Prophet Abraham was neither Jew nor Christian

[N. Truth Seeker]

Thank you sister.   Yes we are having the monthly discussions quite regularly though I missed it last month because of some obligations at home.  You're right it would be a very good idea to bring this up.  The problem is that bringing up any issue that exposes the unauthenticity and the inferiority of the Hadith and altered bibles compared to the Noble Quran gets the Hadithists very upset.  Their only way to deal with it is to waver off topic and talk on needless topics and bore me.  They never come up with any direct answers to the queries I put.  For that reason I usually attend only those group discussions that are based on the Quran alone.   We are informed of the agenda a week earlier thru email.  If I see the agenda comprising of a Hadith issue or some issue where I'm sure they will misinterpret the Quranic verses to make them compatible with Hadith, then I keep away from such discussions.  In any case I'm quite happy with the progress I'm making on my own concerning my search for truth and Allah's guidance.  Alhumdulilah.  Many of these people at the discussion group say such incorrect things that I think it's better to keep away.

[Heba E. Husseyn]

Ah!  I understand, I understand so very well.  You are spot on brother.  Many a times my family and I also feel it's a lot better to isolate ourselves from the rest.  It's so difficult to find folks who loyally stick to the Quran only.  More often than not, their loyalty comes first for their imams & "scholars," not for the Quran.  And yes, they say a LOT of wrong stuff.  By the grace of Allah our faith is strong and we will never get distracted by their talk.  But some people who are learning and have scant knowledge can easily get misled by their manipulations.

[N. Truth Seeker]

Exactly sister.  One needs to be very careful.

[muslima]

 


WOW  fully loaded with knowledge ,deeply analysis,  Mashallah  guys  this  post splendidly deliver the major important explanation,information of history  i like it 
 
in fact it's grandiose dose for folks have habit of argue about prophet ibrahim (pbuh) and other prophets and their families and have choked their brains with men-made tales installed in their brains  and actually following the altered bible under the lable of islamic books .so called history


 better to called hadith literature and  trash history !!  muslim version of altered bible

.Do they know the meaning of Tawheed ? No


Lo! Abraham was a nation obedient to Allah, by nature upright, and he was not of the idolaters; 16:120
 

Allumdullilah  every verse of Glorious Quran is so magnificent  and informs us  that prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) was Ummah's righteous leader in religion, always obedient to Allah and that he rejected Shirk, in all its manifestations and devoted himself exclusively to the worship of Allah , Alone, without falling into Shirk, either in word, deed or belief.. prophet ibrahim was the follower Tawheed


info about  Hebrews and prophet yusuf is exclusive one    

12 son's of prophet yaqub is really disturbing where from this number come if Quran does not mention ?




 


ohh yeah u are right sis !! this is a script of the movie or tv series Prophet Yusuf (Joseph) shiatv . I was so sure director borrow the idea from some where  must be linked with false history but director stole the entire altered bible  to promote too much unquranic information .
 


here are few questions ?


 Q : False history also claim that prophet ishaq /Isaac have twins  ??


prophet ishaq/Isaac's  wife  gave birth to a set of twins, Esau (al-'Eis) and Jacob (Ya'qub) ,prophet ishaq loved more prophet yaqub then esau .Esau disliked the fact that Jacob was favored by his father and by Allah with prophethood. This ill feeling became so serious that Esau threatened to kill his brother. Fearing for his life, Jaqub/Jacob (Ya'qub)  fled the country and so on  bundle of lies 

??


Q: twelve tribes ??


We divided them into twelve tribes, nations; and We inspired Moses, when his people asked him for water, saying: Smite with thy staff the rock! And there gushed forth therefrom twelve springs, so that each tribe knew their drinking place. And we caused the white cloud to overshadow them and sent down for them the manna and the quails (saying): Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you. They wronged Us not, but they were wont to wrong themselves. surah al-A`raf  7:160


 ! help me to understand this please .. We divided them into twelve tribes, nations ??

[muslima]

What a great thread filled with a wealth of truth-seeking information.  Subhan'Allah, may Allah continue to guide us all.

In my opinion Hebrews were a community of Egypt.  They may have been unprivileged or poor just as certain communities in many countries are known to be unprivileged and poor.  That led to the rulers of that land to turn them into low caste slaves.  We can only presume up to this point and leave the rest to Allah.

Allah also says in the Quran that He knows with whom to place His Message.  Thus, it's very possible that Allah chose Prophet Moses (who belonged to the Hebrews brought up at Pharaoh's house) as His messenger to the people of Egypt and specifically to lead the Hebrews out of slavery.  This was a favor to the Hebrews to make them realize the evil of tyranny, never to practice it on others and to thanks Allah for His mercy on them.  But as the Quran states and as we have seen for ourselves, the Jews (now called Zionists) never learned any lessons from their past sufferings nor did they ever thank Allah for His favors to them. 

