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On destroying the buddha statues at Bamiyan

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Ruhi_Rose
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« on: December 17, 2010, 11:04:41 pm »

As-salam Alaykum everyone.  I've got a question please.  Regarding the Talibans destroying the statues at Bamiyan, some Muslims don't agree with it.  What is your opinion of its legality based on the Noble Quran?
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Zainab_M
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 12:05:14 am »

As a believer, I firmly consider that the destruction and removal of those statues at Bamiyan was legal.   I will explain it in detail with references to the Noble Quran.

Those 'Muslims' who don't agree with it are looking at this issue from a different and incorrect perspective without thinking of the importance of their removal in a broader sense as conveyed by the Quran many times.  Or probably it's their plain hatred of the Talibans that makes them critisize it.  I'm absolutely no fan of the Talibans either, but here I'm not thinking of the Talibans. I'm taking the Quran alone as my Criterion (Furqan).  And, whoever does anything that's in conformity with the Quran, we must uphold it .. even if it's the Talibans. 

Idols which people carve for pagan worship are the biggest enemies of Allah.  That is a confirmed fact. 

The Quran gives the right to minorities for living in an Islamic state.  The non-Muslim minorities can keep their religious places like the temples etc. and they can keep their idols inside those temples.  In this case  their statues won't be removed by the Muslim authorities because this comes in the category of protecting minority rights.  But the pagan minorities must make sure that they keep their idols strictly within the premises of their temples.  They are not allowed to make statues or idols and spread them around in public places in a Muslim country.  

Those statues of buddha in Bamiyan were made thousands of years ago when the people of that region were pagan buddhists who worshipped these statues.  Since Afghanistan was a pagan land at that time, so the pagans put up their idols publicly.  But that cannot be allowed any longer because Afghanistan is now a Muslim country.  If any of the Afghans at present think that such statues represented their ancient culture, this is not relevant. These ancient representations of culture and whaterver monetary value such carvings may have as museum objects or tourist attractions are of no priority compared to the adherence to total Monotheism (Tawheed) in a Muslim society by removing all signs and symbols of past idol worship.

It should also be known that during the time of the Prophet (S) there were 360 idols in the Kaaba which were placed there since centuries.  The Prophet's mission was to restore the Kaaba for Monotheistic worship as it was during the time of Prophet Abraham and rid the Kaaba of these idols.   Thus, after the conquest of Makkah, all 360 idols were totally destroyed.  In matters like these, there's no question of keeping anything aside for the purpose of history.  One never knows what sort of deviant ideas such historical preservations of idols can bring into the minds of people if still retained at random all over a country.  Hence, one cannot take any chances.  One of the references in Verse 17:81 is the destruction of the idols in the Kaaba after the conquest of Makkah.  I quote this Verse: "And say: Truth hath come and falsehood hath vanished away. Lo! falsehood is ever bound to vanish."  This verse refers to the destruction & removal of all idols from the Kaaba and subsequently the vanishing of idol worship from Arabia.  
 
After the conquest of Makkah, there were still small pockets or segments of idolaters in Makkah who continued making trouble for the Muslims and who are mentioned in Surah At-Taubah.  It's possible that these idolaters had some statues in their homes or private houses which they might have converted into their temples.  Similarly, there were also Christian churches and Jewish synagogues which contained some statues as they do even now.  But in a Muslim country, these people must keep their statues strictly within their private premises, refusing which, the statues will have to be destroyed.
 
Removal of all idols from open areas in a Muslim country is a very important issue.  Anyone who falls into the trap of idols can incur unforgivable sin.  Thus, Allah mentions again and again in the Quran to absoutely give up all idols: "So shun the filth of idols, and shun lying speech,"  22:30.  
 
