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Al-Araf ("dwellers on the Heights")


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Author Topic: Al-Araf ("dwellers on the Heights")  (Read 1134 times)
Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2014, 04:38:02 am »

salamem


 no sis heba i don't know any other verse & all explanations are clear to me  Smiley

u get me wrong i guess  Undecided ?   i didn't meant to carry disagreement or anything els sis i put it here only to inform that maududi also said the same thing why no idea and i too didn't know that .

i hope it's clear Smiley

LOL  Cheesy  I'm not hinting on disagreement sis.  Anyone has the right to disagree.  I'm only interested to know from where does this idea of people of the heights waiting for decision come ?  Because, I can't find it in the Quran and yet a hear a lot of people saying it.
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2014, 04:45:01 am »

Brother TS .... your piece is hugely informative.   It tells still better how truth is either shunned or mixed up with tales.  The gossips of folks like Basri and Hakki are much too shocking.  Mehmet Paksu obviously has no problem using myths as options and putting them on the table. 

I repeat, very nice piece brother.  Shukran.  Many thanks.  JazekAllah khair.
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« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2014, 05:42:16 am »

My bro many thanks for more new info i didn't know that much !! that , this issue has been hugely messed am upset for that , i am conscious about everything stated in Quran, that's why i asked here for confirmation and as i said i have learned what i wanted to sis zeynab explained very well to me in her 2nd post & i get that am not confused Smiley Quran contents are all above and final for me too Alhamdulillah i am able to reject and i do reject all extra Quranic information  @ this nonsense of sirat bridge story always drive me crazy & i have already discussed here that topic on MV ...   that's strange , how sirat bridge linked up too .and The paragraph of Mehmet's article on Araf,that the companions of Araf are not humans but they are angels. !!  that sucks

Thanks everyone for great contribution to educate all of us .... jazakAllah

salam and peace to all
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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2014, 05:11:14 pm »

Salaams and many thanks dear sisters Heba, Muslima and brother TS.  Also thank you sister Muslima for re-opening this discussion which helped to contribute some more very useful information. 

Brother, this additional info was eye-opening!  lol.   I also wasn't aware of such an enormity of stories the human imagination has created on the topic of Heights. 

One of the very positive things I've learned on being a Quran alone follower is that if we keep everything within the boundaries of the Quran (which is what Allah wants us to do), we simplify matters greatly.  It becomes much easier to understand every aspect under study and it eradicates contradictions.  Inconsistencies arise only when humans poke their noses and create their own stories.  Studying every Quranic verse in the light of Quranic information / principles makes it to the point and consistent.  It prevents one's imagination running wild.

A Quran alone believer will never claim to be able to answer all questions.  That's realism and it's one of the beauties of being a Quran alone follower. Following the Quran teaches humility, honesty and acknowledging human boundaries.  It's only Allah Who knows everything, not we.  Many verses in the Quran either briefly elucidate or briefly refer to some factual existence in the Heavens or the universe or to some historical event which might not be within the reach of historical data or it could be outside the bounds of science to access.  All such verses can only be interpreted within the evidences found in the Quran itself.  Stepping  beyond will get that interpretation contaminated with speculations/conjectures.   So while reflecting on a certain verse, after I've touched all Quranic points and if someone still has further questions .. I simply say   "I DON'T KNOW.  ONLY ALLAH KNOWS IT."  It's no infra dig.  In fact it boosts one's status in the field of truth and knowledge.  Unfortunately the imams think they have to show that they know the answers to all questions.  No wonder the myths that keep popping up have acquired such a variety.
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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2014, 05:29:28 pm »

Yeah sis Muslima, I get your point which is true and perfectly understandable. JazekAllah khair and peace to you too.




One of the very positive things I've learned on being a Quran alone follower is that if we keep everything within the boundaries of the Quran (which is what Allah wants us to do), we simplify matters greatly.  It becomes much easier to understand every aspect under study and it eradicates contradictions.  Inconsistencies arise only when humans poke their noses and create their own stories.  Studying every Quranic verse in the light of Quranic information / principles makes it to the point and consistent.  It prevents one's imagination running wild.

A Quran alone believer will never claim to be able to answer all questions.  That's realism and it's one of the beauties of being a Quran alone follower. Following the Quran teaches humility, honesty and acknowledging human boundaries.  It's only Allah Who knows everything, not we.  Many verses in the Quran either briefly elucidate or briefly refer to some factual existence in the Heavens or the universe or to some historical event which might not be within the reach of historical data or it could be outside the bounds of science to access.  All such verses can only be interpreted within the evidences found in the Quran itself.  Stepping  beyond will get that interpretation contaminated with speculations/conjectures.   So while reflecting on a certain verse, after I've touched all Quranic points and if someone still has further questions .. I simply say   "I DON'T KNOW.  ONLY ALLAH KNOWS IT."  It's no infra dig.  In fact it boosts one's status in the field of truth and knowledge.  Unfortunately the imams think they have to show that they know the answers to all questions.  No wonder the myths that keep popping up have acquired such a variety.

