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Author Topic: as-salamu'alaikum / hello : )  (Read 908 times)
ameen
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« on: January 06, 2007, 08:36:06 am »

as-salamu'alaikum,

I was referred to this forum by an online-friend, and I am very pleased to find a forum with the same kind of views as me - alhamdulillah.

I have just finished reading sr. zeynab's post titled 'Quraan alone - no Hadeeth please' - and I must say that it was a breath of fresh air! It is good to know that there are people out there who take the Qur'an seriously : )

wasalam
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Zeynab
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2007, 01:58:52 am »

 wsalam


Welcome to MV, dear brother.  And thanks for liking the Hadeeth section. 

Yes .. that post you mentioned represents a package of thoughts that had been pricking my mind ever since I began reading the Hadeeth.  It's heartening to learn that you appreciate it.  I had to take a lot of bashing from my brothers and sisters in other forums even for expressing a single point of that article. 

I really look forward to more of your posts here.  JazekAllah Khair.

Ma'salaama .. 
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ameen
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2007, 02:54:51 am »

as-salamu'alaikum sr. zeynab,

thank you for your reply, and for the welcome : )

I understand what you mean about Muslims' hostile reactions to Qur'an-only beliefs. I too have recieved such aggressive treatment on other forums. In-fact, I have been banned permanently from one of those forums, for speaking about my Qur'an-only beliefs. This is the forum I am talking about: www.islamicboard.com

I am currently taking part in another debate, on another forum, where the moderators are not as 'strict' as the forum that banned me. Please take a look at the thread at the link below, and if you think you can help us by also taking part in the discussion, then please feel free to do so by registering on that forum : )

Here is the link:  http://www.islamicaweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57846

If we like-minded Muslims work together to invite others to the true Qur'anic Path, then we can successfully expose the falsehood that has sadly been introduced into Islam - insha-Allah. May Allah reward you greatly for your efforts.

wasalam
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Zeynab
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 03:53:36 am »

as-salamu'alaikum sr. zeynab,

thank you for your reply, and for the welcome : )

I understand what you mean about Muslims' hostile reactions to Qur'an-only beliefs. I too have recieved such aggressive treatment on other forums. In-fact, I have been banned permanently from one of those forums, for speaking about my Qur'an-only beliefs. This is the forum I am talking about: www.islamicboard.com

I am currently taking part in another debate, on another forum, where the moderators are not as 'strict' as the forum that banned me. Please take a look at the thread at the link below, and if you think you can help us by also taking part in the discussion, then please feel free to do so by registering on that forum : )

Here is the link:  http://www.islamicaweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57846

If we like-minded Muslims work together to invite others to the true Qur'anic Path, then we can successfully expose the falsehood that has sadly been introduced into Islam - insha-Allah. May Allah reward you greatly for your efforts.

wasalam


Walaikum Salaam and thanks again br. ameen.  this is an interesting thread.  you have presented solid points.  I am shocked to learn, and this thread is yet another example, that Hadeeth adherents do not hesitate to cast doubts on the authenticity of the Noble Quraan with the intention of upholding the Hadeeth.  What else could I call such an attitude except downright and arrogant kuffari.  The mere comprehensive beauty of the Glorious Quraan says the source of it as Divine and directly from Allah to the beloved Prophet.  I cannot understand what's the mindset of today's so-called Ummah.  They're all either shiias, sunnis, malkis, hanafis, shafis etc.  but none of them are Muslims.  Today if you tell any member of the Ummah that you do not have the time to read the Quraan and you take your guidance from Hadeeth, they will say it's fine.  But if you tell them that you do not read the Hadeeth but only take your guidance from the Glorious Quraan (which is the way it should be for every believer), they will label you a munkir.  May Allah guide the many misguided ones of this Ummah.

And you are right.  Most online forums have zero tolerance for Quraan alone Muslims.  This is another strange mentality of theirs.  As a Quraan alone Muslim, I do not feel the same intolerance toward them.  In my forum here, I welcome the Hadeeth adherents too because I feel they are entitled to express their opinion.  But when I go to any of their forums, all posts raising questions about Hadeeth are deleted.  Very sad situation.

