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Bani Israel working corruption & tyranny twice - Divine warning to Israelites

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Ruhi_Rose
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« on: July 02, 2011, 11:09:55 pm »

 
BismEm


The following verses of Surah Bani Israel (or Al-Isra as its also called) apparently refers to historical events.  Would anyone know which historical events are meant by the Israelites working corruption and becoming tyrants twice?  It seems to be that the reference it to ancient history.  I am also quite sure it excludes the current corruption & tyranny being carried out by the Zionist state which is certainly being watched by Allah Almighty noted for further retribution of these obnoxious sinners. 

"And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture: Ye verily will work corruption in the earth twice, and ye will become great tyrants.  So when the time for the first of the two came, We roused against you slaves of Ours of great might who ravaged (your) country, and it was a threat performed.  Then we gave you once again your turn against them, and We aided you with wealth and children and made you more in soldiery.   (Saying): If ye do good, ye do good for your own souls, and if ye do evil, it is for them (in like manner). So, when the time for the second (of the judgments) came (We roused against you others of Our slaves) to ravage you, and to enter the Temple even as they entered it the first time, and to lay waste all that they conquered with an utter wasting."  (17:4-7)  Surah Bani Israel


Your feedback would be helpful.  JazekAllah Khair.  Thanks .... 
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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2011, 02:49:57 am »



Biblical history being altered almost completely, it's really very difficult to confirm which historical events are meant by these two references.  The first reference is particularly hard to pinpoint.  Only Allah will know it best.

As you said, these are ancient historical events after the Exodus, when Israelites arrived in Palestine (then known as Philistine).

The only detailed tafsir or commentary you will find on these verses is by Maududi, but he has taken his views from the biblical descriptions almost entirely.  That's no big deal as anyone could have read it from the bibles.  Secondly and most importantly, biblical descriptions of ancient history are anything but reliable.   Regarding verses 4 to 7 of Surah Bani Israel, Maududi has referred to tons of biblical versions which mention that when the Israelites entered Philistine they were commanded in the Torah (and probably in succeeding Scriptures too since other Prophets also came to the Jews after they entered Philistine and after the death of Prophet Moses) to fight the natives of that land.  Now, I don't know how far this is true.  In the Noble Quran, Allah has made it very clear that one is allowed to fight against a community only if that community turns into an aggressor and attacks you first.  Other information mentioned in Maududi's tafsir from the biblical versions are that the indigenous people of Philistine were idolaters and the Israelites after entering Philistine became divided into many tribes and kingdoms.  This disunity weakened them and thus they were not able to successfully win their battles against the natives.

The only verse in the Quran which contains some information on the history of the Israelites is verse 2:246 of Surah Al-Baqrah.

"Bethink you of the leaders of the Children of Israel after Moses, how they said unto a prophet whom they had: Set up for us a king and we will fight in Allah's way. He said: Would you then refrain from fighting if fighting were prescribed for you ? They said: Why should we not fight in Allah's way when we have been driven from our dwellings with our children ?  Yet, when fighting was prescribed for them, they turned away, all save a few of them. Allah is aware of evil-doers."   (2:246)

The above verse does clearly indicate that there was fighting between the Israelites and some other parties which apparently must have been the native people of Philistine.  But we don't know the details or the circumstances that led to their differences.  However, it's also obvious that these indigenous people of Philistine must have taken up arms against the Israelites instead of opting for peaceful co-existence and for that reason the Israelites were commanded to fight.  I'm simply presuming from whatever I can understand from the above verse.  The exact truth is only known to Allah.

Briefly put, with whatever information we find in the Quran, we can only presume that when the Israelites went to Philistine, they needed to fight or fend off the attacks of the natives but they could not do that successfully.

According to Maududi's study, the first destruction of Israelites in the Quran refers to the terrible devastation they suffered at the hands of the Assyrians and Babylonians.  Then the Israelites experienced better times starting from approximately 500 BC after being freed from the clutches of the Babylonians and some of their kingdoms grew strong like those of Judea and Samaria.  A lot happened between 500 BC and 70 AD which you can find in Maududi's commentary.  The second destruction refers to the differences that arose between the Romans and the Jews which is more recent information quite commonly found in history books.  The Jews are said to have revolted against the Romans (who were militarily much stronger) and thus the Roman response against the Jews was brutal.  They destroyed every Jewish stronghold and symbol including the Jewish Temple Mount. 

