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Prophet Abraham was neither Jew nor Christian


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Heba E. Husseyn
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« on: December 05, 2012, 10:45:24 am »

 

BismEm

"Or say ye that Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes were Jews or Christians ? Say: Do ye know best, or doth Allah ? And who is more unjust than he who hideth a testimony which he hath received from Allah ? Allah is not unaware of what ye do."   (2:140)  Al-Baqrah.

"O People of the Scripture! Why will ye argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him ? Have ye then no sense ?   Lo! ye are those who argue about that whereof ye have some knowledge: Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge ? Allah knoweth. Ye know not.  Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.  Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers."   (3:65-68)   Al-Imran.



Contrary to the claims of the Jews and Christians, Prophet Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian.  Abraham was a submitter to Allah alone and a Monotheist (or follower of Tawheed).  The word "Muslim"  implies believing in the Oneness of Allah and surrendering to His Will, that is, being a submitter to Allah alone.

According to some writings in the altered man-written Old Testament, Prophet Abraham is mentioned as the ancestor of the Jews.  This became one of the points of disagreement between the Jews and Christians.  Thus, the Jews claimed that Abraham was a Jew.  The Christians, refuting this information, went on to claim that he was a Christian.  It's in reply to this that Allah Almighty confirms in the Noble Quran, His Final Message, that Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, instead he was a Monotheist (follower of Tawheed) who worshiped Allah alone.  The Noble Quran also confirms that Abraham warned the people of his community, who were idolaters, not to worship idols and to worship Allah only.  But as usual, the people rejected his plea and tried to kill him.  Allah saved and protected him.

Thus, Prophet Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian.  Prophet Abraham can be called the ancestor of Monotheistic believers or the followers of Tawheed.



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Ruhi_Rose
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2012, 10:51:52 am »

I don't know about the Shiias, but I've heard many Sunni imams saying that Prophet Yaqob (grandson of Prophet Ibrahim)  had connections with Hebrew Jews.  This concept is of course not expressed in the Quran at all.  Also, it doesn't make any sense to me.  How could Yaqob (Jacob) have any connections with the Hebrews of Egypt?
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 11:05:56 am »

Beware, the altered Bibles have constructed long gossipy stories of the lives of Prophets Issac (Ishaq) and his son, Jacob (Yaqob) .. stories that are totally absent in the Noble Quran.  Therefore accept none of those myths .. even though most Sunni books accept these tales from the altered Bibles.  I'm also  not too sure about the Shiia books, but the Sunnis do accept those stories.  I think the Shiias also accept parts of the altered Biblical stories.

The Noble Quran makes it very clear that Prophet Abraham must not be called a "Jew" nor a "Christian."  Those labels were never given to him in his time.  Instead, plainly put, Prophet Abraham was a believer in Allah alone.  This means, he was a Monotheistic (Tawheed following) believer who never ascribed any partners with Allah Almighty.  The Hadith followers are at a fix.  They cannot refute the Quranic information that Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian. At the same time, since Hadith is full of Biblical stories, Hadithers believe in the altered Bibles which claim Abraham was a Jew.

Some old man-written story either in the altered Bibles or through the opinion of some Christian/Jewish clerics claims that Prophet Yaqob (son of Prophet Ishaq and grandson of Prophet Ibrahim) came from the Hebrew tribe of Judah.  They claim that the tribe of Judah descended from Yaqob (Jacob).  From this myth they further constructed the story that he was a Jew.  Needless to say, in addition to this information being completely unwarranted from the Quranic view point, it's also illogical from the historical perspective.  The Hebrew tribe had two main branches - Judah and Israel.  They were in Egypt subjugated to the Pharaohs for centuries, working as their slaves.  They set out of Egypt for the first time during the Exodus led by Prophet Moses which was at least 2,000 years after the era of Prophet Abraham and his immediate descendents including Prophet Yaqob or Jacob.   Very little or nothing is known about the Hebrew tribes during the periods of Abraham, Issac or Jacob.  But it's certainly clear from Quranic information that neither Jacob nor his father Issac nor his grandfather Abraham were connected to any Hebrew clan by the name "Judah" nor "Israel." 

The idea of claiming that the Hebrew tribe of Judah descended from Jacob is so absurd that it contradicts the Bible information itself.  The Bibles claim that Abraham was from Babylon (today known as Iraq).  If Abraham was from Babylon, then obviously his children and grandchildren also descended from the Babylonian race.  So how could Jacob have descended from the tribe of Judah in Egypt?

