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The bible / hadith story of the personal life of Prophet Abraham


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Author Topic: The bible / hadith story of the personal life of Prophet Abraham  (Read 2756 times)
Ruhi_Rose
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« on: June 01, 2010, 02:29:14 am »

I've read in plenty of writings by our "scholars" and in the changed biblical history about Prophet Abraham's personal family relationships, that his wife Sarah (mentioned in the bible as "Sarai") was given a gift which was a maidservant named Hagar (Hajara in Arabic) by someone in Egypt, probably the king of Egypt.  Then when Sarah found out she couldn't bear children, she passed on this maidservant to her husband, allowing him to sleep with her in order to have a child so that they could have some descendents.

We know that the Quranic contents confirm that Sarah was initially barren and that she had a child very late in life when she was an old woman.  This child was Isaac (or Ishaq in Arabic).  And apparently this was a reward given to her by the permission of Allah Almighty for her good deeds and perseverence.  Verses 11:69-73.  These verses confirm that Abraham's wife (or one of his wives) gave birth as an old woman.  She gave birth to Isaac.  Jacob's name is also mentioned who was the son of Isaac.

But my questions are -

1) The Quran does not confirm the names of any of Prophet Abraham's wives.  This comes only from bible / hadith.  So, are these names "Sarah" and "Hagar" reliable?

2) Second question - all this family politics which the Christian bible mentions and then plagiarized by the Hadith about Sarah getting Hagar as a gift, then giving her to her husband, that Hagar was Abraham's slavegirl mistress.  And then the story goes that after giving birth to Ishmael, Hagar forgot the favor of Sarah and began getting jealous of Sarah's presence.  For this reason Abraham had to take Hagar and Ishmael away and leave them in the desert.  From here arises the incident of Hagar rushing between the 2 mountains (Safa and Marwa) in search of water which after a while came to her miraculously from what's said to be the well of Zumzum.   Now, the Quran does mention about Safa and Marwa as one of the rituals of Hajj (Verse 2:158).  But the Quran does not say that this ritual is symbolic of Hagar looking for water.  And of course the Quran mentions absolutely nothing about Prophet Abraham having a mistress who was his wife's slave.  How can we be so sure that Hagar was Abraham's mistress and not his wife like Sarah?  And also how can we know for sure that Hagar hated Sarah, started getting jealous of her and Abraham took Hagar and their little baby (Ishmael) away and left them in some far-off desert?  Nothing of this is confirmed in the Quran. 

In fact, the Quran only confirms that Abraham and his sons lived in Makkah, but does not confirm where Abraham lived with his family prior to coming to Makkah, when he built the Kaabah with one of his sons.  If you read Surah Ibrahim, Verse 14:35 and 14:37 as quoted ....

"And when Abraham said: My Lord! Make safe this territory, and preserve me and my sons from serving idols." (14:35)

"Our Lord! Lo! I have settled some of my posterity in an uncultivable valley near unto Thy holy House, our Lord!"  (14:37)

In these above verses the terms "this territory" and "settled some of my posterity in an uncultivable valley near unto Thy holy House" refer to Makkah.  But I don't recall any Ayat or passage of the Quran mentioning where Prophet Abraham lived before this.  I'm sure it must have been some place in that region e.g. somewhere in Palestine or Egypt.  But only Allah knows best. 

So, my final and consolidated question is, how much of Prophet Abraham's personal life story should we accept?
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 06:42:25 pm »

Well yes, all these unconfirmed details about Prophet Abraham's family relations come from the altered Christian Bible, Genesis 16:1-16 (Hagar and Ishmael).  I don't have the time to look for it now, but in a few days InshAllah, I'll put up this Bible story and Hadith which has plagiarised this idea. 

I'll first briefly touch the points which the Quran confirms and then those points which the Quran does not mention.  Eventually I'll sum up how we, as believers of the Quran only, must interpret the family relationships of Prophet Abraham. 

