Be careful to break your fast at the right time

[Ruhi_Rose]

 


A reminder for the month of Ramadan, every year.



To all our brothers and sisters in Faith who will be fasting during the coming month of Ramadan which is only a few days away, remember to break your fast at the right time as highlighted in the Glorious Quran.   Please continue reading carefully.

The right time to break our fast is approximately 30 minutes after Maghrib or sunset when darkness has taken place completely.  Check the following Quranic verses for evidence and information.


وَكُلُوا وَاشْرَبُوا حَتَّى يَتَبَيَّنَ لَكُمُ الْخَيْطُ الأَبْيَضُ مِنَ الْخَيْطِ الأَسْوَدِ مِنَ الْفَجْرِ ثُمَّ أَتِمُّوا الصِّيَامَ إِلَى اللَّيْل
 2:187 - Al-Baqrah

Transliteration

Wa Kulū Wa Ashrabū Ĥattá Yatabayyana Lakumu Al-Khayţu Al-'Abyađu Mina Al-Khayţi Al-'Aswadi Mina Al-Fajri  ۖ  Thumma 'Atimmū Aş-Şiyāma 'Ilá Al-Layli    (2:187)

Translation

"eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall"  (2:187)  Surah Al-Baqrah

The above verse makes it clear that fasting begins from sunrise and ends when darkness of the night has taken place which is 30 to 40 minutes after we offer our Maghrib prayers.  The Arabic term used for describing the time to end the fast is ليل or "leyl."   This term refers to the darkness of the night and NOT sunset.

Sunset (Maghrib or setting of the sun) and darkness of the night are NOT the same.  Sunset has been explicitly differentiated from nightfall in the Glorious Quran.   A very good example to elucidate this difference is Verse 17:78 of Surah Bani Israel (also known as Surah Al-Isra) which mentions the specific timing for the Maghrib or sunset prayer and the importance of reciting the Quran at dawn.



أَقِمِ الصَّلاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَى غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا
17:78  - Surah Al-Isra

Transliteration

'Aqimi Aş-Şalāata Lidulūki Ash-Shamsi 'Ilá Ghasaqi Al-Layli Wa Qur'āna Al-Fajri  ۖ  'Inna Qur'āna Al-Fajri Kāna Mash/hūdāan    (17:78)

Translation

"Establish worship at the going down of the sun until the dark of night, and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn is ever witnessed."    (17:78)  Surah Al-Isra

The above verse is self-explanatory asserting that the time for Maghrib prayer begins when the sun goes down, that is, at sunset.  The verse also clarifies that Maghrib prayer can be offered from the time the sun goes down until it gets dark which takes about 30 minutes, in certain parts of the globe it might take a bit longer, around 40 minutes.   In this verse 17:78 the Arabic term mentioned for sunset or going down of the sun is   دلوك الشمس  (dulook al-shams), and the Arabic term for "dark of night" is leyl or ليل
"Leyl" or night is by no means the same as as sunset of dulook al-shams.  That's absolutely clear and obvious.

Also, another expression is used in the Quran for the setting of the sun which is مغرب الشمس or maghrib al-shams.   This expression has been used in Verse 18:86 of Surah Al-Kahf.


حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِنْدَهَا قَوْمًا قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَنْ تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَنْ تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا 
18:86  -  Surah Al-Kahf

Tranliteration

Ĥattá 'Idhā Balagha Maghriba Ash-Shamsi Wajadahā Taghrubu Fī `Aynin Ĥami'atin Wa Wajada `Indahā Qawmāan  ۗ  Qulnā Yā Dhā Al-Qarnayni 'Immā 'An Tu`adhdhiba Wa 'Immā 'An Tattakhidha Fīhim Ĥusnāan   (18:86)
 
Translation

"Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness."  (18:86)  Surah Al-Kahf.

The Noble Quran makes it crystal clear that fasting must commence from the time when the early light of dawn begins to appear upto the darkness of the night.  And darkness of the night comes after sunset.

It's very unfortunate that so many folks who fast regularly waste their entire day's effort by breaking their fasts 30 to 40 minutes prior to the prescribed time in the Glorious Quran.

Sunset and night .. the clear difference.  Ramadan, the month of fasting, is the Month of the Quran.  Yet so many of us violate the Quran by disobeying even the simple timings of fasting confirmed in the Glorious Quran.