Many of those biblical stories are quite recent, constructed and re-constructed, edited and re-edited within the last one hundred years to suit various political developments in Europe and North America.  Through these stories they try to persuade the world that the Jews were always special people and never slaves. They also try to mislead the world into thinking that Egypt was not the indigenous homeland of Hebrews and that the Hebrews had connections with Palestine since much before the time of Prophet Moses.  That's why they have altered all authentic history, even deny the Exodus and claim that Hebrews lived in Canaan before becoming slaves and that the famine in Canaan drove them to Egypt and that's how they ended up in Egypt.   Neither the Quran nor any reliable historical source in the middle ages support this information.  The only confirmed information we have is that Prophet Yusuf ended up in Egypt and lived there for several years and later his parents and family also went to meet him there.  After that, what might have been their future decisions is known to Allah alone as rightly described by sisters Zeynab and Heba.  And as they correctly suggested, there is no reason to presume that they settled there forever with their future generations being divided into tribal clans.  Nor is there any reason to presume that they went to settle in Hebron nor are there any other specifics available about this issue.

Moeover, I think to myself, the Noble Quran gives every relevant information and its connections very clearly.  Prophet Ibrahim is a very important messenger and personality in the Noble Quran.  At the same time, the Quran narrates the history of bani Israel quite frequently as well.  If Prophet Ibrahim's family had any links with the Hebrews, the Quran would have stated it.  Instead the Quran categorically states in Verse quoted by sister Heba that "Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian;"  Now think of it this way:  The Hebrew tribe had 2 major clans - Israel and Judah.  The term "Jew" comes from the clan-name "Judah."   Allah clearly states that Abraham was neither a Jew nor Christian.  Therefore, if Abraham's close descendents had any links with the clan of Judah, why would Allah state that Abraham was not a Jews?  But the words of Allah are the final ones.  Only HE knows the complete truth of every matter.  When He has made it crystal clear that Abraham had no connections with Jews nor Christians, hence Muslims must stop following the biblical stories by creating a link between Jacob's family and the Hebrews of Egypt.

Mashallah Allah bless u   
special thanks bro for ur deep observation to highlight the truth it must be published  everywhere .ummah and entire world can understand the bitter truth

[Heba E. Husseyn]

 Q : False history also claim that prophet ishaq /Isaac have twins  ??


prophet ishaq/Isaac's  wife  gave birth to a set of twins, Esau (al-'Eis) and Jacob (Ya'qub) ,prophet ishaq loved more prophet yaqub then esau .Esau disliked the fact that Jacob was favored by his father and by Allah with prophethood. This ill feeling became so serious that Esau threatened to kill his brother. Fearing for his life, Jaqub/Jacob (Ya'qub)  fled the country and so on  bundle of lies 

??

Walaikum Salaam sister Muslima.  Thanks for the questions.  I had read of the above some time ago but not in detail.  After reading parts of this story I knew it was another biblical fib with no confirmations of it in the Quran.  Such myths are common in the altered bibles.  The outline of this story is supposed to be the contrast between two brothers.   Isaac (Prophet Abraham's son) had twins, Jacob and Esau.  According to the bible writers, Jacob and Esau had very different characters & temperaments.  While Jacob was intelligent, perceptive and with a deep love for God Almighty, Esau was the opposite.  He didn't care of religion.  The thought of Allah was a burden for him.  According to bible version Genesis 25:19-34; 27, power, wealth, feasting and reveling meant happiness to Esau.  He felt delighted in the unrestrained freedom of his wild and roving life.   And of course the story goes on and on with complicated details.  I never bother with such nonsense.  It's completely unwarranted in the Quran.  The Noble Quran never mentions nor even remotely hints that any close descendent of Prophet Abraham (least of all his grandson) was of such loose character.  The only thing we know for sure as confirmed in the Quran is that Jacob (Yakob) was the son of Isaac and grandson of Abraham, and Jacob like his father and grandfather was a very pious man and of the line of the Prophets.  You will observe that many stories of the man-written bibles defame several Prophets.  For example, there is one story in the bible that says Prophet Noah was a "drunkard."  Then various other versions of the bibles accuse Prophet David (Daud) of murder and adultery.  We seek refuge in Allah from such falsehoods and fitna that slander the pious messengers of Allah who have been confirmed as righteous by Allah in His Final Message.  You might like to read this MV article which highlights how the bibles have defamed Prophet David with false info that completely clash with the Noble Quran. 
Does the Quran refer to the story of David and Bathsheba?

Q: twelve tribes ??


We divided them into twelve tribes, nations; and We inspired Moses, when his people asked him for water, saying: Smite with thy staff the rock! And there gushed forth therefrom twelve springs, so that each tribe knew their drinking place. And we caused the white cloud to overshadow them and sent down for them the manna and the quails (saying): Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you. They wronged Us not, but they were wont to wrong themselves. surah al-A`raf  7:160


 ! help me to understand this please .. We divided them into twelve tribes, nations ??

