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Validity of fast for those who are lazy to take major bath /ghusl befor fajar ?

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Author Topic: Validity of fast for those who are lazy to take major bath /ghusl befor fajar ?  (Read 7559 times)
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muslima
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« on: July 18, 2013, 01:02:08 pm »

 salamem



okay here is another issue ,my morning was completely messed with this argument very upsetting Sad some folks are so mean, very irresponsible to quote Quran verse to defend their own ridiculous unacceptable logic's ,my questions are regarding the Validity of fast for those who are lazy to take major bath /ghusl ,to offer fajar prayers and even skip their suhor willingly because of impurity .



 
He hath chosen you and hath not laid upon you in religion any hardship; 22:78


Does it mean we have right to misinterpret this verse according to our own point of view ? for our own convenience ? absolutely Not but unfortunately many of our modern mind brother's and sisters who are trying to represent Islam in so called soft image or light way of worship  Undecided and they thinks !! people have made religion difficult otherwise there is no hardship in deen.So we are allowed to choose which suits us... I am still thinking Are people really have become so impassive & selfish to accept anything for their own benefits ??

 
Followings are excuses and my Question also !
 
Q: It is hard to offer fajar prayers (for working men or teenage boy ,also in ramadan after a hectic day they can't get up for suhor/sehri so there is nothing wrong if they skip suhor... @ please note ! also there is nothing wrong with delaying ghusl until morning / or entire day ? (if one had wet dream) ?




1st discussion !


one of our sister was in confusion that she 's doing right or wrong ,she asked !! it is bit difficult for her teenage boy (around 16) and quite embarrassing also to take major bath (which is necessary due to wet dream) while other family members are eating suhor .so can he delays major bath up till morning or day ? few of them were agreed and said ! yes ofcourse ,why not , don't force him ,let him do otherwise he would stop fasting, don't worry ,it's okay there is no hardship in deen.

My question what about fajar prayers the problem is he is leaving obliged fajar prayers also ?


The answer from the loving mom was yes but he is teenager ,i can't be strict with him and i heard that !(she said) .. Having a wet dream before suhor or during the day in Ramadan does not invalidate the fast, because this is a matter that is beyond a person’s control and he cannot prevent it.


Okay ! I mean first of all what's bothering to entire family ? if any one or boy want to take bath before fajar prayers whats wrong with it ? why the all family members are interested to know the reason of his bath ? there is nothing abnormal so why u guys staring him ? that's none of ur business. He acutely avoiding suhor and also leaving fajar prayers because of ur stupid behaviour , second  convince him to recite Noble Quran with translation and Just ignore his bath and if once he succeeded to regulate his prayers he will be able to control himself . Isn't ? (whether he is sleeping at home or he is at work student job ) delaying or not offering fajar salat willingly and spending half day of fast in the state of impurity Is absolutely wrong whether his fast valid or not..
 
Ur opinion please ?



2nd discussion!

Q: One who has intercourse with his wife at night and wakes up in the morning in a state of impurity also skipped their suhor/sehri and fajar salat also . Did not take a ghusl at night and the day, up till the next day at zuhar/duhar salat time and then offer Qaza/qadah fajar along with duhar prayer their fast is valid ? one can spend half day of fast in major impurity ?
 

Q: intentionally OR Due to laziness Negligence of the obligatory prayer is allowed How ??

Q: Pre-plan , intentionally delaying fajar salat that we will make it up with Quaza/qadah in duhar is it permissible ??


 
@ please check hadith  excuses & claims are relate to this hadith also ,that there is no negligence when one sleeps, we can make it up in next prayers as there is no hardship in deen also .Okay sometimes it happens one may fall into deep sleep before salat/prayers time due to over tiredness But Willingly also in Ramadan ? and I don't understand how could this hadith justify the excuse ? am quoting because sister quote us. I haven't found online several verbal tales and quotations we have been quoted .


http://sunnah.com/nasai/6



It was narrated from Abu Qatadah that when they missed the prayer because they slept until the sun rose, the Messenger of Allah () said:

 "Let any one of you pray it during its time tomorrow."

