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If Imam Hussein isn't in the Quran, how can we accept his martyrdom?


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Author Topic: If Imam Hussein isn't in the Quran, how can we accept his martyrdom?  (Read 2324 times)
Zeynab
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« on: October 13, 2011, 10:54:14 am »

This sarcastic question has recently become a hot topic for 'combat' by Sunni Hadithists.  But they aren't asking it from the Shiias.  Instead, most of them are demanding it from Quran alone followers.  The nasty little guile is easy to catch. 

Recently I was asked this question yet again probably for the umpteenth time by some folks (this time at Fb) as a novel trap.  Thus, to put an end of this perpetual badgering from people who apparently have little to do, I'll put up the facts .. once and for all.

WHY ISN'T THE MARTYRDOM OF IMAM HUSSEIN OR THE INCIDENT OF KARBALA  MENTIONED IN THE QURAN?

To begin with, I'm neither a Shiia nor a Sunni and I dislike sectarianism.  I am just MUSLIM and Alhumdulilah, I'm proud of it.  Having said that, surely I accept ONLY the Noble Quran as my guide and NO other books.  And this, your question dear Hadithists, is one of the most irrational ones I've ever been asked.  It's not worth my precious time.  Nonetheless, despite being incredibly thoughtless, I'm putting up  a quick but thorough rejoinder owing to my passion for the Glorious Quran.

Proof of Imam Hussein in the Quran?  From that view point, no one should believe in the existence of the sahabas.  Are any one of them mentioned in the Quran?   I can give umpteens of such examples.  Most importantly, the "bright" idea of calling oneself a Sunni or a Shiia is NOT mentioned in the Quran.  In fact, I can quote at least half a dozen verses which flatly condemn sectarianism.  So why do you guys indulge in sectarianism and sub-sectarianism as the foundation of your faith?

However, coming back to the topic and based on the question you put, 90% of Islamic history ought be trashed.  But here is the important and indispensable point few reflect upon.  The Noble Quran narrates only selected aspects of history that are necessary for acquiring guidance and moral lessons.  Otherwise, the Quran is NOT a Book of events, much less future events.  The Quran is a Book of Divine Guidance. 

This isn't about the senseless wranglings between Shiias and Sunnis.  It's about logic and principles. Nor is Imam Hussein a sole 'property' of the Shiias alone.  The incident of Imam Hussein dominates world history as a symbol of resistance against injustice and oppression.  The Noble Quran has already mentioned similar past events when injustice and tyranny did not survive nor were they appreciated by Allah.  I'm sure I don't need to quote any examples concerning it.  You must be already knowing them.  Indeed, Allah knew at the time He revealed the Quran that many more incidents of injustice would arise in future including the one involving Imam Hussein.  But that does NOT mean every one of those future events must be contained in the Quran.  Why?  Because (as mentioned) the Divine Power has already highlighted this vital aspect along with the moral lesson it involves in His Final Message, loud and clear, with direct references to several events in ancient times .... all of which make up the group of allegorical verses, separating them from the substance.   For allegorical verses and verses of substance, refer to Verse 3:7.   If we still cannot get the moral behind those allegorical Quranic narrations, that's our problem .. though not mine.  I do understand them as well as their moral lessons.  But unfortunately many of my brethren don't and hence the sub-standard queries.

Although Allah Almighty has mentioned some remarkable prophecies in the Glorious Quran,  they are of a different category specifically for benefiting, helping and encouraging the Prophet (S) in his mission to spread the message of Monotheism.   Therefore, additional future incidents which do not play a direct role in the Prophet's mission are not included in the Quran.  That again doesn't mean these future events aren't important in the Sight of Allah.

All such events are expected to be preserved as history and heritages by the people viz. the learned and conscientious ones, to further help enhance the standard of human perception.  Whether we perceive them correctly to benefit our souls with the lessons they teach or squabble over them to divide ourselves is up to us.  In either case, Allah is a constant Witness and will surely question the ones He considers to be the transgressors on the Day of the Tryst.

Though many smaller details of Islamic history have been tampered with by both Sunnis and Shiias, the major incidents remain intact by and large .. one of them being the incident of Karbala.  It's quite definitely one of the most significant ones in Islamic History owing to its negative consequences that exacerbated the future spilt within the Ummah.

WHY IS THE INCIDENT OF KARBALA 'HISTORY' AND NOT 'HADITH?'

