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Omar bin Khattab (ra) supported QURAN ALONE, no Hadith


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Author Topic: Omar bin Khattab (ra) supported QURAN ALONE, no Hadith  (Read 3676 times)
Heba E. Husseyn
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« on: September 21, 2011, 09:29:08 am »

If you tell a Sunni that you reject Hadith, they will accuse you of being a "deviant" and some will also call you a "deviant Shiia" even though Shiias are Hadith lovers too.  The only difference being, Shiias and Sunnis follow different sets of Ahadith, though several of their Ahadith are also common. 

Both Sunnis and Shiias have constructed their own myths about Omar bin Khattab, the second Caliph of Islam.  The Shiias have painted him as a man who didn't respect the Prophet (S), disliked the Prophet's family and was friendly with the Prophet's enemies.  The Sunnis have portrayed him as a hot tempered person who scared the life out of his contemporaries.  Needless to say, both tales are complete NONSENSE.  Omar was a very decent and civilized man who respected the Prophet (S) and his family, and cared deeply for justice and fair play.  He might have had certain minor faults as no human being is perfect, but that's about all.

In the Sunni Hadith collection you will find tons of rubbish Ahadith mentioning about Omar .. many of them narrated by the infamous Abu Huraira, a man whom Omar bin Khattab hated from the pit of his heart .... just as we do Smiley  Alhumdulilah.  Now, here's the irony.  The Sunnis are Hadith fans.  They also pose to be fans of Omar bin Khattab, but unlike Omar, the Sunnis love the despicable Hadith.  Coming to the stupidity of the Shiias .. Omar bin Khattab's efforts to abolish Hadith (which largely propagates falsehoods) was a very positive move on his part.  Yet the Shiias have misinterpreted it as his "dislike and disrespect for the Prophet and his family."  The commonality between the Sunnis and Shiias is that they have both blindly and pathetically refused to acknowledge that the Hadith is a FALSE institution and a needless annexation rejected by the conscientious believers who were closest to the Prophet (S).


Let us read a few excerpts from some of the world's noted historians and see what their findings are concerning Omar bin Khattab's thoughts on Hadith.

Muhammad Husayn Haykal
QUOTE:
Umar ibn al-Khattab once tried to deal with the problem of committing the Hadith to writing. The companions of the Prophet whom he consulted, encouraged him, but he was not quite sure whether he should proceed. One day, moved by God's inspiration, he made up his mind and announced: "I wanted to have the traditions of the Prophet written down, but I fear that the Book of God might be encroached upon. Hence I shall not permit this to happen." He, therefore, changed his mind and instructed the Muslims throughout the provinces: "Whoever has a document bearing a prophetic tradition, shall destroy it."

The Hadith, therefore, continued to be transmitted orally and was not collected and written down until the period of al-Mamun. (The Life of Muhammad, Cairo, 1935)
UNQUOTE:


The next piece on the rejection of Hadith by Omar bin Khattab is by Sunni historian Mohamad Hamidullah.  It's interesting to note that though Hamidullah is a pro-Hadith historian and a Hadith follower himself, yet he has plainly stated that Caliph Omar did NOT agree with the idea of preserving the Hadith.  Like a typical Hadithist, Hamidullah is clearly not happy with Caliph Omar's decision.  But that's not the point.   The important thing is that Omar bin Khattab strongly felt that Hadith was wrong just as any sincere believer would. 

Dr. Mohammad Hamidullah
QUOTE:
Abu-Dhahabi reports:
We learn on the authority of Ma'mar ibn Rashid, that during his caliphate, Umar once consulted the companions of the Prophet on the subject of codifying the Hadith. Everybody seconded the idea. Yet Umar continued to hesitate and pray to God for a whole month for guidance and enlightenment. Ultimately, he decided not to undertake the task, and said: "Former peoples neglected the Divine Books and concentrated only on the conduct of the prophets; I do not want to set up the possibility of confusion between the Divine Qur’an and the Prophet's Hadith." (Introduction to Islam, Kuwait, pp. 34-35, 1977).
UNQUOTE:


One of the companions whom the Sunni Muslims consider one of the greatest authorities on Hadith, was Abu Hurayra. He was ever ready to quote a Hadith. There was never an occasion when recollection did not come to him of something he had heard the Prophet saying or something he had seen him doing. Once Umar asked him:

"O Abu Hurayra! Tell me this. Did the Messenger of God have nothing in the world to do except to whisper Hadith in your ears?"

