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The bible / hadith story of the personal life of Prophet Abraham

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Zainab_M
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« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2010, 03:24:19 am »


GENESIS 25:1 says: "Then again Abraham took a WIFE, and her name was Keturah."

Then, I CHRONICLES 1:32 says: "The sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine"

Some Bible apologists sheepishly claim that maybe she was Abraham's concubine at first and then got married and became his wife.    

Also, if one thinks a bit, the apology of these apologists is filled with cracks. 

Just read those above bible quotes.  One says Abraham took a "wife" named Keturah.  The other one refers the "sons of Keturah" who was the "concubine."
In those days, people first got married and then had children.  Not the other way round which happens only in the West at present.  The apologists are thinking of it in terms of modern Western culture.  That's crazy.  So, if that line of the bible claims that she was Abrahams's concubine after having several of his sons, that line is trying to say that she was simply a concubine and never got married.  Thus, these two bible verses are certainly a big contradiction.  They cannot be reconciled.  This is what happens when humans write their own imaginary stories.  It's always filled with rifts.
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« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2010, 05:38:37 pm »

Also, if one thinks a bit, the apology of these apologists is filled with cracks. 

Just read those above bible quotes.  One says Abraham took a "wife" named Keturah.  The other one refers the "sons of Keturah" who was the "concubine."
In those days, people first got married and then had children.  Not the other way round which happens only in the West at present.  The apologists are thinking of it in terms of modern Western culture.  That's crazy.  So, if that line of the bible claims that she was Abrahams's concubine after having several of his sons, that line is trying to say that she was simply a concubine and never got married.  Thus, these two bible verses are certainly a big contradiction.  They cannot be reconciled.  This is what happens when humans write their own imaginary stories.  It's always filled with rifts.

Sister Heba thanks for exposing this point.  and Sis Zeynab, very correctly perceived.  There's always been a problem with bible writers.  In the old days they were flat-out liars who changed the Divine Scripture with their own hands by writing their own stories.  Today, they are the same, plus, still more stupid b'coz the interpretations of their lies have no bearings on social environments of the different historical eras.  They think and explain everything based on modern ideas.   

Also let me state here that the Quran gave female slaves the right to reject physical intimacy with their masters if that's what they wanted.  No other law had ever granted this right to female slaves .. not even the African slaves in America until 300 years ago could refuse physical intimacy with their masters. 
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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2010, 07:32:53 am »

A couple of days ago, while browsing the web, I bumped into a discussion by that kafir, Sam Shamoun of the anti-Islam website, Answering-Islam.  He was told by a Muslim about this contradiction in the bible regarding Keturah being Abraham's wife as well as concubine.  Shamoun tried to refute it but failed miserably. 

On being told about the contradiction (btw, this is just one of the many contradictions in the altered bible versions), Shamoun responded as follows by first quoting that bible verse.

"Abraham took another wife, whose name was Keturah. She bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah. Jokshan was the father of Sheba and Dedan; the descendants of Dedan were the Asshurites, the Letushites and the Leummites. The sons of Midian were Ephah, Epher, Hanoch, Abida and Eldaah. All these were descendants of Keturah. Abraham left everything he owned to Isaac. But while he was still living, he gave gifts to the sons of his CONCUBINES and sent them away from his son Isaac to the land of the east."  [Genesis 25]

And then, here's what Sam Shamoun said to save his face, his so-called rebuttal full of holes and senseless talk!

"..... The other concubine obviously refers to Hagar, Ishmael's mother. The fact that the author could refer to Keturah as a wife and concubine in the very same chapter demonstrates how desperate MENJ is to find a contradiction when none actually exists."


Now, please check the altered Bible lines quoted by Shamoun above, and look at the underlined words.

