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On inheritance rights of women


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Ruhi_Rose
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« on: March 14, 2009, 08:43:33 pm »



We watched today a brief lecture on the rights of women concerning inheritance.   I think the speaker was Mr. Tareq Ramadan.  The question was how to interpret the law that sons are to get twice the share of daughters.  The perspective of the explanation was compatible with the Quran and rational.

Sons get twice the share because they are supposed to handle twice the responsibilities.  Whatever a daughter inherits, much or little by half her share, is entirely her own to be used by her for her pocket expenses only.  She is not required to spend that on any necessities.  She is not required to pay rent from that money, nor to pay any bills, nor to spend it to buy food, clothes or medicines for herself.  All these are the necessities of life and must be taken care of by her father, brother or brothers or husband or whoever is her male guardian.  Similarly, even if a woman works, she is not obligated to spend that money for the support of her family unless she decides to do that of her own free will.  All that are the responsibility of males.  Thus, when a son inherits money, it has plenty of strings attached to it.  First of all, he acquires the right to obtain more than his sister or sisters because he is expected to share all family responsibilities and burdens that come along when parents grow old, without pressuring the sister or sisters.  Secondly, the son is responsible for providing dowry for his own marriage.  As per Quranic Law, dowry must be the responsibility of the man, NOT the woman, as practiced in pagan cultures.  After his marriage, his responsibilities become twofold.  He is responsible for providing to his old parents and younger siblings who might be dependent on him and also his wife and children.   One can imagine the moral work description of a son that's much heavier than that of a daughter which is the reason he is allowed to acquire twice the inheritance share.

However, the lecture also took up the increasingly common problem faced in many Muslim families at present where the sons have ceased to be dutiful, throwing all responsibilities on their sisters, while they move on with their lives outside their homes.  And yet, at the time of their parents' death when it's time to divide the inheritance, they jump in expecting to grab the larger share.  That's trying to get the cake and eating it too.  By such an attitude, men like these neither show obedience towards the Quran nor towards their families.  In many such cases, the sisters who've worked hard for their families all their lives often sacrificing much, end up getting a small share from which they have to support themselves because their brothers, after collecting their large shares, return to their own lives being least bothered about whatever may happen to their sisters.  It is because of such misuse of a wise and rational law that many women have suffered much and many lazy and selfish men have thrived. 

In this regard, the lecture stated that Muslim countries must make some official laws to protect such women.  There should be generous allowances, social benefits and heavy tax-cuts for single women left to fend for themselves by selfish male siblings so that their monetary needs are fully met. 

Unfortunately no Muslim country has thought for a plan as simple and vital as this in order to tackle the disobedience of many men towards the Quran.

In my personal opinion, such men must also be answerable before the legal court while acquiring their inheritance as to what extent can they claim to be the rightful inheritors apart from just the biological relationships.     


Related post:
Quranic Law of Inheritance



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Zeynab
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2009, 10:18:11 pm »



Very important issue.  I'm glad it's been explained and clarified very well.    Usually this aspect pretty much bounds the hands of a wise person.  Though they have the right answers, they cannot bring it forth because of the burden of defending man-made laws in the name of 'Islam' that have become so much a part of all traditions .... identical to orthodox Christianity and Judaism after they drifted far away from the original dictates of Allah Almighty. 

Dr. Tarek Ramadan on women's inheritance of rights when asked in an interview:
 
Q How flexible can broader aspects of Shari'a be? Should women, for example, be able to inherit the same as men?

A The Qoranic texts are quite clear as to inheritance and once again it is related to a global understanding of family and the respective roles of women and men. To implement these rules literally today without taking into account social realities is plain injustice. Some mothers find themselves alone with five or six kids to look after, the husbands have left, and nobody is helping them get the inheritance they should be entitled to. We need a holistic approach and the state must think of financial support and compensation for the women. Without such procedures it means that we are betraying the teachings of Islam through a literalist implementation. It is plain injustice and has nothing to do with the objectives of the Shari'a I have mentioned.


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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2009, 12:23:42 am »


Very true that Muslim men are misinterpreting this law greatly.   That was very well paraphrased Sister Rose.

And thanks for the Prospect Magazine interview Sister Zeynab. 

Thanks for this very nice discussion.

Salam.
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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 08:36:55 pm »



This thread has been very well articulated with very appropriate and truthful clarifications. 

Dr. Ramadan has also been asked questions on homosexuality and how Islam views this problem which he handled intelligently.

This appeared in the Globe & Mail.   Alexander Macdonald from Vancouver wrote: "With growing acceptance of homosexuality in the West, is it possible for Muslims to remain faithful and accept gays? What about gay Muslims?"

