their fellow human beings, not Allah.  If anyone asks me if this is kufaari --- I would say YES.  Bowing before idols is just one form of kufaari and the biggest one -- other than this, there are many smaller and more discreet methods of kufari as well.  Idolaters are the 'senior' kufars.  Many others who claim to profess the Divine Faith are actually embracing their own embodient of faith, not the Divine One.  This includes the Hadithers.  Thus, these are all the 'junior' kufars.  But be it senior or junior, kufari is kufari.  Every bit of it has to be avoided in order to acquire a good report in the Hereafter.  That goes without saying.  Unfortunately, by far the majority of 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world are scattered into the junior group - best identified as the Hadithers & fatwa seekers, the Ismaili group, the Qadiyani group, the R. Khalifa group and the Free Minders.  There could be more.  All these groups a strikingly common factors.  They all study the Quran selectively, they reject the Supreme Power of Allah by putting the Quran side by side with man-made laws, they either reject Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the final Messesnger or simply invent insulting lies about him (pbuh) through the writings of the imams and insist upon preserving these lies.  Not by any stretch of the imagination are such factors compatible with Quranic values.  Such factors are serious violations.  Youtube videos with sheikhs lecturing in their shinning robes does not lessen the gravity of these violations.

It's the same with Christians.  Majority of them all around the world believe that Jesus (son of Mary) to be the son of God (Astaghfar'Allah).  There would be just a few handful of Christians (probably of different sects) who might realise the enormity of the sin which this belief carries.  They are the ones who are right and they wouldn't be more than just a few thousands in number around the global -- just like majority of Muslims are not confident with the Quran by itself unless they don't keep it side by side with their own man-made laws.  Those who realise the enormity of such an act are indeed very few.  I and my colleague are one of those few. 

I guess this would explain to u why we have a forum that's lively and lovely to some, but "lively" to the larger rowdy crowd.  We are glad to be where we are.  Alhumdulilah.  And we know how much many of our guests appreciate us.  If we ask for more, we'll only be expressing our ingratitude toward Allah -- and by Allah, we adore Him and we are not ingrates.  The purpose of this forum is to put the Truth on the table so it's there for the world to see.  We're not interested in all that hangama with a 1,000 hillybilly members loitering around, posting hypocritical nonsense and admiring the lice-filled straggly beards of "ulemas."   We're Allah-fearing people with family responsibilities who neither have the inclination nor the time to indulge in such matters.  Our goal is simply our quest for Truth.

But aren't you lucky?  despite our forum being a "lively" one, you were floored.  What if it was not "lively" ... in that case we would have to mail a one ton consignment of kleenex tissues to Easy Talk.


Khair my readings of this forum is done, if you cant provide me with refrences and backings then i wont post anymore.

aray yaar, who asked to come here in the first place that u r now making this sob-sob proclaimation that u r "done."   Suit yourself by all means.  I realize how difficult it has been for you these past couple a days.  In any case, you have not had the guts nor the substance to take up those insulting hadiths of Bukhari & Co. posted here where they've insulted the Prophet (pbuh) and contradicted the Quran.  Though this is a Hadith Board, you've only hurled insults at us and then rightly got the crap thrown back on your face teethsmile  But you never touched on Bukhari's shocking mischief.  We've clashed with so many hadithers who've just kept asking for "references" and "methods of salat in Quran" despite knowing that Quran is our Reference, and despite them agreeing reluctantly that Quran is the most Central Reference.  Eventually, they all 'left their shoes' and vamoosed.  You are just another one in that long list.  I'm so used to it that now these Mars attacks of poor confounded hadithers are like a cup of tea and an amusing pastime  However, I must say, it seems pathetic to watch the weak and limited strategy of these hadither debaters .. but most amazing of all, they all sing that same ghissa pitta cranky tune that's so thoroughly insufficient and filled with holes.  Also tell those 2 of your other companions that they might as well be done with Muslim Villa.  The trick didn't work.  Our iman is too solid to get swayed by online trolls, bots and elves.   Fi Aman'Allah to all 3 of you from me and MV  gdbi

But listen! Whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids.

Nope .. you again twisted it the other way round. 

The right sequence would be:  

Whatever Allah forbids is what the Messenger forbids because the Messenger does NOT speak of his own accord.  The Messenger only says what is inspired in him by Allah. 

Thus, acceptance of the Prophet's (pbuh) instruction is strictly dependent upon its compliance with the Message of Allah.  The Prophet in his lifetime made this aspect ample clear.  It's Bukhari and his gang who have reversed it with purely selfish motives to promote the acceptance of their writings which they've falsely attributed to the Prophet (pbuh).