When I have more time, I'll check the forum of Islamic Web more thoroughly, InshAllah.  Thanks again brother.
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 03:58:37 am »

By the way, perhaps it would be a good idea to invite staunch Hadeeth adherents for a debate here.  If Quraan alone Muslims debate in their forums, they don't allow us to say much.  Thus they can come here so both sides can express freely. 
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 10:32:03 am »

Assalamu alaikum,


Walaikum Salaam and thanks again br. ameen. this is an interesting thread. you have presented solid points. I am shocked to learn, and this thread is yet another example, that Hadeeth adherents do not hesitate to cast doubts on the authenticity of the Noble Quraan with the intention of upholding the Hadeeth. What else could I call such an attitude except downright and arrogant kuffari. The mere comprehensive beauty of the Glorious Quraan says the source of it as Divine and directly from Allah to the beloved Prophet. I cannot understand what's the mindset of today's so-called Ummah. They're all either shiias, sunnis, malkis, hanafis, shafis etc. but none of them are Muslims. Today if you tell any member of the Ummah that you do not have the time to read the Quraan and you take your guidance from Hadeeth, they will say it's fine. But if you tell them that you do not read the Hadeeth but only take your guidance from the Glorious Quraan (which is the way it should be for every believer), they will label you a munkir. May Allah guide the many misguided ones of this Ummah.

And you are right. Most online forums have zero tolerance for Quraan alone Muslims. This is another strange mentality of theirs. As a Quraan alone Muslim, I do not feel the same intolerance toward them. In my forum here, I welcome the Hadeeth adherents too because I feel they are entitled to express their opinion. But when I go to any of their forums, all posts raising questions about Hadeeth are deleted. Very sad situation.

When I have more time, I'll check the forum of Islamic Web more thoroughly, InshAllah. Thanks again brother.


No matter how many Ayahs (signs/verses) of the Qur'an is brought out in front of them, they just will not see the point made. Indeed, it is our Lord Who decides who will SEE His Ayahs.


Today if you tell any member of the Ummah that you do not have the time to read the Quraan and you take your guidance from Hadeeth, they will say it's fine. But if you tell them that you do not read the Hadeeth but only take your guidance from the Glorious Quraan (which is the way it should be for every believer), they will label you a munkir. May Allah guide the many misguided ones of this Ummah.

You are absolutely correct. They will find no problem in accepting guidance from 'Hadith Alone' but find it impossible to accept the concept of 'Qur'an Alone'.

The reason for their attitude is because they believe: (1) The Prophet was the walking talking Qur'an (2) Both Qur'an AND living example is needed (2) Therefore Qur'an Alone will not work, but Hadith Alone encompasses both the Qur'an and the living example, thus you atutomatically practice the Qur'an if you practice the Hadith Alone - no need to study Al-Qur'an.

The above mentality has lead to so much corruption entering in what Sunni/Shia Muslims practice as Allah's true religion.


And you are right. Most online forums have zero tolerance for Quraan alone Muslims. This is another strange mentality of theirs. As a Quraan alone Muslim, I do not feel the same intolerance toward them.

I find that they feel 'threatened' by the 'Qur'an Alone' Muslims.

Peace.


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ameen
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 07:10:07 pm »

Walaikum Salaam and thanks again br. ameen. this is an interesting thread. you have presented solid points. I am shocked to learn, and this thread is yet another example, that Hadeeth adherents do not hesitate to cast doubts on the authenticity of the Noble Quraan with the intention of upholding the Hadeeth. What else could I call such an attitude except downright and arrogant kuffari. The mere comprehensive beauty of the Glorious Quraan says the source of it as Divine and directly from Allah to the beloved Prophet. I cannot understand what's the mindset of today's so-called Ummah. They're all either shiias, sunnis, malkis, hanafis, shafis etc. but none of them are Muslims. Today if you tell any member of the Ummah that you do not have the time to read the Quraan and you take your guidance from Hadeeth, they will say it's fine. But if you tell them that you do not read the Hadeeth but only take your guidance from the Glorious Quraan (which is the way it should be for every believer), they will label you a munkir. May Allah guide the many misguided ones of this Ummah.


as-salamu'alaikum,

thanks for taking a look at the thread. I agree - they somehow see following the Qur'an as being a crime. Even in that thread, one of them actually went as far as labelling us 'Kafir', as well as calling me a 'dog' after telling me not to say Salam to him.