 

And please, for the sake of Allah Almighty, do not make the mistake for searching the Hadith tales for the right time to break the fast.  The only information you will get there will be the grossly incorrect ones.  The idea of breaking the fast dot at sunset arises from the various Hadith narrations of Bukhari etc.  Because of such sources it's now become a standard practice to break the fast as soon as the Maghrib adhan is heard.   By doing this you invalidate your fast by purposely breaking it 30 to 40 minutes earlier, flouting the Divine dictate in preference to man-made traditions.   

For evidence, check the following haphazard and discrepant Hadith apparently scribbled in a haste either by the narrator or the compiler, indicating that neither of them had read the Quran nor knew anything about it.   This is NOT from the Prophet (S).

"Once night comes from there and the day disappears from there, and the sun has set, the fasting person should break his fast." (Hadith - Bukhari)

Senseless and crazy!

There's one specific false Hadith that has crossed all bounds of transgression.  This Hadith maliciously slanders our beloved Prophet (S) by gossiping that the  Prophet (S) would break his fast even before sunset.  Read below.


Narrated Ibn Abi Aufa:
We were in the company of Allah's Apostle on a journey. He said to a man, "Get down and mix Sawiq (powdered barley) with water for me." The man said, "The sun (has not set yet), O Allah's Apostle." The Prophet again said to him, "Get down and mix Sawiq with water for me." The man again said, "O Allah's Apostle! The sun!" The Prophet said to him (for the third time) "Get down and mix Sawiq with water for me." The man dismounted and mixed Sawiq with water for him. The Prophet drank it and then beckoned with his hand (towards the East) and said, "When you see the night falling from this side, then a fasting person should break his fast." (Sahih Bukhari 3:31:162)

I don't know if this lie has been penned by Bukhari or the narrator or some other person who may have double-crossed them later by infiltrating into the Bukhari collection.  Whatever might have happened, this is a sick joke and a rude lie.  These people are trying to propagate (to suit their own selfish purposes) that the Prophet (S) found nothing wrong breaking his fast before sunset when the Quran explicitly confirms and commands not to break the fast until dark (or until 'leil').  And yet, no one in this Ummah seems to complain over such nasty gossips by idlers against the Prophet (S).     


For further references check the following posts:

What's the right time for taking Iftar?
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2190.0

Uptil what time can we eat sahoor?
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=880.0

Fasting in the Glorious Quran
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1788.0

[patricia]

You know sometimes it is easy to forget just how lucky I am.

Anyway, I was right about that. I always make my prayer first and then break my fast.

However, you mentioned the timed prayer is from sunset until night so we have that long to get the prayer in.  I remember reading once, cannot remember the verse at the moment, to start the prayer at sunset and keep going until night.

So I had the idea the prayer should last that long.

Secondly, Allah does mention he over looks much in Quran.  Inshallah he will over look those who break it a bit early and give them their fast for the day.


That does not give us an excuse to not study Quran.

I am here for discussion. I take no ones word of mouth. I do my own studying.

[Ruhi_Rose]

Yep, we all do our own studying sister.  That goes without saying.  My studies based on how I've understood the Noble Quran tells me that those who break their fast at sunset are very definitely and purposely violating an important Quranic instruction that's right before them as large as life.  The fact that it's an intentional violation by giving preference to man-written law over Divine instruction is a serious transgression in my opinion.  Forgiveness, reward and punishment is always upto Allah alone.  That too goes without saying. 

Furthermore, I also think that I could NEVER take advantage of Allah's infinite mercy by flouting His Law and following some imam's law because it suits me more and then comfort myself by thinking, "no problem, Allah is very forgiving and He will forgive me."   Allah has stated in His Message that forgiveness is for those who err unknowingly or through ignorance, then repent and don't repeat the same violation.  But what most Muslims are doing regarding this matter (and many others too) is different.  They know what time the Quran mentions for ending the day's fast, yet, even if you show them the Quranic evidences they turn away and obstinately break their fast 30 to 40 minutes earlier.  First, it's the practical violation.   Second, it's the stubborn intention of being loyal to their imams and ignoring the command of Allah.  If I did this, my guilty conscience would finish me. 

