Turkey is NOT guilty of "genocide" against Armenians

(1/3) > >>

Zeynab:

 
Anatolia is another name for Turkey or Asia Minor.  It's referred to the area located east of the Bosporus Straight and between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea.
 
Armenia and Armenian lobby worldwide state that in 1915 Turkey's Ottoman Empire  committed genocide against Armenians living in Anatolia. Armenians striving to make their statements recognized worldwide have strengthened their propaganda of the so-called genocide in several countries and have achieved recognition of the “Armenian genocide” at several Parliaments.
 
The Turkish Prime Minister, Recep Erdogan, has said that this campaign will only create confusion. ”I neither accept nor support this campaign. We did not commit a crime, therefore we do not need to apologize,” Erdogan said.  “I can not understand those who launched this campaign. I can not understand this logic.”
 
This campaign was basically the brainchild of a small group of Turkish dissidents consisting of some writers and journalists.  This little circle of mischief mongers, who are against the non-secular government of PM Erdogan, launched a website issuing an apology to the Armenians regarding the 1915 so-called incident and requesting the people to sign as a gesture of support. 
 
Not to mention, Armenia has since long been a trouble-maker state.  It aroused unrest in Nagorno Karabakh, an Armenian region within the borders and control of Azerbaijan, to secceed and become independent.  This led to years of a bloody struggle betwenn Azerbaijan and Nagorno Karabakh during the mid to late 1980s. 
 
Coming more to the point ..

If you visit "Holdwater's" sites of the Tall Armenian Tale and the Other Side of the Falsified Genocide, you'll learn much about this carefully concocted myth behind the so-called "genocide" against the Armenians of Turkey (in Anatolia) during WWI.  The dirty and untruthful propaganda was started by the Armenian Americans after WWI.  At present, they are given total support by the West to propagate their lies.  That's because Armenians are orthodox Christians.  Thus, it's much like the raving and ranting by the Jews on Holocaust.  In conformity with longstanding, stable and reliable data, less than 1.5 million Armenian Christians lived throughout Turkey during the Ottoman period.  Yet, according to the Armenian genocide myth, more than 1.5 million are said to have died.  For anyone with just two brain cells in their head, the falsification of this episode is evident.   

Statistics collected soon after WWI says a very different story.  While slightly less than 600,000 Anatolian Armenians died during the period of 1912-22, more than 2.5 million Anatolian Muslims perished during the same period.  The inter-communal conflict was carried out by Christian and Muslim vigilante forces, and the situation deteriorated because of famine and diseases as is usual during war times.  None of the historians have until now been able to find any evidence of a "genocide" against Anatolian Armenians.  In fact, all historians have recorded that the Anatolian Armenians fought against their own government.  The Ottoman Souvenir mentions "Their violent political aims, not their race, ethnicity or religion, rendered them subject to relocation."

By the way, "Holdwater" is a Turkish author and academic.  He uses this online username to protect his identity for his own safety.  With the extent of hatred harbored against Turks by the growing intolerance within Armenian Americans, many Turk nationalists consider it necessary to conceal their identity while exposing the truth.  Furious by his hardwork to reveal Armenian fabrications, there have been many attempts by Armenian extremists to unveil "Holdwater's" identity but to no avail.  Holdwater's response "As I have always said, what we need to focus on is the message; not the messenger." 

Before quoting excerpts from the above sites, let's check some information from the Ottoman Souvenir - the Armenian allegation of genocide, the issue and the facts.

Quoting Ottoman Souvenir:
The Ottoman Empire ruled over all of Anatolia and significant parts of Europe, North Africa, the Caucasus and Middle East for over 700 years. Lands once Ottoman dominions today comprise more than 30 independent nations.
 
The tailend period of the Ottoman rule contained frequent unrest, as always happens when an imperiled empire wages and loses battles on remote and disparate fronts, grasping to continue a reign of over 700 years.  During these final years of the Ottoman Empire thousands died - Muslims, Jews, and Christians alike.
 