Dr. Ramadan's response:
"The Islamic teaching as a whole, as do all the monotheistic religions, prohibits homosexuality and does not promote it. It is perceived as against the Divine project for human beings. Now it must be clear that Muslims cannot condemn the people with no understanding: It is important for Muslims to be able to say "I disagree with what you are doing and respect who you are." This is the way towards mutual tolerance and this is the way Muslims should act in their daily life. To be a gay does not prevent someone from being a Muslim: I know Muslims who are gay. Some are deeply suffering, others are doubting themselves and others are claiming their right to be so. It is important, once again not to condemn the beings while we may disapprove the behaviour or the acts. This is the way to respect each other, to remain both open and faithful to one’s belief."

Another question someone asked in a
blog
I happened to come across while browsing that read: "Could you imagine there ever being a homosexual imam in the same way that the Anglican church in the US has just consecrated a homosexual bishop? Would that be possible?"

Dr. Ramadan's response:
"It could happen if such an imam did not declare that he was homosexual. You cannot expect to see homosexuality being promoted within the Islamic tradition. Homosexuality is not perceived by Islam as the divine project for men and women. It is regarded as bad and wrong. Now, the way we have to deal with a homosexual is to say: "I don't agree with what you are doing, but I respect who you are. You can be a Muslim. You are a Muslim. Being a Muslim is between you and God." I am not going to promote homosexuality but I will respect the person, even if I don't agree with what they are doing."


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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2011, 05:06:50 pm »

"You can be a Muslim. You are a Muslim. Being a Muslim is between you and God."

Great response.
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“Truth always rests with the minority, and the minority is always stronger than the majority, because the minority is generally formed by those who really have an opinion, while the strength of a majority is illusory, formed by the gangs who have no opinion — and who, therefore, in the next instant (when it is evident that the minority is the stronger) assume its opinion… while truth again reverts to a new minority.”

Soren Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2019, 01:06:30 am »



Salams to all of you, dear folks.  Returning to this thread after more than a decade!   How time flies in this fleeting world !!   

Generally in the professional world a person's personal life is irrelevant in their professional field.  But if one's profession is teaching the truth about Islam, then a controversial personal life does matter. It would tarnish their professional reputation (not their professional ability and perspective of course), amounting to preaching what they don't practice.   Talking about Dr. Tariq Ramadan at present, while his intellectual abilities and perception are unchanged, his personal reputation has taken a shameful nose dive.  Until a couple of years ago, Mr. Ramadan hadn't yet begun showing the skeletons carefully piled and hidden in his closet.  Suddenly the closet opens and the scary skeletons scatter all over.   With a ton of allegations from more than a dozen women (mostly Muslim reverts I suppose) initially involving rape, now confessed by him as consensual or shared sex, what should be the opinion about this man now?


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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2019, 01:27:05 am »



Sister Heba I'm glad you brought up this facet of Dr. Ramadan's life.  A man of his status in society cannot claim his personal and professional lives can be kept separate.  While most of his Islamic views are wise and logical, the recently disclosed secrets about his personal life have left a terribly foul taste in the mouth of many Muslims.   So, if I now watch or hear a good lecture from him on an Islamic topic, I will say "he talks and perceives correctly, but the man himself is a self-righteous plaster saint who does NOT practice the correctness of his own perception."

That's why I always say, moral and ethical guidance only comes from the 'University of Allah Almighty,' that is, His Guidance.   The Almighty does not guide people based on how many Ph.D diplomas they have earned nor those costly Islamic universities they attended.   Allah sees the quality and genuine inclination of every person's heart & mind.  Even if Tariq Ramadan teaches well,   he is morally weak.  He is incapable of upholding the principle of chastity despite a Ph.D in Arabic and Islamic studies from Uni of Geneva and acquiring teaching jobs in Uni of Notre Dame USA and Oxford Uni.   That's awfully regrettable.  Dr. Ramadan is no doubt helping people to acquire wisdom articulately and rationally through his talks in lecture rooms. I would say, people should continue benefiting from his public lectures.  But away from public spotlight, Dr. Ramadan needs to work much harder for the betterment of his own soul, which is of course his problem for which he will be fully accountable before The Almighty. 

At the moment I see him as a man with a dual personality, and no one (particularly NOT a Muslim scholar) should be of that type.


 
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2019, 01:49:39 am »



Very well said brother TS.  My husband and I were also speaking your language. 

The path of his professional life was somewhat rocky because of the harassment of Islamophobes since early 2000s.  But we never bothered about that for we know where Islamophobes are coming from.  He was widely accused of being a radical, though I didn't see any evidences of that.   I guess it was a bad era, soon after 9-11, when US nationalism was going haywire as one of the most radicalized cultures and all one needed to do was to simply mention the word 'Iran' or 'HezbAllah' or 'Hamas' to be branded a ""radical.""  I suppose he is barred from entering the United States over charity donated to a Palestinian group based in Switzerland nearly 20 years ago.  He is accused of supporting Hamas and thus supporting "terrorism."  For sure, such accusations as thoroughly bigoted, bias and dross.