 

أَخْبَرَنَا عَمْرُو بْنُ عَلِيٍّ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو دَاوُدَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ ثَابِتٍ الْبُنَانِيِّ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ رَبَاحٍ، عَنْ أَبِي قَتَادَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم لَمَّا نَامُوا عَنِ الصَّلاَةِ حَتَّى طَلَعَتِ الشَّمْسُ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ فَلْيُصَلِّهَا أَحَدُكُمْ مِنَ الْغَدِ لِوَقْتِهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏
 



Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)
English reference: Vol. 1, Book 6, Hadith 618
Arabic reference: Book 6, Hadith 624




@ please Explain me if am wrong here ?


Q: Anyone can easily leaves prayers on behalf of  it ? No !!  because Allah says in Quran !



Be guardians of your prayers, and of the midmost prayer, and stand up with devotion to Allah.2:238

 
Tell My bondmen who believe to establish worship and spend of that which We have given them, secretly and publicly, before a day cometh wherein there will be neither traffick nor befriending.14:31

 

Ah, woe unto worshippers Who are unmindful of their prayers, 107:4-5

Now there hath succeeded them a later generation whom have ruined worship and have followed lusts. But they will meet deception.19:56



It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is Aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall and touch them not, but be at your devotions in the mosques. These are the limits imposed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth His revelation to mankind that they may ward off (evil). 2:187



Yeah i agree According to 2:187 It is absolutely permissible for the believers to enjoy full conjugal relations with their wives during the nights of ramadan after the iftar and before fajar time .Husband and wife can do intercourse during the night until the time they not start fasting although it is highly recommended that one purify oneself immediately after sexual intercourse in order to fulfill their next salat (isha or fajar) and fast but If one does not perform the major bath /ghusl after intercourse for any reason it's also Okay there is nothing wrong with delaying ghusl /bath until just before dawn ,one could wait maximum to the next salat/ prayers time without taking major bath/ghusl But not more than this time (next salat time) ? also if one don't want to eat suhor/sehri it's also his/her own choice ( as they said we can't eat so early) but atleast before fajar salat one should take bath, why get so lazy for obliged fajar salat ? one should know that delaying even a single prayer on purpose until its time has passed is worse sin ,having wet dream or having sexual intercourse late at night does not justify leaving the fajar prayer intentionally until the next morning ? i don't understand What prevents these guys from performing ghusl /bath and praying ? why become too exhausted to perform the prayer ?? It doesn't matter what excuse one use but before fajar both (husband & wife must take bath otherwise their fast wont be valid  because their intention is involved ) ?



Ur feedback, info and help would be very appreciated

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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2013, 06:13:08 pm »

Walaikum As-Salaam Sister Muslima.  As usual, you have brought up a very useful topic.  Thank you and Allah bless. 

If a person does not feel hungry during Sahoor time, I don't think there is anything wrong to miss Sahoor.  I don't know of any Quranic prohibition on not missing Sahoor as long as that doesn't become an excuse to miss the fast.  The purpose of Sahoor is only to make fasting throughout the day a bit easier since Allah has confirmed He has not placed any hardships in religion.

If someone had a wet dream, in that case they can take their Sahoor before the bath.  But prior to offering the Fajr prayer, they will need to take a bath unless they are sick.   I say this on the basis of my understanding of Verses 4:43 and 5:6 (quoted at the end of this post for reference).  From these two verses, I think the term "unclean" refers to the usual dirt, sweat or impurity that might collect on one's body in the course of one's daily life.  In this case, a wudu is sufficient to cleanse oneself for prayers.  The term "polluted" apparently refers to bodily discharge as after sexual intercourse or wet dream.  For this, apparently one needs to take a full bath.  And in all cases, Allah has given concessions to perform taiyamum if there is no  water (which can also be taken to mean as extreme  shortage of water), or if a person is travelling and they cannot find water or if the person is too unwell to take a bath or perform wudu.  This is because Allah has not placed any difficulties in religion.