Though the Shiias might have constructed several interpolations in regard to the incident of Karbala in the form of stories called Hadith (just as the Sunnis have done with their side of the events), when I say that Imam Hussein's martyrdom (or the incident of Karbala) is History and not Hadith, I simply mean the very incident itself .. NOT the plenteous interpolations that have followed in the shape of Hadith.  These interpolations are no doubt Hadith, but not the broad and basic event itself.  That's history.  I repeat .. while I do discard those many little stories on Karbala that fill Shiia Hadith collections, the precise event of Karbala is a historical data and cannot be rejected.   Similarly, many stories & gossips might have been constructed about Muawiyah bin Abu Sufyan and Yazid bin Muawiyah (neither of whom are mentioned in the Quran either) - positive ones in the Sunni Hadith collections and negative ones in the Shiia collections - all of which I trash.  But the existence of Muawiyah and Yazid and the Ummayad dynasty is a part of Islamic history (not hadith) which cannot be denied.

WHY IS HISTORY DIFFERENT FROM HADITH?

The reason why History is totally different from Hadith is because the compilation of History involves a very different approach with a completely different set of rules mandatory for authentication.  Yet, History can falter to some extent but because it involves a far more thorough research, it doesn't go as baloney as the bizarre Hadith institution.  Unlike History, Hadith has preserved nothing because it contained nothing to preserve except its own constructions and 'chinese' gossips from generation to generation.  That bombastic talk to impress naive faithfuls about the "science" of Hadith is nothing beyond the notorious "isnad" which is anything but a foolproof evidence of authenticity.  Thus, it starts with myths and ends with the same.  Sketching a fraudulent 'isnad' is no tough job.  An "isnad" that's intertwined thoughtfully may appear acceptable on the face of it, yet it could be a purely phoney construction.  There is no research involved in Hadith. 

Another serious and embarrassing issue (out of many); our jurists boast endlessly about the "science" of Hadith.  But their own boasts have landed them in a strange dilemma.  Many Ahadith may comprise of a seeminlgy correct 'isnad' yet it's contents have been found absurd or offensive.  Thus, their entire argument on the authenticity of the "science" of Hadith falls flat on the ground.  Yes, I do not accept Hadith as the sayings of our beloved Prophet (S), not for a minute.  Hadith is the same annexation as the altered Old & New Testaments.  Those Sunnis and Shiias who believe in the Hadith as being totally authentic need to be rational, not hyped.  As justice and fair play demands, they must not indulge in double standards while judging an ideology.  If they reject the altered Bible and Torah for being tampered with human hands and not being based on truth & reason (and surely the altered Bible & Torah are not authentic), then they should also reject the Hadith on the same criteria.  Hadith has precisely the same problems as the Old and New Testaments. Hadith does not represent the words of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) just as the altered Bible does not represent the words of Jesus son of Virgin Mary (pbu them).  There's MUCH MORE to say on this which can be found in the Hadith boards of our website.
 
To read plenty more on the glaring difference between History and Hadith detailed explicitly, visit the following link:
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=932.0

AS SIMPLE AS THAT  ..

Conclusion 

If anyone still cannot understand or accept the above, the only plausible explanation can be that their heads are filled with clumps of horse shit.  Thus, no need badgering me any more.  Instead visit a neurosurgeon to replace that offensive stuff with some gray matter. Excuse me for forgetting my manners.  But those who insult others shouldn't expect anything different.  What goes around comes around.

Goodbye.  As-salaam Alaikum.
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Ruhi_Rose
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2011, 08:26:20 am »

I LOVE YOUR REJOINDER SIS.  BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL!   

The bunch of folks who asked this question must be participating in some sort of competition on proving themselves to the world's top idiots.  What a stupid question to ask.  They have no idea what it means to follow the Quran alone.  I repeat, this piece you wrote is so comprehensive, it covers everything.  A lot of it will also probably pass over the heads of those buffoons like clouds. 
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2011, 04:39:42 am »

The problem with marble-heads who ask such questions is that their zeal to pick up a fight makes them still more brainless than they previously were.  Thus, their oversights expose the holes of their own constructions to the maximum. 

The obvious thing these idiots expose is the big hole in their own logic according to which the entire Sunni concept goes down the drain.  There's no such thing as a "sahabah" in the Quran.  And there's so much more to say on this.  Your rejoinder was superb, sister.  I agree, these guys are in dire need to visit neuro surgeons for some essential transplants & replacements inside their thick heads.
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2011, 04:51:02 am »

I had also put up this article in my blog. Today a blog reader sent me a question on email which I presume is after reading this article.  I responded saying that he should put his query on the blog comments.  I don't take questions on email as all my works must be public.  Thus, I'm posting that question and my response here .. in case he reads it, he might not need to put it up on the blog.