Umar then ordered Abu Hurayra not to narrate any more Hadith.  But Abu Hurayra was a very gregarious and a garrulous man. When Umar gagged him, he felt bottled up. But he was a patient man, and quietly awaited the time when he would be unmuzzled. His opportunity came when Umar was assasinated, and he returned with a vengeance to the business of relating Hadith. Today, the books of Hadith, compiled by Sunni collectors, are brimming with traditions narrated by him.

The following is an excerpt from a Shiia website confirming that Omar bin Khattab did not approve of the Hadith.  You will also observe from the argument of this Shiia author that they consider Hadith to be just as indispensable as the Sunnis and with identical reasons that are discrepant and stupid as ever!

QUOTING THE SHIIA WEBSITE ON OMAR'S REJECTION OF HADITH:
It is perhaps interesting to speculate on Umar's decision in placing the traditions of the Prophet under proscription. Did he believe that the proscription would outlast his own caliphate? There is no way of knowing the answer to this question. But he could not have meant the proscription to be effective only during his own lifetime; he could only have meant it to be everlasting. If so, then did he want to deprive the Muslims of the record of the precepts and precedents of their Prophet forever?

Muhammad Husayn Haykal says from his book that Umar was "moved by God's inspiration" to place the Hadith of the Apostle of God under proscription. This means that Umar's authority to order the suppression of Hadith, was implicit in the "inspiration" of which he was the recipient, and he didn't hesitate to exercise it. In exercising his "inspired" authority, he overrode even the consensus of the companions. Consensus, incidentally, is a very important principle in Sunni jurisprudence. But Umar was right in overriding it. After all the consensus of fallible, earth-bound mortals could never supersede the authority of Umar's "inspiration."
But Umar's ordinance suppressing Hadith leaves one vital question unanswered, viz., is it possible to understand and to practice Islam at all, and to obey the commandments of God embodied in Al-Qur’an al-Majid, without the knowledge and understanding of the sermons, statements, speeches, commands, prohibitions, precedents, examples and explanations of Muhammad Mustafa? Was it, for example, possible for the companions to know, merely by reading Qur’an, how to say the five canonical prayers if Muhammad himself had not taught them? Or, would they have known how much Zakat (poor-tax) to pay, when to pay and whom to pay if they had not seen the Apostle himself paying it?  Without Hadith, Muslims could never understand the ideology of Islam nor could they grasp its practicability.
UNQUOTE:


Now let us read an excerpt from the book of Austrian born Sunni translator of the Quran, Muhammad Asad.   Asad's love for the Hadith has made him flatly accuse the second righteous Caliph of Islam, Omar bin Khattab, being on a "head-on collusion course" with the Quran.  No wonder, like all our so-called scholars, Asad too has grossly misinterpreted several Quranic verses as commandments for following the Hadith, the sort of wrong and ignorant perception we have already discussed in our forum many times.  As you read the following excerpt from Asad's book, Islam At The Crossroads, you will realize what an ardent admirer he is of the Hadith.  Since this man has translated the Quran into English,  you can also imagine how greatly his translations would be influenced by the Hadith.  Anyhow, the purpose again is to expose that Caliph Omar rejected the Hadith.  Interestingly, Asad admits that Sunnis decided to disobey the orders of Omar despite their love and respect for him by continuing to follow the Hadith.  Asad also claims that the Quran is not meant to be used "independently."  May Allah Almighty grant guidance to this blind and cheeky so-called scholar.

Muhammad Asad
QUOTE:
The Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad is, (therefore) next to Qur’an, the second source of Islamic law of social and personal behavior. In fact we must regard the Sunnah as the only valid explanation of the Qur’anic teachings and the only means to avoid dissension concerning their interpretation and adaptation to practical use. Many verses of the Qur’an have allegorical meaning and could be understood in different ways unless there was some definite system of interpretation. And there are, furthermore, many items of practical importance not explicitly dealt with by the Qur’an. The spirit prevailing in the Holy Book is, to be sure, uniform throughout; but to deduce from it the practical attitude which we have to adopt is not, in every case, an easy matter. So long as we believe that this Book is the word of God, perfect in form and purpose, the only logical conclusion is that it never was intended to be used independently of the personal guidance of the Prophet which is embodied in the system of Sunnah.
UNQUOTE:


Please continue reading this excerpt as follows.  Muhammad Asad has quoted the following verses of the Quran in which he thinks that the underlined parts of the verses  refer to the Hadith of Bukhari & co.  Only Allah knows how this senseless scholar lost his mind to the extent that he does not even hesitate insulting the Book of Allah by thinking it to be dependent on a man-written literature which has more holes in it than a bar of swiss cheese!