Sacredness of Safa and Marwa is mentioned in the Quran in Verse 2:158
 
"Lo! (the mountains) Al-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of God) or visits it, to go around them (as the pagan custom is). And he who does good of his own accord (for him), Lo! Allah is Responsive {Ash-Shakir}, Aware {Al-`Alim}"   2:158  Al-Baqrah

Just the same way as the sacredness of Mount Arafat is also mentioned in Verse 2:198
 
"It is no sin for you that you seek the bounty of your Lord (by trading). But, when you press on in the multitude from Arafat, remember Allah by the sacred monument. Remember Him as He has guided you, although before you were of those astray"  2:198  Al-Baqrah

So, by reading the above verses, we learn and know that landmarks such as Safa, Marwa and Arafat are sacred from the time of Prophet Abraham.  But we are not told the precise historical events that took place in these places and contributed in making them sacred.  Therefore, we cannot presume about those stories mentioned in the altered Bible and Hadith.  Since the Quran does not mention the stories of Sarah and Hagar, we cannot take them as confirmations from the changed and man-written Bible and Hadith. 

Of Prophet Abraham's immediate family, the Quran only mentions the names of the two sons of Abraham, Ishmael (Ismail) and Isaac (Ishaq).  By reading Verses 37:100-113, it's apparent that Ismael was the older son. 
 
The Quran does not mention the names of Abraham's wife or wives.  Neither the name Sarah (Sarai) nor the name Hagar are stated anywhere in the Quran.   The Quran never mentions that Prophet Abraham had a slavegirl in  his household nor that the slavegirl was the mother of one of his sons. 

The Quran makes absolutely no mention that Prophet Abraham abandoned one of his sons and his mother in the desert neither does the Quran refer that Allah commanded him to do that.   The Quran only contains the information that Allah Almighty told Abraham in a dream to sacrifice his son.  This was not a command but only a test of Abraham's faith.  Hence when Prophet Abraham proved the strength of his faith in Allah by showing his willingness to do what he was told, Allah at once stopped him from sacrificing his son and placed a sheep in its stead.

The Quran does not state about any Prophet having a slave or slaves in their households.  Take the example of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).  Zaid, the Prophet's adopted son was a freed slave.  Bilal, a black slave, was freed after he became acquainted with the Prophet and embraced Islam.  Marya, a Coptic slave of Egypt embraced Islam was made a free woman before she married the Prophet,  being known as the 'mother of believers' along with the other wives of the Prophet.   You will read many non-Muslim accounts and also the writings of some hardline traditionalist Muslims who say or surmise that Marya was a concubine.  Not true at all.  Even though in that era, intimacy with a slavegirl was legal as in the case with one's spouse, Marya was neither a slave nor a concubine.  She was legally married to the Prophet and was a free woman.  A very thorough Muslim historian, Sheikh Abdul Majid Subh, states: "Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), instead of taking concubines, entered into lawful marriages based on reason and wisdom. Maria the Copt was given to him as a present, but rather than taking her as a concubine, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) married her, thus elevating her status by marriage.”   This opinion is supported by all unbiased Muslim and non-Muslim analysts.  Not to mention, the Quran forbids concubines and there's no question that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) nor any of the Prophets would take concubines.

" .. the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines."  5:5 Al-Maidah

Coming to the crux of the matter and the answer to your question on Prophet Abraham's immediate family relationships, as Muslims who adhere to the Glorious Quran only, we cannot go into any personal or family gossips of any of the Prophets simply because the Quran does not give us any reasons nor evidences to do that.  In the case of Prophet Abraham, as believers we can only accept and teach others the following aspects ....

Prophet Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.  Isaac was born when Abraham and his wife were elderly. 

"And his wife, standing by laughed when We gave her good tidings (of the birth) of Isaac, and, after Isaac, of Jacob.
She said: Oh woe is me! Shall I bear a child when I am an old woman, and this my husband is an old man ? Lo! this is a strange thing!" 
They said: Wonderest thou at the commandment of Allah ? The mercy of Allah and His blessings be upon you, O people of the house! Lo! He is Owner of Praise, Owner of Glory!"
11:71-73


Ishmael was apparently born earlier.  Check Verses 37:100-113.  No details about Ishmael's mother are given in the Quran.  Whether Ishmael's mother was the same as Isaac's or someone else, only Allah knows best.  Since Allah has not mentioned these details, this does NOT give us the authority to start speculating and picking up guesswork-confirmations from the altered Bible and the faked Hadiths.   Abraham with his son (or sons) lived in Makkah and built the Kaabah, the first place ever constructed for the worship of Allah Almighty alone.  Prior to living in Makkah, we do not know where Abraham and his family lived, because again, the Quran does not mention it.  We know that Prophets Jacob and Joseph were the direct descendents of Prophet Isaac, son of Prophet Abraham.   This is all that we should be talking about and teaching others concerning the family of Prophet Abraham.
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 01:47:07 am »

Plenty of thanks sis.  You've done the sorting out of truth from speculation in a way that it makes it a lot clearer to me.  It's basically the same as the story of Prophet David and the so-called Bathsheba - the Christian Bible made a big issue about it and the Muslim scholars largely accept their story short of accepting the accusation of adultery. But regarding Abraham's story, the altered Bible and Hadith versions are ditto.
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 02:43:08 am »

Good sister Heba.  you have dissected this well in order to segregate truth from guesswork.