Most importantly, Verse 2:140 flatly refutes the idea that the Jewish tribe Judah descended from Jacob:  "Or say ye that Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes were Jews or Christians ? Say: Do ye know best, or doth Allah ? And who is more unjust than he who hideth a testimony which he hath received from Allah ? Allah is not unaware of what ye do."   (2:140).    In this Verse it is plainly stated that Jacob and his ancestors had nothing to do with any Jewish descent. 
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 11:08:44 am »

O! thanks for this very careful analysis.   This really helped me to catch the senseless belief these people keep jabbering.  Must save it and share this info with my family as well.  Many of these imams mislead their listeners so much ....
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 11:14:21 am »

Welcomed sis! Smiley   Yeah, their lectures can be very misleading.  Being a Hadith "scholar" actually means being a "scholar" of the Biblical tales. 
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 12:43:26 am »

Very useful clarification sister Heba.  I've also heard many Muslims making up stories claiming that Propet Abraham and his immediate descendents had connections with Hebrews known as "Jews" later on.  This guesswork comes from those lengthy and complicated man-written stories in the altered Old & New Testaments.  There's absolutely no evidence even according to secular historians that Hebrews were spread across any part of the Middle-East nor the globe prior to the Exodus.  Originally Hebrews were tribal people linked to Egypt only, who were turned into the "low caste" by their Egyptian rulers, the Pharaohs.  Their very first taste of freedom was the Exodus which happened two millenniums after Prophet Abraham and his immediate descendents.  The Quran also makes No mention and NO references that Prophet Abraham never belonged to any of the two Hebrew tribes of Egypt - neither Judah nor Israel. 
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 03:36:26 am »

Sorry sister Ruhi, in an attempt to answer your question, I mistakenly deleted it.  Please wait for a while.  I will restore your message again and post your answer.  My apology for the blunder.

It's a very good question. 
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 03:43:31 am »

OK sis ....  now this was your question, right?


Hummm ..
My question is .. as I was just wondering .. during the period of the Pharaohs when the Jews were living as low caste in Egypt and working like away slaves, were they followers of Tawheed or what?

Like I said, very thoughtful query.  I'll put up a detailed response with the Quran as my Sole Criterion as commanded by Allah.

It's hard to confirm that.  It's possible that Allah had sent a messenger to them hundreds or thousands of years ago telling them to embrace Monotheism (or Tawheed) but gradually with the passage of time these Hebrews became slack.  It's also hard to confirm exactly when and how they became the low caste of Egypt during the reign of the Pharaohs just the way it's hard to confirm how the caste system began in India which exists up to this day.

In the presence of so many unconfirmed and unknown aspects concerning the Hebrews, the bible writers have taken the advantage by making up tons of stories as and when the bibles kept getting altered, written, and re-written throughout the centuries to suit their needs.  In the process, they brought up their own connections between Prophet Abraham and the Hebrews which in my opinion, the Quran does NOT refer NOR does it give any reasons to presume.  The Muslim view of Prophet Abraham and his family having Hebrew connections is clearly from the altered bibles.

To answer your question, I will quote directly from the altered bible as an example.  I will first paraphrase the biblical information of how they constructed the connection between Abraham's family and the Hebrews, and then I will also quote those verses of the altered bible which is taken from the biblical version named "King James" - 'Exodus 1:8-14' -

It says that famine broke out in the land of Canaan (ancient name of today's Gaza) during the period when Prophet Yusuf (Josef) was in Egypt.  The circumstances of Prophet Yusuf being in Egypt is correct because that is confirmed by the Quran, Surah Yusuf, Chapter 12.  I won't repeat the Quranic information of Prophet's Yusuf's life as given in Surah 12 because  we all know it.  Therefore, keeping the Quranic information of Surah 12 in mind, we can compare the Hadith /Christian views and separate the truth from the guesswork along with the root of constructing a Hebrew connection for Prophet Abraham's family.

Now let's briefly check the biblical story of Prophet Yusuf in the altered bible which constructs this connection.