[Heba]

Thanks Rose.  Good you added the English transliterations too.  Excellent post put up at the right time.  I'll send it around InshAllah.

[Heba]

I am here for discussion. I take no ones word of mouth. I do my own studying.

Dear sister Patricia.  This needs to be clarified otherwise our many guest readers might misunderstand us.  Don't know why u r emphasizing the stuff you've mentioned above.  We already know it and we all have the same approach.  Your assertion sounds quite out of context as though we are forcing u to accept whatever we put up thru our written communication.   Our job is to put on the table what we see as true or closest to the truth according to our research.  Accept it or not is upto every reader.  We are truth-seekers and truth tellers, not preachers.  We only don't want people to trash our forum and distort its face/atmosphere by putting up some of those aspects disallowed according to our Forum Rules.  That's all .. and we surely have the entitlement to demand that.  But that absolutely does NOT mean we want our readers to accept everything we put up. 

Besides, as u know, this is basically a read-only forum run by the MV Team and we occasionally or seldom select registered members.  Our posts are results of ardous research with the Quran as the Criterion, not gossips and chinese whispers.  Anyone on board who is unhappy, wrongly thinking they are being made to accept "ones word of mouth," we're very sorry about that.  They can simply quit. 

[patricia]

Allah says to debate with the most gracious voice. Does he not?
Now, a forum is discussion. So if you want read only then maybe you should have selected a web site for read only purposes.

I am quite intelligent. Much to the surprise of  Arab/non-Middle Eastern country muslimah's. Therefore, I use my own intelligence and just do not take anything I read as truth.  Maybe - well ofcourse Allah lead me to Islam- however, maybe that is why I am a muslim.

The way I am seeing this is you just want someone who posts after your post....oh! thank u so much for this enlightening information.  Well, that is good you need that also.  However, debating is good.  Not a bad thing.  

It is the jihad that we can contribute without the gun.

I have read the Quran and studied it again and again.  Not Arabic. For I only understand a little bit of Arabic.

I would love to know Arabic. However, I know my intelligence would be associated with that.  So I don't even try.

I am not arguing with you.  I actually ask a question of sorts.

Does the Quran not say to keep praying from dusk until night?

Truth is. I did not get an answer.  I see what you read instead of my question.

Demand all you want.  You can demand I leave. If fact, this is only going to get worse. I see that.  And you know I am almost gone anyway.

However, forums that demand off topics will be closed. And the silliness goes on and on.
Of course things will get off topic.

But, discussion is the course of action.  if we choose not to close topics everybody's point will get across.

And we need everybody's point.

Ok Well, fine if this is read only and I come across something wherre I would like to have it clarified as now: does the quran say pray from dusk until night? i will just go away unsatisified.

[patricia]

Furthermore, I also think that I could NEVER take advantage of Allah's infinite mercy by flouting His Law and following some imam's law because it suits me more and then comfort myself by thinking, "no problem, Allah is very forgiving and He will forgive me."   Allah has stated in His Message that forgiveness is for those who err unknowingly or through ignorance, then repent and don't repeat the same violation.  But what most Muslims are doing regarding this matter (and many others too) is different.  They know what time the Quran mentions for ending the day's fast, yet, even if you show them the Quranic evidences they turn away and obstinately break their fast 30 to 40 minutes earlier.  First, it's the practical violation.   Second, it's the stubborn intention of being loyal to their imams and ignoring the command of Allah.  If I did this, my guilty conscience would finish me

This is also exactly what the christians do?

I guess this is the Shantan's way of getting the people to deviate from the way of Allah.   Because Allah preserved his Quran the shantan found a way to get around that.  hadith.

I agree it is as plain as the nose on their face. 

But, allah is forgiving.  And he does say it both way in Quran.  That he over look lots.  And also that he only forgives what is unintentional.

Just as he says he forgives all sins and he says he does not forgive one.  It is the situation and it is up to Allah.

He also says for us to be most softer towards our muslim brothers and sisters.

So I give them a bit of doubt.    There are big, big, sins and their ar esmaller sins.

You would think that after the sun has gone down and they break the fast allah will look over it a bit. I mean after all, they did fast.  They did believe in One God.

However, you are right. We do not know Allah's thoughts.  It is completely up to him.

I stick alone mostly.  Because that way I can worship (break fast after dark) as Quran says to worship.