Question from the blog reader.
QUOTE:
"please guide me about the Eid ul Edha with references from holy quran. whether it is compulsory/farz? If so, then whether it is necessary to slaughter goat or cow or camal only? type of cattle to be slaughtered?  whether it should be observed on 10 of zil haj?"
UNQUOTE:

My response:

Eid-al-Adha in the Quran is not mentioned as a universal celebration for all Muslims. It's one of the obligations of Hajj in commemoration of the incident in Prophet Abraham's (pbuh) life which I'm sure you know.  From my understanding, what we call Eid-al-Adha today, is a sacrifice incumbent for pilgrims only, and the food is primarily for feeding the needy and to ourselves too.  But it is surely NOT for the purpose of extravagant celebrations involving the rich or privileged as is done at present in almost all parts of the Muslim world.  I definitely see it as fard or obligatory for those performing Hajj.   But for those not on Hajj, I don't see it as compulsory.  However, if those not on Hajj also desire to give sacrifice at the same time for the purpose of feeding the poor for the sake of Allah, it will surely be an additional good deed for them.  Probably a very important additional good deed as Zil Hajj is an important month, the month of visiting the Kaaba especially for those who have never been there and who can afford to go.   After all, Ibadah and all good deeds for the sake of Allah are plus points for our souls at all times.

Obviously the sacrifice to be observed by pilgrims should be at the end of Hajj, which is already referred in the Quran.  I suppose a day or two or a few days later might also be okay.  These are minor issues and I wouldn't bang my head too much over them.  As long as the intentions are for serving Allah Almighty alone, we can simply use our common sense on the basis of Quranic values and make our decisions.  If Allah wills, He will accept them.  But the ulemas and "scholars" must not make their own rules and dub them as "Islamc laws."  That's thoroughly unethical.

The Quran does not specify which animal to be slaughtered.  Thus, we can presume it can be any animal, the meat of which is Halal as per Quranic principles i.e. cattle, sheep or camel or poultry.   Many pilgrims and non-pilgrims nowadays also substitute this practice with sending an equivalent amount of money (or whatever one can afford to pay) as charity to the needy.  I think this is fine too, provided one does it with pure intentions (niyyah).
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2011, 05:26:24 am »

This is a very neat and articulate response truly adhering to the instructions and the general values of the Noble Quran.

There are some folks who also ask regarding Eid-al-Fitr celebrated after Ramadan on the 1st of Shawwal.   According to man-made traditions Eid-al-Fitr has become such an accepted & important part of Ramadan (for some dummies more important than Ramadan) that they often hurl this question thinking that it will leave a Quran alone follower dumbstruck.  But it doesn't at all.  The simple answer to this question is that since Eid-al-Fitr is not memtioned in the Quran, we are definitely following a practice which hasn't been made obligatory on us by Allah Almighty.  Eid-al-Fitr is most certainly a purely man-made event which does not appear anywhere in the Quran because it has no importance in the Sight of Allah.  From this, it would be perfectly sensible to conclude that there was no such thing as Eid-al-Fitr during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) either.  At most, during the Prophet's (pbuh) time perhaps a few close relatives and friends of Prophet may have gotten together for a while at the Prophet's masjid to congratulate each other for completing the month of fasting successfully and may have shared some dates to nibble at best.  I have no doubt that these simple get-togethers (if at all they took place) were a far cry from today's extravagant celebrations of Eid-al-Fitr even in the homes of middle-class Muslims who have to struggle to afford them.   

However, just as participating in happy moments and get-togethers is not forbidden according to the Quran provided they are done in a Halal manner, observing Eid-al-Fitr in a quiet and simple manner would be okay.  Unfortunately even this, similar to Eid-al-Adha, has become an excuse for Muslims to squander their money on useless things like buying expensive clothes, jewellery, cooking plenty of food .. much more than they need, inviting friends to eat who are rich enough to afford all luxuries of life etc.  Like Eid-al-Adha, Eid-al-Fitr too has become only a show of extravagance for fun of the well-to-do and middle-class and no one thinks a damn about the poor.  In my personal opinion, in accordance with Quranic principles of condemning extravagance and squandering money on unnecessary matters, such celebrations would fit right in the Haram category. They don't at all seem to qualify for the Halal category of activities.
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2011, 06:18:10 am »

