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"Eid-e-Ghadeer" or "Ghadeer-e-Khum" .. what's that?

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Heba E. Husseyn
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« on: November 15, 2011, 09:16:56 am »

I've been hearing from certain circles about "Eid-e-Ghadeer" being yesterday or the day before.  Now, what's this folks?  I'm sure it's linked with some interpolation, thus I'm posting it on the Hadith board  Grin  Would anyone tell me what this is?   I'm only sure of one thing, that it's nothing from the Quran.
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 10:26:55 am »

It's another one of those myths, sister.  Yeah, you can put it in the Hadith category.  This one is from the Shiias.  With all those tales from Bukhari & co., the Shiias thought why must they lag behind Smiley

Eid-e-Ghadeer is a festive day observed by Shiia Muslims on the 18th of Zil Hijjah (month of Hajj) in the Islamic calendar to commemorate the appointment of Ali bin Abi Talib by the Prophet (pbuh) as his immediate successor. Pure myth.  There's no historical record nor information in this regard that the Prophet (pbuh) appointed anyone as his successor during his entire lifetime.  The Prophet never made any such appointments regarding anyone nor did anyone ever ask him to. That's because the Noble Quran commands NOTHING, directly nor indirectly, to the Prophet (pbuh) about appointing a successor.  The ideology of running a government as per Quranic principles is the appointment of a shura or councel with members (apparently chosen by the people for their good reputation) who are entitled to decide upon a leadership.  Although the Prophet (pbuh) was selected by Allah Himself, yet Allah also tells the Prophet to mutually consult with the people regarding important matters.  In his lifetime, the Prophet (pbuh) neither appointed Ali bin Abi Talib nor Abu Bakr Siddiq nor anyone else to succeed him after his death.  This is definite.  There's no concept of a hereditary system of rule (be it monarchy or imamat) in the Quran.  That's because the Quran does not establish the worth of people according to their family lineage.  Instead, the Quran expects every person to be recognized on the basis of their own efforts and merits .. regardless of their family connections, whether they be rich or poor, famous or not famous, all that is irrelevant.  Thus, the Quran admires the Prophet based on the worth of his personal character which was exemplary.  The Quran NEVER praises the Prophet because of his connections with the powerful Qureysh tribe nor its influential Banu Hashim clan.  All that is completely insignificant.

Indeed the Prophet's (pbuh) family was important, not simply because they were the Prophet's family but since they came from the Prophet's household, they were expected to be role models for the entire community.  Otherwise it would seem the Prophet (pbuh) was preaching what his own family didn't heed.  And indeed, as a husband, a father and grandfather, the Prophet (pbuh) dearly loved his family as anyone would and should.  But he never even thought for a moment to give them a special position simply because they were his family.

Then, there's also another Shiia day called Eid-e-Zehra or Eid-e-Shuja.  It's observed on the 9th of Rabi-al-Awal. It's also a day for Shiia celebration when a number of important events are said to have taken place.  But the real event that makes it important for the Shiias is the beginning of their 12th imamat after the death of the 11th imam on 8th Rabi-al-Awal.  The 12th imam is Mahdi who disappeared at a very young age.  The Shiias and Sunnis believe he is still alive and will ascend, similar to the belief of the ascendency of Essa, son of Virgin Maryam.  Thus, the Shiias believe that the imamat of Mahdi has spanned over 1,160 years and that he is living and is their present Imam.  As you can see, its foundation is another Hadith myth.   Only that date of 8th Rabi-al-Awal marking the death of the 11th Shiia imam might be correct.
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 03:23:08 am »

hummm ,, hummmmmmmmmm ,,  Cheesy

I thought as much.  But I think it's even more far-fetched than I anticipated.  Prophet (Salal la Aleyhi Wasalam) appointing his "successor" ????  What's going so wrong with the Ummah that they embark upon such stories with a perfectly straight face?
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2011, 03:34:31 am »

Yes sister.  It's really troubling that people come up with such stories.  Instead of reading history, they construct history and that's how the truth gets erased. 

Btw ,, Ghadeer-e-Khum is the name of the place where according to the claim of this story, the Prophet (pbuh) chose Ali as his successor.  Needless to say, I don't accept this story.  Similarly if the Sunnis say the Prophet (pbuh) chose Abu Bakr as his successor, I wouldn't accept that either.  Because in keeping with the values of the Quran, the Prophet (pbuh) never named a successor.  He left that up to the people or the shura.
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 02:31:11 am »

I recall, in few of the Bukhari and al-Muslim hadiths, the narrator / compiler have attempted to draw a wedge between sunnis and shiias (as many ahadith have done), claiming that the Prophet (pbuh) had given a piece of land to his daughter, Fatima Zahra, which was confiscated from her after her father's death by Abu Bakr Siddiq when he became caliph.  Total lie and in the process of this lie, these damned hadith narrators & compilers didn't even hesitate to construct a falsehood against the Prophet (pbuh) who never took even a penny from the state treasury for his family, let alone a piece of land.
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 02:38:22 am »

According to the Hadith story, this is regarding the land dispute of Fadak.  Fadak was an oasis in Khyber which according to Hadith tales the Prophet had gifted to his daughter Fatimah.  But after the Prophet's death, Abu Bakr took it back from her which upset Fatima greatly.  It's a very suspicious and illogical Hadith story which I don't accept at all.  It seems to have just one purpose - to antagonize the Shiias against the Sunnis by making Abu Bakr look like a tyrant who treated Fatima harshly after she lost her father.  The Hadith narrator and compiler forget the enormous love and respect Abu Bakr had for the Prophet and would never even dream of reversing a personal decision of the Prophet of such a nature, had it been true.  Hence, as you so rightly stated, the most important evidence to refute this Hadith is that the Prophet never touched a single dinar from the state treasury for his family, let alone an oasis in Khyber.  Also, there's never any evidence in history of Fatima having any connections with Khyber.