Not one person close to me does the same.

[Thinker_Truth_Seeker]

Ufff!  what a quarrelsome person.  Seems like another Jon Andy Mac. 

Sister Zainab or Sister Heba, just kick them off.  They come to other peoples' websites and then want to impose their own rules, fight, insult and make a scene and spoil the serene atmosphere of this nice place.  The fact is they aren't even capable of understanding 80% of the info we've put up. 

[Zeynab]

lol,     not to worry br. PT.    You know very well, I've taken care of a few more crummy ones than this.  But before showing them the way out, I wish to respond in full to the  ignorant stuff they babble to vent their frustration.   

[Thinker_Truth_Seeker]

BTW, Sister Rose has done a wonderful job.  I think Br. AOH had also given similar references in his article on this topic at Quranic path.  But Sister's one is more elaborate and carefully analysed. 

Thank u very much sister Rose.  This one should be sent around or put it up in the blog too, sister Zainab.

[Zeynab]

Yeah right.  Br. AOH's article was on the same lines exactly, but this one is more detailed.

[Zeynab]

Patricia,

As-salaam Alaikum.

But, allah is forgiving.  And he does say it both way in Quran.  That he over look lots.  And also that he only forgives what is unintentional.
Just as he says he forgives all sins and he says he does not forgive one.  It is the situation and it is up to Allah.

Yes Allah Almighty forgives much.  What we mean is, this shouldn't be used as an excuse by us to become lax, if we can help it.  Breaking one's fast dot at sunset is intentional, not unintentional.  Rather, it's obstinacy and a violation of a given rule in the Quran that's been made into a system according to man-made laws, ignoring the Divine Law.  In my opinion it's a clear transgression.  Whether or not He forgives those guilty of it is upto Him, but I don't want to take any chances when I know very well that it's a transgression.  So much on this.  

Does the Quran not say to keep praying from dusk until night?

No, the Quran does not mention to pray specifically from dusk to night about Ramadan prayers.   I thought you already knew such simple Quranic contents.  Obviously you don't.

" .. eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall and touch them not, but be at your devotions in the mosques. These are the limits imposed by Allah, .."  (2:187)

The Quran says that during Ramadan one must be busy with one's prayers, meaning there should be extra prayers during Ramadan i.e. Nafl prayers in addition to the five obligatory prayers of course.  That's what the underlined portion in the above verse refers to.  How you arrange those extra timings for prayers is upto you.  Even Tarawi is not mentioned in the Quran nor is its timing mentioned.  But Tarawi is wonderful because like I said, it's upto the people to choose the timings for extra worship in accordance with their schedule.  Other forms of worship can also be included from reference to the above verse such as reading & reciting the Quran, zikr and charity.  One can decide the timings for Nafl prayers.  But the time for breaking the fast (Iftar) cannot be decided by ourselves nor by the Hadith.  That's because it has already been decided and mentioned by Allah, The Exalted.

But this has nothing to do with the topic put up by Rose.

forums that demand off topics will be closed. And the silliness goes on and on.
Of course things will get off topic. But, discussion is the course of action.  if we choose not to close topics everybody's point will get across.

Again, as usual, the silly words are popping out from nowhere else but your own mouth like smoke from a chimney!

Of course we are very particular about sticking to the topic of the subject.  Why shouldn't we be?  If a thread goes out of topic, the participants are either reminded about it or the thread is closed if nothing relevant  is left for discussion or if it's getting hostile. SURE we don't want members to act combative, nor propagate contents that are not in conformity with the Quran, nor to insult us in the name of "discussion."  If these aren't the issue and yet the thread is going out of topic, they are told to start a new thread.  Once when you went off topic, I closed the thread giving you the choice to start a new topic but you didn't.  Yet you complain disrespectfully indulging in name calling and labelling my forum rule as "silly."  Bravo Patricia!  How graciously you argue!!  You obviously don't know how to run a forum nor a website and so you find these rules irksome.  That's your problem.   But no forum or website admin will agree to mess up their site to appease disorganized members like yourself and in the process inconvenience methodical readers who visit genuinely to seek knowledge.  