Yet Armenian Americans have attempted to extricate and isolate their history from the complex circumstances in which their ancestors were embroiled. In so doing, they describe a world populated only by white-hatted heroes and black-hatted villains. The heroes are always Christian and the villains are always Muslim. Infusing history with myth, Armenian Americans vilify the Republic of Turkey, Turkish Americans, and ethnic Turks worldwide. Armenian Americans bent on this prosecution choose their evidence carefully, omitting all evidence that tends to exonerate those whom they presume guilty, ignoring important events and verifiable accounts, and sometimes relying on dubious or prejudiced sources and even falsified documents. Though this portrayal is necessarily one-sided and steeped in bias, the Armenian American community presents it as a complete history and unassailable fact.
 
To oppose Armenian American orthodoxy on this issue has become risky. Any attempt to challenge the credibility of witnesses, or the authenticity of documents, or to present evidence that some of the claimed victims were responsible for their own fate is either wholly squelched or met with accusations of genocide denial. Moreover, any attempt to demonstrate the suffering and needless death of millions of innocent non-Christians enmeshed in the same events as the Anatolian Armenians is greeted with sneers, as if to say that some lives are inherently more valuable than others and that one faith is more deserving than another. The lack of real debate, enforced with a heavy hand by Armenian Americans, ensures that any consideration of what genuinely occurred nearly a century ago in Eastern Anatolia will utterly fail as a search for the truth.
 
Armenian Americans possess the right to promote and celebrate their heritage and even to discuss ancient grievances. However, Armenian Americans seek to deny these very rights to others.
Unquote --

Check the Ottoman Sourvnir site for a set of complete information of the truth which won't be easy to find elsewhere.

As stated by the Assembly of Turkish American Association, this is an interesting piece.

"The Armenians want to play on the sentiments of the Jewish Holocaust and purport that Adolf Hitler made this quotation in a speech regarding his planned annihilation of the European Jews. One of the most frequently utilized falsifications by Armenian spokesmen is that Hitler felt justified in going forward with his plan to exterminate European Jewry during the Second World War, because he was encouraged that the world had not reacted to alleged Ottoman mistreatment of its Armenian population during the First World War.

The problem with this linkage is that there is no proof that Hitler ever made such a statement. It is claimed that he referred to the Armenians in the manner cited above, while delivering a secret talk to members of his General Staff, a week prior to his attack on Poland. However, there is no reference to the Armenians in the original texts of the two Hitler speeches delivered on August 22, 1939, published as the official texts in the reliable Nuremberg documents.

It is natural to assume that Hitler spoke to his generals on that day in his and their native tongue, German. The Nuremberg documents are the only authoritative and authentic sources. However, a few English translations that appeared in New York Times and London Times in 1945 carried an additional sentence in Hitler's speech that does not occur in the authorized German texts."

And now, some excerpts from "Holdwater's" Tall Armenian Tale sites that are certainly worth a read.  For complete details please visit the links above.

Quoting Falsified Genocide website --
Here is my first exposure to the Armenian Genocide: a poster in my school with the Turkish flag's star and crescent formed into a swastika; I was shocked. I had never heard about this episode of history, and it certainly was very bothersome for my own ethnic group to be equated with the Nazis. Especially when the victims turned out to be the Armenians... my parents raised me to feel a kinship with the Armenians. (My father would sometimes curse out the Greeks... although I was never led to believe I should feel hatred for either people, or anyone; quite the contrary, the things we shared in common were stressed in my upbringing, not our differences.) I asked my father whether this genocide was true, and he was far from the biggest authority on the subject. He told me it was the Kurds who did a lot of the massacring, which sounded to me like laying the blame on someone else. (Later on, I would learn there was truth to this assertion.... not because the Kurds were a vicious people but because in the Eastern part of the Ottoman Empire, there were a lot of Kurds who lived side by side with the Armenians; when the Armenians "fired the first shot"  by ethnically cleansing the regions they were in control of, it was the Kurds who were mostly on the receiving end. The counter-massacres committed by the Kurds were mainly in vindictive response to the murders committed by the Armenians.) My father also told me there was some American report that pretty much found the Turks innocent, and that was what appeased me until I could learn more for myself. I guess the American in question was Admiral Mark Bristol."
Unquote --

