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The term "wine" in the Noble Quran


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Author Topic: The term "wine" in the Noble Quran  (Read 319 times)
Zeynab
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« on: October 10, 2011, 12:57:35 am »

 BismEm


Let me quote a discussion thread between me and an elderly so-called Muslim woman at  Facebook to show you how people misunderstand the Noble Quran partly through inaccurate translations but mostly due to their own infinite ignorance, which shows no signs of improving even in their old age.

It's an ancient blunder of unthinking minds to presume that the word "wine" used in the Noble Quran for a drink served in Paradise is the same alcoholic drink consumed on earth.  Though it's very simple to reflect and understand the Truth, this sort of ignorance goes so deep that it's not easy to make these folks understand their folly.  Obviously, if people let go of their rationale and make no efforts to grab and comprehend the Truth, Allah Almighty lets them wander blindly in their contumacy and they only keep shifting from one block of darkness to another.

I'm quoting the entire thread between that person and myself for the information of our readers so that they understand the truth and never get confused like this misguided person.  I will only mention the first letter of her name with to protect her identity which is "T."

Here's how it got started. The former admin of Prayer Circle (Risal-e-Nur), who is no longer running that group but is communicating through his personal profile, posted the following verses from Surah Al-Insan.  I don't know which translation he is using but it's not Pickthall's.

"And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient. Reclining on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold, (as in Paradise there is no sun and no moon). The shade will be close upon them, and bunches of fruit will hang low within their reach. Vessels of silver and cups of crystal will be passed around amongst them, crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure of them according to their wishes. They will be given a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabeel, and a fountain called Salsabeel. Around them will (serve) boys of perpetual youth. If you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls. When you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a Great Dominion. Their garments will be of fine green silk and gold embroidery. They will be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord will give them a pure drink." [76:12-21]

T's response.

T: "eveything sounds lovely but, why wld we be offered 'CUPS OF WINE?' Especially when Muslims are strongly forbidden from drinking wine on Earth?? And why is this emphisis on 'BOYS OF PERPECTUAL YOUTH?'

My reply to T.

Me:  Earthly concepts differ vastly from the ones in Paradise.

The "wine" as mentioned of being given to drink in Paradise will not be the kind of intoxicating drink one would assume according to earthly notions. It will simply be refreshing and soothing, a non-alcoholic substance as clarified in the following verses:

"There they pass from hand to hand a cup wherein is neither vanity nor cause of sin." (52:23)

"They are given to drink of a pure wine, sealed,
Whose seal is musk. For this let (all) those strive who strive for bliss" (83:25 & 26)


Furthermore, translations differ greatly too. The words in brackets are not the translations of original Quranic words, instead such words are added by the translator in an attempt to elucidate the verse better. In original verse 76:17, the Quran does not mention "wine" as mentioned in bracket in the translation of Verse 76:17 quoted on top.  The most accurate translations are by Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall. He has translated this verse without using his own expression in bracket in v.76:17. And he uses the term "water" in v.76:18. I quote below: This is far more correct and closer to the original.

"There are they watered with a cup whereof the mixture is of Zanjabil,
(The water of) a spring therein, named Salsabil." (76:17-18).


Similarly, V.76:19 translated in the status here as "Around them will (serve) boys of perpetual youth." doesn't seem too accurate a translation for this verse even though realistically it conforms with the state in Paradise because the Noble Quran conveys the concept that existence in Paradise is ageless. Pickthall translates this verse as:

"There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls." 76:19.

Thus he uses the term "youths" instead of "boys" which could be male or female or both. It refers to the hosts / companions in Paradise.

T: so why call it "wine?" Surely 'wine' is nothing but the intoxicating drink. Furthermore, why should the word 'WINE' be used when Arabic language has very vast vocabulary with tens of words available for just one thing. Hence, there is a vast choice of words available to choose from to fit this 'refreshing drink.' And, Zainab if Earthly concepts differ from that of 'Paradise' why use such concepts when the capacity of our understanding is available to Divine knowledge?"

Me:  First off, by definition "wine" is not simply an alcoholic drink. Symbolic and otherwise, it goes far beyond that. Any lavish, sumptuous or generous situation can be defined by the use of the word "wine" as a gesture of pleasure & happiness but NOT necessarily drunkenness. Secondly, what about non-alcoholic wine? Heard of that? It brings to my mind another concept nurtured by some segments of earthly society concerning earthly alcoholic wine being "good for heart health." Let me connect the two in my explanation. The medical fact of the matter is, it's only the grapes used in earthly wine that's good for the heart, not its alcoholic contents. This has been acknowledged by health experts since quite long and now non-alcoholic wines are available too. Thus, one can reap its health benefits without the downside of alcoholic contents.
http://www.nonalcoholwine.com/.

The use of the word "wine" in the Noble Quran is indeed a great articulation just as this entire Glorious Book is itself.