Kindly note:  The underlined parts of the following verses which Asad wrongly thinks refer to the Hadith actually refer to the Noble Quran itself.  That's because, obedience to the Prophet (S) is subject to the Prophet's obedience to the Noble Quran.  And because the Prophet (S)  made all his decisions based on the commandments of the Quran with excessive care, that is the reason why Allah Almighty commands the people to follow the Prophet.  Allah refers to the Prophet's conduct as a beautiful pattern because the Prophet's conduct followed the Quran only, not Bukhari & co. which is full violations of the Quran. Allah has strictly commanded us NOT to follow any other book except the Quran. “And (He commandeth you, saying) : This is My straight path, so follow it  Follow not other ways, lest ye be parted from His way: This hath He ordained for you, that ye may ward off (evil)”  [6:153]. Simple as it is to understand, this very important fact has completely passed over Asad's head.


Muhammad Asad
QUOTE:
The Apostle's statements and his actions were a detailed interpretation and application of the principles of the Book of God. That Book has repeatedly and emphatically called upon the Muslims to obey him and to follow him, as per the following verses:

Say: if ye do love God, follow me: God will love you and forgive your sins; for God is oft-forgiving, most Merciful. (Chapter 3; verse 31)

Those are limits set by God: those who obey God and His Apostle, will be admitted to the Gardens with Rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (forever) and that will be the supreme achievement. (Chapter 4: verse 13)

O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey His Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. if ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and his apostle... (Chapter4: verse 59)

We sent an Apostle but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of God. (Chapter 4: verse 64)

But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. (Chapter 4: verse 65)

He who obeys the Apostle, obeys God. (Chapter4: verse 80)

Obey God and His Apostle, if ye do believe. (Chapter 8: verse 1)

It is such as obey God and His Apostle, and fear God and do right, that will win (in the end). (Chapter 24: verse 52)

Ye have indeed in the Apostle of God a beautiful pattern of conduct for everyone whose hope is in God and the final day, and who engages much in remembering God. (Chapter 33: verse 21)

O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and make not vain your deeds. (Chapter 47: verse 33)

Whatever the Messenger assigns to you, take it, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you, and fear God. (Chapter 59: verse 7)

From the foregoing verses, it is clear that Umar's ban on Hadith was in a head-on collision course with the commandments of Al-Qur’an al-Majid. Quran as the explicit Word of God, and Hadith as the explicit word of His Last Messenger, form one integral whole, each elucidating, amplifying and illuminating the other. Sunni jurists perhaps did not want to set themselves at odds with Umar but they also realized that there was no way for them to dispense with Hadith, and still call themselves Muslims, and that his ban (on Hadith) could not coexist with Islam. They, therefore, discreetly tiptoed around the issue. "Let the Hadith of our Prophet be free of bans," was their tacit consensus even if such a reorientation of thought was painful to some of them, and they decided to address themselves to the most vital task of collecting, collating, and preserving, for themselves and for posterity the record of the sayings and the deeds of Muhammad Mustafa, their Guide and Leader in this world and in the world to come.
UNQUOTE:
 

Conclusion

Even though the Hadith literature contains several narrations claimed to be of Abu Bakr Siddiq and Omar bin Khattab in addition to those claimed to be of the Prophet (S), almost all of those narrations are a pack of forged phoneys written much after the passing away of them.

Both Sunnis and Shiias acknowledge that the Caliphs who immediately succeeded the Prophet (S) rejected the idea of retaining the Ahadith and considered it improper.   Still more importantly, there are Hadith narrations which themselves mention that the Prophet (S) firmly disallowed the writing of his words.  Most importantly, both Sunnis and Shiias are aware that the Noble Quran is independent and prohibits us from following any other path of guidance other than the Quran only.  Yet, despite knowing every essential fact, the mainstream Muslims of today prefer to stay on denial and stubbornly follow the offensive Ahadith at the orders of their imams and "scholars" which contradicts and insults the Noble Quran and the Prophet (S).  In other words, the mainstream Muslims have preferred the commandment of their imams by rejecting the command of Allah, The Exalted.
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 10:30:43 am »

Thanks sister Heba.  You have really compiled and prepared this piece well.  It leaves no doubt that Omar bin al-Khattab was a Quran alone Muslim just like all those who were close to the Prophet (S).