Take the example of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).  ............ Marya, a Coptic slave of Egypt who was given as a "gift" to the Prophet by the governor of Egypt embraced Islam while she was on her way from Egypt to Medinah, before she met the Prophet.  After arriving in Medinah, her status was elevated.  She was freed and was married to the Prophet, being known as the 'mother of believers' along with the other wives of the Prophet.   You will read many non-Muslim accounts and also the writings of some hardline traditionalist Muslims who say or surmise that Marya was a concubine.  Not true at all.  Even though in that era, intimacy with a slavegirl was legal as in the case with one's spouse, Marya was neither a slave nor a concubine.  She was legally married to the Prophet and was a free woman.  A very thorough Muslim historian, Sheikh Abdul Majid Subh, states: "Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), instead of taking concubines, entered into lawful marriages based on reason and wisdom. Maria the Copt was given to him as a present, but rather than taking her as a concubine, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) married her, thus elevating her status by marriage.”   This opinion is supported by all unbiased Muslim and non-Muslim analysts.  Not to mention, the Quran forbids concubines and there's no question that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) nor any of the Prophets would take concubines.

" .. the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines."  5:5 Al-Maidah


Also well put.  Just let me add, according to reports, Maria was a slave when she was sent from Egypt but made a free woman before being married to the Prophet (S).

Here let me also warn, the Hadith has plenty of gossips on this story.  People like Tabari etc.  have said a lot of the usual, completely unsupportive stuff, like Maria was very beautiful and white in color (these hadith writers are very color prejudiced and for them, fair skin color is symbolic of beauty), although Maria was from Egypt and by far the majority of people in that country do not have a very fair skin at all.  And then in the writings of many hadith writers abounds those usual stories that Aisha got jealous and hurt, and that Aisha kept observing how much attention Maria was getting and that Maria was gettin quite a lot of attention from the Prophet and all that kinda cheap tattletale gossips and lies.  So just beware while reading the writings of these so-called ulema idiots.  They have written a lot of wrong things on this issue by spicing it up as they have done with all other issues. 
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 03:54:56 am »

Yes brother Persian, that's what I meant .... she was a slave but was a free woman at the eve of her marriage. 

Marya, a Coptic slave of Egypt who was given as a "gift" to the Prophet by the governor of Egypt embraced Islam while she was on her way from Egypt to Medinah, before she met the Prophet.  

However, the above version which I've stated, let's keep in mind, it's from the bungled "history" that's made up by the same people who have narrated & written the hadiths.  Just as 99.9% of Biblical history is DEEPLY controversial, it's the same with the so-called Hadithist "history."   You can't trust a darn thing you read  of the stuff authored by those infamous names - "Tabari, Ibn Kathir, Bukhari, Muslim, Nesai, Tirmidhi" and many more.  Islamic history has been tampered with so much that for most issues it's impossible to get the truth.  You can either get the lies of the Hadith narrators / writers or the lies of the Islamophobe orientalists.  So, whether Marya was really a slave or a free woman by birth when she married the Prophet (SAW) like his other wives is only known to Allah.  But the possibility of her being a free woman by birth is very high. 

And, now to let you know the source of this gossipy story about Hagar being a slavegirl mistress of Prophet Abraham and mother of one of his sons, Ishmael comes from the following Biblical story which is very definitely altered and written by human hands in accordance with the ideas selected by the human minds. 

Genesis 16 : 1 - 16  (Hagar and Ishmael)
1 Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, "The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her."  Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.  When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, "You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my servant in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the LORD judge between you and me."  6 "Your servant is in your hands," Abram said. "Do with her whatever you think best." Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her.  7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, "Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?"  "I'm running away from my mistress Sarai," she answered.  9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, "Go back to your mistress and submit to her." 10 The angel added, "I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count."  11 The angel of the LORD also said to her: "You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery. 12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward  all his brothers."  13 She gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: "You are the GOD who sees me," for she said, "I have now seen the One who sees me." 14 That is why the well was called Beer Lahai Roi ; it is still there, between Kadesh and Bered.  15 So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne. 16 Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael.