Sexual intercourse definitely invalidates the fast.  As for wet dream, I'm not sure but probably not.  The mom you spoke to might be right.   Intentionally, wet dream is different from sexual intercourse because the former is beyond one's control while the latter is by choice.  However, the result of both is physical pollution by bodily discharge and therefore would require a full bath in either case, unless those conditions mentioned in the Quran apply in which bath can be bypassed and replaced by taiyamum.

I absolutely agree with you that when the family awakes for Sahoor, whoever wants to take a full bath is their concern.  Other family members should not interfere in it at all so that those taking a bath will not feel embarrassed.  You're totally right, it's none of anyone's business except the person who wants  to take a bath.  Otherwise, because of embarrassment and shyness, that person might end up missing their Fajr prayer or even missing their Sahoor and Fajr salaat which eventually might even be used as an excuse for missing their fast.  Or, again as you rightly mentioned, the person might continue half their fast in a polluted state which is of course not at all advisable.

I also agree that even for husband and wife who had intercourse at night, should be responsible enough to take a bath when they wake up for Fajr.  Missing a bath is permissible only on  certain conditions as stated in those two verses of the Quran.  Missing a bath because of laziness in not the right thing to do.  Hence, you are correct to say that Fajr bath should not be intentionally delayed or "pre-planned" and then offered qaza with Zuhr.  However, it might be better than not fasting at all by using this issue as an excuse.  So, if the married couple think that waking up earlier than usual for Fajr to get enough time for a bath is not possible for them and consequently feel compelled to miss their fasts, in that case let them say qaza Fajr with Zuhr .. at least it's better than not fasting at all.

Another point I would like to add though it might be a bit out of the topic.  According to the imams, wudu gets invalidated if you pass urine.  Many people try to perform Zuhr and Asr (sometimes even Maghrib) prayer with one wudu done properly during Zuhr time.  But if they use the washroom in between, then they say the wudu is broken.  Frankly I don't agree with this.  This argument might have had some basis in the olden days when the washrooms were very rudimentary and different from today.  In those times, going to the washroom to pass urine might result in getting other parts of the body contaminated, as urine might splash on the body while passing or washing.  But nowadays in modern washrooms, everything is very easy and neat.  Passing urine and washing it is a very simple and clean process.  It doesn't dirty any other part of the body.  So I ask, why should it invalidate the entire wudu?

 
Verses 4:43 and 5:6 for reference:

"O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving."  4:43.

"O ye who believe! When ye rise up for prayer, wash you faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it. Allah would not place a burden on you, but He would purify you and would perfect His grace upon you, that ye may give thanks."  5:6.
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 09:37:37 am »

 
Sis zeynab i am very grateful and appreciate ur reply and agree with u also, yeah U have got me correct my focus was on Fajr bath ! it should not be intentionally delayed or "pre-planned" and then offered qaza with Zuhr...


Ur 2nd reply !

So, if the married couple think that waking up earlier than usual for Fajr to get enough time for a bath is not possible for them and consequently feel compelled to miss their fasts, in that case let them say qaza Fajr with Zuhr .. at least it's better than not fasting at all


hmmm okay !!
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2013, 10:04:56 am »


Another point I would like to add though it might be a bit out of the topic.  According to the imams, wudu gets invalidated if you pass urine.  Many people try to perform Zuhr and Asr (sometimes even Maghrib) prayer with one wudu done properly during Zuhr time.  But if they use the washroom in between, then they say the wudu is broken.  Frankly I don't agree with this.  This argument might have had some basis in the olden days when the washrooms were very rudimentary and different from today.  In those times, going to the washroom to pass urine might result in getting other parts of the body contaminated, as urine might splash on the body while passing or washing.  But nowadays in modern washrooms, everything is very easy and neat.  Passing urine and washing it is a very simple and clean process.  It doesn't dirty any other part of the body.  So I ask, why should it invalidate the entire wudu?

 
Verses 4:43 and 5:6 for reference:

"O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving."  4:43.

"O ye who believe! When ye rise up for prayer, wash you faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it. Allah would not place a burden on you, but He would purify you and would perfect His grace upon you, that ye may give thanks."  5:6.



 salamem


Dear sis zeynab i am giving my opinion with respect !
 