I'm especially shocked to read the words of this madman, Asad.  He's a revert .. reverted to Islam from Christianity.  You will find many such reverts very comfortable with Hadith because it makes them feel 'at home.'  It reminds them of the altered versions of the Bibles and the sort of stuff they contain..  They feel that becoming a Muslim is only a continuation of being a Christian.  Of course, there are also several reverts who don't accept Hadith because they find it just as suffocating & illogical as the contents of the altered Bibles.  But unfortunately, just as majority among born Muslims are Hadithers, similarly majority among revert Muslims are also Hadithers.  That's what I've observed so far.  As Allah Almighty has already referred in the Quran, truth always has a smaller earthly following than falsehood.  This is a hard evidence of recognizing truth and discarding falsehood.
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2011, 03:24:41 am »

Well done Omar bin al-Khattab.  I love you!

And after reading the excerpt written by Muhammad Asad, everyone must know that he is not a reliable translator at all and therefore not trust his English translations. 
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2011, 03:26:40 am »

But unfortunately, just as majority among born Muslims are Hadithers, similarly majority among revert Muslims are also Hadithers.  That's what I've observed so far.  As Allah Almighty has already referred in the Quran, truth always has a smaller earthly following than falsehood.  This is a hard evidence of recognizing truth and discarding falsehood.


Exactly, very correct sister Zeynab.
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2011, 03:32:01 am »

hummm ,, that's why I've always said, both Sunnis and Shiias have gone nuts in their own different ways.  The Sunni theory being so full of contradictions of their own claims that they have no other choice but to ignore their contradictions and obstinately follow falsehood.  And the Shiias perpetually misconstrue something positive as negative and vice-versa.  Omar's rejection of Hadith being brilliant is being turned upside down by the Shiias, and the Sunnis won't even talk about it with sheer embarrassment as it exposes their own mistake still more vividly for following the Hadith.
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 06:39:22 am »

 salamem


uff M Asad crazy man , he was corrupt thinker i am not impressed by his unreliable translation he was born in a Jewish family ?

Excectly Mashallah Sis heba beautiful ! fair enough , great thread! Jazak Allah Khair for sharing , am surprised  Shocked caliphs omar's temperament also designed by hadith i often thought there is something fishy how is it possible  the person who lived in the company of the beloved Prophet (pbuh) who himself (pbuh) was, kind hearted ,patience men so how can be ? the first four rightly guided caliphs or anyone of those closest companions who truly followed  the Prophet's Muhammad's(pbuh) foot steps hot tempered or disrespectful  ? so as Omar bin khattab ! What a great man he was May Allah be pleased with him . Great efforts of chaliph omar bin al- khattab (r.a ) the lesson to be learned is to always place the Quran above the hadith the action of Omar (ra) demonstrates there is nothing above than Quran , hadith can Not be compared with the Quran all references given crystal clear proof that omar was strict on this issue of transmission of hadith it was crime to possess any hadith in the time of omar(r.a) . Allah 's believer and prophet Muhammad's follower, Follow Quran Alone  No doubt  first four righteous caliphs were great ,pious believers and Quran alone followers even till the end of the first four khilafat's/caliphates there is no trace of any hadith being collected by the caliphs themselves or being collected under their supervision.The Quran is the only book which is certainly true because Allah took its safety upon Himself. Allah's Messenger put the words of the Quran into writing and handed it over safely to the community after he completely satisfied himself about its authenticity .Allah stated in the Noble Quran !!

This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam .. 5:3 .