The bible says that Yusuf was sold by his brothers into slavery and he was taken to Egypt.  He ended up in the Pharoah's house and eventually became second in command to Pharaoh.  When Yusuf's brothers came from Canaan to Egypt during the famine to seek food, Yusuf instructed them to bring their father, Jacob (Yakob) with his entire family and settle in Egypt  (as we know, Jacob was the grandson of Abraham).  Subsequently Jacob and his family moved to Egypt, and in Egypt their help was requested for building two cities for the Pharaoh.  Those two cities were called Pitom and Ramsees.  Initially they were paid for their services.  But with the death of Jacob and all his sons, including Yusuf, and with new Pharoahs coming to power who forgot the greatness of Yusuf and his ancestors, the relationship between the descendents of Jacob and the Pharaoh rulers changed and the rulers started treating them like slaves.   The bible further adds that one of the 12 sons of Jacob (brother of Yusuf) was called Levi.  He was the longest surviving brother and died last of all, and Levi was not involved in this employment relationship with the Pharaoh.  The bible also mentions that his descendents were known as the tribe of Levi who did not work as slaves for the Pharaohs.  But these verses of the altered bible do not mention how the two big Hebrew tribal clans named "Israel" and "Judah" were formed.  From where did they get these names?

Next step ::  Now let's check how much of the above information is compatible with the Noble Quran. 

First of all, the Quran does not mention any of the names of Prophet Yusuf's brothers.  There's no one called "Levi" in the Quran.   The Quran also does not mention the exact number of brothers Yusuf had.  The Quran does tell us that Yusuf ended up in Egypt and in the ruler's house, and that he eventually became a custodian of the  store-house of food grains.  But the Quran does not give us any reason to presume that Yusuf became second in command to the Pharaoh.  Being a custodian of the store-house is very different from being the number 2 of the country.  Then again, yes, the Quran does tell us that in the end after he confronted his brothers of what they had done to him, Yusuf called his parents to Egypt and his parents did arrive in Egypt.  But whether or not Yusuf and his parents and the entire family stayed in Egypt forever is not confirmed by the Quran .. and therefore there is no question of confirming that they had an employment agreement with the Pharaoh.  Subsequently there is also no way of confirming that their families got divided into tribal clans in Egypt later know as the Hebrew tribe across thousands of years.

It is also interesting to note the contradiction within the altered biblical information itself.  This version of the altered bible from which I've taken the information I've mentioned above presumes that Jacob, his son Yusuf and all of their immediate family lived, worked and died in Egypt and their tribal clans also sprouted henceforth.  Contents of other biblical versions claim that Prophet Yusuf (Josef) died in Palestine.  Some biblical information presume that Yusuf died in the city of Hebron, which is situated in today's Israeli occupied West Bank and is quite far from both Canaan (Gaza) and Egypt.  In fact, the Jews and Christians also claim that Yusuf's tomb in situated in the south corner of the 'sanctuary of the partiarchs' known as Al-Haram-Al-Ibrahimi in Hebron (West Bank, Palestine).  So, if Yusuf and his family lived permanently in Egypt, how come Yusuf's tomb is all the way in Hebron?

The man-written biblical stories on all prophets from Noah to David and Soloman are in a total mess because of the constant interference and alterations of the truth.  Jewish rabbis and Christian clerics of every generation tampered with the Divine Scrupture, changing the original and replacing it with their own stories.  Obviously it will be full of contradictions, unconfirmed information and glaring falsehoods.   

Hence, as Allah says, we must use only the Noble Quran as our Sole Criterion for judging true or false and right or wrong.  If there's any story which does not conform with the Quran because the Quran does not mention it, then we must leave it there with the words "Allah knows best" and NOT build our own stories to attract the readers' attention.  This is how lies and falsehoods are created and once created, they keep proliferating. 




Btw ..

The following is the biblical quote which I've paraphrased above:  It's from "king James version - Exodus, 1:8-14"

8 - Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
9 - And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we:
10 - Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.
11 - Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.
12 - But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel.
13 - And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour:
14 - And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 03:48:43 am »

Aw!  Smiley  No problem sis.  Wow!!  Thanks for all these facts.  Lemme sit down comfortably with a cup a coffee and read it carefully ......
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 06:13:27 am »

Many, many thanks my sis.  I just finished reading this step by step and reflected much.  Your points make plenty of sense.  

The bible distortions are so damned confusion.  The Muslims shouldn't be bothered about it.  But the problem is that they bring a lot of that distortion into Islam thru the Hadith and articles of the so-called ulemas.
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« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 06:52:43 am »

MashAllah, thanks for elaborating my article with great Quranic points and making it far more complete sister Zeynab.

