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Author Topic: I need your help urgently please.  (Read 339 times)
abbottonian
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« on: January 22, 2014, 05:42:14 pm »

Assalamoalaikum sister Zeynab & all members
I do not know if it is right to mention my complete conversation with a very good friend of mine,who happens to be from Brailvi school of thought.Although I have tried to reply him with references from the Glorious Qura'n but for his last question about Donkey I do not have a proper reply. It started with a post on my facebook page sayin"People will take away their rights and there will be a revolution in 2014"Astronomy expert Samia Khan.Here is how I responded to his post:-
Asif Raza:- If I believe in Astronomy or Astrology Fortune telling or Future telling, I will be committing the greatest of sins that is Shirk.
January 14 at 4:42am ·

Muhammad Sulaiman:- You are right. What about Istikhara ????????.
January 15 at 10:14am ·

Asif Raza:- In Quraan there is no mention of Istikhara so I do not believe in it.
January 17 at 5:37am ·

Muhammad Sulaiman:- Do you consider only Quran as "Hujat" or Ahadis Mubaraka have also a role to understand Quran perfectly. Please comment.
January 19 at 10:37am ·

Asif Raza:- Quraan is the only guidance for mankind the Prophet(SAW) was himself following what was revealed to him.So far I am concerned I believe that no Prophet could ever go against the message which was revealed to them.Any Hadith which is contrary to Quraan is a fabrication.So following Muhammad (SAW) is following Quraan. Surah yunus verse 15
Pickthall
And when Our clear revelations are recited unto them, they who look not for the meeting with Us say: Bring a Lecture other than this, or change it. Say (O Muhammad): It is not for me to change it of my accord. I only follow that which is inspired in me. Lo! If I disobey my Lord I fear the retribution of an awful Day. Surah al Ana’am verse 50
Pickthall
Say (O Muhammad, to the disbelievers): I say not unto you (that) I possess the treasures of Allah, nor that I have knowledge of the Unseen; and I say not unto you: Lo! I am an angel. I follow only that which is inspired in me. Say: Are the blind man and the seer equal? Will ye not then take thought?
January 20 at 5:52am ·

Muhammad Sulaiman:- Is a Donkey "HALAL" to be eaten or "HARAM" to be refrained from eating. Its being "HARAM" is nowhere mentioned in the Quran. Then why it should not be eaten. Please comment. Your concerns that any Hadith contradicting the Quran is a fabrication and following Muhammad (PBUH) is following Quran merits all my consideration and there is no doubt in it. With this strong belief in mind please remember that Donkey was declared "Haram" by our Holy Prophet (PBUH) and not by Quran and hence we are fully convinced to admit that Quranic prohibition and prohibitions by our Holy Prophet both are mandatory upon us. Same is the case of Istikhara and there are many Ahadis Mubarka suggesting Istikhara before initiating any important matters.
January 20 at 10:23am ·
I therefore request you to kindly let me have a proper reply to this Donkey question.
Jazak Allah Khair
Sincerely,
Your brother in Islam
Asif Raza.

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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2014, 05:58:53 am »

 wsalam Brother abbottonian i pray u are doing good , How is ur Wife ?

@ Regarding Astrology Fortune telling or Future telling U can check MV posts both are very informative.


 Astrology is Haram

http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4253.0



@  Bro I too never did istikharah , I strongly believe if anyone sincerely ask help through simple prayers  with tawakul /trust in Allah,truly guidance come to Us before our one tear down then we just need to recognise the guideline .

Here are 2 detailed discussion i hope it helps.


Does Quran approves sunnah of salat- ul-Istikharah /Istikharah Prayers ?

http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4101.0


Istikhara prayer !

http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=979.msg2634#msg2634



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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2014, 07:13:10 am »

Sorry to say but if he did 'not understood Ur quoted verse then he is helpless ,Why we must not Accept hadith It is very simple and straight Order from Allah But ONly FOR Believers u can check for him  ..