This refers to the time of the Exodus when Prophet Musa had taken bani Israel out of Egypt from the clutches of Pharaoh and they were on their way to the land of the Philistine (today's Palestine).  In those days traveling was by foot so it took many days even to go from Egypt to Palestine.  And some time during his period, Prophet Musa also stopped and temporarily departed, making his brother Aaron (Haroon) in charge of taking care of the people in his absense.  It was when Prophet Musa went to receive Allah's revelations, known as the 10 Commandments. 

As mentioned earlier, the Hebrews in Egypt were divided into several tribes.  Apparently that's the reference in this Verse.  Thus, this Verse elucidates that the Hebrews had a total of 12 tribes altogether.  Allah has not mentioned the names of those tribes.  According to historical info the 2 major Hebrew tirbes were Israel and Judah .. and the term "Jew" is supposed to come from Judah. Allah mentions His favors on bani Israel that while they were traveling across the desert He provided them with fresh water from streams - 12 streams for the 12 tribes - and also provided them with the manna and the quails, that is, food coming from the sky for bani Israel by the will and command of Allah.  Yet the bani Israel were not grateful to Allah for His favors.

[muslima]

 


I am sorry sis heba to get back to you late my net was troubling me .....

jazak Allah khair sister Heba  thanks to answer my both questions in detail ..hmm alright i understand surah al-A`raf  7:160 and twelve tribes   


 

that's indigestible ! prophet committed adultery ??? 

Prophet Noah was a "drunkard."  ??   

Prophet David (Daud) of murder and adultery ?? 

minor error of his own desire following . isn't    ?? better to read ur discussion in post ....

[Zainab_M]

Salaams all.  Just for your information, I would like to draw your attention to Verse 20 of Surah Al-Maidah, Chapter 5, of the Noble Quran.  When I came across this Verse today, I reflected upon my discussion on this thread linked with sister Ruhi's question. 

"And (remember) when Moses said unto his people: O my people! Remember Allah's favour unto you, how He placed among you prophets, and He made you kings, and gave you that (which) He gave not to any (other) of (His) creatures."  (5:20).

Maududi's commentary of this Verse is as follows:

"This refers to the past glory of the Israelites that they enjoyed at a much earlier period before the advent of Moses. On the one hand, Prophets of the high rank of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph were raised among them; on the other, they won great political power in Egypt during the time of the Prophet Joseph and after him. For a long time they remained the greatest rulers of their time in the then civilized world, and their currency was in circulation not only in Egypt but also in the countries around it.

In contrast to the general belief that the glory of the Israelites begins with the advent of the Prophet Moses, the Qur'an makes it clear here that the period of their real glory and greatness had passed long before him and he himself was holding that period before his people as an instance of their glorious past."

Maududi's explanation is thought provoking but still not a confirmation of everything he has mentioned.  He has referred to the past of the Jews as the period which began from Prophet Yusuf in Egypt and prior to that tracing the lineage of Prophets Abraham to Jacob. 

Then, if you read Verse 5:20, it states that Allah granted to the Israelites Prophets and also made them kings as the favors from Him in the past,  So, if we reflect to what extent this confirms the tafsir of Maududi ..... I would call it a possibility but not a confirmation.  First of all nowhere in the Quran and neither in this Verse has Allah mentioned any connections between Abraham's family and the Israelites of Egypt.  Prophet Abraham's family has never been referred to as ancestors of "Bani Israel" anywhere in the Quran.  Secondly, the Quran also does not mention of anyone from Abraham's family becoming a king nor kings.  Prophet Yusuf is mentioned as a very respected person in Egypt who was custodian of the storehouse.  This was an important position no doubt but not a king.  The Quran does not mention of any of Yusuf's children or brothers becoming kings.  And of course there's also no mention of any of Yusuf's ancestors (i.e. Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael or Jacob) being kings.  They were Prophets, not kings.  So, what we can presume is that obviously the Hebrews had been living in Egypt or may be somewhere outside Egypt since long before Prophet Moses, not as slaves or low caste but as important members of the society.  During this time Allah also sent Prophets and kings to them.  In case at any time the Hebrew tribes were living outside Egypt, then how and when they moved into Egypt is completely unknown in history.  But if that did happen, then it must have happened at least a few hundreds of years before Moses.  This means more than 3,000 years from now. 

In conclusion: The actual history of this Verse 5:20 is only known to Allah.  But it does not give us any reason to confirm that Prophet Abraham's family & immediate descendents were connected with the Hebrews of Moses's time.

[Heba E. Husseyn]

Thank you for bringing up V.5:20, sister Zeynab.  I had reflected on this Verse several times before but instinctively I never connected it with Prophet Abraham's family.  You're right, it's thought-provoking but it's not a confirmation to everything mentioned by Maulana Maududi in his tafsir.  You already analyzed that in a way I quite understand.  And certainly V.5:20 in no way confirms any of those long & complicated stories contained in the altered Old & New Testaments on Prophet Abraham's family.  

The Verse is surely reflecting upon concerning the ancient status of the Jews as it does clearly mention of them as a privileged lot prior to Moses's period. But the information in the Verse is very generally.  The details are totally unknown to us and known only to Allah.  Unfortunately the speculations coming from the people primarily because of the altered bibles are too many.