Quoting an important guestbook comment from the Falsified Genocide site --Turkey or Turks don't sit down and open internet sites to tell the world about themselves, or their problems. Since Turks don't have preconceived hatred against any nation or ethnic group, they don't also sit down and open internet sites to vent off their hatred. Most of the Turkish sites are for commercial purposes like tourism, radios, TV's, papers etc. There are a couple of forums like this site. A couple of forums also are closed because of financial problems and it goes a long way to show you that most of these sites are opened and maintained by individuals, not organizations with certain agendas. I still can not believe it, some Armenian or Greek organizations sit down and make fake internet sites impersonating Turks, and actually put time and money to maintain those sites. How sick is that - Burak, from a guestbook comment.
Unquote --

Quoting Tall Armenian Tale website --
For nearly a century, the Western World has wholeheartedly accepted that there has been an attempt by the Ottoman Turks to systematically destroy the Armenian people, comparable to what the Nazis committed upon the Jews during World War II. Many Armenians who have settled in America, Europe and Australia (along with other parts of the world, known as "The Armenian Diaspora") have clung to the tragic events of so long ago as a form of ethnic identity, and have considered it their duty to perpetuate this myth, with little regard for facts... at the same time breeding hatred among their young. As descendants of the merchant class from the Ottoman Empire, Armenians have been successful in acquiring the wealth and power to make their voices heard... and they have made good use of the "Christian" connection to gain the sympathies of Westerners who share their religion and prejudices.

Turks characteristically shun propaganda, and have chosen not to dwell on the tragedies of the past, forging ahead to build upon brotherhood — not hate. This is why the horrifying massacres committed upon the Turks, Kurds and other Ottoman Muslims by Armenians have seldom been heard. When such reports are heard, Westerners can be callously dismissive... Turkish lives are apparently as meaningless to them as Indian lives were to most early Americans.

It's amazing that whenever the "Armenian Genocide" is referred to in Western media, journalists seem to fall all over themselves in presenting the perspective totally from the Armenian propaganda machinery. Whenever there is an attempt to present "the other side," the passage is usually preceded by "The Turkish Government claims..."
 
What every person needs to do is look at the facts. If there were REAL proof of government- sponsored evil planned against the Armenians, a people who peacefully lived with and prospered beside the Turks for over five centuries, it would be Turks crying out against such horrors before most everyone else...
 
The often told "Armenian Genocide" tale ... a tale told hardly with any opposition in nations sympathetic to the "Christian" Armenians ... has been so ingrained within people's belief systems that any attempt to shed light on the actual truth is often violently rejected. Why, everyone knows those Turks were bloodthirsty savages!
 
Another irony is that while Armenians have been doing their utmost to portray Turks as Nazis in an effort to equate themselves with Holocaust victims,  Turks did their best to save Jews during World War II ... while European Armenians actively supported the Nazi cause.
Unquote --

In the words of Western analysts / writers:
 
"Condemnation without hearing both sides is unjust and un-American" Arthur Tremaine Chester, "Angora and the Turks," The New York Times Current History, Feb.1923
 
"...Matter sent to the papers by their correspondents in Turkey is biased against the Turks. This implies an injustice against which even a criminal on trial is protected." Gordon Bennett, publisher, The New York Herald, circa 1915   

"No Englishman worthy of the name would condemn a prisoner on the evidence of the prosecution alone, without first hearing the evidence for the defence." C.F. Dixon-Johnson, British author, from his 1916 book, "The Armenians."   