Quote
By the way, perhaps it would be a good idea to invite staunch Hadeeth adherents for a debate here. If Quraan alone Muslims debate in their forums, they don't allow us to say much. Thus they can come here so both sides can express freely.


yes, it would be good to also have a debate on this forum. IslamicaWeb.com so far has been quite tolerant with the current debate, and there are a lot of Hadith-oriented / 'on-the-fence' Muslims there too, so if they witness the debate, they may see the Truth in following the Qur'an - insha-Allah.

thanks again : )

wasalam
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Zeynab
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2007, 12:38:24 am »

 wsalam  ameen


yeah .. actually what surprised me was that user Salika is quesitoning the authenticity of the Quraan.  That kind of threw me off
  Shocked
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2007, 09:37:51 am »



 I am shocked to learn, and this thread is yet another example, that Hadeeth adherents do not hesitate to cast doubts on the authenticity of the Noble Quraan with the intention of upholding the Hadeeth. [/font]

It goes to shows exactly how they feel about the Hadith having an equal footing with the Qur'an.

Peace.
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2007, 11:54:27 am »

wsalam ameen


yeah .. actually what surprised me was that user Salika is quesitoning the authenticity of the Quraan. That kind of threw me off
Shocked

salam,

yes, I was also shocked to see that coming from a Muslim. I thought that only non-Muslims do that: throwing doubt on the authenticity of the Qur'an - eg. 'how do you know the Qur'an has not been changed...'

it is really sad, that many Muslims don't seem to believe in the Qur'an the way they should : (

wasalam
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2007, 02:03:19 pm »

What's wrong with questioning the quran?
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 02:39:35 pm »

What's wrong with questioning the quran?

Dear kelly .. Smiley
 
Let me begin this way: According to the dictates of the Quraan we are not to adhere to blind following. We are required to reason, think and reflect before accepting the views of each other. The only thing that we are required to accept on the basis of our firm faith and trust in the Divine Power is the Quraan itself. This is because, a believer is not supposed to ask for tangible proofs of Allah's existence. This will only come on the Day of Judgment. Asking for it in this earthly world would be looked upon as crossing one's bounds. In fact this trust on the basis of which we accept the Quraan without questioning, is one of the baisc purposes and test of human existence.  The Quraan has made this concept crystal clear.

But this principle is only regarding the Message of Allah. Since Allah is One, thus, His words have just one source, i.e. Allah Himself. Hadeeth, fatwas and so many laws of Islamic Jurisprudence that have emerged on the basis of Hadeeth and fatwas are NOT to be given such a status under any circumstances.

Besides, the Divine aspect of the Quraan is really so amazing and the contents fall into place so perfectly for every reflective mind that it doesn't require 'blind faith.' You simply come to know what you are reading. Praise be to Allah.

Thus, in the light of the above Quraanic concepts, it would be a violation to question the Quraan.

Salaams and peace ..
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2007, 03:27:09 pm »

What's wrong with questioning the quran?

Assalamu alaikum,

No, it is fine to "question" the Qur'an, this is how we further our self in faith.

The concern being raised here is that, they (Sunnis) begin to question the authenticity of the Qur'an only when they are made to question the authority and authenticity of Hadith. They overlook the huge difference in the two. The Qur'an (words of Allah) was written down during the Prophet's life - he supervised the writing, Hadith was majorly written down centuries after.

Think of this. If I was in Bukhari's time when he was writing his book, over 200 years after the Prophets death, and I said to people "I will not follow what Imam Bukhari is producing, but will continue to follow the Qur'an as we have been", and somebody says "but how do you know the Qur'an is not changed"...it makes no sense.

Peace.
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2007, 07:31:09 pm »

 salamem


To underscore the basic ideology, we all believe that the Almighty Allah is a symbol of perfection and He is infallible.  We also believe that the Quraan is directly from Allah to the Prophet Mohammad (SAW).  Therefore to question the Quraan would be questioning the infallibility of Allah.  And I don't know how anyone can say there's nothing wrong with that.

What I've observed from my experience, new reverts who didn't get enough access to dedicated counselling find it hard to accept why the Quraan can't be questioned.  That's because they're coming from a background where the Divine Scripture (Old & New Testaments) have lost their stature of being Divine any longer.  The very concept of Divinity has faded from their culture and replaced by skepticism.  It's but natural that under such a situation it will take a while for them to realize the position of the Quraan and how it differs from the previous Scriptures at present.

Nice thread.  And peace!
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