That's as much as I would say on this.

Only Allah Almighty knows the exact and complete details.

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Ruhi_Rose
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 01:09:03 am »



Thanks very much sis Heba.  Your analysis makes much more sense than Maududi's write-up.  it's a lot easier to follow, concise and elucidating only what is known to us through the Quran.  

Maududi has written much, everything from different versions of the bible. And many of the stuff he's quoted from biblical sources completely contradict the Quran.  Altered biblical sources write that God sent the Israelites to the promised land to fight against those who were living there and turn them out because they were disbelievers.  But Allah says in the Quran that we are to fight the disbelievers if they attack us first and refuse to accept peace.  Allah has also mentioned that if they offer us peace, Allah gives us no way against them.  Unfortunately the idolaters of Makkah opted for combat and not a peaceful co-existance and so did the followers of Abdullah bin Ubey (munafiqs) in Madinah and the 3 jewish tribes. I too am sure that that must have been the case in Holy Land.  But the man-written biblical stories that have lost their originality reflect a similar mindset that were rife prior to the times when principles & guidelines of the Divine Faith were revealed through the successive messengers of Allah.

Thanks much again sister Heba.  Very helpful piece.

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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 01:19:31 am »



Maududi's version which is entirely from various biblical sources seems to have many contradictions with the Noble Quran.  And thanks sister Heba for putting up a very rational and logical tafsir.  The second destruction, I knew, referred to the hammering the Romans gave to the Jews around 68 or 70 AD after coming to know that the Jews were secretly plotting against them.  But the first destruction goes very far into ancient history and we can only presume from whatever man-written information we can trust a little, which aren't too many unfortunately particularly considering the dirty politics that's become so rampant in favor of the illegal, modern Zionist state.  I suppose Sister Heba's analysis is the closest we can come to.  And only Allah knows the exact event.
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 01:28:43 am »



Many thanks sister Heba .. very helpful clarification. 

It isn't unusual for Maududi to take a lot of  help from the altered biblical stories.  Thus one needs to read his explanations very carefully and many of the things he says simply has to be discarded because they just aren't compatible with the Glorious Quran.

I'll transfer this thread to the discussions board of specific Quranic verses because it's quite a lengthy topic.

Thanks again, sis.
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2018, 04:39:42 am »



Salams all.  Having a discussion on this topic this weekend InshAllah which we discussed in this thread 7 years ago, Alhumdulilah.  Just wanted to sum it up fast.  The two punishments for the Jews allude to the Jews carrying out many violations after their various tribes spread in the Holy Land.  The era includes the times much after Prophet Moses, probably around the times of Prophets David and Solomon or even later.  I would surmise that these eras are divided in two parts as the Noble Quran explains, on the Jews working corruption in the land twice.   Right?

 
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2018, 04:44:31 am »


Wa'salam dear sis.  Well yeah. As everyone would know, the Israelites who left Egypt with Prophet Moses during the Exodus entered the Holy Land 40 years later as alluded in Verses 2:243 and 5:20-26.  While only Allah knows best, according to some commentators the first destruction refers to the devastation the Israelites suffered at the hands of the Assyrians and Babylonians.  The second is probably at the hands of the Romans (which, as far as I know, was an A.D. era not B.C.). 


Related posts:

Exodus
".. and Allah said unto them: Die; and then He brought them back to life."
Necessity of being a believer + good conduct to acquire Maghfarat.


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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2018, 04:47:48 am »



Aw!  Thanko dear sis!   .......   Allah bless.
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« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2021, 05:31:28 pm »



InshAllah, we will also be discussing this topic focused on Verses 4-7 of Surah Al-Isra coming Jum'ah after Jum'ah salah.    I'm reading Sister Heba's input very carefully to separate the Quranic information from the altered Biblical stuff.
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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2021, 05:33:18 pm »



Alhumdulilah, good to know that brother.   InshAllah, hope it goes well.  If anything worth knowing comes up, do put it up here, InshAllah.
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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2021, 05:35:42 pm »



Thank you sister.   I'm sure most of those folks who take info from hadith will discuss the same stuff as Maududi's contents from the altered bibles ..... and hadith borrows a lot from the altered bibles.  But I will make sure I plainly put the Quranic information on this topic so that it's not mixed up with the man-written biblical stories.
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2021, 05:36:55 pm »



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