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Asma-ur-Rijal


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Ruhi_Rose
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« on: November 09, 2011, 10:50:40 am »

Salaams and hi folks.  My husband and I went to a friends' house last evening (that couple was a Hadithist  Cheesy) where the dinner was followed by some discussions.  We were told that the discussion will be on "Quran and Hadith" but after sitting through it which extended for almost 2 hours, they literally didn't even discuss a single verse of the Quran but only Hadith. 

In their Hadith discussions they mentioned something about "asma-ur-rijal" being a method of verifying Hadith.  Is asma-ur-rijal similar to the notorious isnad known as the "science of Hadith" to verify the connections of the hadith narrators, or what?  My husband wasn't sure about it either.
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 11:55:59 am »

Walaikum Salaam and hi sis!  Aw, that discussion must have been some headache!!   Grin

Asma-ur-Rijal is just another stylish expression to dupe the blind Hadithers.  The "ulemas" call it "an unique art of research on people."  The references or information for determining the correctness of a Hadith i.e. Asma-ur-Rijal, are usually taken from various books written by the medieval imams, often relating to the biography or part of the biography of famous personalities.  Whatever it researches about the people, whether their identity was correct or whether they were who they claimed to be or what might have been their social, political, legal status etc. etc. is not the point.  Even if these facts are correctly determined, it has no bearing on the authenticity of the Hadith itself.  What needs to be the focus of attention while verifying the correctness of the Hadith is the substance contained in each Hadith.  If that's humbug, then hell with asma-ur-rijal and hell with isnad.  That hadith is garbage. Period.

Moreover, most Hadith compilers and the Hadith followers themselves do not care a fig about asma-ur-rijal.  For example there's one asma-ur-rijal I know of which is correct but the Hadith narrations ignore it.  Ayesha’s biography through accounts of Asma-ur-Rijal reveals that she was 17 when married to the Prophet and 19 when she came to live with him.  Historically and realistically this is quite definitely correct.  But this isn't accepted by any of the Hadith narrations.  There was a man by the name of Imam Waliuddin Muhammad Abdullah Al-Khateeb who was supposed to be an expert on asma-ur-rijal i.e. verifying the truth about people.  In his mishaat asma-ur-rijal he has noted  that Aisha's older sister, Asma, was 10 years older than Aisha.  He further notes that Asma died in the year 73 A.H. when she was 100 years old.  From this, other important issues have been computed.  When the Prophet migrated to Medinah, was the start of the Islamic Hijri calendar taken as 1 A.H.  If Asma was 100 years old during the time of her death in 73 A.H., then her age can be easily be  calculated at the time of Hijrah which would be 100 minus 73 = 27 years.  If Asma was 10 years older than her younger sister, Aisha, then during Hijrah Aisha would be 17. And since Aisha is said to have begun living with the Prophet (pbuh) two years after the nikah or marriage, that means she must have been at least 19 years old when she went to live with the Prophet.  But all Hadith narrations have ignored this asma-ur-rijal and insist that she was 7 years old during the nikah and 9 years old when she went to live with the Prophet.   Totally false.

If you check the writings of the Hadith promoters, their sea of exaggerated praises about the liars who have compiled the different Hadith collections will first make you sick and will then make you roll in laughter. 

For example I quote the following which is an excerpt from the publisher's forward who has compiled the Hadith collection of Sunan ibn Majah, another pocket full of tall lies.  It goes without saying that the heightened boast and the embellishment as stated below concerning the works of the Hadith compilers are bang opposite of the truth. 

"It is a well-known fact that the painstaking efforts of scholars gave Ahadith a high degree of reliability next to Qur'an. When the Ahadith had been read over carefully, revised, corrected and expounded in the light of the principles of Hadith sciences like Jarh (invalidation), Ta'dil (validation), and Asma'ur-Rijal, the stage for the recording of Ahadith was set. Thanks to the exhausting efforts of Hadith scholars and their deep sense of responsibility, the Muslim nation got, in addition to Sihah Sittah (the Sound Six books of Hadith) a vast treasure that included Musannafat (Hadith compilations according to subject-headings), Jawdmi' (comprehensive books of Ahadith), Sunan (collections of legal and doctrinal Ahadith), Masanid (Hadith compilations according to complete chains), Ma'ajim (compilations arranged according to names of Companions or regions or names of teachers of compilers)" ..

and the hilarious blah blah blah goes on and on shamelessly without the slightest of concern that such formalities are futile if the contents of these Ahadith violate or contradict the Quran.  Regardless of asma-ur-rijal or isnad etc. the sort of bullshit which the contents of 90% of Ahadith consist of, cannot possibly be called "sahih" which means "correct."  The whole world knows that they're anything but "correct."  Forget about all those bombastic expressions to dupe the naive faithfuls like "science, physics or chemistry" of Hadith.  Concentrate on what the contents say.  Even if a Hadith conforms to the tests mentioned above but it's substance goes flatly against the dictates of the Quran, that "science" becomes useless and such a hadith has only one destination - the gutters.  It has to be dumped deep inside the gutter.  The real and only test of a Hadith lies in its level of compatibility with the Quran.  The Quran is the sole Criterion of right and wrong as confirmed by Allah Almighty Himself.  There can be no arguments after that.