Also, not carefully separating topics subject-wise makes it very difficult for our regular guest readers to use our search engine to locate the topics they are looking for.  You might not be interested in searching .. in fact you mentioned to that affect in the past.  But those tons of guests who keep coming by regularly are not lazy like you and they do use our forum search engine.

Discussion or communication boosts knowledge if it gets across only if it's based on proper study and research .. at least to a sufficient extent.  Communication based on muddled up information of whatever one is talking about as you do is hardly of any benefit to anyone.  One first needs to learn rationally to make communication sensible and fruitful.    

We have outlined everything very, very clearly at our Forum Rules board.  Those allowed to become members are approved on the assumption that they have thoroughly read the rules.  Yet if they don't, they are simply not fulfilling their responsibilities.

Truth is. I did not get an answer.  I see what you read instead of my question

I have no idea what the hell you are scowling and frowning about.  You apparently have issues.  You need professional help.  

So if you want read only then maybe you should have selected a web site for read only purposes.

Excuse me?  If we ever need your suggestion on how to run our forum we'll ask for it.  Right now we don't.  Thank you.  This is specifically a READ ONLY FORUM.  We started with the intent of never having registered members.  This has been mentioned in our introduction.  Didn't you read it?  Later on we mutually decided to approve very few selected requests, reasons for which are subjective.  We have more than 300 members pending approval right now as I write to you.  But this place is not about memberships.  MV doesn't run a popularity contest neither is it a venue for angry debates.  Our goal is only to put up our findings in accordance and with references to Quranic information.  We don't want antagonistic arguments labelled as "discussions" or "free speech" from users like yourself and neither are we interested to know how "intelligent" anyone is.  If the intelligent ones are so eager to hop in and show off their intelligence, they should start their own forums or websites and make their own rules.  

The way I am seeing this is you just want someone who posts after your post....oh! thank u so much for this enlightening information.

The way you are seeing this is wrong, as usual.  This place isn't Free Minds or any other such place.  How many times do I have to say that to you folks who come in without first reading about us carefully?  MV is run by a group of team members only, just like a website.  The only difference is that it's in the format of a forum, not a regular website or weblog or blog.  

Next point .. On what basis do people select a team, and on what basis did I select my team? It's selected on grounds of having a group of like minded people, researching and presenting their write-ups, sometimes in consultation with each other but mostly independently.   Thus, we have a great time exchanging info, knowledge and we discuss amicably.   I am simply a member of my team.  We are all colleagues & friends here.  No one is anyone's boss. We ask questions from each other with affection & respect like intelligent and civilized friends.  We share knowledge, discuss it amicably and utilize it to enhance our insight.  We aren't interested in bragging our genius. We have no desire to impose or impress one another how "intelligent" each one is.  It's a place for reading and learning and talking, not for showing one's superiority over another.  And yes, it has helped us to enlighten ourselves a lot!  You bet!!  This is our strategy here, a very unique one indeed which many have liked, some have gotten jealous.  If you disagree, do so and hurl your insults by all means.  None of us could care a rat's tail.   

How else are we supposed to reply to each other if not with thanks for enlightenment? Quarrel like you at every step and call that being "intelligent" communication necessary for knowledge?  Obviously you are different and you have little or no understanding of human psychology.  I can never have fun learning if I'm constantly under the pressure of belligerent arguments popping up any time. 

What a weird taunt you have put up that contains little or no reflections of "intelligence." 

I am quite intelligent.

So?  what the heck am I supposed to do about that?  and neither do I care.  Yet the "intelligent" person knows so little about the Quranic contents and even makes rude blunders like referring to our posts as "word of mouth."  What a horrible insult, belittling our hard work.  And what a "gracious" way for "intelligent" Patricia to argue!  Word of mouth implies gossip.  Then why do you keep coming here only to read "word of mouth" posts?    But you know what?  I thought you had already left.  The last time we spoke when you claimed that the Quran says women are superior to men, which it does NOT, I even recall saying goodbye to you.  You actually hinted earlier three or four times (sulking for some unknown reason) that you want to leave .. probably  because you got tired waiting to be called "intelligent" and no one bothered because you just didn't stand out to be called one.  But each time you hinted on quitting, a day or two later you again jumped in only to fight, frustrated and cranky, with closing comments containing needless insulting insinuations.
  