The Christian clerics who scribbled the above bible lines weren't just liars but bird-brained liars.  The contradiction is too glaring even for a retard to ignore.  At the start, Keturah is referred as Abraham's "wife."   Then later, quoting the lines "he gave gifts to the sons of his concubines"  refers to two concubines, Keturah and Hagar.  According to the false stories  of the manipulative Bible writers and their chinese whispers, Keturah and Hagar were the two concubines of Abraham.  At the same time, according to them, Keturah was also a wife.  These Chinese whisperers couldn't even avoid a contradiciton in a single paragraph!
 
Not to mention, all these stories giving names such as Sarah (formerly Sarai), Hagar and Keturah are big fat guessworks.  The only two members of Prophet Ibrahim's family whose names we know for sure are Ishaq (Isaac) and Ismail (Ishmael) as mentioned in the Noble Quran - the only, and only, Divine Book, original and intact in a "Guarded Tablet."
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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2010, 09:16:40 am »

Sorry for the delay.  Here's the complete information on Keturah from the altered bible and how much of it the so-called Muslims accept. 

Just read the following as a man-written story because nothing of it is confirmed in the Quran. 

Genesis 25:1 "Abraham took another wife, whose name was Keturah. 2 She bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. 3 Jokshan fathered Sheba and Dedan. The sons of Dedan were Asshurim, Letushim, and Leummim. 4 The sons of Midian were Ephah, Epher, Hanoch, Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah. 5 Abraham gave all he had to Isaac. 6 But to the sons of his concubines Abraham gave gifts, and while he was still living he sent them away from his son Isaac, eastward to the east country.  7 These are the days of the years of Abraham's life, 175 years."

1Chronicles 1:32 "Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan."

1Chronicles 1:33 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Henoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these [are] the sons of Keturah.

Keturah is specifically referred to as “Abraham’s concubine” at 1 Chronicles 1:32, and quite apparently she and Hagar are referred at Genesis 25:6 where reference is made to the sons of Abraham’s “concubines.”  According to the bible writers, Keturah was therefore a concubine or mistress who never attained the same position as wife.  While “Abraham gave everything he had to Isaac,” his son, he gave gifts to the sons of his concubines and then “sent them away from Isaac" eastward or to the land of the east .. whatever that means.

It has been contended by some bible readers that Abraham took Keturah as a concubine prior to Sarah’s death.  But all guesswork.  According to the man-written bible stories, Abraham lived for 35 years after his wife, Sarah's death, and he died at age 175.  Some bible apologists claim that perhaps Abraham took Keturah as wife after Sarah's death.  But there are no such indications in the altered bibles.

Hence, the above is the sticky bible mess on Prophet Abraham's so-called concubine cum third wife, named Keturah.

Now, as an evidence to show that the Muslims also believe in the story of Keturah even though the Glorious Quran does NOT mention it at all, let me quote a response from Yahoo Q&A piece where a Muslim asks a question on this topic from another Muslim, who's supposed to be knowledgeable. It shows that these so-called Muslims have almost identical views as Christians, expanded by additional contrived nonsense, ignroance and utter stupidity! 

QUOTE

Ibrahim married Keturah by a direct order from Allah (SWT)

Ibrahim was a kind hearted man.. so he used to love by all his heart.. So Allah (SWT) ordered him to slaughter his son "slaughter the extraordinary love to his son" as the prophet must save the most of his love to Allah...

As Ibrahim began to bear extraordinary love to his wives .. Allah ordered him to marry Keturah so as to balance his feelings between the love of his wives and the love of Allah SWT.

Marrying more than one wife - in the view of Al Ghazali - is meant to prevent making the man fond of one woman beside Allah Sobhanaho wa Ta'ala as this is not proper.

Keturah was not incapable of having children.. Keturah had six boys....


UNQUOTE

This guy, a so-called Muslim who's supposed to be giving information on Abraham and Keturah is primarily wanting to explain why Abraham took a third wife by borrowing information from the bible stories and mixing it up with his own ideas.  Note that he talks about Keturah as "wife" not mistress.  This is the only point where he differs from the bible.