If someone have a very weak bladder and have the problem of frequent urination or due to any reason of sickness ,or due to old age any reason in all following situations i would say yes they don't need to renew wudu for each prayers /salat !! Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.39:53
 
But if some is healthy and have no valid excuse (or medical problem or any skin problem ) i would say please renew wudu for each prayers .I mean if believer going to stand in front of Allah and if he/she would renew wudu each time so what's a big deal ? Smiley with respect i would say for the safe side better to do because i see verse 5:6 in this way ...
 
O ye who believe! When ye rise up for prayer, wash you faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles 5:6


Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni.



When -  itha/iza
qumtum -  stand up/rise up 
ila  -   for
alssalati-  the prayers
faighsiloo -  then wash


simply when you intend to pray / when you get up for salat then  wash before you pray
 
qumtum ila alssalati   clearly capture the action required of rising with intention to perform salat and i find first deal of 5:6 is very clear detail  dmand which part of body we need to wash before salat and i feel it says '' wash before you pray ,when u stood up with intention of salat carry out the ablution process.. 5:6 Believers! When you stand up for Prayer wash before salat


second !


algha-iti- tolite -- الْغَائِطِ


 5:6
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا قُمْتُمْ إِلَى الصَّلَاةِ فَاغْسِلُوا وُجُوهَكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ إِلَى الْمَرَافِقِ وَامْسَحُوا بِرُءُوسِكُمْ وَأَرْجُلَكُمْ إِلَى الْكَعْبَيْنِ وَإِن كُنتُمْ جُنُبًا فَاطَّهَّرُوا وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَىٰ أَوْ عَلَىٰ سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاءَ أَحَدٌ مِّنكُم مِّنَ الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لَامَسْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ فَلَمْ تَجِدُوا مَاءً فَتَيَمَّمُوا صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُوا بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُم مِّنْهُ مَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُم مِّنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَٰكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ
 

4:43

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَقْرَبُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَنتُمْ سُكَارَىٰ حَتَّىٰ تَعْلَمُوا مَا تَقُولُونَ وَلَا جُنُبًا إِلَّا عَابِرِي سَبِيلٍ حَتَّىٰ تَغْتَسِلُوا وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَىٰ أَوْ عَلَىٰ سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاءَ أَحَدٌ مِّنكُم مِّنَ الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لَامَسْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ فَلَمْ تَجِدُوا مَاءً فَتَيَمَّمُوا صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُوا بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَفُوًّا غَفُورًا
 
.
I agree with ur post on Mv Passing wind does not invalidate wudu from quranic perspective BUT according to my information , study and the opinion of majority and also  in both verse 5:6 and 4:43  Arabic word algha-iti would infer a place where one would satisfy a want of nature which would include the excretion all forms of tangible human waste, this exceptions include urine also.And With this explanation i can NOT claim that passing urine does not invalidate wudu.
 

@ words are not coming in right position so please check link !
 
http://www.almaany.com/home.php?language=english&lang_name=Arabic&word=%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%BA%D8%A7%D8%A6%D8%B7&type_word=0

 
Rest Allah alone know the final truth  Smiley




 
 
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 07:03:23 pm »

Walaikum Salaam dear sister Muslima.  I agree with your view if taken at face value.  However, there are several points we need to focus upon which often need to be considered as conditions beneath the face value.

Verse 5:6. which mentions "When you rise up for prayer" can well be understood as taking for granted that the person is in an unclean state.   Both verses 5:6 and 4:43, if read carefully and entirely, are referred to a state of physical impurity when bodily cleanliness has not been maintained by recent washing and cleaning.  Thus you need to wash and cleanse yourself prior to standing up for prayer.  As I see clearly, according to the Quran, washing and cleaning for prayers has a practical importance.  But to the contrary, I've heard many traditional Muslims say that "half your niyyah is your wudu."   I respectfully disagree with this opinion.  Wudu is for physical cleanliness as Allah says in the Quran that He likes those who have a love for cleanliness. The niyyah for prayer is established by the intentions & thoughts we harbor in our minds and hearts, not by washing ourselves with water. Thus, praying 5 times might not necessarily mean scrubbing ourselves with water 5 times daily, if anyone can possibly maintain their physical cleanliness by performing wudu twice or thrice .. and many people are able to do that.  I understand V.5:6 as emphasizing on genuine and physical cleanliness before prayers, not ritual washing .. and I reiterate, physical cleanliness from a single wudu can possibly be maintained for a certain length of time which would vary from person to person.  While only Allah Almighty has the final authority over all Quranic Verses, so I would say in the case of V.5:6.  You interpretation sounds correct.  At the same time my interpretation which goes a bit further, might be correct too.  Only Allah would know best. 