That bit about Prophet Yusuf's tomb in Hebron, I read somewhere (don't recall where but some Christian source) something to the affect that Yusuf died in Egypt and then his body was embalmed and sent to Hebron for burial.  But I am absolutely sure that this is another concocted story, the purpose of it being to make it tally with their first guesswork that Yusuf's family settled in Egypt.  If Yusuf's body was sent to Hebron, then what about his father, Jacob?  Why wasn't his body sent as well if burial in Hebron was so important for the family?  The movie on Prophet Yusuf (a Muslim production) is based precisely on this biblical story.  That movie showed that Jacob was living in Babylon (today's Iraq).  Then he got the message that his father, Prophet Ishaq (or Issac) who lived in Canaan (today's Gaza) had passed away so he left Babylon and went to settle down in Canaan with his entire family.   After a few years Jacob lost his son Yusuf while living in Canaan.  Then after some 30 years Jacob's family went to Egypt after being called by Yusuf.  As you rightly mentioned, according to Quranic info there's no reason to presume that Jacob's family lived in Egypt permanently and never returned to Canaan.  There's also no reason to presume that Yusuf, after uniting with his father and family, never left Egypt.  What's the connection of Prophet Abraham with Hebron is again unknown.  Probably one will need to rummage through many more pages of the altered bibles to catch on with more gossip to find that out.

As per Quranic contents, we do know that Prophet Ishmael (or Ismail) settled in Mecca permanently and his father, Prophet Abraham was in Mecca for a certain period when they built the Kaa'ba.  This is quite evident from Verse 14:37 of Surah Ibraheem.

"Our Lord! Lo! I have settled some of my posterity in an uncultivable valley near unto Thy holy House, our Lord! that they may establish proper worship; so incline some hearts of men that they may yearn toward them, and provide Thou them with fruits in order that they may be thankful."

In this Verse which is Prophet Ibraheem's prayer to Allah, he says that he has "settled some of my posterity in an uncultivable valley near unto Thy holy House ...."    The word "posterity" means 'future generation' or 'offspring' and "uncultivable valley" refers to Mecca.  Therefore Prophet Ibraheem says that he has made his future generation settle down in Mecca near the Kaa'ba.  "Posterity" refers to Ibraheem's son, Ismail.  It's also quite evident that Prophet Ibraheem made this dua to Allah after building the Kaa'ba with his son, Ismail, thus he says "near unto Thy holy House."  From this Verse we can also presume (though Allah knows best) that probably after building the Kaa'ba and helping his son, Ismail, to settle down in Mecca, Prophet Ibraheem left Mecca and returned to other members of his family.  That's why he says in his dua to Allah that he made his offspring to settle down in Mecca near the Kaa'ba, he doesn't mention about himself settling down there.  But where he returned and where exactly other members of his family were living is not known.  Only Allah knows that.   And .. apparently it's from this time that the people of the Arabian peninsula began to learn and practice Tawheed, through the teachings of Prophet Ibraheem and his son, Ismail, who settled in Mecca.  But this was more than 2,000 years before Prophet Muhammed.   That's why Allah sent the another messenger to Mecca (that is Prophet Muhammed, the Final Messenger) because during those 2,000 years after Ibraheem and Ismail the people of Mecca gradually forgot their teachings and lapsed back to idolatry.  And for this reason in the Quran, Allah keeps reminding the idolaters of Mecca about the teachings of Prophet Ibraheem and that Prophet Muhammed had come to revive the teachings of Ibraheem and Ismail.

Thanks again sisters, for the good question and good answer.
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« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 07:08:59 am »

That was good sister Heba and a great additional help.  I agree with your opinion over that gossip about Prophet Yusuf's body being embalmed.  Furthermore, you have followed the course of the introduction of Tawheed in Mecca through Prophet Ibrahim & Ismail, its gradual renounciation by the people and then again the reintroduction of Tawheed by the Final Messenger very neatly.

Thus, in the absence of confirmed information, the Hebrews must be taken as one of the communities of ancient Egypt made into 'low caste' by autocratic rulers  ..  just as there are different communities in many countries, and the caste system came about in Egypt on the same lines as caste system came about in India and still survives.

That's all we need to know about the Hebrews.  If there are any more truthful details, only Allah knows them and if He wishes He will tell us on the Day of Judgment.   The bible writers must stop weaving tales and gossips. 

That would be my conclusion .... what would you say?  Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2012, 07:11:13 am »

Excellent sum up!  I give you full marks for that  Cheesy
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 07:42:18 am »

What a great thread filled with a wealth of truth-seeking information.  Subhan'Allah, may Allah continue to guide us all.

In my opinion Hebrews were a community of Egypt.  They may have been unprivileged or poor just as certain communities in many countries are known to be unprivileged and poor.  That led to the rulers of that land to turn them into low caste slaves.  We can only presume up to this point and leave the rest to Allah.