But the recent stories from whistle blowers have had a devastating impact on his  personal life.  In addition to personal moral reforms of his own character, he definitely and absolutely requires to apologize urgently, officially & publicly to the entire global Muslim bloc about his hidden life as something of the past which must NEVER be repeated.


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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2019, 01:55:13 am »



.....

But the recent stories from whistle blowers have had a devastating impact on his  personal life.  In addition to personal moral reforms of his own character, he definitely and absolutely requires to apologize urgently, officially & publicly to the entire global Muslim bloc about his hidden life as something of the past which must NEVER be repeated.

Exactly sister.  This is a step the man needs to take immediately.  There's no room for any self pride or ego in such a situation.   Unfortunately I haven't read nor heard of any apologies from him either.  That's probably a part of the clerical culture, never to apologize no matter what they personally do.

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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2019, 02:02:57 am »



Yeah, the bugger hasn't apologized either.  If he had, it would only help him to clear his reputation.   They are unable to realize that when caught with their pants down, the first step needed is a candid humble apology with NO intentions of covert male prostitution ever in future.   
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2019, 02:14:58 am »



lol, correctly put sister Heba.  I too see this as male prostitution.  Prostitutes aren't only women who sell their bodies.  Womanizers who indulge in lewd acts are also selling their male bodies by cashing in on their power, fame, wealth or whatever public status they carry.   It's just as disgraceful.  The Noble Quran prohibits sexual promiscuity in both among men and women the same way, with absolutely NO gender distinctions.  Such distinctions are concepts of the corrupted human mind based on self interest.  Unfortunately many Muslims today rigidly assume that a sexually promiscuous man isn't as immoral as a sexually promiscuous woman.   They are both just as immoral.   The Quran makes that very, very clear.

 
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2019, 02:17:01 am »



RIGHT ON, dear brother.    I couldn't have said that better.
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2019, 02:45:53 am »



This second part of the discussion about Mr. Ramadan is very necessary.  Thanks for starting it sister and brother.   Though I continue to support  many of his Islamic views delivered in public, I'm ashamed of his personal life for which he will need to provide serious answers to The Almighty on the Final Day of Resurrection.  He is a typical example of a person with plenty of costly academic education, yet he proved to be thoroughly incompetent to grasp education for his own soul and thus lost the Guidance of Allah while leading his personal life.

I wouldn't see him as a radical either.   I read that in 2009 he hosted a talk show on Press TV while working at a university in Rotterdam, Netherlands.  Reportedly he lost his job because of that talkshow after his appearance in Press TV was misinterpreted by the dimwit, hypocritical university academics as his connection with the ""repressive regime of Iran.""  He stated he appeared in Press TV to highlight "the path of critical debate" which I'm sure was true.  Most importantly, Press TV does not harbor concepts of Salafism, not even to the slightest.  Not to mention, the western establishment has itself been on the best of terms with scores of radical Salafists.

However, coming to his personal life outside his work as a Muslim scholar, he is definitely a womanizer steeped in immorality.  As all of you mentioned, in a profession such as his, he needs to care for his personal character just as much as his professional understanding of Islam because his personal character must be based on the principles of Islam.   Even if the string of rape accusations against him are false, and reports do show much of those allegations are manipulated, Tariq Ramadan did have consensual sex with most of those women.  He already admitted as there were too many evidences leaving no room for denial.  He also knows that in countries like France and USA or any western nation, consensual sex with anyone is not considered immoral, only rape is.  But for Muslims, both are immoral in their own different ways.  Particularly to know that a Muslim scholar has been leading a double life, preaching morality in lectures and indulging in gross debauchery while away from public eyes is outright unacceptable. 

His sordid personal life now out of the closet does require that he be kicked him out of the Islamic scholarly circles, unless he proffers a sincere apology which he hasn't yet.  As we know, the rest of our scholars are no angels either.  Partisanship, money-worship and fame-worship have always been their weaknesses.  If a common Muslim had been responsible for such lewd, bawdy conduct and then that became public knowledge, he would never be welcomed in the masjid.  But if it's Tariq Ramadan, then it's considered okay.  This is plain sick! 


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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2019, 03:02:20 am »



Very honestly spoken sister Ruhi.   And you're so correct, the flaw of partisanship is a huge problem within the circle of our jurists.  It brings the concepts of nepotism, discrimination and lopsided justice in their perception and consequently in their behavior.  I realize there's a lot of negative and false propaganda going on, perpetrated by various non-Muslim communities against the Muslim society.  But in this particular case, since Tariq Ramadan has himself acknowledged that he committed zina,  therefore, in keeping with Islamic values, our other scholars and jurists should collectively give an official statement denouncing the choice of his personal life and mentioning that such private behavior does NOT represent the Islamic character of a person elucidated in the Noble Quran.


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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2019, 03:05:07 am »



Exactly sister, that's precisely it.
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