Definitely passing urine makes the body unclean IF the person doesn't use water to wash their private parts as in the case of many non-Muslims. But we Muslims always wash meticulously with water.    Or, while passing urine if it splashes in other parts of the body then ablution or wudu certainly needs to be renewed.  No doubt about that.
 
Furthermore, circumstances differ even with healthy people.  Let's take an example.  I perform my wudu thoroughly for Zuhr prayer at 2.30 p.m.  After that I don't go out anywhere nor do I do any housework indoor, so I'm not dusty or sweaty.  I simply sit down, read a book or watch TV or work on my computer.  Two and a half hours later at 5.00 p.m. when it's Asr time, I'm still immaculately clean except that I used the washroom once or twice to empty my bladder.  But I cleaned myself with plenty of water.  Nothing splashed or spilled anywhere.  Then I washed my hands thoroughly with soap and water and I stepped out of the washroom.   Will I now be considered dirty and unfit for prayer in the Sight of Allah unless I don't splash some water on my face, my elbows and on my feet as a formality?  I don't think so.  I don't think Allah judges things that way.

I know of several Muslims who have given up on praying 5 times because in the circumstances of their daily hectic lives, it's not possible for them to wash 5 times.  In this case I would say, let them even perform taiyamum, it's better than missing a prayer altogether.  Not to mention of elderly people who might not suffer from bladder problems but the general frailty of old age might render it very tough for them to wash 5 times, and much simpler to maintain a wudu for at least 2 salaats.  I have the strongest of feeling that Allah (The Most Merciful and Considerate) accepts it but it's we humans who make simple matters hard for one another. 

Every rule that Allah has made in the Quran is based on logic.  If we deviate from that logic, it might become impractical, cumbersome or in some cases almost impossible to manage (especially considering the trend of modern life).  Thus Allah says He has not placed any hardships in religion.  If someone finds no problems in doing all 5 wudus then that's wonderful.  But situations in the cases of different individuals differ.  We need to keep the general situation in perspective.  Therefore, in my opinion if difficulties arise, the essence of the matter is to think or plan a method that does not defy the Quran and at the same time enables us to continue holding on to our worship of HIM. 

And only Allah knows best.
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2013, 02:21:20 pm »

 salamem

I agree 200%  with u elderly people are free from any human made restrictions. Thumbsup
 
Sis I don't consider myself educated enough to interpret Quran verse perfectly it's only my understandings and study Smiley

I respect ur opinion dear sister zeynab ur view is broad u might be right too but i won't lie sis ,honestly speaking i read both verses several time and try to understand but the Quranic  expression"qum'tum ila-salati" قُمْتُمْ إِلَى الصَّلَاةِ   in verse 5:6 is not allowing me to think furthermore , it would infer a state of ablution/wudu before establishing any prayer ,also as i said for the safe side i prefer for myself too better to do so very respectfully i would like to leave it on every individual's personal choice and responsibility.. Smiley
 
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2013, 04:40:48 pm »

Actually no one is educated enough to interpret any ayat of the Quran as the final one.  That authority belongs only to Allah.  We can only surmise by using the general values as presented by Allah for minimizing our difficulties and using our common sense.  For that reason, it may not be sufficient to interpret every verse word by word literally. But additionally, we also need to take into consideration other concepts of the Quran that form vital parts of its principles. 