I would also like to add that by now the deceit and fabrication of the Hadith culture has become so well established that even those 10% or 5% that might sound decent cannot be accepted as the "sayings of the Prophet."  It must be known that even these few decent ones have the same source.  However, I have no objections if these few are retained, but let NOT anyone attribute them to the Prophet (pbuh).  That wouldn't be right at all.  Either the source should be officially stated by mentioning the names of the narrators or compilers or just let the source remain as some anonymous persons who came a century after the passing away of the Prophet.


To read about the discrepancy of the much talked about isnad, check our post:
Ever thought of the fallibility of isnad
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2011, 01:17:04 am »

I see.  OK, thanks sis Heba.  I now get an idea what asmaa-ur-rijaal is supposed to be.  But on what basis is asma-ur-rijaal judged?  what's the criterion?  It's surely not the Quran for in that case all the so-called Sihah Sittah (the Sound Six books of Hadith) would have been dumped in the garbage.  The Quran confirms none of these 6 Hadith books as "correct," let alone recognizing them as Halal.  I call them Sihah Sittah Haram  Cheesy

That quotation in blue of the publisher's forward is really irritating ..... feel as though the author is purposely trying to tease me. How can they have the audacity to lie so comfortably & unashamedly in public?  These folks are thoroughly lacking in self-respect.
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2011, 01:35:34 am »



"It is a well-known fact that the painstaking efforts of scholars gave Ahadith a high degree of reliability next to Qur'an. When the Ahadith had been read over carefully, revised, corrected and expounded in the light of the principles of Hadith sciences like Jarh (invalidation), Ta'dil (validation), and Asma'ur-Rijal, the stage for the recording of Ahadith was set. Thanks to the exhausting efforts of Hadith scholars and their deep sense of responsibility, the Muslim nation got, in addition to Sihah Sittah (the Sound Six books of Hadith) a vast treasure that included Musannafat (Hadith compilations according to subject-headings), Jawdmi' (comprehensive books of Ahadith), Sunan (collections of legal and doctrinal Ahadith), Masanid (Hadith compilations according to complete chains), Ma'ajim (compilations arranged according to names of Companions or regions or names of teachers of compilers)" ..

Uggh!  This sounds reprobate and wanton .. literally.  It's the kind of wicked lie that can set one's blood boiling.  In spite of the "deep sense of responsibility" and "painstaking efforts" the 6 Hadith books are a mix of comedy & porn.  What would they be like if these Hadith "scholars" didn't make that much of "painstaking efforts??" 

And I too have that same question as sister Rose.  What's the source or criterion for asma-ur-rijal?  It's NOT the Quran, that goes without saying.  The Hadith crowd never even touches the Quran for references nor confirmation.
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2011, 01:42:51 am »

In spite of the "deep sense of responsibility" and "painstaking efforts" the 6 Hadith books are a mix of comedy & porn.  What would they be like if these Hadith "scholars" didn't make that much of "painstaking efforts??"

 Grin Cheesy Grin

That's another thought provoking question.  If what we see before us in the Hadith is supposed to be the result of "effort" and "responsibility,"  what would be the concept of relaxation according to the hadith 'scholars?'   teethsmile
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 07:44:11 am »

Haaha ha ha ,, you bet that quote is irritating .. big time!   I already warned you guys  Tongue    Those "scholars" might have worked hard, tirelessly, on constructing their deceptions with efforts of keep them free from loopholes.  But even on that they didn't succeed as bulk of their works are such baloneys even someone suffering with autism will suspect foul play.

Well, the criterion for asma-ur-rijal is Hadith itself.  LOL!  My husband refers to asma-ur-rijal as "Hadith contradicting Hadith."   That's why I never even bothered to pick up that topic earlier because its verifying factor is the same hogwash that speaks the nonsense.  This is typical in Hadith discussions.  You will notice that if you put a question about some Hadith absurdity to a Hadith follower, all of their references and so-called proofs to establish its credibility will come from the same source which you are challenging i.e., Hadith itself.  E.g. If you tell them that Hadith is not a part of Islam, they will produce that sentence from the Hadith of Prophet's last sermon which says to hold on to the Quran "and sunnah" after the Prophet passes away.  But they conveniently hide the fact that that portion of the last sermon has been tampered with so much that it has at least 3 or 4 versions at present. There's no doubt that the original version stated to hold only to the "Quran."  Period.  But the sunni addition says "Quran and sunnah," the shiia addition says "Quran and ahl-e-bayt" and so on.  