Not to mention, we've gone over this issue scores of times in just 2 days.   


SECRET MISSION UNACCOMPLISHED FOR EASY-TALK FORUM    Thumbsdwn

 wsalam
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008, 12:38:34 am »

Ibn Tayyimah is probably even more detestable than Bukhari.  he upholds those brutal hardline salaf values that virtually joins with the zealotry of the pagans.  lunatics like bin Laden are said to be fans of Ibn Tayyimah.

Ibn Khaldun was one of the few rational and civilzied persons.  To quote him from an excerpt of the book The life of Muhammad- Haykal, Ibn Khaldun wrote: “I do not believe any hadith or report of a companion of the prophet to be true which differs from the common sense meaning of the Quran, no matter how trustworthy the narrators may have been. It is not impossible that a narrator appears to be trustworthy though he may be moved by ulterior motive. If hadiths were criticized for their textual contents as they were for the narrators who transmitted them, a great number would have been rejected. It is a recognized principle that a hadith could be declared spurious if it departs from the common sense meaning of the Quran from the recognized principles of Shariah, the rules of Logic, the evidence of sense, or any other self-evident truth.”

Another excerpt from the same source says that 'Al-Nawawi who had written a commentary on the collections of Muslim bin Hajaj wrote: "A number of scholars discovered many ahadith in the collections of Muslim and Bukhari which do not fulfill the conditions of verification assumed by these men." '   This is a polite way of acknowledging the evil acts of these hadith writers.

Anyhow, Hadithu_forever a.k.a. "references" ...... buzz off by all means  hiyaaa  drink less camel urine and more of fruit juices.  That will help your amnesia.  trust me. 



P.S. Sister cAt - your rejoinders are thoroughly illuminating.  but such a response to a hadither is like giving books to a ...... never mind  Cool   However, there are plenty of readers waiting to benefit from it just as so many have benefitted already. 
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2008, 01:09:01 am »

P.S. Sister cAt - your rejoinders are thoroughly illuminating.  but such a response to a hadither is like giving books to a ...... never mind  Cool   However, there are plenty of readers waiting to benefit from it just as so many have benefitted already. 

Thanks sis, I appreciate that ....

And yeah, that quote form Ibn Khaldun is right on. 

Ibn Tayyimah is a monster.



Anyhow, Hadithu_forever a.k.a. "references" ...... buzz off by all means  hiyaaa  drink less camel urine and more of fruit juices.  That will help your amnesia.  trust me.

lol!  and u know, this hadith where Bukhari offers camel urine as a drink, the idea comes partly from the altered Bible and partly from pagans like the hindus who drink cow urine.  Here's what the altered Bible says about drinking urine.

"If you believe in me, you will never thirst... Rivers of living water shall flow from your bellies.." - Jesus (in John 7:38)

"Drink water from thy own cistern" (Proverb 5-15).

Of course, Prophet Jesus (son of Mary) never said these things.  Jesus son of Mary was a wise and intelligent messenger of Allah.  he would never talk like this.  These Biblical narrations are identical to Hadith.  Just as Bukhari has done the shaitani of writing those bad hadiths, similarly the christian clergy and their so-called saints have written nonsense like these.

Bukhari the crook has drafted the counterpart of these altered Bible narrations which says:

Anas reported:  "Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukl came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and swore allegiance to him on Islam, but found the climate of that land uncogenial to their health and thus they became sick, and they made complaint of that to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: Why don't you go to (the fold) of our camels along with our shepherd, and make use of their milk and urine. They said: Yes. They set out and drank their (camels') milk and urine and regained their health...."

Hadith_forever!  when guests come to your house, what do u offer them - coffee, tea or pee?
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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2008, 01:26:55 am »

... and now he's gonna change the subject and crack some drab joke about not being able to read a long post 


 viictery
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2008, 09:19:36 pm »

Moreover, Hadith_4_ever  ...... what's the reference that authorizes the acceptance of your "references" ?   The contents of the Quraan evidently do not authorize your "references" and therefore, the Rasool would never either. 

A set of some of our many references and the gross misunderstanding of the idea of "references" by Hadithers have been posted in a separate thread HERE.
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2008, 11:07:41 pm »

Hadith-forever addressed me in the first post of this thread, refuting my claim that he hasn't run away.  As usual, he was wrong yet again. 

Sister zeynab, you've put a great post on references thru this link. 
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