The pagans of pre-Islamic Arabia also sacrificed humans and animals as offering at the altars of their idols.  Allah gave stern orders to believers to stay away from this.  "O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed."  5:90  Definitely, after the conquest of Makkah, all such altars along with the idols were destroyed otherwise if such objects continue to exist all over the town, believers can never feel comfortable in that place, and some can also get misguided.
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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 12:49:03 am »

MashAllah my sister, on reading your response carefully I must say that you've adhered to the Quranic values to the fullest.  I agree 100%.  I've talked to a few of my secularist friends about this episode a number of times.  These secularists (they might like to be called "modernists") are plainly very insensitive on matters of the Quran.  Going exactly by the Quran means very little or nothing to them.  Such people make a lot of 'hoo-haa' when you talk to them about the Bamiyan issue.  That's why I know don't talk to them about it at all since I know where they are coming from.   

There are some others with a somewhat different view who say that these pagan symbols should be kept only in museums in Muslim countries in order to inform & educate Muslims about the jahilya of the pagans in the past.  One might say okay, this much can be permitted.  But you know, I've seen one very unfortunate incident happen to a person we know, and it happened through these museum visits.  I've seen this happen personally and it's no hearsay.  This lady who is an old friend of my family, was very interested in digging into history not by reading books (which is fine) but by going to museums which should also be okay for a person with a strong iman.  But unfortunately her iman wasn't strong.  She always had problems understanding the Quran.  And then these visits to the museums of different countries she visited,  she kept seeing different idols of ancient times and she really got drawn to paganism (AstaghfarAllah) and she also started believing in reincarnation.  Then, one summer she went on a vacation to Egypt, Alexandria.  It was her very first visit there.  When she returned, she came to our house and started telling my mother that she felt she had been to Alexandria before and the place seemed very familiar to her.  What she believed was that formerly her soul was in someone else's body who was  living in Alexandria. And my mom told her to immediately stop all this museum visits, and my mom really spoke to her very frankly and told her that she was simply paving her road to Hellfire by getting wrapped up in these false and polytheistic ideas.  She listened to my mother with interest but she didn't get convinced of her misguidance.  After that, gradually, our meetings with her lessened because neither of us felt compatible in each others' company anymore.  Since the last almost 10 years we haven't met her at all nor heard from her. Only Allah knows what her plight is now, whether she has gotten more deviated or has come to the path of Allah .. only Allah knows best.   It's really sad, isn't it?
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2010, 07:21:29 am »

I'm reading and learning so much.  Many thanks for such brilliant and dynamic replies, dear sisters ....
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2010, 08:48:35 am »

Btw ,, I thought of modifying the title so that it can come more easily when people do a google search on this topic ..
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2010, 09:08:38 am »

But you know, I've seen one very unfortunate incident happen to a person we know, and it happened through these museum visits.  I've seen this happen personally and it's no hearsay.  This lady who is an old friend of my family, was very interested in digging into history not by reading books (which is fine) but by going to museums which should also be okay for a person with a strong iman.  But unfortunately her iman wasn't strong. 

Hummm, see that!  This is exactly the risk when Muslims start keeping statues around.  Sometimes they say it's only from the historical view point, and sometimes they also keep similar statues in their living rooms saying that these are just for decoration purposes.  But the problem is, one never knows when such persons might slip and get caught in Satan's trap.  They don't understand this issue and often appear too confident of themselves, but if or when they slip, they are ruined and they cannot help themselves.  Particularly those who have shown lack of understanding of the Quran from the beginning are the most vulnerable to misguidance if they indulge in the stories & decorations of such statues.  They invariably end up going pathetically astray.  Allah has already said in the Noble Quran that those who reject Him blindly, they only keep getting thrown further into darkness.  I too knew a so-called Muslim who was a widowed lady in my country of origin treading on exactly the same path of ultimate self-destruction.  I don't know what on earth goes on in the minds of these strange bots.  They get attracted to Satanic ideas so easily as if they are unable to think nor reflect for themselves.   

Let all believers take refuge in Allah from the dangerous whispers of Satan.
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2010, 09:11:17 am »

I'm reading and learning so much.  Many thanks for such brilliant and dynamic replies, dear sisters ....

You are welcomed dear sister Rose ..
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2010, 10:15:57 am »

Sister Zeynab, very well said and explained.  Whether or not people like to hear it, your well analysed inputs are packed with truth, Alhumdulilah. 