MashAllah, dynamic thread.  First time I've come across such a bizarre question on Imam Hussein.  I don't know what the ignorant questioner had in mind other than thinking to trap you, not knowing that the answer to such a question is so very simple.  But most Hadithists don't have a clue of the wide diferences between hadith and history.  That's what makes them indulge in still greater stupidity.  Both Hadithists as well as Free Mind modernists have been completely unable to differentiate between hadith and history.  While the Hadithist think hadith and history are the same, the Free Minders in order to abolish the credibility of hadith, abolish history too by equating the two similarly as the hadithists do.  That's because both Hadithists and Free Minders are too foolish to know the difference so the former tries to mingle both while the latter tries to dismiss both.  Both views are plainly incorrect.  Not boasting, but we are the only ones who have got it right. That article on difference between history & hadith is fantastic.  I sent it to lots of relatives and friends.  Everyone found it spectacular.  I have also been meaning to take it as an agenda of our future weekly offline discussions with the specific group of friends, but haven't gotten about as yet.  InshAllah will take it soon.

This thread discussion on Eid-al-Adha and Eid-al-Fitr was also very informative and open.  Thank you very much sisters.  The guy who put that question in the blog ought to get it very well.  But if he's a staunch Hadithist he will purposely crush his rationale and reject it .. which would mean rejecting the facts of the Quran, and which unfortunately does not make Hadithists uncomfortable.

I had also read, I think at the Quran dot org website, that the idea of a celebration after Ramadan introduced by Bukhari & co. through the Hadith is basically a pre-Islamic idea.  In pre-Islamic societies including Europe, Middle-East, Far-East, Central Asia etc., almost all of them had this old polytheistic tradition marking the end of a religious month or a religious event with a celebration which would basically include partying with plenty of food and wine.  Of course, in good Muslim homes even if they spend a lot, it's mostly without Haram stuff like wine etc.  But what I mean is that the concept brought by Bukhari & co.  was from those old un-Islamic traditions.  After all, Bukhari & co.'s ancestors were zoroastrians and they had plenty of such traditions in their families even after they converted to Islam.  This is how such issues have been introduced in Islam.
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 03:40:51 am »

Having said that, surely I accept ONLY the Noble Quran as my guide and NO other books.  And this, your question dear Hadithists, is one of the most irrational ones I've ever been asked.  It's not worth my precious time.  Nonetheless, despite being incredibly thoughtless, I'm putting up  a quick but thorough rejoinder owing to my passion for the Glorious Quran.


^^ I LOVE THIS! Masha'Allah sister (=
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“Truth always rests with the minority, and the minority is always stronger than the majority, because the minority is generally formed by those who really have an opinion, while the strength of a majority is illusory, formed by the gangs who have no opinion — and who, therefore, in the next instant (when it is evident that the minority is the stronger) assume its opinion… while truth again reverts to a new minority.”

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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 01:43:10 am »

 Both Hadithists as well as Free Mind modernists have been completely unable to differentiate between hadith and history.  While the Hadithist think hadith and history are the same, the Free Minders in order to abolish the credibility of hadith, abolish history too by equating the two similarly as the hadithists do.  

u r darn right.  I observed that too.  Those guys, Layth and Wakas, are totally confused on this issue.  As a result they have discarded entire world history.  This influence has spread so rapidly at FMs that many of them even deny the existence of the Prophet Muhammed and his predecessors (peace be on them).



I had also read, I think at the Quran dot org website, that the idea of a celebration after Ramadan introduced by Bukhari & co. through the Hadith is basically a pre-Islamic idea.  In pre-Islamic societies including Europe, Middle-East, Far-East, Central Asia etc., almost all of them had this old polytheistic tradition marking the end of a religious month or a religious event with a celebration which would basically include partying with plenty of food and wine.  Of course, in good Muslim homes even if they spend a lot, it's mostly without Haram stuff like wine etc.  But what I mean is that the concept brought by Bukhari & co.  was from those old un-Islamic traditions.  

I've also read this opinion expressed by several Muslim researchers who aren't blind fans of Hadith.  

