Message #13572

[Heba E. Husseyn]

I really wonder how many hadiths are the actual sayings of the prophet and thus totally compatible with the Qur'an. BTW, I know an Islamic scholar and while he is very enlightened compared to traditional scholars, he strongly defends hadiths that don't contradict the Qur'an and logic.

Authenticity-wise not more than 10% are the sayings are of the Prophet.  This means that if the Prophet had seen this 10%, he might have agreed with their contents.  But even this 10% are by no means the words of the Prophet.  There is absolutely no evidence that the Prophet said them in those words.  It stands to reason.  The official culture of hadith began more than 150 years after the death of the Prophet when they began being edited, re-edited and compiled.  Some were taken from the haphazard lies written and abandoned by the early Ummayad courtiers like Abu Huraira etc.  Some were new misquotes during from the time of Umer bin Abdel Aziz, the Ummayad.  Several more lies were constructed during the period of the Abbasids.  Many were the brainchild of the compilers.  So we can be darn sure that not one word in any hadith is the quote of the Prophet including those few hadiths that may sound comparatively decent.  

If a hadith is not compatible with the Quran, it should be trashed right away.  If a hadith is compatible with the Quran, then in any case the Quran is already there for reference and implementation.  So why hang on to an extra-Quranic piece when we can find the same answer in the Quran?  

Moreover, all ahadith have the same controversial source.  We can't just pick the good ones and slip the bad ones under the carpet.  This is not the way truth is supposed to present itself for guidance.  Even if a few ahadith are found unauthentic or absurd in the entire set of all collections, it would be enough to shake our trust.   If something is based on truth with a clean intent, then there ought to be no cracks anywhere.  Of course we cannot say this about hadith , can we?   A few good sayings from the Hadith cannot cover up for all the bad ones.

Lately I've been very frustrated because he is talking with so much respect about all previous 'ulema' such as Gazali and even Jalaluddin al Rumi, who for example claims that his rubbish called "Mesnevi" is better than the Qur'an !!!
Did you even know that?

This leaves me stunned.  I honestly never knew of it.  Like I said I'm no fan of Rumi.  But I know some friends who appear mesmerized if you mention the name "rumi."  I would appreciate if you put up some more information on this so I can tell them about it.  

He says we reject those parts of Rumi's writings which btw also contain disgusting pornographic passages (I'm not exaggerating, on the contrary it's even worse than you could imagine), but Rumi is still one of our "greatest assets".

I'm not surprised.  Our ulemas have gone absolutely amock amidst their madness of double standards and total loss of ethics.  It's the same attitude many of them have for glorifying Abu Huraira and his colleagues who have flatly narrated stuff that violate every principle of the Quran.  Instead of trashing their rubbish, the ulemas and tafsir writers have twisted the Quranic commentaries to make them compatible with those bad hadiths.  That's the depth of their sinfulness.

How on earth can you call a mushrik one of the ummah's greatest assets? Anyway, for this reason I have decided to devote most of my time to the Qur'an and I refuse to believe anything anyone says from now on. I'm really fed up with everyone, I no longer have "favourite" Islamic scholars. They only lead you astray!

I agree with you 110% brother Ozcan.  We here have given up on "scholars" several years ago.  There's just one man we know who talks some bit of sense, from whatever we've read of his works.  His name is Louay Fatoohi.  Do you know of him?  If so, do give us some feedback, in case we're mistaken.  His website is http://www.quranicstudies.com/
All his articles are on the Quran.  I've never read any Hadith praises from him.  However, he is wary about criticizing hadith openly for fear of a fallout with the rest of the ulema society.

Oh, just wondering; Are Rumi, Ibn Arabi and similar mushriks popular in Pakistan and other countries as well? In Turkey people get really mad when you dare criticize these people because they are almost regarded as prophets by a large section of the population. I can easily say that there are millions of mushriks in my country who think they are Muslim....

I think sister Zeynab or Ruhi would know better on this man's status in Pakistan.  I've lived there for a comparatively shorter period.  But during my stay I didn't see too much craze about Rumi and certainly not to the extent of making him 'holy' or feeling offended if he's criticized.