Quran only, no Hadith

http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4345.0




·
Muhammad Sulaiman:- Is a Donkey "HALAL" to be eaten or "HARAM" to be refrained from eating. Its being "HARAM" is nowhere mentioned in the Quran. Then why it should not be eaten. Please comment. Your concerns that any Hadith contradicting the Quran is a fabrication and following Muhammad (PBUH) is following Quran merits all my consideration and there is no doubt in it. With this strong belief in mind please remember that Donkey was declared "Haram" by our Holy Prophet (PBUH) and not by Quran and hence we are fully convinced to admit that Quranic prohibition and prohibitions by our Holy Prophet both are mandatory upon us. Same is the case of Istikhara and there are many Ahadis Mubarka suggesting Istikhara before initiating any important matters.
January 20 at 10:23am ·
I therefore request you to kindly let me have a proper reply to this Donkey question.
Jazak Allah Khair
Sincerely,
Your brother in Islam
Asif Raza.




BRO ! Tell him to take few days break from reading hadith and spent some time ONLY with Book Of Allah The NOBLE QURAN . Smiley



Response to the question with respect ,Quran  has specificly mention some grazing livestock for eating and some animals For Travel and carry burden . Take a look .@ please correct me if am wrong

www.islamawakened.com


surah Al Madidah 5:1 ( Livestock animals are lawful as food)


يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَوْفُوا بِالْعُقُودِ أُحِلَّتْ لَكُم بَهِيمَةُ الْأَنْعَامِ إِلَّا مَا يُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْكُمْ غَيْرَ مُحِلِّي الصَّيْدِ وَأَنتُمْ حُرُمٌ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَحْكُمُ مَا يُرِيدُ



Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo awfoo bialAAuqoodi ohillat lakum baheematu al-anAAami illa ma yutla AAalaykum ghayra muhillee alssaydi waantum hurumun inna Allaha yahkumu ma yureedu



(5:1:8)
bahīmatu
the quadruped



(5:1:9)
l-anʿāmi
(of) the grazing livestock




(5:1:6)
uḥillat/ ohillat
Are made lawful




Pickthall :

 O ye who believe! Fulfil your indentures. The beast of cattle is made lawful unto you (for food) except that which is announced unto you (herein), game being unlawful when ye are on the pilgrimage. Lo! Allah ordaineth that which pleaseth Him


 Abdel Haleem :

You who believe, fulfil your obligations. Livestock animals are lawful as food for you, with the exception of what is about to be announced to you. You are forbidden to kill game while you are on pilgrimage––God commands what He will,



O you who have believed, fulfill [all] contracts. Lawful for you are the animals of grazing livestock except for that which is recited to you [in this Qur'an] - hunting not being permitted while you are in the state of ihram. Indeed, Allah ordains what He intends.






Animals are specificly mention For Travel and carry burden  NOT FOR FOOD   (6:142 , 16:8)




وَمِنَ الْأَنْعَامِ حَمُولَةً وَفَرْشًا كُلُوا مِمَّا رَزَقَكُمُ اللَّهُ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا خُطُوَاتِ الشَّيْطَانِ إِنَّهُ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ مُّبِينٌ

Wamina al-anAAami hamoolatan wafarshan kuloo mimma razaqakumu Allahu wala tattabiAAoo khutuwati alshshaytani innahu lakum AAaduwwun mubeenun

 

(6:142:2)
l-anʿāmi
the cattle/ (He produceth)


(6:142:3)
ḥamūlatan/hamoolatan
(are some for) burden



Pickthall

And of the cattle (He produceth) some for burdens, some for food. Eat of that which Allah hath bestowed upon you, and follow not the footsteps of the devil, for lo! he is an open foe to you.



 Abdel Haleem

[He gave you] livestock, as beasts of burden and as food. So eat what God has provided for you and do not follow in Satan’s footsteps: he is your sworn enemy.



 surah An Nahul  16:8


وَالْخَيْلَ وَالْبِغَالَ وَالْحَمِيرَ لِتَرْكَبُوهَا وَزِينَةً وَيَخْلُقُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ


Waalkhayla waalbighala waalhameera litarkabooha wazeenatan wayakhluqu ma la taAAlamoona



Pickthall

And horses and mules and asses (hath He created) that ye may ride them, and for ornament. And He createth that which ye know not.



Abdel Haleem

horses, mules, and donkeys for you to ride and use for show, and other things you know nothing about.