Let's check how far his views conform with the conents of the Glorious Quran on Prophet Abraham (pbuh) and his family.

-  He starts by saying: "Ibrahim married Keturah by a direct order from Allah (SWT)"    Not true at all.

-  Then he says: "Ibrahim was a kind hearted man.. so he used to love by all his heart.. So Allah (SWT) ordered him to slaughter his son "slaughter the extraordinary love to his son" as the prophet must save the most of his love to Allah..."    Yes, Prophet Ibrahim was a kind hearted man, that's true.  But Allah did not order Prophet Ibrahim to "slaughter" Ibrahim's son in order to finish the extraordinary love for his son.  In fact, this was not an "order" at all.  It was only a test from Allah for Ibrahim, and Allah never meant to let Ibrahim carry it out. 

-  Next, the author writes: "As Ibrahim began to bear extraordinary love to his wives .. Allah ordered him to marry Keturah so as to balance his feelings between the love of his wives and the love of Allah SWT."   The author is trying to say that Allah ordered Ibrahim to marry Keturah to balance his love between Sarah and Hagar so that Irahim does not forget his love for Allah.  Needless to say, this explanation is complete nonsense.  The Quran does not mention nor even remotely hint on any such ideas.

- Then the author writes: "Marrying more than one wife, in the view of Al Ghazali, is meant to prevent making the man fond of one woman beside Allah (SWT) as this is not proper."    Total rubbish!  Moreover, no one cares about Ghazali's views.

-  Finally, the author writes:  "Keturah was not incapable of having children .. Keturah had six boys."   Thus, he concludes by agreeing with the story of the  altered bible which is NOT confirmed by the Glorious Quran.

Thus, these are the stories of the changed bible on Prophet Ibrahim's "concubine" or third "wife, which the "Muslims" accept by mixing it up with bits of their own ideas.  This is how little most "Muslims" consult the Glorious Quran and how much more they rely on the altered Bible.
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« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2010, 07:47:41 am »


..... The other concubine obviously refers to Hagar, Ishmael's mother. The fact that the author could refer to Keturah as a wife and concubine in the very same chapter demonstrates how desperate MENJ is to find a contradiction when none actually exists."

Sam Shamoun of that fraud website is a notorious and unknowledgeable liar and Islam-hater.  How can he come up with this type of response to refute the contradiction?  That bible quote under discussion definitely refers to both Keturah and Hagar, after stating Keturah as "wife" in the first sentence.  Along with the term "concubines" being in plural, "sons" is also mentioned in plural which means sons of both women.  If the reference was only to Hagar as Sam Shamoun wrongly suggests, then it should have been mentioned 'son' in singular as Hagar had just one son, Ishmael.  Also, the fact that both terms "concubines" and "sons" are in plural, it's definitely not a writing error but a genuine contradiction by the bible of its own story, as usual.
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« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2010, 07:56:17 am »

And thanks, dear sister, for the detailed information on Keturah.  Though I was quite shocked to read the views of that hadither 'Muslim' on Yahoo Q&A, I wasn't surprised.  Most of them prefer seeking information from the altered, man-written bible rather than the Divine Quran. 
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« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2010, 10:06:23 pm »

wow! sister heba, very professionally covered ,, MaashAllah.  I was reading that bit very carefully and with interest, on the refutal of bible contradiction by Sam Shamoon.  His rejoinder was really sorrowful.  He knew it's a contradiction but was adamant to show otherwise, so in his state of embarrassment and nervousness, he made that quick and haphazard overview by explaining the plurals as singulars.  Sister zeynab, u caught that well  Cheesy

I also observed that that apparent hadither, Muslim, at Yahoo Q & A site was similarly trying to hide that Keturah was a concubine.  He too, like that Shamoon guy, wanted to say she was his wife.  As a result, both of them were being evasive about that contradiction.  This is nothing new.  Hadith following Muslms have plenty of common grounds with orthodox Christians.  If there's ever a 3-way debate between a Hadither, a Christian like Shamoon and us, the so-called Hadither Muslim will waste no time joining hands with the Christian.  After all, the bulk of the stuff they follow have a common root.  