And below is the Bukhari hadith plagiarized from the Bible story quoted above.  The hadith elaborates a bit on Hagar getting paniky for her child and running around for water till she finds it.  But otherwise it's exactly the same thing and this Hadith originates from the lines of the Bible quoted.

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 584: Narrated Ibn Abbas:
When Abraham had differences with his wife), (because of her jealousy of Hajar, Ishmael's mother), he took Ishmael and his mother and went away. They had a water-skin with them containing some water, Ishmael's mother used to drink water from the water-skin so that her milk would increase for her child. When Abraham reached Mecca, he made her sit under a tree and afterwards returned home. Ishmael's mother followed him, and when they reached Kada', she called him from behind, 'O Abraham! To whom are you leaving us?' He replied, '(I am leaving you) to GOD’s (Care).' She said, 'I am satisfied to be with GOD.' She returned to her place and started drinking water from the water-skin, and her milk increased for her child. When the water had all been used up, she said to herself, 'I'd better go and look so that I may see somebody.' She ascended the Safa mountain and looked, hoping to see somebody, but in vain. When she came down to the valley, she ran till she reached the Marwa mountain. She ran to and fro (between the two mountains) many times. They she said to herself, 'i'd better go and see the state of the child,' she went and found it in a state of one on the point of dying. She could not endure to watch it dying and said (to herself), 'If I go and look, I may find somebody.' She went and ascended the Safa mountain and looked for a long while but could not find anybody. Thus she completed seven rounds (of running) between Safa and Marwa. Again she said (to herself), 'I'd better go back and see the state of the child.' But suddenly she heard a voice, and she said to that strange voice, 'Help us if you can offer any help.' Lo! It was Gabriel (who had made the voice). Gabriel hit the earth with his heel like this (Ibn 'Abbas hit the earth with his heel to Illustrate it), and so the water gushed out. Ishmael's mother was astonished and started digging. 

Ibn Abbas has babbled even more in this Hadith, a story with no connections with the Noble Quran. 

In Verse 21:71 Allah states about Abraham and Lot: "And We rescued him and Lot (and brought them) to the land which We have blessed for (all) peoples."
As I've mentioned in my response to sister Rose, we know as per the contents of the Quran that Abraham came to Makkah but we don't know the name of the place where he lived prior to that.  But our so-called scholars are taking Verse 21:71 as a reference to Abraham and Lot moving from Mesopotamia (Babylon) to Syria and Palestine.  Obviously this information got to be from the Bible which then must have jumped over to the Hadith.  The Noble Quran makes no such precise assertions. 

Wherever you may read the "history" of Prophet Abraham written by Muslim writers, you will find it identical to the Bible version of this story mixed with the "Muslim bible of Hadith," the two being strikingly similar.

Also, my husband was doing some research on this topic at my request and he came across another Bible gossip about Prophet Abraham that he also had a third woman, another concubine named Keturah.  The Muslims also believe in it.  I am not sure if the Muslims believe in this story of Keturah directly from the Christian bible or whether their Hadith "bible" also mentions something on Keturah.  After my husband finds out about this bible drama, I'll find out from him put it up here.  One thing is sure.  This Keturah, whoever she was, again has NO connections with Quranic information. 
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 04:15:35 am »

I spent all evening carefully and gradually reading this thread and educating myself with Sister Heba's intelligent analysis.  MashAllah.  Thus, I didn't get any time to work shifting posts at the 'politics' board Smiley  I'll be comin back here again tomorrow, InshAllah.  Sister, do please put up the Keturah episode.  I never knew about this and still don't.  Waiting to get some info.  Sister Rose, thanks for this very useful question.  Br. PT is absolutely right.  Regarding the story of Marya, it's filled with scandalous gossips and chatterings.  I've come across plenty of that. 
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 02:31:25 am »

Sister Heba, one of your messages were duplicated so I removed the duplicate one Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 02:34:38 am »

Aw!  thanks for the deletion sis.
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2010, 02:40:18 am »

 btw - before putting in more info on Bible / Hadith LIES

Genesis 16 : 1 - 16  (Hagar and Ishmael)
1 Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, perhaps I can build a family through her."  Abram agreed to what Sarai said. "The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 

 Just like to clarify this bit.  when Sarai says she gave her Egptian maidservant Hagar to her husband to be his "wife" is simply a way of saying (or altered bible style of writing) meaning to live with him like a wife for practical purposes.  It doesn't mean she suggested that her husband legally marry Hagar.  Thus, this altered bible also quotes Sarai saying ""The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; .."

