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Gezi Park and the embattled 'Sultan Erdogan Pasha'

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N. Truth Seeker
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2013, 06:49:42 pm »

@ Sister Zeynab.   I second your opinion on Iran's double standards in connection with what recently happened in Egypt.  It disgusts me just as much.  But it's the government's stance, not the Iranian people.  90% of the people didn't like Morsi and are happy at his ouster.  Support of Morsi in Iran is confined to a small section of elderly citizens only and the government.   Back in the 1970s, when the Iranian revolution was stirring up and finally succeeded in 1979, the Ikhwans of Egypt supported it.  It's basically in memory of it that the Iranian government is supporting Morsi.  However, that too is a fallacious outlook.  In the 1970s the sectarian divide between sunnis and shiias weren't that deep as at present.  Evolvement of Wahabiism/Salafiism with all its violence and hostility weren't as serious as today.  Iran is overlooking this issue and trying to return MB's goodwill of the yester years.  The glaring oversight of the Iranian government lies in the realism that times have changed completely.  Today, if foreign hands along with a few local treacherous elements try to overthrow the government of post-revolution Iran, the MB will almost certainly back the opponents of Iran.  I recall in 2011 when Egyptians were rallying to topple Mubarak, the Iranian dissidents living in the US with the help of George Soros again tried to ignite trouble in Iran but they failed to gather more than 300 people.   Yet many Egyptians who were then backing the MB were supporting that minority in Iran and were unable to perceive the scheme.  The Iranian government, in its attempt to be a protagonist of Islamic unity, is surely making some serious misjudgments.  But most of its people don't support such perceptions of their government.
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« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2013, 06:29:03 am »

I'm sure you're right brother.  It's the policy of the government which doesn't represent the thoughts of the majority within Iran. In fact I observed much the same at Facebook until I deactivated my a/c a day prior to the start of Ramadan.
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« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2013, 08:22:00 am »

I also find it interesting that Iranians and Turks are the most hostile against Islam on internet. I've seen some Pakistanis and Arab atheists as well of course, but nowhere near the number of Iranians and Turks who are constantly mocking Islam and Muslims. Baqara 13 always comes to my mind when dealing with this trash.

"And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not."




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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2013, 05:47:43 pm »

Excellent Verse.  So true of the disbelievers. 

Atheists and agnostics exist in all communities and they're all just as repugnant .. their repugnance ensuing from a foundation of arrogance, sarcasm and false sense of intellectualism.

Iranians are now divided into two distinct categories - post and pre revolution Iranians.  Pre revolution Iranians are mostly living abroad commonly known as the Iranian dissidents.  I've come across so many of them in the internet and on television.  Their sole aim in life is to fight Islam, to fight Monotheism.  Some call themselves atheists.  Some identify themselves with zoroastrianism and ancient pagan Persian culture.  They're easy preys of MOSSAD, CIA and other Western intelligentsia to wreck havoc within post-revolution Iran in whatever way they can.  May Allah Almighty throw all such ones in the lowest depth of the tall orange flames of Hellfire.  Ameen.
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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2013, 02:25:45 pm »

Yes, false sense of intellectualism, which I assume stems from arrogance and self-delusion. They desperately try to delude themselves into thinking that they won't be held accountable for anything and that life happened by pure chance. I've even heard atheists saying things like atheists have a higher IQ and nonsense like that.. it baffles me how they aren't aware of the absurdity of their claims.
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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2013, 08:58:20 pm »

Exactly brother.  That's the sort of darkness their minds are engulfed in.  In fact, I had to endure one such demonic mind yesterday but not for long.  Last evening I spoke on phone after many years to a lady who used to be a good friend of mine in college.  What I unexpectedly discovered was the worst nightmare scenario anyone can imagine. I don't know how, but she's turned into a weird atheist.  She claims she reads the Quran to know of certain legal & social aspects but does not believe in Life Hereafter, doesn't even want to talk about it and insisted loudly "this life is the only one."  I had no other choice but to calmly tell her that I am no more compatible with her, never wish to talk to her again and then I hung up.  One might say, we should pray to Allah to grant guidance to such people.  But frankly, I think they're too unworthy for His guidance.  They simply need Hellfire.
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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2013, 02:49:09 am »

What I unexpectedly discovered was the worst nightmare scenario anyone can imagine. I don't know how, but she's turned into a weird atheist.  She claims she reads the Quran to know of certain legal & social aspects but does not believe in Life Hereafter, doesn't even want to talk about it and insisted loudly "this life is the only one."  I had no other choice but to calmly tell her that I am no more compatible with her, never wish to talk to her again and then I hung up.  One might say, we should pray to Allah to grant guidance to such people.  But frankly, I think they're too unworthy for His guidance.  They simply need Hellfire.