Thirdly, of course our capacity of understanding is available to Divine Knowledge and much more. But why must we take this as a reason for not telling us the Truth and educating us spiritually about this difference? On the contrary, it's the most perfect reason for letting us know of something as vital as this rather than abandoning us to wander in our state of ignorance. The huge differences between concepts, situations and existence within Paradise and outside of it are ultimate facts pertaining to the Unseen. Only God Almighty is in a position to inform us about them and that's exactly what He is doing. Fourthly, just as everyone's capacity to understand earthly matters isn't the same, similarly their capacity to perceive the truth about the Unseen is not the same either. Some folks might find it tough. Others with the ability of deeper and more profound perception would grasp it much faster and more precisely which would benefit their lives immensely. Without a doubt, every bit of information in the Noble Quran is the most precious piece of wealth. One only needs to be cool enough to reflect upon them rationally.

T:  THANK YOU Zainab! This is what I was waiting for, someone to clearly point out the real symbolic meaning of 'wine' in holy scriptures ie ' That the word 'WINE' is symbolised as the 'HOLY NECTAR OF ENERGY' for the arid body. Hence, whether it is alchoholic or non-alcoholic is out of the argument. All holy Scriptures talk in symbolic language & that's why it's so so important to read all holy books with great understanding of that language or else we'll continue to produce people who will forever fail to pass on the true meaning of what various faiths are trying to teach.

Me:  You're welcomed.  But you again got it dreadfully wrong.  In the Glorious Quran wine is not symbolized as any such "holy nectar of energy for the arid body."   Don't know where you got that from.   The symbolism of the word "wine" is linked with the Arabic and English grammar, not with Paradise.  Wine is defined simply as a refreshing and uncontaminated drink, as one of the many niceties of Paradise.  Nothing in the Glorious Quran is "symbolic."  Everything is REAL.  Quran is NOT a philosophy nor a collection of rhetoric like other man-written scriptures or pieces.   Quran is the Message of total Monotheism.  It is the only original Divine Scripture and the Ultimate Truth - untouched by human hands.  This itself is the promise of Allah, The Exalted, that His Final Message is protected in a "guarded tablet" (Lawh Mahfooz) which none can alter.  Thus, almost 1500 years have passed by and it's unchanged and will remain so until the Day of Judgment when it will be a witness against humankind who made light of it and followed other sources as 'guidance.'

"And (He commandeth you, saying): This is My straight path, so follow it. Follow not other ways, lest ye be parted from His way. This hath He ordained for you, that ye may ward off (evil)."  (6:153) Al-Anam.

Praise be to Allah, The Almighty, alone.

Goodbye 'T' .. you still have so much to learn. May Allah Almighty grant you guidance.

-------

Knowing where this person was coming from, I shut the thread from my side as everything had been explained.  Moreover, it was easy to sense she was getting desperate to antagonize in the garb of a conversation.  She was one of those secular 'Muslims' living in India who had assimilated completely with the Hindu society.  There are many such folks in India who biologically come from Muslim families but practically they are almost totally Hindus.

Amazingly enough, the person who posted the Quranic verses 76:12-21 never participated in the discussion at all to correct the misguided ideas expressed by this woman in reply to the Verses he quoted even though he is portrayed by several of his friends as being very "knowledgeable" and "enlightened."  Looks more like the cowardice of artificial wisdom who's more interested in superficial diplomacy than spreading the Truth.
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N. Truth Seeker
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 03:44:00 am »

Well done sis ,, very nicely articulated.   Don't know how anyone can be unable to understand the brazen differences between situations on earth and Paradise. 

I think this weird lady did know the answers to her questions.  She just wanted to  trap you into a closed argument.  That's why she thanked you and yet said the opposite of what you so clearly explained.  But you handled her very well with your final response.  That must have caught her off guard  Cheesy  She  thought you might have no other choice but to show a polite gesture and remain silent to her "thank u" and then she would take that as her victory.  But good you didn't follow those formalities.  You understood her tactic and gave back a mouthful of Truth.  Alhumdulilah.
 claaap
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 03:50:34 am »

Thanks brother.  Yeah, she was a pagan at heart & mind.  She had lived all her life in a heavily kufar country.  Such people have almost their entire circle of friends, colleagues, household servants etc. all kufar hindus.  So they think it won't benefit them to come close to Islam.  Thus, to comfort their minds, they try to pretend that "all religions are the same."   All religions are NOT the same.  Islam is very different and it's Islam which is the ultimate Truth, NOT those other religions.  They'll learn their lesson on the Day of the Tryst, InshAllah.
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2011, 03:52:30 am »

I could perceive that in her attitude. 

These so-called Muslims who live in india, are they a minority?  what's their ratio with the kufar majority?
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2011, 03:54:51 am »

I wouldn't know the exact ratio.  However, the kufar are about 1 billion.  and the so-called Muslims are I think 140 million.  That's quite a large number but compared to the 1 billion kufar it dwindles down to very little. 
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2011, 03:56:11 am »

Okay, .....
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2020, 09:28:03 am »



That dang woman sounds like an irritating kaffir.  Even if such people understand the truth, they often prefer to persist in their stubbornness rejecting the truth. 

Your answers to her ignorant questions were spot on.    Allah bless you dear Sis. 

I had read this post earlier twice but somehow didn't get the time to respond.





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