The evidence through asma-ur-rijal for showing that Aisha was much older than what the circulating Ahadith claim regarding her age also comes from other Ahadith.   However, I always knew that Aisha was much older NOT through asma-ur-rijal but based on the Quranic concept of marriage and my common sense.  The Quran has clearly conveyed that marriage is a sacred, serious and matured bond between man & woman with important responsibilities.  It also brings about changes in the holdings of the husband's assets (for those with sizable assets) as he has to assign to his future wife a portion of it as gift and the wife has to take care of it honorably.  Such maturity & sobriety cannot be expected from a 7-year-old or a 9-year-old.  

But to give an example of how asma-ur-rijal disproves Bukhari's Hadiths by bringing them to conflict with those of other Hadith writers, check the following:

According to Abdal-Rahman ibn abi zannad: “Asma was 10 years older than Ayesha" (Siyar A-lamal-nubala, Al-Zahabi, Vol. 2, p. 289, Arabic, Mu’assasatul-risalah, Beirut, 1992).

According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani: “She [Asma] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH.” (Taqribul-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, p. 654, Arabic, Bab fil-nisa’, al-harful-alif, Lucknow).  This information is very well accepted in all Hadith circles yet they prefer to accept Bukhari's Ahadith on this topic.

According to Ibn Kathir: “She [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by 10 years” (Al-Bidayah wal-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 371, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)


The above are the asma-ur-rijal evidence.  For a change, indeed they sound sensible but usually asma-ur-rijal aren't as helpful nor sensible either.   Now, contrary to the above, read the false Ahadith below from Bukhari & Muslim bin Hajaj which majority of Muslims have chosen to accept.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
 
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'


F***** LIES!  Not just that, but Bukhari has also gone a step further with his very malicious lies by accusing the Prophet (pbuh) of marrying Aisha against the wishes of her father, Abu Bakr Sidiq, a false story that has given a welcoming ammunition to the non-Muslim critics.  The following is Bukhari's next lie mocking and slandering our beloved Prophet (pbuh):

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."


Shame on Ursa and Bukhari for their unconscientious lies!  Beware of this narrator named Usra, full name Ursa ibn al-Zubayr son of Zubayr ibn al-Awwam.  He's particularly a darling of the wahabis & salifis.  Narrated tons of bulky bullshit like Abu Huraira.

This is the story of asma-ur-rijal.  I repeat, I only found it sensible concerning this topic of Aisha's age.  But otherwise the contents of asma-ur-rijal is itself Hadith.  It's got NOTHING to do with references to the Noble Quran nor any historical data compiled by serious researchers.  
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2011, 12:51:54 am »

I see it.  This means asma-ur-rijal involves comparing one Hadith with other Hadiths to detect mistakes.  However, as you rightly perceived, no one makes use of it .. probably because they know that comparing one unreliable source with another similar one is no good.


You will notice that if you put a question about some Hadith absurdity to a Hadith follower, all of their references and so-called proofs to establish its credibility will come from the same source which you are challenging i.e., Hadith itself.

This is soooo true. I've always observed this too. It shows how weak the Hadith front is.  No other source offers support to Hadith because of its extreme unreliability.  Therefore, Hadith seeks its verification from itself.  It's like a thief testifying he didn't steal.  



Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

This is one of Bukhari's most nasty and sick jokes.  I've also put this up in the Hadith discussion site a couple of years ago.  I quoted this Hadith to several  Hadithists, asking them why Bukhari came up with such a mean lie.  All of them avoided answering my question and slipped out quietly. The response from everyone was, "ok, I'll explain it tomorrow" but 'tomorrow' never came uptil today .. it's been more than a year.

 

 Beware of this narrator named Usra, full name Ursa ibn al-Zubayr son of Zubayr ibn al-Awwam.  He's particularly a darling of the wahabis & salifis.  Narrated tons of bulky bullshit like Abu Huraira.

Abu Huraira, abu Darda, Anas bin Malik, Saad bin Malik, Ursa bin Zubayr etc. etc. whom the Muslims glorify as "sahabas" were all top notch loafers .. let's face it.
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"Say: Though the sea became ink for the Words of my Lord, verily the sea would be used up before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even though We brought the like thereof to help."  (18:109) Al-Kahf
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 12:25:04 am »

lol on AsmaurRijal. Why dont simply call it 'normal biography' ? it is easier to understood and it is what it is....   RollLaugh
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