It's their own negligence and drifting away into deviance that frightens them and their lingering guilt gets them aggressive & agitated towards believers.  These folks are a lost cause.
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« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2013, 02:49:49 am »

I agree with you sister Zeynab, I have also come to the conclusion that those kind of people are literally begging Allah for punishment. I saw some atheists cite scientific studies that supposedly prove that atheists have a higher IQ than religious people. So what does this tell us about so-called scientists and scientific research? I no longer take 'science' seriously anymore. Because when people (so-called scientists) are involved you can expect all sorts of manipulation, lies and propaganda that have nothing to do with truth. They are openly lying to further their own worldview.

Was that woman a former Muslim?
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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2013, 03:00:13 am »

It's their own negligence and drifting away into deviance that frightens them and their lingering guilt gets them aggressive & agitated towards believers.  These folks are a lost cause.

That is pretty accurate, the term kafir means conceal for a reason. 
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« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2013, 12:53:15 am »

I agree with you sister Zeynab, I have also come to the conclusion that those kind of people are literally begging Allah for punishment. I saw some atheists cite scientific studies that supposedly prove that atheists have a higher IQ than religious people. So what does this tell us about so-called scientists and scientific research? I no longer take 'science' seriously anymore. Because when people (so-called scientists) are involved you can expect all sorts of manipulation, lies and propaganda that have nothing to do with truth. They are openly lying to further their own worldview.

Was that woman a former Muslim?

There could be some circles of atheists who nurture such absurdities. I'd put nothing past them.  But realistically, I have never known nor read of any universally credible nor accepted scientific research claiming something as bizarre as "atheists having a higher IQ."   According to such biased men & women who claim to be "scientists," if atheists have the highest IQ, then agnostics would have the second highest, lukewarm religionists third highest and practicing believers the lowest.  It goes according to their like and dislikes of ideologies, and the expression "scientific study" is the eye-wash that sweeps the laggards off their feet with their blind reliance that a "scientist" can never err.   The truth being that such a rash generalization is itself glaringly symbolic of a low IQ.  To categorize humans according to their differing beliefs & opinions by assigning them different levels of intelligence is nothing beyond a brazen show of intolerance, absurd judgmentalism and outright bloody-mindedness.  It's the essence of atheistic arrogance I referred to earlier.  And these are the people who are supposed to be the champions of tolerance and respect.

What about those scores of practicing Muslim teachers, lecturers, professors and heads of departments in various Western universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, Princeton, Berkeley, UCLA etc., most of whom are doctorates, teaching a variety of different subjects with far more successful careers as academics than their local counterparts?  The British healthcare today has many more Middle-Eastern and Asian physicians and surgeons than Brits.  It's getting the same in Canada.  All other fields like information technology, engineering, law, chartered accountancy and so on, consist of countless number of practicing Muslim immigrants in dozens of Western countries despite the obstacles.  Are they all supposed to have lower IQs than their indigenous counterparts?   Preposterous! 

Atheists also forget that according to recent statistics, 25,000 Americans in the US are reverting to Islam every year.  6,000 nationwide conversions in Britain every year, and 5,000  each year in Germany and France.  Has the West started producing more people with low IQs?   

Pitting science against religion is itself a silly and blunderous approach atheists indulge in.  Science compliments Faith, it doesn't reject Faith.  If ignorant minds cannot see that in the right perspective is a different matter. There are numerous facts of science not yet known to 'experts.'  There are plenty of "scientific" occurrences, the causes of which are not known to researchers despite the discovery of those occurrences.  Though every amazing phenomenon in the earth and the universe (big and small) is designed by none else but Allah Almighty, humans at the slightest of breakthrough involving a 'discovery' exult as if they're telling Allah something He didn't know.  It's only the human mind with its infinite darkness that can sink into such depths of raving madness!   Pride takes them to sin and thus obscuring the truth that every discovery is a 'discovery' only for humans, NOT for Allah.

"Say: Would ye inform Allah of (something) that He knoweth not in the heavens or in the earth ? Praised be He and High Exalted above all that ye associate (with Him)!"  (10:18).