Does Quran supports the requirement of hadith ? No absolutely not .At the time Allah states that there was no recorded ahadith's, there was no sahih bukhari , muslim ,dawud , tirmidhi , ibn majah or ahmad etc In other word the religion of Islam was complete and perfect with out those uncountable ahadith's that were recorded later, some even handful  of them prophet (pbuh) may said but rest was fabricated and lied on the prophet (pbuh).Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never allowed anyone to write down his(pbuh) sayings during his life time and Prophet 's companions four rightly guided caliphs understood that after him and followed that and never dared to break his orders  but enemies of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) , enemies of islam have made these books equal to, even higher than the Quran ! Utter destruction  Sad  shia ,sunni both are deviated into their own misguided sects and both blindly running after their crazy imam's those who left poisonous ,false stories to abuse each other or abuse chalips  Angry nuts ummah defend lair imams and their crap , trash literature full of exaggeration , contradict the Quran and contradict the common sense as well rather holding on one book The Noble Quran , one sect , one religion ,religion of all prophets' religion of ibrahim (pbuh) .In the matter of disrespecting chalips i am very upset with shia's. I agree also with u , U have rightly put up sis sunnis are not less than shia in craze of idolizing one chalip's ,sunni collection of false hadith have made serious controversy against omar (r.a) quoting related hadith u mentioned above !! it's in the authority of hadith Tirmidhi  sunni's mostly qoute this hadith to shai's by arresting that chalip omar was strong candidate of prophethood , i mean how ? it's Sounds weired , especially since no human has power or right to vote in who can be a next prophet, not even any prophets ,it's Alone Allah's decision but sadly without any shame or fear sunni's highlight this fabricated lie  it's is not right in fact equal to sinful act to compare companions of Prophet (pbuh) with the Almighty Allah's Great Messengers and Prophet's it is a very serious deviation from the right path of Islam and law of Allah.
 

Sayyidna Uqbah ibn Aamir (Radhi Allah) reported that Allah’s Messenger (salallaho alaihi wasalam) said: If there were to be a Prophet after me then he would be Umar ibn al-Khattab

Reference

[Tirimdhi Hadith No. 3706, Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal Hadith No. 17410]-In Tirimdhi It is declared as Hassan


Today We can see Following of hadith culture presenting frustrated ,hopeless ummah they increasing their own confusion , making themselves sick i wish ummah understood peace of heart and mind lies only in Quran Not in falsehood.
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 11:46:14 am »

Walaikum Salaam dear Sister Muslima.  Many thanks for your wise comments.  Yes exactly, the whole system is in a mess.  Complete mess!  And I too don't trust the translations of Muhammad Asad.  He is much the same as Yusuf Ali.

It's true that both Sunnis and Shiias are lost in their own deviations.  But I have to say that at least the Shiias behave in a more civilized manner.  At least they are cool enough to agree to disagree.  But the Sunnis are really rabid and persistent.  An example of this is what I'm experiencing presently.  Since the last one week Sister Heba, Brother PT and me have really been having a hard time at my blog, Zainab's Lounge.  This blog is basically an extension of this forum.   A copy of the important posts we put up here are also posted there.   But the collection of information here is much larger.  A group of hardline Hadith-following Sunnis (very close to Salafist mentality) jumped into the blog 6 or 7 days ago.  They started by supporting a false hadith by Abu Huraira and then began attacking other posts.  We are not posting their comments any more, have been deleting them since the last 4 days.  But they persistently keep posting, and talking nonsense, only insulting and name-calling.  They have nothing more to say.  It's what we would call vandalism.  I have also had disagreements with Shiias, but they never behave like this.  So I ask myself, why are Sunnis like this?  No manners, no shame, no fear of Allah .. nothing!

Secondly, though I totally disagree with Shiias when they make stories and exaggerate about their 12 imams just as the Sunnis make stories about "sahabas."  The only 4 true sahabas were the 4 righteous Caliphs.  But according to the Sunnis every 'Tom, Jane and Harry' is supposed to be a 'sahabah.'  And of course, we know very well that all those hadith narrators whom the Sunnis call sahabas were not "sahabas," they had probably never even seen the Prophet (sw).  They were complete idlers & loafers.  The sort of cheap & degraded ahadith they have narrated, contradicting the Quran and defaming our Prophet (sw), shows their low mentality and bad intentions.  In the case of the Shiias, their 12 imams definitely were not idlers like Abu Huraira etc.  The 12 imams came from good families, the family of the descendents of the Prophet (sw).  They were disciplined and conscientious men.  For that, much greater credit must go to the Shiias.  As I said, the Shiias have also come up with many unacceptable exaggerations similar to the Sunnis,  yet at least they look upon respectable and pious imams as their leaders and role models.  But the role models of the Sunnis are themselves corrupt thieves and vagabonds, therefore, no wonder the Sunnis are much more backward compared to the Shiias, intellectually and politically.  This backwardness has also made the Sunnis leaders very jealous, and in their Friday khutbas they incite the Sunni masses to hate the Shiias by saying all kinds of false and offensive things. This attitude is really intolerable.  The Shiias don't behave this way.   I've been watching & monitoring both of them.   Not all, but many Shiias are keen to build unity with the Sunnis.  But the Sunnis just won't hear of it.  They seem to be enjoying their ignorance.