The following are two Ahadith are by Bukhari where he has tried his best to antagonize the Shiias against Abu Bakr and Aisha.  There are a few more as well, one from al-Muslim.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:
Narrated 'Ayesha: (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

Sahih Bukhari under the Chapter of "The battle of Khaibar", Arabic-English,v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, narrates from Ayesha that:
".. Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself".
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 02:42:23 am »

Many thanks for these details brother PT.  I was only familiar with this term but had a very sketchy idea of what it meant.  The sunnis and shiias are fervently running neck and neck in a bid to prove which one can more successfully trash history.
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 02:56:37 am »

This is a purely Hadith stuff.  Both Shiia and Sunni ahadith, which are considered canonical, are in a complete mess.  I'm sure everyone knows it.  They are both rife with contradictions and confusions.  Regarding this Ghadeer-e-Khum story, the Sunni hadiths have contradictions even within themselves.  Some Sunni historians and imams reject it downright, not because it's un-Quranic to appoint a successor, but as Prof. M.A. Shaban writes "Such an event is inherently improbable considering the Arab's traditional reluctance to entrust young and untried men with great responsibility. Furthermore, at no point do our sources show the Madinan community behaving as if they had heard of this designation ......"( Shaban, Vol. I, pp.16).   I agree, there's no talk of this Ghadeer story in the entire history of Madinah.  But that bit about Arabs traditionally being unwilling to entrust responsibility to an inexperinced person is needless to say.  Regardless what the Arabs traditionally accepted or not, there's NO such concept as a hereditary system of governance described nor implied in the Quran.  The Quran makes it clear that the Prophet came only as a warner, his duty was to convey the Message of the Quran, and then one day he would pass away.  Those who accept the Message conveyed by him will benefit their own souls.  Those who reject it will only hurt themselves ultimately.  The Quran has made it abundantly clear that after the Prophet, the life will go on and generations will keep passing by and everyone will be responsible for their own deeds.  Allah never entrusted the Prophet to find a successor, and the Prophet knew very well that that's not his responsibility.  The Prophet already had enough to take care of during his lifetime until his last days.  He was only focused on that.

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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 02:59:35 am »

Actually those Sunni circles and orientalists who accept the Ghadeer-e-Khum story is on the basis of some narration or report written by Ahmad bin Hanbal, another noted double-talker, who claims that Umar bin Khattab congratulated Imam Ali on becoming the "mawla" of all the Muslims.  It's just one those usual unfounded 'jabber jabber' by Hanbal, and readers simply pick what pleases their hearts. 
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2011, 03:00:46 am »

Right br. Pt.
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 03:03:37 am »



Btw, a famous Iranian artist called Muhammad Farshchian has also painted a picture on Ghadeer-e-khum where the Prophet (pbuh) is shown presenting Ali to a crowd of people after appointing him as successor. It can be called a nice piece of art if seen strictly from the view point of the artist's talent, but the historical context which this art depicts is a pure myth.  Everything highlighted in this painting is a tale.   It completely lacks conformity with the Quranic ideology of governance and subsequently the total lack of evidence of the Prophet (pbuh) being eager to make any such move.


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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2011, 03:06:56 am »

O!  I had never seen this painting before.  Must be a recent one  You're right.  The work is beautifully done but based on an unfounded story.
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2011, 03:10:59 am »

wow!  I like this art .... looks gorgeous.  Yeah, I mean just the piece of art.  It's the first Islamic art I've seen showing the Prophet (pbuh), though not much of the face is visible.
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2011, 03:34:46 am »

MashAllah, lovely painting ..... perfect work.  The overwhelming crowd has been painted so well and I can see there are women too in the midst of men.  Of course, this story is not authentic.  But I've heard in Iran they have similar arts on several authentic historical incidents as well, like some of the battles fought during the lifetime of the Prophet and simply the Prophet's life in Medinah.

LOL ,, I remember one Bukhari Hadith that says the Prophet had black hair and even close to the time he passed away, he had very few gray or white hair.  But this artist shows the Prophet with completely white hair.  Another contradiction on the Hadith front.

Bukhari Hadith 68 - Anas bin Malik (ra) says:
"The Messenger of Allah, ......... Allah commissioned him at the age of forty. He stayed in Mecca ten years and at Medina for ten years and Allah the Mighty, the Majestic made him die when he was sixty. There were not twenty white hairs in his hair or beard, may Allah bless him and grant him peace."


The discrepancies of this Hadith:

"He stayed in Mecca for ten yrs"  - NO, for 13 years after the call, from age 40 to 53.

died "when he was sixty"  -  No, when he was 63.

"There were not twenty white hairs in his hair or beard" -  but this pic shows all white hair.

The hadith yap-yapers believe and claim whatever they wish! 

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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2011, 03:43:39 am »

Very interesting observation sister Rose.  Such differences matter a lot and are enough to shake one's trust.  Of course contradictions much more glaring than this are strewn across all the Hadith books.   I don't see any women in the painting though ...... o, ok ... now a do, just two or three with veils.

Br. pt and sister zeynab ,, thanks a lot on that extra piece of info on Fadak and the sunnis & orientalists .. was immensely helpful.
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