Being elderly or young is not the point as anyone can face their own kind of problems.  It's not that young people cannot face any hardships.

idhā qum'tum ilā l-ṣalati fa-igh'silū (When you stand up for the prayer then wash ..) to my understanding implies that when you have decided to offer prayer and you're impure then you must wash to purify yourself.  If you have already maintained your previous wudu by keeping yourself physically clean, then that complies with the state of purity required while standing up for prayer.  Washing oneself if they are unclean is a practical necessity.  But washing oneself if they are already clean is basically a ritual.  I gather, logically this is what sister Zeynab means.  I agree with that.  However, if someone has the time and means to perform wudu for each prayer separately and also perform a wudu all over again after urinating & washing, then that's okay too.   The important thing is to look at it broadly and allow reasonable concessions which apparently do not go against the Quran, otherwise we only end up driving people away from prayers, not inviting them to it.  After all, the world doesn't only consist of retirees and welfare recipients relaxing at home with all the time in the world to themselves.  There are  people working hard outdoors for their bread & butter.  Many of them work up to 8, 10 or 12 hours daily under oppressive and inconvenient circumstances.  In Western countries Muslims are not given any extra time for prayers.  They have to squeeze their prayer time along with their lunch break.  There are no facilities for wudu and the nearest Masjid could be 15 or 20 miles away or further.  Allah understands all these issues.  Thus, He has not placed any hardships nor difficult ceremonial practices as compulsions for remembering Him.  That is a very important thing for us to remember.  The fact that Allah has allowed taiamum as a substitute for water in compelling circumstances is itself an evidence to prevent the lack of water from becoming an excuse to omit prayer, which again highlights the fact that the importance of prayer & sincerity in remembering Him precedes the practice of washing.  This doesn't mean washing isn't important.  It definitely is.  But it has to be arranged in its correct line of priority.

Indeed only Allah knows best, and Allah looks to our intent, sincerity and constancy in remembering Him more than the formal outward rituals.  Personally, this is what I understand from the overall principles of the Quran.  
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2013, 05:55:43 pm »

Yes, this is precisely my line of thoughts.  Thanks for the concise and articulate wrap-up, brother Truth-Seeker. 

And thanks for your additional input, sister Muslima.

Allah bless all believers .. ameen. 
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2013, 05:41:47 am »

 salamem bro  Smiley

I thank u & appreciate ur response yes u are also right Very respectfully mentioning again what i meant , the point was ( Flow of any Matter from the body will invalidate  wudu , passing urine invalidate wudu. and in my very humble opinion !!  If anyone go to the washroom/ toilet for defecation or urination ablution is required before salat.. what i said is please renew wudu before salat  for the safe side also. whether with water or tayamum . bro & sis i am not putting any restriction for washing with water.. that's all what i meant bro regarding verse 5:6 and anyone can perform tayammum in office also ..  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2013, 05:53:55 am »

Okay, I thought you meant renewing wudu only with water.  Of course renewing it with taiyamum is fine.  I always do that.   But most imams will never allow it.  That's why many people working in offices or doing field work find it impossible to pray.

Passing urine is bodily discharge but it's different from bodily discharge of sexual intercourse or wet dream.  Everyone would agree with that I'm sure.  Thus, I see the two differently.

Thanks for the informative thread, sis.
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2013, 07:25:53 am »

Dear sister zeynab I apologize i did not convey my message properly i feel.
Shukar Alhamdulillah u have got my point thanks , yes that's exactly what i meant and ,i too disagree with imams those who disallow 's tayammum and put conditions on tayammum also, No i too don't accept this , everyone have right  to choose option of tayammum (Allah have granted us after all) instead of giving up salat ,yes u are absolutely correct sis and i agree with u urine is difrent from the bodily discharge of sexual intercource or wet dream !!!
that's why i mention above ''algha-iti- tolite -- الْغَائِطِ
Excrement,/Human excrement , Stool ,And  urine is in a category of  human body waste due to nature call ...

jazak Allah khair sister Zeynab Allah bless  Smiley
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2013, 06:33:21 pm »

No problem at all dear sis Smiley   I honestly appreciate everything you intelligently stated throughout this thread.  May Allah Almighty reward you for your true commitment to the Noble Quran.   Ameen, ameen.
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 06:39:37 am »

 Smiley thanks sis .
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111

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