There are many examples for this.  Christmas is the most glaring one.  In pagan Europe (starting from Rome) it was called "Saturnalia" from Saturn which was a Roman pagan deity.  The event would start with the traditional worship of this pagan idol with rituals in the temples.  The celebrations would begin by 20th of December or so and continue uptil the new year which was supposed to be the feast of Saturn called "Saturnalia."   This week long closure was a time when all businesses came to a halt.  Families gathered together, had feasts with plenty of food & wine, invited friends, overindulged themselves, gave gifts, and decorated their homes with festive greenery.  And this precise celebration today is called "Christmas."  Though it omits the concept of Saturn, yet the festive customs that were observed connected to Saturn still exist in this most widely celebrated Christian occasion.  And of course, Essa (son of Maryam) was most definitely not born on December 25th.  That's one big hoax.  

Similarly all Christian holidays like Easter, Halloween etc.  originate from similar pagan religious beliefs and end up in food and fun.  And of course, there were many similar festivals that followed pagan religious events in Arabia and Persia.

TO ALL READERS, PLEASE NOTE: I'm not saying that observing Eid-al-Fitr moderately in a Halal manner is wrong.  However, it's not taken from the Noble Quran.  This idea is quite obviously borrowed from elsewhere.  The Quran simply does not mention nor hint of any  celebration after completing the 30 obligatory fasts in the month of Ramadan, and hence, it's impossible that the Prophet (SAW) would declare the first 3 days of Shawwal for feasting as an official law.  
   
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 01:55:46 am »

@ 100%RealMuslim ,, many thanks for your appreciation dear brother Smiley




TO ALL READERS, PLEASE NOTE: I'm not saying that observing Eid-al-Fitr moderately in a Halal manner is wrong.  However, it's not taken from the Noble Quran.  This idea is quite obviously borrowed from elsewhere.  The Quran simply does not mention nor hint of any  celebration after completing the 30 obligatory fasts in the month of Ramadan, and hence, it's impossible that the Prophet (SAW) would declare the first 3 days of Shawwal for feasting as an official law.  
 

Very correct and articulately concluded sister Rose.
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 06:18:57 am »

I had also put up this article in my blog. Today a blog reader sent me a question on email which I presume is after reading this article.  I responded saying that he should put his query on the blog comments.  I don't take questions on email as all my works must be public.  Thus, I'm posting that question and my response here .. in case he reads it, he might not need to put it up on the blog.

Question from the blog reader.
QUOTE:
"please guide me about the Eid ul Edha with references from holy quran. whether it is compulsory/farz? If so, then whether it is necessary to slaughter goat or cow or camal only? type of cattle to be slaughtered?  whether it should be observed on 10 of zil haj?"
UNQUOTE: 


I read this on your blog tonite.  That blog reader put up this query there.  He also added a new point, if it's okay to sacrifice a "chicken."  Grin   
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 06:38:01 am »

LOL ,, yes why not?  I guess with such high cost of living all around this planet, a poor Muslim can hardly afford to sacrifice anything beyond a chicken. 
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 06:40:30 am »

Yes, sister Zainab's reply was similar I quote  Smiley

"Regarding sacrificing a chicken, I would say yes it's okay provided the person cannot afford a more expensive animal. Someone who is financially very hard up but has the desire to spend whatever he can for the sake of Allah and a chicken is all he can afford, I think that would be acceptable in the Sight of Allah because what Allah takes into consideration most is our sincere intent. However, if a multi-millionaire who squanders his wealth on pleasure and yet gives a mere chicken as sacrifice, that would not be right."
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 06:45:09 am »

Perfect!
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2011, 05:39:10 am »

He also added a new point, if it's okay to sacrifice a "chicken."  Grin   

Hahahaha, I laughed at this with you, that's if you did laugh  Grin
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“Truth always rests with the minority, and the minority is always stronger than the majority, because the minority is generally formed by those who really have an opinion, while the strength of a majority is illusory, formed by the gangs who have no opinion — and who, therefore, in the next instant (when it is evident that the minority is the stronger) assume its opinion… while truth again reverts to a new minority.”

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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2011, 06:32:44 am »

lol .... yeah a bit funny but I think it makes sense.  After all the Noble Quran does not say chicken cannot be given for sacrifice.  For those who really cannot afford a cow or sheep or camel .. a couple of chickens would be fine .. and then give a plate or two of dinner to a couple of poor persons.  In countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. there's so much poverty, there are beggars roaming the streets with their little beggar's bowl.  They would love a small free dinner of rice and chicken curry.   Not to mention, what's important in the Sight of Allah is not how much we give but the intent with which we give.   Of course this doesn't mean a millionaire can excuse himself by giving a couple chickens as sacrifice.  He ought to give a lot more. 
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