Definitely Allah said in the Quran that we must debate in a civilized manner, not taunt or belittle the hard work of others simply because your goal is only to brag about the myth of your own "intelligence."   You obviously need to stop pelting stones from a glasshouse and learn the importance of debating graciously more than anyone else.  You are so quick to say you are intelligent.  So, what do you think we are .. a bunch of nitwits?  No, we aren't, and we are very quick to figure out who is who.  You are clearly not here to discuss.  You have thus far neither discussed nor contributed anything of significance.  In fact you haven't even put up a single independent  post on any topic at all.   But you sure have slighted us and bragged about yourself for nothing.

Demand all you want.  You can demand I leave. If fact, this is only going to get worse. I see that.  And you know I am almost gone anyway.

Nah!  this time I'm not going to trust you.  I know you will jump in again because you are always itching to fight and argue as apparently you have nothing much to do.  But we have plenty to take care of including our nice forum that's attracting so many readers.  Our forum stats tells it all.  We neither have the time nor the inclination to go through your useless bickerings day after day.   I will delete you myself this time. Thanks for making a perfect nuisance of yourself.


P.S.  Our forum "going to get worse" without you?   This would qualify as the best joke of the 3rd millennium!!

[Heba]

Great!  stay out ..

[Ruhi_Rose]

However, you mentioned the timed prayer is from sunset until night so we have that long to get the prayer in.  I remember reading once, cannot remember the verse at the moment, to start the prayer at sunset and keep going until night.

So I had the idea the prayer should last that long.

Does the Quran not say to keep praying from dusk until night?

You are getting confused and mixing things up because you are not focused on the topic.   

What I mentioned as in Verse 17:78 (quoted) is the timing for the Maghrib prayer.  Maghrib means sunset time or dhulook as-shams, when the sun goes down.  This is one of the five obligatory prayers to be offered everyday of every month, not just during Ramadan.  The Quran does not say to keep praying from dusk until night.  But what it says and means is to offer prayers between the time the sun goes down until the dark of the night.  That's exactly how long the time for Maghrib prayer lasts.  For example, if Maghrib or sunset time is at 7.00 in the evening, by 7.40 or 7.45 it's completely dark with no redness in the sky either.  This means the time for Maghrib prayer is over .. and this is the right time for breaking the fast because it's dark (or "leil" as in Arabic) by now.  Instead what most people are doing (mostly sunnis) is they begin eating as soon as the sunset time begins on their prayer calendar (and this is the time when the adhan is given for the call of Maghrib prayers) when it's still very bright.  One can even drive one's car at this time without putting on the headlights.  It's not night or leil at all.  Thus, the faithfuls intentionally break their fast at least 40 minutes prior to the given time.  No matter how many evidences you produce from the Quran, the sunnis will reject it as a gesture of loyalty to their imams and as a sign of stubbornness to go against the shiia practice.  Members of the shiia sect (which is much smaller than the sunni sect) do break their fast after Maghrib when it's dark.  This is the correct method.

The Maghrib prayer consists of 5 rakahs .. 3 fard and 2 sunnah.  Along with supplications at the end, it takes approximately 10 to 15 minutes in total.  It's not a long prayer at all. 

Fasting is an obligatory form of worship for all adults who are physially and mentally normal.  Breaking every fast 40 (or more) minutes earlier every day is a sign of intentional disobedience.   Will Allah punish them or not?  I don't know.  It's entirely upto Him.  But needless to say, that's hardly the right argument nor a proper excuse to violate Allah's law. 

I absolutely understand Zainab's view point of trying to stay focused on the topic.  A little bit of wavering off-topic in discussions is fine which happens all the time.  But if the topic is about Iftar time and you get into the details of Maghrib prayer time, these are 2 different aspects and it will give rise to confusion definitely.  

[Zeynab]

Thank u for this clarification sister Rose.  When this person asked "does the Quran not say to keep praying from dusk until night?"  I thought she was referring to specific Ramadan prayers because I was thinking of the topic and the topic is about Ramadan and fasting.  You are correct, this simply refers to the Maghrib prayer which is obligatory and it's not a long prayer at all.   I don't know what made her think that it means "to keep praying from dusk to night." 

This former user had such a bad habit of jumping onto a dozen different topics in a single paragraph of a specific thread, spreading utter confusion through & through and yet she just wouldn't start a new topic.  Strange!!