(16:8:1)
wal-khayla
And horses



16:8:2)
wal-bighāla
and mules



(16:8:3)
wal-ḥamīra/waalhameera
and donkeys



(16:8:4)
litarkabūhā
for you to ride them


(16:8:5)
wazīnatan
and (as) adornment.



Animals above have been mention FOR TRAVEL and Show BUT NOT AS FOOD,, And DONKEY / Gadha / گدھا  is one of them and mentioned By Name for pulling loads.  @ Note that  camel is not in this list therefor camel can be eaten ...


NOW ask him  !! Donkey was declared "Haram" by our Holy Prophet (PBUH) and not by Quran ??


Really ??



I hope it answer the question let's see what  MV experts says . Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 11:41:13 am »

Walaikum As-Salaam brother Abbttonian.  I think Sister Muslima has mentioned some very fine and sensible points.  I will add some more points as well to help you. 

Quranic elucidations of astrology being thoroughly displeasing to Allah have been stated in our posts.  References to specific verses of Surah Al-Mulk and Surah Al-Hijr have quite categorically expressed not to indulge in the authority of others for future predictions.  It's also a matter of common sense that when Allah has confirmed in the Quran that we are not to follow any other source as our guide except the Quran, how can we recognize anyone else having the ability to predict the future except Allah?

Here are the two links for the information of your friend:

Do Verses 15:16-18 of Surah Al-Hijr condemn fortune telling and astrology?

Astrology is Haram

Now let us focus on Verse 6:153 of Surah Al-Anam.  Very important Verse!

"And (He commandeth you, saying): This is My straight path, so follow it. Follow not other ways, lest ye be parted from His way. This hath He ordained for you, that ye may ward off (evil)."  (6:153) Al-Anam.

In the light of the above Verse 6:153, wouldn't trusting astrological predictions amount to deviating from His path?  I would personally say yes. 

Also, in numerous verses Allah has confirmed beyond any doubts that NONE but HE knows the future.  Even none of the Prophets knew the future.  I am quoting only two verses out of many more which confirm this fact.

"  ....  He maketh none to share in His government."  (18:26) Al-Kahf.

"Say (O Muhammad): None in the heavens and the earth knoweth the Unseen save Allah; and they know not when they will be raised (again)."  (27:65) An-Naml.

In the light of these two verses, if we accept the future predictions or fortune telling of any other source, wouldn't that insinuate that we are sidetracking the commandment of Allah as being the Sole Knower of the future?   It sure would.   

There maybe certain instructions not directly mentioned in the Quran, but by adding up the standard verdicts of Allah plainly stated and confirmed by Him, we can easily get the answers of our specific queries.  Unfortunately this aspect does not strike those are not thoroughly embedded in the Quran alone because of their distractions from other sources and their intellectual lethargy to think and search for answers logically with the Quran as their Sole Criterion.

For example:  If someone asks, how do we know eating poultry is Halal because the Quran does not mention cooking chicken anywhere.  But let's not forget, the Quran does mention that the dwellers of Paradise will be given the meat of fowl to eat.  Obviously, if some food is given in Paradise to the righteous slaves of Allah, it cannot possibly be Haram in this world. Thus, as a Quran-alone follower, we add up the Quranic facts and conclude our answers to implement in our lives instead of running to imams and mullahs for their myths and tales. 

The question here is not, as deviaters of the Quran always bring up, claiming: "If you reject Hadith then how would you know of such and such thing because it's not mentioned in the Quran?"   The question which I put to them is:  "If something is not mentioned in the Quran, then WHY should the Hadith give its verdict on it

What authority has the Hadith to give its verdict on something not endorsed by the Quran?   The Hadith is supposed to compliment the Quran, not contradict it nor invent its own laws not stated nor referred in the Quran. That goes without saying.  Yet, the behavior of all such extra-Quranic sources blatantly violates their prescribed limits.

As for donkey meat is concerned .. Sister Muslima's argument gives some very logical and sensible points.  In the Noble Quran, Allah has referred to all those animals, the meat of which are Halal.  Sea food is also referred to as Halal.  There is no mention of eating donkeys, horses or mules because the utility of these animals has always been for transportation purposes only.  That's the way I personally view it.  However, if a follower of the Quran-alone wants to bring up the argument saying that since the Quran does not specifically forbid donkey meat, they would want to see it as Halal .... well, then that's up to them, and most importantly it's up to Allah to judge.  But surely Hadith cannot be taken as a reason to make donkey meat either Haram or Halal.