Also don't forget, the different bible versions and even same version of the bible are all infested with contradictions.
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2010, 03:30:33 am »

ANOTHER BIBLE LIE ABOUT PROPHET IBRAHIM (PBUH).  I AM NOT SURE IF THE 'MUSLIMS' ALSO BELIEVE IN THIS AS THEY BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING WHAT THE MAN-WRITTEN BIBLE WRITES AND THE MAN-WRITTEN HADITH BORROWS, BUT THEY TOTALLY IGNORE THE NOBLE QURAN.  'MUSLIMS' TODAY HAVE THE QURAN, BUT STILL THEY GO TO THE ALTERED SCRIPTURES FOR INFORMATION.  WOE UNTO THEM!

The Bible writers have even gone to the extent of accusing Prophet Abraham of incest.  They have said that Sarah whom he married was his "half sister."  AstaghfarAllah!!!!   The story goes that Sarah who was very beautiful, Abraham purposely lied about her to the Pharoah of Egypt saying that she was his sister and not his wife, otherwise the Pharoah would order to kill Abraham in order to acquire Sarah as his mistress.  I don't understand the logic behind this man-made story.  If the Pharoah wanted Sarah and her 'brother' objected to it, he too could get eliminated.  So, what's the big idea of masquerading as a 'brother?'  Also, if he said he was her brother, how would that help him to stop Pharoah from taking Sarah?  However, the bible story continues by claiming that God suddenly changed Abram and Sarai's names to Abraham and Sarah, respectively.  Then Abraham lies to Pharoah (who's name the bible mentions as Abimelech) saying that Sarah is his sister.  But before Pharoah Abimelech touches Sarah, he has a dream in which God tells him that Sarah is Abraham's wife and he should return her to Abraham.  And so Sarah is given back to Abraham.  But afterwards when Abraham speaks to Abimelech, he tells him that he had not exactly lied because Sarah is his biological half-sister.  For references see the following bible quotes.

Genesis 17:15 - And God said unto Abraham: 'As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

Genesis 20:11 - And Abraham said: 'Because I thought: Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Genesis 20:12 - And moreover she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and so she became my wife.

The Jewish assumption according to their altered scriptures is that Sarah was biologically Abraham's cousin. 

Complete damned mess with a net of LIES! 

Now please tell me my 'Muslim' brothers and sisters, how much of these falsehoods have your jans, Bukhari, Tabari etc. borrowed which you are proud of and in preference of which you disregard the Noble Quran?
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« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2010, 03:47:21 am »

Just like to clarify this bit.  when Sarai says she gave her Egptian maidservant Hagar to her husband to be his "wife" is simply a way of saying (or altered bible style of writing) meaning to live with him like a wife for practical purposes.  It doesn't mean she suggested that her husband legally marry Hagar.  Thus, this altered bible also quotes Sarai saying ""The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; .."

Also don't forget, the different bible versions and even same version of the bible are all infested with contradictions.

Correct, I already figured this out. 

'MUSLIMS' TODAY HAVE THE QURAN, BUT STILL THEY GO TO THE ALTERED SCRIPTURES FOR INFORMATION.  WOE UNTO THEM!

Exactly!  In fact, there's a verse in the Quran where Allah (Subhana wa'Taala) rubukes the Jews and Christians by saying (I paraphrase the meaning) that even though they have their Scriptures yet they don't consult it for a law or for information.  Apparently, in the 7th century the Torah and Gospel wasn't changed as much as it has been changed now.  So at that time the People of the Scripture could have consulted their Books for resolving many of their issues but they didn't.  The Muslims at present, though they have the Quran fully original and intact, yet won't bother to consult it and instead they  prefer man-made fabricated stories to factual & confirmed information of the Quran.  Instead of consulting the Quran as furqan, they consult the man-written lies as their so-called furqan along with the Jews and Christians.  How pathetic.