"There is no crime without evidence. A genocide cannot be written about in the absence of factual proof."  Henry R. Huttenbach, history professor who appears to support the Armenian viewpoint exclusively, as do... curiously... nearly all so-called "genocide scholars"; The Genocide Forum, 1996, No. 9   

"It is... time that Americans ceased to be deceived by (Armenian) propaganda in behalf of policies which are... nauseating..." John Dewey, Columbia University professor, "The Turkish Tragedy,"  The New Republic, Nov. 1928   

"(This) one-sided and unreliable information (about any people) after a long period of unchallenged time, would create hostility and hatred that would not be easily overcome.” (Cyrus Hamlin, co-founder of the American missionary college in Istanbul [Robert College], opining on anti-Turkish propaganda, late 19th-Century).
 

To read another dynamic report on Western and Armenian propaganda, I would suggest to please read and bookmark the writing of a brilliant Turkish member at the World Affair Online Forum titled BRITISH PROPAGANDA AND THE TURKS.

Ruhi_Rose:
 weldem  .... great exposure of a longstanding truth being hidden since WWI.   This lie about the "Armenian genocide" is supposed to be the 'lower holocaust.'  Armenians have always been hardline orthodox Christian extremists.  Unfortunately, the Ottomans were too kind to these Armenian scoundrels.  That's why they flourished in Turkey for more than 500 years thoughout the Ottoman rule.   Secondly, the following quote from the Tall Armenian Tale website as given above is really important.

"Another irony is that while Armenians have been doing their utmost to portray Turks as Nazis in an effort to equate themselves with Holocaust victims,  Turks did their best to save Jews during World War II ... while European Armenians actively supported the Nazi cause." 

Armenian-Nazi collaboration during WW2 is famous.  Being ultra-conservative orthodox hardline Christians, Armenians are fanatically anti-Semites.  Check out the following old pictures where Armenian reservists are swearing allegience to Hitler's forces.  The captions are within the photo so it could never have been doctored. 





These pics were posted by a Turkish member in an Israeli forum.  The member was eventually banned but fortunately his posts weren't deleted.  So why was he banned?  Because this topic is an embarrassing one for the Jews, and somewhat complicated too.  The Jews are aware that Armenians collaborated closely with Nazis.  At heart, they are also angry about it.  But the Jews also know that they are the 'first love' of the United States and the West.  Though the West supports the Armenian fascists over the Turks and other Muslims, Armenians will always remain the West's 'second best.'  That's comforting for the Zionist state.   The Jews also realise that the West, which supports the Zionists and Jews, supports the Armenians too.  So, for the Jews, recognizing Armenia's Nazi connections would mean drifting away from Armenians and coming closer with Turkey.  Though Turkey has diplomatic relations with Israel, it's a Muslim country and by far the much greater majority of Turks are anti-Israel.  Also, grumbling over Armenian-Nazi collaboration might mean making matters hard with the West and United States.  Israel does not want all this to happen because it doesn't care for ethics.  It only cares for its own interest.  That's why in this forum you will notice that in response to the Turkish member's very well researched information on Armenian-Nazi collaboration, the Israeli responses keep saying that they don't want Israel to get "dragged" into the Armenian-Turkish conflict.  They are clearly not pleased with the information posted by the Turkish member and also threatened to ban him, which they apparently did.  He's now listed as a "guest." 

Like I said, Armenians are noted anti-Semites.  That's no secret at all.  And, Armenian-Nazi friendship during WW2 is just as well-known.  Therefore, you don't really have to search much to find piles and piles of info about it.  Some of the sites on the hobnobbing between Armenians and Nazis are:

- Armenian-Nazi Collaboration blogspot
- The Nazi-Armenian genocide of Jews 1935-1945 by Samuel A. Weems
- The Second World war: Armenian - NAZI Collaboration?
- The Armenian-Nazi Collaboration in WW II By Ayhan Ozer (Assembly of Turkish American Associations)
- Armenian Nazi collaboration from Tall Armenian Tale
- Armenian Nazi collabroation, deliberately forgotten (Turkish forum)

Heba:
Yes, this is a great read with tons of truthful information. 

And uptil now, no Western media has ever talked about those 5 Armenian terrorists who tried to attack the Turkish embassy at Portugal back in 1983.

Ozcan:
Well done sister Zeynab as always. While I would of course never support genocide against any people regardless of race or religion, it's true that there was never any 'Armenian genocide'. 