Thanks sister CAt for your very valuable contribution and your time.  May Allah take care of all of u.  Salaams.
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« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2012, 06:53:44 am »

ANOTHER BIBLE LIE ABOUT PROPHET IBRAHIM (PBUH).  I AM NOT SURE IF THE 'MUSLIMS' ALSO BELIEVE IN THIS AS THEY BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING WHAT THE MAN-WRITTEN BIBLE WRITES AND THE MAN-WRITTEN HADITH BORROWS, BUT THEY TOTALLY IGNORE THE NOBLE QURAN.  'MUSLIMS' TODAY HAVE THE QURAN, BUT STILL THEY GO TO THE ALTERED SCRIPTURES FOR INFORMATION.  WOE UNTO THEM!

The Bible writers have even gone to the extent of accusing Prophet Abraham of incest.  They have said that Sarah whom he married was his "half sister."  AstaghfarAllah!!!!   The story goes that Sarah who was very beautiful, Abraham purposely lied about her to the Pharoah of Egypt saying that she was his sister and not his wife, otherwise the Pharoah would order to kill Abraham in order to acquire Sarah as his mistress.  I don't understand the logic behind this man-made story.  If the Pharoah wanted Sarah and her 'brother' objected to it, he too could get eliminated.  So, what's the big idea of masquerading as a 'brother?'  Also, if he said he was her brother, how would that help him to stop Pharoah from taking Sarah?  However, the bible story continues by claiming that God suddenly changed Abram and Sarai's names to Abraham and Sarah, respectively.  Then Abraham lies to Pharoah (who's name the bible mentions as Abimelech) saying that Sarah is his sister.  But before Pharoah Abimelech touches Sarah, he has a dream in which God tells him that Sarah is Abraham's wife and he should return her to Abraham.  And so Sarah is given back to Abraham.  But afterwards when Abraham speaks to Abimelech, he tells him that he had not exactly lied because Sarah is his biological half-sister.  For references see the following bible quotes.

Genesis 17:15 - And God said unto Abraham: 'As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

Genesis 20:11 - And Abraham said: 'Because I thought: Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Genesis 20:12 - And moreover she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and so she became my wife.

The Jewish assumption according to their altered scriptures is that Sarah was biologically Abraham's cousin. 

Complete damned mess with a net of LIES! 

Now please tell me my 'Muslim' brothers and sisters, how much of these falsehoods have your jans, Bukhari, Tabari etc. borrowed which you are proud of and in preference of which you disregard the Noble Quran?


 salamem


 Shocked Shocked


Astaghfirullah !!

damn how is it posible   ! prophets don't lie, prophets have No fear of any kafir prophet ibrahim (pbuh) purposely lied called his wife sister Shocked and send her to characterless king , to na mahram as concubine ? the mother of forthcoming Prophets ?  to save his own  life ?? otherwise the Pharoah would order to kill prophet ibrahim in order to acquire ibrahim's wife as his mistress  what a CRAP !!

Abu huraira attacked on the rank of prophet ibrahim .. Angry Prophe Ibrahim was a great prophet and a messenger He holds two very prestigious titles as well. 1. Ibrahim is the father of Muslim nation ( 22.78). 2. He is a beloved friend of Allah [ 4.125.)

These  hadith inventors and enemies of Allah ,prophets and  Islam did not even bother to malign prophet Ibrahim’s great character !! Angry Angry

thanks sis heba for ur great knowledge and Intelligence Analysis in whole thread  Smiley
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2012, 06:57:53 am »

 Thumbsup

Mashallah guys Allah bless u . Truly Throughout very educative and informative piece thank u so much  Smiley

salam and peace to all
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2012, 01:34:16 am »

Walaikum Salam .... you are very, very welcomed dear sister Muslima Smiley 
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