The Bible writers have even gone to the extent of accusing Prophet Abraham of incest.  They have said that Sarah whom he married was his "half sister."  AstaghfarAllah!!!!   Genesis 17:15 - And God said unto Abraham: 'As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.

Genesis 20:11 - And Abraham said: 'Because I thought: Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Genesis 20:12 - And moreover she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and so she became my wife.

 Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked   This lie leaves me aghast!!!!
 

Now please tell me my 'Muslim' brothers and sisters, how much of these falsehoods have your jans, Bukhari, Tabari etc. borrowed which you are proud of and in preference of which you disregard the Noble Quran?

heheeeheheehe!!!!!  Bukhari & co. "jaans"  have borrowed just about everything which our poor retarded sisters and brothers are sniffing and following like cats & dogs, without lifting up their heads even once to check how much of the falsehoods they have been swallowing and thus gettin fatter by the day   Cheesy
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 03:55:08 am »

Me, also waiting to read the info on Prophet Ibrahim's so-called third wife, Katura (or whoever).  Any hadiths on it as well, or is it a 'concentrated' bible gossip?
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2010, 04:20:33 am »

Exactly!  In fact, there's a verse in the Quran where Allah (Subhana wa'Taala) rubukes the Jews and Christians by saying (I paraphrase the meaning) that even though they have their Scriptures yet they don't consult it for a law or for information.  Apparently, in the 7th century the Torah and Gospel wasn't changed as much as it has been changed now.  So at that time the People of the Scripture could have consulted their Books for resolving many of their issues but they didn't.  The Muslims at present, though they have the Quran fully original and intact, yet won't bother to consult it and instead they  prefer man-made fabricated stories to factual & confirmed information of the Quran.  Instead of consulting the Quran as furqan, they consult the man-written lies as their so-called furqan along with the Jews and Christians.  How pathetic.

Right on the dot!  a very fitting comment, sister.  Allah (The Most High) has absolutely asserted this point about the Jews and Christians during the Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) era, and the so-called Muslims are observing the same practice now concerning the Noble Quran - ignoring the Quran and running after the writings of priests and imams.

And yes, I will certainly put up the information on Keturah.  Somehow I think the Hadith thieves missed the details on Keturah forged by the Biblers.  I haven't yet read any Hadith mentioning her name.  However, I have found comments by Muslims on the web acknowledging their recognition of this information. 
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2010, 02:05:29 am »

I briefly know the bible story of Ketura.  I read it in a journal several years ago.  But I never gave any importance to it.  It's thoroughly unreliable.  The purpose of this apparently contrived story is to show Prophet Abraham's greatness not through his righteous character, but on the basis of the number of sons he had.  The Ketura story says that apart from Ismail and Ishaq, Prophet Ibrahim had about 6 or 7 sons from Ketura.  According to pagan ideas having sons was supposed to be a sign of greatness and keeping one's family name going.  Jews and Christians who bounced back into paganism and began being influenced by these superficial values perhaps thought that with only Ismail and Ishaq, Prophet Ibrahim's family wasn't big enough to show his greatness.   There's also a contradiction in the bible regarding this story.  Some versions say she was Prophet Ibrahim's concubine while a few other versions say she was his third wife. 

The Noble Quran has discussed the descendents of Prophet Ibrahim in much detail starting from Ishmael, Ishaq, Yakub (Jacob), Ishaq's son and Yusuf (Joseph), one of the sons of Yakub.  But there's no mention of Prophet Ibrahim have 6 or 7 other sons.  If it was true, I have no doubt that Allah (Subhana wa'Taala) would have given this information in the Quran or at least a reference to it.
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« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2010, 03:02:13 am »

Very interesting perception brother Pt.  And yes, very correct.  There's a contradiction in the Bible on this issue.  Nothing unusual.  Different Bible versions contradict each other on every issue under the sun!

One version says Keturah was Abraham's "wife" and another version says she was his "concubine."

GENESIS 25:1 says: "Then again Abraham took a WIFE, and her name was Keturah."

Then, I CHRONICLES 1:32 says: "The sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine"

Some Bible apologists sheepishly claim that maybe she was Abraham's concubine at first and then got married and became his wife.   If she got married to Abraham later, why is the gossipy Bible so silent about it?  The Bible makes a scandal and story about everything from nothing.  If she later got married to Abraham,  I would expect the 'Bible paparazzi' to forge another story in one of the Bible versions celebrating Abraham's marriage to Keturah. 
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