Concerning that woman gone unspeakably astray, she comes from a Sunni Muslim family who basically comprise of Muslims only by name.  I'm not in touch with them any more.  But whatever I knew of them years ago, except for one brother of hers, they all gave the impression of being secularists and more into poetry & eloquence of words rather than Faith.  As I knew her several years ago, she could be termed a Muslim back then but only a ritualistic Muslim, not a perceptive nor intelligent one. However, I never heard her nor any other member of her family being as outrageous as I heard her day before yesterday.  That was absolutely abominable!  It told me yet again the extent to which the human mind is inclined to deterioration and degradation.
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« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2013, 12:59:08 am »

Brother Ozcan .. you might like to check the following two posts I had put up a few months ago, exposing the entire winding course of the flaws of disbelief and why they keep stumbling against those flaws persistently.   

Cosmologists:  Their long history of Spritual antagonism.
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=3939.0

"Life comes only once"
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4099.0


"Say: Behold what is in the heavens and the earth!  But revelations and warning avail not folk who will not believe."  (10:101).

All praise be to Allah Almighty alone.
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« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2013, 01:08:22 am »

It's their own negligence and drifting away into deviance that frightens them and their lingering guilt gets them aggressive & agitated towards believers.  These folks are a lost cause.

Very correctly perceived Brother Truth-Seeker.  In their sub-conscious mind they're constantly aware of the Truth.  Thus, Allah states in Surah Al-Hijr: "It may be that those who disbelieve wish ardently that they were Muslims." 15:2.   But their inability to comply with the rules of the Ultimate Truth as highlighted by Allah turns their weakness into pride and hostility.  For that reason, any mention of the Hereafter knocks the wind out of them, being fully aware of how terribly astray they have gone.  But instead of keeping their cool, reflecting on the contents of their sub-conscious and analyzing their guilt, they prefer a very traditional human response of anger, hostility and ridicule.  It involves their own weaknesses, a complete lack of will-power and their own failure to grasp a balanced perception and consequently develop a correct insight of what elevation of human character really means.  Hence, they will find ways and means of justifying anything that complies with their weaknesses or is complacent towards them.  It's this mindset which Allah refers to in Verse 2:87: "Is it ever so, that, when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay ?"   Alhumdulilah, none can understand the human nature better than Allah, The Almighty.  What Allah has stated in the 87th Verse of Surah Al-Baqra makes up the core of traditional human intolerance.  Excluding a few exceptions, majority have taken this path until today in one way or another.   Allah also states in Verse 23:71 of Surah Al-Muminun: "And if the Truth had followed their desires, verily the heavens and the earth and whosoever is therein had been corrupted."  As we see, by the 21st century, this is precisely what has  happened in much of our planet.  No matter where you turn for respite, there is hardly a square foot of land that is free from corruption of some sort or another.
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« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2013, 06:33:15 am »

.... In fact, I had to endure one such demonic mind yesterday but not for long.  Last evening I spoke on phone after many years to a lady who used to be a good friend of mine in college.  What I unexpectedly discovered was the worst nightmare scenario anyone can imagine. I don't know how, but she's turned into a weird atheist.  She claims she reads the Quran to know of certain legal & social aspects but does not believe in Life Hereafter, doesn't even want to talk about it and insisted loudly "this life is the only one." ....

.. I saw some atheists cite scientific studies that supposedly prove that atheists have a higher IQ than religious people.....

God Almighty !!  I'm speechless .. except that honestly, there is no dearth of wicked lunatics in this world. 
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« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2013, 09:24:24 am »

Thanks so much sister Zeynab, those links sound very interesting. I just found this with a quick google search.

Atheists are more intelligent than religious people

Writing in the Freethinker (July 2008) Chris Barker argues that there is nothing racist about suggesting that atheists are more intelligent than believers.

IT was bound to happen. When Professor Richard Lynn claimed last month that people with higher IQs were less likely to believe in God many of those outraged by his assertion quickly tried to give his words a racist cast.

Professor Lynn, Emeritus Professor of Psychology at Ulster University, said many more members of the “intellectual elite” considered themselves atheists than the national average. A decline in religious observance over the last century was directly linked to a rise in average intelligence, he claimed.

Professor Lynn, who has provoked controversy in the past with research linking intelligence to race and sex, said university academics were less likely to believe in God than almost anyone else.

A survey of Royal Society fellows found that only 3.3 per cent believed in God – at a time when 68.5 percent of the general UK population described themselves as believers. A separate poll in the 90s found only seven percent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God.

Professor Lynn said most primary school children believed in God, but as they entered adolescence – and their intelligence increased – many started to have doubts.

He told The Times Higher Education magazine:


Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population.


Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God.

He said religious belief had declined across 137 developed nations in the 20th century at the same time as people became more intelligent.

But Professor Gordon Lynch, director of the Centre for Religion and Contemporary Society at Birkbeck College, London, said it failed to take account of a complex range of social, economic and historical factors.


Linking religious belief and intelligence in this way could reflect a dangerous trend, developing a simplistic characterisation of religion as primitive, which – while we are trying to deal with very complex issues of religious and cultural pluralism – is perhaps not the most helpful response.

Dr Alistair McFadyen, senior lecturer in Christian theology at Leeds University, said the conclusion had


A slight tinge of Western cultural imperialism as well as an anti-religious sentiment.

Dr David Hardman, principal lecturer in learning development at London Metropolitan University, said:


It is very difficult to conduct true experiments that would explicate a causal relationship between IQ and religious belief.


Nonetheless, there is evidence from other domains that higher levels of intelligence are associated with a greater ability – or perhaps willingness – to question and overturn strongly felt institutions.

Writing in the Guardian (June 12), Giles Fraser asserted


Little wonder Dr David King, coordinator of the watchdog group, Human Genetics Alert, has said ‘We find Richard Lynn’s claims that some human beings are inherently superior to others repugnant’.

The same thought applies to women with blond hair, to people with darker skin, or to those of us with religious belief.


I don’t much care if people think I’m thick because I believe in God. But what’s really nasty here – and it’s a part of a growing phenomenon – is the way religion is being used as a subtle code for race.


Belief in God is alive and well in Africa and in the Middle East and declining in western Europe. Writing about the intelligence of religious believers has, for some, become a roundabout way of commenting on the intelligence of those with darker skins whilst seeking to avoid the charge of racism. Religion is being used with a nod and a wink, cover for some rather dodgy and dangerous politics.


The debate between believers and nonbelievers … is not made any more civil by the addition of this unpleasant inflection. Which I why believers and unbelievers … ought to unite against this way of thinking about our differences. The only question worth debating is whether the claims of religious belief are true or not – or morally objectionable or not. And Richard Lynn’s research does nothing to help us here.

I do not believe for a moment that it is racist to point out that, in those countries where religion dominates the lives of its citizens – countries whose populations are mainly of a darker hue – social, economic and technological progress is virtually at a standstill.

This paralysis exists not because these people are stupid, but because religion has served to crush innovation and entrench primitive thinking. There can be no doubting that these people have been stupefied by religion masquerading as knowledge.

The only cure for this boils down to proper education, free of all religious influence.That the decline of religious belief across developed nations in the 20th century led to more intelligent populations is indisputable, and I have no doubt that, if religion were to give way to better education in Africa and the Muslim states, the same trend would be observed there.

Now let me draw your attention to in interesting statistic. Twenty percent of the world’s population – that’s two out of ten people – are Muslims. That’s a Muslim population of 1.4 billion people. But out of this huge population, only six Muslims have ever won Nobel Prizes.

They were Anwar El-Sadat (1978, Peace); Abdus Salam (1979, Physics), who, as a result of internal squabbles within Islam in Pakistan never got the recognition he deserved in the Muslim world; Najib Mahfooz (1988, Literature) and Yasser Arafat (1994, Peace), whose prize led to the resignation of Norwegian, Kaare Kristiansen, a member of the Nobel Committee. He protesed that the prize was being awarded to a “terrorist.” The remaining winners were Ahmed Zewail (1999, Chemistry) and Shirin Ebadi (2003, Peace).

The world’s Jewish population, on the other hand, totals around 13-million. Yet out of this comparatively tiny number, 165 Nobel Prizes have so far been awarded to Jews.

To suggest that this is the result of Jews being more intelligent than Arabs would, of course, be racist. But to conclude that Jews put a far higher value on a mainly secular education, rather than on religious indoctrination, is certainly not. Nor is it racist to point out that Asians in the UK from a Hindu background perform far better in the academic sphere than those who are Muslims. Again, an example of education triumphing over religion.

It should also be pointed out that, when religion is allowed a foothold in areas in which it has no legitimate place, the results can be extremely damaging, as the United States is now starting to realise.

Chris Mooney’s concern about this trend prompted him to write The Republicans’ War on Science, in which he reveals that science and scientists have less influence with the federal Government than at any time since the Eisenhower administration.


The book points out that, in the White House and Congress today, findings are reported in a politicised manner; spun or distorted to fit the speaker’s agenda; or, when they’re too inconvenient, ignored entirely.