This is a list of Turkish diplomats killed by Armenian militant organisations. The list includes familiars of diplomats as well as local or international staff members killed as a result of direct terrorist attacks or as collateral damage victims of the attacks directed against Turkish diplomats. The terrorist attacks that are listed here begin with the assassination of Mehmet Baydar, Turkish Consul General to Los Angeles and Bahadır Demir, Consul at the same Consulate General. Although the terrorist attacks against Turkish diplomats begin with these assassinations in 1973 by an individual perpetrator, Gourgen Yanikian, the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA) has assumed – or in some cases accused of – the responsibility of terrorist attacks against Turkish diplomats and other Turkish objectives in 16 countries between 1975 and 1983.


Mehmet Baydar, Santa Barbara, California, Consul General, 27 January 1973
Bahadır Demir, Consul, Santa Barbara, California, 27 January 1973
Kemal Arikan, killed 28 January 1982 in Los Angeles by JCAG members Hampig Sassounian and an accomplice.
Daniş Tunalıgil, Vienna, Ambassador, 27 October 1975
İsmail Erez, Paris, Ambassador, 24 October 1975.
Talip Yener, Driver, Paris, 24 October 1975
Oktar Cirit, First Secretary of the Turkish Embassy, Beirut, 16 February 1976
Taha Carım, Vatican City, Ambassador, 9 June 1977.
Necla Kuneralp, Madrid, Wife of Turkish Ambassador to Madrid, Zeki Kuneralp, 2 June 1978 [17]
Beşir Balcıoğlu, Madrid, Retired Ambassador, brother of Ms Kuneralp 2 June 1978
Ahmet Benler, The Hague, Ambassador's Son, 12 October 1979
Yılmaz Çolpan, Paris, Tourism Counsellor, 22 December 1979.
Galip Özmen, Athens, Attaché, 31 July 1980
Neslihan Özmen, Athens, Daughter of Attaché Özmen, 31 July 1980
Şarık Arıyak, Sydney, Consul General, 17 December 1980
Engin Sever, Attaché, 17 December 1980
Reşat Moralı, Paris, Labour Attaché, 4 March 1981
Tecelli Arı, Religion Officer, 4 March 1981
M. Savaş Yergüç, Geneva, Local Secretary, 9 June 1981
Cemal Özen, Paris, Attaché, 24 September 1981
Kemal Arıkan, Los Angeles / Consul General, 28 January 1982
Orhan Gündüz, Boston, Honorary Consul General, 4 May 1982
Erkut Akbay, Lisbon, Administrative Attaché, 7 June 1982
Atilla Altıkat, Ottawa, Colonel, Military Attaché, 27 August 1982
Bora Süelkan, Burgas, Administrative Attaché, 9 September 1982
Nadide Akbay, Lisbon, Administrative Attaché's Wife, 8 January 1983
Galip Balkar, Belgrade, Ambassador, 9 March 1983
Dursun Aksoy, Brussels, Administrative Attaché, 14 July 1983
Cahide Mıhçıoğlu, Lisbon, Wife of the Counselor, 27 July 1983
Işık Yönder, Tehran, Wife of Local Secretary, 28 April 1984
Erdoğan Özen, Vienna, Labour Attaché, 20 June 1984
Evner Ergun, Vienna, International Officer, 19 November 1984
Çetin Görgü, Athens, Press Attaché, 7 October 1991
Çağlar Yücel, Baghdad, Attaché, 11 December 1993
Haluk Sipahioğlu, Counselor of the Turkish Embassy, Athens, 4 July 1994

Zeynab:
Many thanks for this info brother Ozcan.

Btw, can you provide me with any website links where I can read the history of the Ottomans .. I mean fair and unbiased information?   I see many Musims comparing, rather equating, Erdogan's pro-West policies with the Ottomans. Ottomans are famous for many of their achievements.  I don't think they were ever as puppety as Erdogan.  So why this comparison?  Or am I wrong?

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page