Message #3956

[Zainab_M]

Peace dear sister Zeynab,
Another point is that I personally dont feel Prophet Yusuf's story is a very good argument precisely because of the reason you identified.

Salaams and peace br. Ace.  Many thanks for your appreciation of this piece. 

Regarding your above statement, first of all .. those aren't my views to be precise.  I quoted a brother from geocities Islamic discussion site.  But I think you've misunderstood something somewhere.  This brother had mentioned the incident of the life of Prophet Yusuf (pbuh) to highlight the possible connection of 'yad' (plural = aydiyahuma) as "resources."  As per his perception, he probably considers the concept of severing of 'resources' as the thief being put into the custody of the person who's property he stole.  While I cannot confirm that V.5:38 refers to such a punishment for a thief, I cannot rule it out either.

Summarizing the topic, the total interpretations include :

1) The literal meaning of cutting the hand

2) The concept of 'yad' interpreted as cutting off the thief's 'resources'
The term 'resource' has again been sub-interpreted into 2 concepts --
a) Imprisonment.
b) Putting the convicted thief in the custody of the person from whom he stole so that he can work for him and compensate him.

3) Marking the hand / hands of a thief. 

As I already mentioned in my post, history gives no evidence of the existence of prisons in 7th century Arabia.  It's possible that prisons didn't exist in this part of the world when the Quraan was revealed.  That could probably be because of the existance of slavery, which of course was rampant around the world at the time.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, the Quraan too does not make any references to imprisonment in any of the Surahs .. not to my knowledge.  While Allah knows best, the reason could be the existance of slavery.  The Noble Quraan introduced the concept of gradually abolishing slavery.  Introduction of prisons in that era could be misinterpreted by the people as a hindrance to abolishing slavery.  Anyhow, considering that there's no concept of imprisonment in the Quraan, I would think that the term "resource" derived from V.5:38 could better be connected as shown in Surah Yusuf quoted by the brother in geocities site. 

Again, as already stated in my post, as per my opinion this matter has to be kept open.  We can interpret to the best of our conscience but final explanation is known to Allah alone.

The Verse 2:187 you quoted does not, in my view, do anything to prove what you were trying to prove (that God always specifies it when he is changing something), unless I am overlooking something. And I think you quoted 6:18 on the other side of the argument...

I don't quite follow you here brother and how this is connected to anything I stated here or elsewhere. 

What I've made very clear in this post is that the interpretation of 5:38 remains open to the individual human mind or society, as to whatever they consider most apt.  Only Allah has the final explanation.  Personally I think, forgiveness would be right.  But if the offender persists in his dangerous offence, the safety & security of the community becomes the first priority.  Thus, stiffer measures can be taken as per one's individual interpretation depending on the social circumstances in accordance with justice.  I repeat, Allah is the Final Judge and Knower.

Thus, we make our own choices (a quality given to us by Allah to use our own discretion) and Allah makes the final judgment.

in which case you're right, 6:18 proves that Allah can specify new and different things in different Sciptures.

Verses 6:18 and 2:187 are quoted below.  I'd appreciate if you give the link of that post where I quoted these verses for any topic under discussion.  I cannot recall when or why I quoted these verses or how these are linked with any of my recent discussions.

6:18/19 - Al-Anam
18. He is the Omnipotent over His slaves, and He is the Wise, the Knower.
19. Say (O Muhammad): What thing is of most weight in testimony ? Say: Allah is Witness between me and you. And this Qur'an hath been inspired in me, that I may warn therewith you and whomsoever it may reach. Do ye in sooth bear witness that there are gods beside Allah ? Say: I bear no such witness. Say: He is only One God. Lo! I am innocent of that which ye associate (with Him).

2:187 - Al-Baqrah
It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is Aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall and touch them not, but be at your devotions in the mosques. These are the limits imposed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth His revelation to mankind that they may ward off (evil).