 Thumbsup  Couldn't agree more sis.


Something else I've observed and I don't know how far that's correct.  When people talk about this topic they usually make references in the present tense.  In some traditional forums I've also observed they have connected it with punishments in the grave.  What do you folks think on that?  I know it's a subjective issue and only Allah knows it best.
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« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2014, 06:14:40 pm »


Something else I've observed and I don't know how far that's correct.  When people talk about this topic they usually make references in the present tense.  In some traditional forums I've also observed they have connected it with punishments in the grave.  What do you folks think on that?  I know it's a subjective issue and only Allah knows it best.


Hummm, I too have observed a very emphatic present tense in lots of discussions often connecting the people of the Heights with azab in the qabr, the latter itself being a very hadith based idea  Smiley   I think this is what prompts the "scholars" to speak in the present tense. 

As we know, in most cases punishment will begin on the Day of Judgment. In some cases however for certain people it could begin soon after death.  The two examples I can think of are Pharoah and Noah's folk.

"The Fire; they are exposed to it morning and evening; and on the day when the Hour uprises (it is said): Cause Pharaoh's folk to enter the most awful doom."  (40:46).

"Because of their sins they were drowned, then made to enter a Fire. And they found they had no helpers in place of Allah."  (71:25 Surah Noah).

Verse 40:46 about Pharoah and his people indicates their punishment began soon after death and on the Day of Judgment it will be further intensified.  Vese 71:25 on Noah's folks, "they were drowned, then made to enter a Fire" indicates that they have already been sent to Hellfire.

Similarly, even the rewards of some may begin soon after death, if Allah Wills, though I cannot recall any verses on that at the moment.  If anyone can remember a verse or verses in that context, please quote for our assistance.

However, all of the above can be taken as exceptional cases.  As a standard rule of Allah, from what I understand reward and punishment generally begin on the Day of Resurrection.  As for the Heights, the Quranic verses do not specify the present.  If you read word by word at Quranic Corpus, Verses 7:44-49 here and continued here and here, it doesn't indicate present tense either.  So I would presume it will take place on the Day of Judgment.  The present tense on this topic apparently comes from concepts outside the Quran.

But like you said, only Allah knows the final truth.
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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2014, 06:26:07 pm »

Salam again and thank you everyone for your understanding and feedback.

On the issue of present tense, I second your opinion Sister Zeynab.  That's more or less how I see it too.



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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2014, 08:10:35 pm »

Right.  That makes perfect sense.  The Corpus Quran links are good references and helpful for discerning such points.  Sometimes different rules of grammar of Arabic and other languages of translation could also play a role in such misunderstandings.  But mostly it's the writers of legends who are responsible for this kinda negative creativity.  Thanks sis.
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2014, 08:12:40 pm »

Sometimes different rules of grammar of Arabic and other languages of translation could also play a role in such misunderstandings. 

That's a good point too. But like you said, usually it's hampered with traditionalism.
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2018, 11:22:40 pm »



As-Salam Alaykum to all.  Coming back to this very important information after 4 years.

So, in a nutshell Al-Araf (الأعراف‎) is the borderline between Paradise and Hellfire or we can say it's the realm that separates Paradise from Hellfire; that Araf will be the home of people whose righteous and unrighteous deeds are evenly balanced.

In another interesting discussion at our Muslim community centre last evening, a sister opined that the 'evenly balanced deeds' refers to those (or includes those) who did good deeds in this world but without belief in Allah.  I mentioned that as for those who don't believe in Allah will surely be headed toward Hellfire because Allah has made this point ample clear in many Quranic Verses without a doubt .... those who die in a state of disbelief do not qualify for forgiveness at all.  I would presume that regardless of a person's good deeds, if that person constantly rejected the presence of Allah, then for such a person even Al-Araf might be too good a place.   Your opinion please.

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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2018, 11:35:33 pm »



Walaikum As-Salam sister Ruhi.   In my opinion you're absolutely right.  No matter how good a person's deeds were in earthly world but if that person was a total disbeliever throughout their life, they cannot be counted as people with balanced deeds in the next world.  They are the kuffar.   The worth of earthly good deeds without belief in Allah has its validity only in this world.  As the soul passes into the next world, the permanent world, the worth of those good deeds expire.  As that person rejected Allah in earthly life so Allah will reject them in the Hereafter.   This is what I understand from the Noble Quran and it sounds very fair and just to me. 

Related links for reference:

Good conduct without belief NOT enough to enter Paradise
Every person receives what they have earned (Surah Bani Israel)
"Can atheists go to Heaven?"
Can believers take disbelievers as close friends?
Do not stay in the company of those who don't think of Allah: (Surah An-Najm)


 
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2018, 11:38:52 pm »


Totally agree with your opinion, sisters.   I think this aspect has been explained very thoroughly in the related links.   According to my perception too, disbelievers will not qualify for Al-Araf either.  They will belong to Hellfire.
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2018, 05:57:34 am »



Many thanks sisters.  True, this is what I meant.  Just wanted to confirm with some feedback.    Alhumdulilah.   Allah bless.
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