Regarding that story of the deviant lady mentioned by sister Heba, I was told of one very interesting study on the minds of such crazy people based on medical science.  A cousin of mine who died a couple of years ago (may Allah bless her soul) was a brilliant psychologist who had made a very good career for herself.  Much more importantly, she was also a true believer, a Quran only Muslimah who like us was very annoyed of all the changes that have been introduced to corrupt Islam. 

I recall, about 4 or 5 years ago, during a family get-together we were discussing the absurdity of the theory of reincarination and how some people deceive themselves by thinking they are living on someone else's soul and that they are familiar with past experiences of others.   My cousin said that this is actually a psychological problem and such people are living amidst the echoes of their own sub-conscious minds connected with their own past.  This confuses them and the confusion leads them to think of these senseless pagan tales.  The psychological aspect, which is the actual truth, is too difficult for them to understand.   
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2010, 10:26:31 am »

You are totally correct sister Zeynab.  We are completely against the use of statues even in one's homes from historical view points or for decoration purposes.  Some so-called Muslims who are secular and don't bother about teaching the principles of the Quran to their kids might show interest in this sort of harmful objects.  Such stuff simply need to be destroyed and thrown out. 

I recall, about 4 or 5 years ago, during a family get-together we were discussing the absurdity of the theory of reincarination and how some people deceive themselves by thinking they are living on someone else's soul and that they are familiar with past experiences of others.   My cousin said that this is actually a psychological problem and such people are living amidst the echoes of their own sub-conscious minds connected with their own past.  This confuses them and the confusion leads them to think of these senseless pagan tales.  The psychological aspect, which is the actual truth, is too difficult for them to understand.   

Br. Pt, this is sounds like a very correct and interesting perspective. Can you give some more details on your late cousin's studies on it?
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 04:57:48 pm »

Yes br. TS, I too would appreciate if you please give some details on the findings by your late cousin. 

So sorry to learn that she's passed away.  May Allah Almighty grant her peace.
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2010, 11:27:44 am »

Thank u sister Zeynab.  Yes, it was very sad for us to lose such a nice person.  May Allah, The Greatest, take care of her soul.  ameen.

I'll give the details of her studies.  What actually happens according to scientific study which my cousin explained is this:

Upto the age of 2, we can't recall anything of our lives, if or when we try to think at an older age.

From the age of 3 onward, the recollections of the past start rolling in, little by little.

But if at age 45, a person tries to recall the events he experienced at age 4 or 5, it will only be one or two brief flashes from a large stretch of an event, the entire duration of which might be 4 or 5 hours or more.  However, the rest of the memories of this event might seem forgotten but actually they are still in the sub-conscious mind waiting to be triggered. 

These dormant memories in the sub-conscious can sometimes get triggered by experiencing any daily event later in life .. maybe at age 45 or 35 or 55 etc.  For example, a 45-year-old man was taken to a birthday party by his mother when he was 5-years-old.  He might vaguely recall that he wore a bright colored shirt, sat with his mom in a car and ate a piece of cake in a brightly decorated room.  That's it.  But the entire event was surely much longer with plenty more details.   All that would be in his sub-conscious mind.

Then, for instance, at age 45 that man visits the house of a friend for the first time.   As he steps inside the house, he somehow feels familiar with that house as if had been there before.  This is usually when silly people start making up stories on "reincarination."  But what's actually happening is, the decor or the internal layout of that house is simply reminiscent of that other house which the 45-year-old man saw long ago at age 5.   The detailed description of that house which he saw at age 5 is in his sub-conscious mind about which he isn't aware himself.  But it is there.  When he sees a friend's house years later at age 45, the sub-conscious gets reminded of the past and gets triggered.  But when it gets triggered, it doesn't bring back the complete set of memories of that distant past in a systematic way.  Instead, it only produces a feeling of familiarity and confusion, somewhat like a dream.  The person gets confused because it's his first visit, yet he feels acquainted with the place.  The reason, I repeat, is because a dormant memory of the past has woken up in the sub-conscious and is sending garbled messages to the conscious mind.  It's as simple as that.  But non-professional folks seldom understand it as correctly as this.  And those who are already inclined toward misguidance, grab this psychological issue as an excuse to construct unfounded myths.
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2010, 06:51:55 pm »

Subhan'Allah.  Very useful and interesting study.  I must save this so that if in future I come across any of those reincarnation frauds, I will tell this to them very frankly. 