Allah also says in the Quran that He knows with whom to place His Message.  Thus, it's very possible that Allah chose Prophet Moses (who belonged to the Hebrews brought up at Pharaoh's house) as His messenger to the people of Egypt and specifically to lead the Hebrews out of slavery.  This was a favor to the Hebrews to make them realize the evil of tyranny, never to practice it on others and to thanks Allah for His mercy on them.  But as the Quran states and as we have seen for ourselves, the Jews (now called Zionists) never learned any lessons from their past sufferings nor did they ever thank Allah for His favors to them. 

Many of those biblical stories are quite recent, constructed and re-constructed, edited and re-edited within the last one hundred years to suit various political developments in Europe and North America.  Through these stories they try to persuade the world that the Jews were always special people and never slaves. They also try to mislead the world into thinking that Egypt was not the indigenous homeland of Hebrews and that the Hebrews had connections with Palestine since much before the time of Prophet Moses.  That's why they have altered all authentic history, even deny the Exodus and claim that Hebrews lived in Canaan before becoming slaves and that the famine in Canaan drove them to Egypt and that's how they ended up in Egypt.   Neither the Quran nor any reliable historical source in the middle ages support this information.  The only confirmed information we have is that Prophet Yusuf ended up in Egypt and lived there for several years and later his parents and family also went to meet him there.  After that, what might have been their future decisions is known to Allah alone as rightly described by sisters Zeynab and Heba.  And as they correctly suggested, there is no reason to presume that they settled there forever with their future generations being divided into tribal clans.  Nor is there any reason to presume that they went to settle in Hebron nor are there any other specifics available about this issue.

Moeover, I think to myself, the Noble Quran gives every relevant information and its connections very clearly.  Prophet Ibrahim is a very important messenger and personality in the Noble Quran.  At the same time, the Quran narrates the history of bani Israel quite frequently as well.  If Prophet Ibrahim's family had any links with the Hebrews, the Quran would have stated it.  Instead the Quran categorically states in Verse quoted by sister Heba that "Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian;"  Now think of it this way:  The Hebrew tribe had 2 major clans - Israel and Judah.  The term "Jew" comes from the clan-name "Judah."   Allah clearly states that Abraham was neither a Jew nor Christian.  Therefore, if Abraham's close descendents had any links with the clan of Judah, why would Allah state that Abraham was not a Jews?  But the words of Allah are the final ones.  Only HE knows the complete truth of every matter.  When He has made it crystal clear that Abraham had no connections with Jews nor Christians, hence Muslims must stop following the biblical stories by creating a link between Jacob's family and the Hebrews of Egypt.
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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 12:32:23 pm »



Allah also says in the Quran that He knows with whom to place His Message.  Thus, it's very possible that Allah chose Prophet Moses (who belonged to the Hebrews brought up at Pharaoh's house) as His messenger to the people of Egypt and specifically to lead the Hebrews out of slavery.  This was a favor to the Hebrews to make them realize the evil of tyranny, never to practice it on others and to thanks Allah for His mercy on them.  But as the Quran states and as we have seen for ourselves, the Jews (now called Zionists) never learned any lessons from their past sufferings nor did they ever thank Allah for His favors to them. 


Moeover, I think to myself, the Noble Quran gives every relevant information and its connections very clearly.  Prophet Ibrahim is a very important messenger and personality in the Noble Quran.  At the same time, the Quran narrates the history of bani Israel quite frequently as well.  If Prophet Ibrahim's family had any links with the Hebrews, the Quran would have stated it.  Instead the Quran categorically states in Verse quoted by sister Heba that "Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian;"  Now think of it this way:  The Hebrew tribe had 2 major clans - Israel and Judah.  The term "Jew" comes from the clan-name "Judah."   Allah clearly states that Abraham was neither a Jew nor Christian.  Therefore, if Abraham's close descendents had any links with the clan of Judah, why would Allah state that Abraham was not a Jews?  But the words of Allah are the final ones.  Only HE knows the complete truth of every matter.  When He has made it crystal clear that Abraham had no connections with Jews nor Christians, hence Muslims must stop following the biblical stories by creating a link between Jacob's family and the Hebrews of Egypt.

JazekAllah khair for your brilliant input br. PT.  These 2 points particularly are new feedbacks for me which didn't come to my mind earlier.

There are a lot of Hadithers who embrace biblical bid'ah.  It might be a good idea if you take up this topic in your monthly discussions as an agenda (if you guys are still holding the periodical discussions) and mention all the points elucidated across this thread.  How about that brother pt?
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