On a broad array of issues – stem-cell research, climate change, missile defence, abstinence education, product safety, environmental regulation, and many others – the Bush administration’s positions fly in the face of overwhelming scientific consensus. Federal science agencies, once fiercely independent under both Republican and Democratic presidents, are increasingly staffed by political appointees and fringe theorists who know industry lobbyists and evangelical activists far better than they know the science.


This is not unique to the Bush administration, but it is largely a Republican phenomenon, born of a conservative dislike of environmental, health, and safety regulation, and at the extremes, of evolution and legalized abortion.

In his book Mooney ties together the disparate strands of the attack on science into a compelling and frightening account of the US Government’s increasing unwillingness to distinguish between legitimate research and ideologically driven pseudoscience.
 It is the religionists (assisted by muddleheaded, pc-constrained liberals and leftists) who are quickest to equate anti-religious sentiments with racism, because they know that, by playing the race card, they can effectively stifle a debate they would rather not have because it is one they can never win.

http://freethinker.co.uk/features/atheists-are-more-intelligent-than-religious-people/


 
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« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2013, 12:56:52 am »

Thank you so much brother Ozcan. I have come across this nonsensical concept earlier.  It's very definitely racist and hellishly opinionated.  Denying that would amount to adding falsehood to stupidity.  Lynn is notorious for his controversial statements linking IQ with race that have perpetually been disproven.  If this isn't racism then what is?  And now he has gone a step further, linking IQ with Faith.  Lynn's concepts aren't only flatly untrue but also contain huge elements of medieval non-religious ignorance when superiority of one human being over another was thought to be inherent, based on race, color or opinion.   I surely don't see any "science" in it.  This fractured, poor quality theory has been remarkably debunked in a blog article (I'm attaching in this post) with a brilliant and comprehensive analysis that has exposed the undercover tricks of men like Richard Lynn, Helmuth Nyborg, Richard Dawkins and John Perkins, unveiling the extent of their manipulations to uphold false claims for the purpose of pacifying their guilt.  They haven't even had the face to respond to it.  It struck me from the start that claiming something as unrelated to logic as non-religious minds being more intelligent is farthest from truth and farthest from science.  This blog article points out just that.  Since atheistic arguments typically overlook the concept "correlation is not causation,"  they actually belong to the category of "anti-science fanatics opposing criticism and scrutiny."  Their motive of associating their propaganda with the word "science"  is to deceptively embellish their disinformation to help dupe the public.

It's a must read article and I request you to visit the following link and go through it to catch the massive manipulations of Lynn and Nyborg.

Debunking the atheist claim: "The less religious and atheistic are more intelligent."
http://itsnobody.wordpress.com/2013/02/18/debunking-the-atheist-claim-the-less-religious-and-atheistic-are-more-intelligent/

Moreover, according to one's ideological priorities, different segments of societies have their own definitions of 'high intelligence and progressiveness.'  What I may consider a fine perception and insightful mind might be written off as trash according to someone else and vice-versa.  Obviously someone got to be the final Judge of who is right and who is wrong.  For me that JUDGE is GOD ALMIGHTY and will always be so.   I couldn't care less who the atheists choose as their judge.

And here is another rational and concise piece from Telegraph UK, busting the useless myth of so-called intellectuals like Lynn.  I quote the piece:

'High IQ claim to atheism claim attacked:'
Telegraph.co.uk  

The Christian think tank Theos has attacked a report from Ulster University that claims that the "intellectual elite" of Britain is atheist.

Professor Richard Lynn, Ulster University's emeritus professor of psychology, said that more members of the "intellectual elite" considered themselves to be atheists than the national average.

But Paul Woolley, director of the think-tank Theos, said: "Religion is a complex phenomenon and Professor Lynn's explanation is simplistic. He has recycled the long-disproven thesis of inevitable secularisation.

"Academia had a religious origin - the first universities were originally established by the Church, and some of the finest academics in the world today, not to mention some of the greatest minds in history, are deeply religious.

"The research fails to take account of a variety of cultural factors that would affect the outcome of opinion polls and surveys , and makes a series of unproven assumptions, not least that a high level of education is synonymous to a high IQ."

Professor Lynn is well known for controversial statements on eugenics, particularly the links between IQ and race.

Dr David King, co-ordinator of watchdog group, Human Genetics Alert, said: "We find Richard Lynn's claims that some human beings are inherently superior to others repugnant."

According to the report the decline in religious observance over the past century was directly linked to a rise in average intelligence.
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