Many thanks brother PT.
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2010, 08:25:08 pm »

This is an excellent analytical study.  It makes tons and tons of sense.  I always felt that such people have a psychological issue.  And this study has put all the pieces of the puzzle neatly in their correct places.  Mash'Allah, may Allah bless the soul of your dear cousin.  She must have been really intelligent.  I too will save this to put it before those morons inclined toward the reincarnation garbage.

Thanks a lot br. Pt. 
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 03:56:35 am »

Some more comments on the destruction of buddha statues in Afghanistan after learning about the Islamophobe incidents in America .. day in and day out.

I'm no fan of the talibans, but let's not mess up our priorities and mix them up with double standards.

Neither the Americans nor their European allies nor anyone for that matter is entitled to blame the destruction of buddha statues in Afghanistan any longer.  Doesen't the world know how widely & systematically mosques are being desecrated throughout the length and breath of the US, a country that constantly brags about its tolerance?  During the last 5 years scores of mosques have been partially or greatly destroyed with petrol bombs & explosives packed with sharpnels.  Any number of rightwing vandals have broken into mosques at night and destroyed the carpets, chandeliers and other
personal properties within the premises.  Loads of human and animal
feces have been thrown on the doors and windows of mosques while prayer
congregations have been taking place inside.  Pages of the Glorious
Quran have been torn, burned and strewn across of entrances of mosques.
Any number of mosques have been badly damaged by vandals throwing bricks and rocks through the mosques' rear glass doors.   

American Muslims who had purchased land for building mosques 2, 3 or 4
decades ago with their  hard earned money are being denied permission
to build new mosques across the US. 

You name it.   With all this medieval style oppression going on by the world's supposedly "most developed country" against the Muslim community, why point fingers at the talibans for demolishing the buddha statues?   

Moreover, shortly after the demolition of these statues when the US forces invaded Afghanistan, the wide scale destruction they carried out of the entire infrastructure of the country which included the destruction of  roads, bridges, hospitals, orphanages, shops and of course peoples' lives & homes was far worse than the demolition of just 2 statues.  It also included the heavy environmental damage caused in large parts of the country especially along the Tora Bora region where countless number of caves and natural rocks have been broken into bits by carpet bombing in 2002 with 500 pound daisy cutters and what not.  Not to mention, the destruction of the lives and homes of innocent villagers continues till this day from Afghanistan across northern Pakistan by unmanned US drones.  One would need to be terribly stupid or viciously selfish with a screwed up sense of priority to fret over the demolition of a couple of
statues when the superpower stands guilty of demolishing the entire infrastructure of that country.   

Preserving a country's heritage is a luxury, not a necessity.  It DOES NOT precede the welfare and protection of the community at large.  Like I said, I'm no champion of the talibans and we had heard much about their "radical" rule from the Western media between 1996 and 2001.  But whatever might have been their radicalism, their rule now looks like a garden party compared to the rampage carried out by foreign forces.  And by the way, did you see the photos of the brutalities carried out on unarmed civilians by the US "Kill Team" that set off for its assignment to Afghanistan a year ago?   Yes, that's right, they were officially named the "Kill Team."  Don't see those pics.  They are much too disturbing and will rob you of your sleep, appetite and peace of mind for days if not weeks.       

And now listen to this.  There's a right-wing politico-religious presence centred in the US engaging in destroying religious and cultural artifacts as a key aspect of its ideology of "strategic level spiritual warfare."  A fringe evangelical movement is rapidly positioning itself within America's mainstream political right. It's well past time for political journalists to start covering what this movement is up to.  Leaders have bragged online about the destruction of Native American religious artifacts which traditional conservative evangelicals have denounced as un-biblical.  They are being known as "America's own talibans."
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