So if someone asks me, I will say, yes both of them have deviated.  But the Shiias have deviated much less.  The condition of the Sunnis is much worse.  Really sad Sad

Since yesterday the Salafists began attacking all our political posts in the blog written on the Syrian war.  Just because we support Syria, they started coming and trashing it with loud hostility only because Syria's leader is a Shiia Muslim.  The Sunni imams have taught them to hate, hate and hate.  There is no such thing as love and unity in their teachings.  Such behavior is really detestable.  Even lizards and roaches act more rational than many of these Sunni idiots.  Yesterday, br. PT, sis Heba and me had to block comments from all our political posts on Syria otherwise they keep posting insulting comments and fill up the moderation page which we have to delete, wasting our time.  By blocking all comments, even the good visitors will be deprived from posting but we have no other choice.  It's all because of these Salafist kufar and munafiqs.  May the curse of Allah be upon them.
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 07:13:20 pm »

U are very welcomed my dear sis Zeynab okay I will check blog also inshallah Smiley

Oh sis that's sad salafist attacked ur blog well yes i too supports Syria i can imagine they are so mean but not surprising because they can't bear the truth ,thats all sunni's can do increase in suicide bomb attacks on Shia ?  sunni's thinks they would rise in such way ? it is hypocritical of Sunni's and There is no doubt these attacks fuel sectarian slaughter Sunni politicians and religious leaders giving a green light to these actions in syria Sunni say we have the whole Arab world behind us is that all  ?  inhuman thought view ,butcher  Sad sadly Sectarian conflict is going to get worse don't know how Syria goes in the next several years
 Cry

  "according to the Sunnis every 'Tom, Jane and Harry' is supposed to be a ' sahabah "

 Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup

yes i am completely agree with u, this fiction chain of sahaba 's is beyond understanding only first four rightly guided caliphs ,who pass on the true message of Quran with honesty and their job has been done ,all believers only required to do just hold divine book the Noble Quran that 's it we are not here to idolize or worship any one beside Allah, prophet's ( pbuh) character authentic sunnah is safely written in Quran alhamdulillah

here again i am in agreement with u sis ,i don't remember but i did mentioned my view on the same thing in one of mv post . shia's are civilized i have experience shia imams , shia friend also they have much more capacity and courtesy ,manners of debate and dialogue  it's my personal opinion and observation also .I too have very bad exprience with big mouth sunni's i must say sunnis are trained only to begin illustrated debate, it's their job to move and misguide nation to follow Hadith.shia let u go with ur opinion and disagreement but sunni they are bully , they never leave u with disagreement rather they have death penalty for munkireen-e-hadith i am against suuni imams , ulma's  i found them extremely disappointing and narrow minded. Well said at least shia's looking forward  for pious leader but honestly if shia fixed their one lost screw about self made story of imam mahdi and i think few of them have already fixed it ,they are really good and broad minded leaders which i really like in shia 's except their hadith collection which equally false as sunni collection. True shia's are less divided and Sunni differed in each community sunni's are incurable.. Sad
Inshallah  Allah  will deal with them .
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 07:56:08 pm »

Yes sister, this is exactly what I meant.  The Shiias have better manners, they are better educated and thus better behaved.  For that reason they let go an argument even if you disagree with them totally.  But the Sunnis are bullies .. that's the right word you used.  They are rude and highly intolerant bullies, very persistent .. they can go on and on .. and most appalling of all, they never stick to the topic.  Their "discussion" is only personal insults, taunts and abuses.  Most of all they get angry if you criticize Hadith.  However much a Hadith violates the Quran or insults the Prophet, they don't care.  They will go on blindly supporting the hadith narrators and compilers.  I won't even ask Allah to forgive them.  I hope Allah does not forgive such ones.  They don't deserve His forgiveness.   
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2013, 07:35:35 am »

oh yes they usually use this tricks to drag the topic from east to west,yes exactly that's their problem to them purpose of debate and discussion only is to prolong the issue without gaining good knowledge time killer's  Angry just repeat installed off topic false hadith's and so called scholars phrases at maximum quote u fatwa LOL  their skulls are filled up with muck  Angry, They claim but actually do not know the Prophet's Personality , they are zero in following of  Quran and Quranic sunnah..never mind it is sickness of their hearts ,Allah is watching them,He will soon decide Haq and Baatil Inshallah.

Salam & peace my sister May Allah bless u and protect u ameen Smiley
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111

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