Just the same way, the traditionalists say eating lobster is Haram.  But many Quran-alone followers believe all sea food is Halal as per Quranic reference so they see lobster as Halal as well. That surely makes sense.  However, we cannot get a confirmed answer for that yet until we stand before Allah on the Day of Judgment.  So we will have to use our own discretion and make our own decisions which is a righteous approach, as long as our decisions are based on the sincerity of our conscience and not on any selfish motives. 

I think your friend needs to open up his mind a little more, think and reflect before jumping to conclusions instead of expecting every answer to be served on a silver platter through extra-Quranic sources. 

Do please feel free to take up any points you might want to clarify further.
 
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 12:15:26 pm »

Presently I have nothing more to add as sisters have already provided substantial answers pertaining to the Truth.  But will InshAllah keep following this thread in case other points are raised. 

I don't understand how anyone who has read and understood the Quran with sincere intentions of not violating it can be comfortable with something like astrology?  It's definitely a gaping deviation for anyone who takes the Noble Quran as their Sole Criterion of Assessment.

I also think brother Abbotonian, that this friend of yours needs to check his list of priorities.

What does amaze me is, the Ummah is getting burned and throttled by enemies within and without, yet our Hadithist brethren are still wrangling on donkey meat.  Look what the taliban takfiris are doing in northern Pakistan.  Look what the AQ takfiris are doing in Syria and Libya.  Is worrying about donkey meat more important than killings & dangerous vandalism in the Ummah by heinous sinners masquerading as "believers" and distorting Faith?
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 09:42:01 pm »

Just as hadith bans donkey meat, hadith allows eating lizards.  According to the tales of hadith, the Prophet (pbuh) personally didn't like lizard but he said it's not Haram for others.

"Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported: I and Khalid b. Walid went to the apartment of Maimuna along with Allāh's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and there was presented to him a roasted lizard. Allāh's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stretched his hand towards It, whereupon some of the women who had been in the house of Maimuna said: Inform Allāh's Messenger (may peace be upon him) what he intends to eat. Allāh's Messenger (may peace be upon him) lifted his hand. I said: Messenger of Allāh, Is it forbidden? He said: No. It is not found in the land of my people, and I feel that I have no liking for it. Khalid said: I then chewed and ate it, while, Allāh's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was looking (at me)."

So, how many Muslims do we know who cook lizard for lunch or dinner as they would cook chicken or mutton or beef or fish?   None at all.

The animal that's been stated as Haram for food is only pork.  Apart from pork, Allah leaves it up to us to perceive what to avoid as food.  We are allowed to eat the meat of:

cattle

sheep

camel

poultry

and seafood. 

That's enough.  We surely don't need to go about killing any animal we like to satisfy our hunger.  The pagans used to eat pork, so Allah stated not to eat it.  In most non-Muslim countries they still eat pork.  As for other animals like donkey, horse, dog, cat, monkey, bear, tiger etc. etc. it was never a standard culture to consume them as food in civilized societies since ancient times.  It was the standard approach of cultured communities to consume only the basic set of animals as food which is the same as I've cited in the list above.  That's why other than pork the Quran has not specified which animals we are not to eat.  But that doesn't insinuate that it's right to eat all other animals except pork.   As humans we need to have a degree of sensitivity and revulsion to strange and weird foods, especially animal foods.  In countries like China and Japan people eat snakes and rats.  But most people in other countries feel sick at the thought of it.  Therefore, there are many kinds of food we don't eat simply because of common human instincts.  It's the same reason we don't eat donkey meat, not because Hadith says not to eat it.  And although Hadith says we can eat lizard meat, yet we don't eat it for the same reason.

I won't comment on astrology as it has already been explained in detail.  It's definitely Haram. 
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2014, 02:00:31 pm »

Assalam Alaikum all,
First of all I would like to thank sister Muslima for remembering & asking about my wife.Though it is a long story.But to mention briefly,she went in coma on 16th of December was rushed to hospital all four major hospitals refused to take her in as it seemed she was dying and they did not want their rating to go further down with the death of a patient!finally with the help of a lady doctor and her fight with her senior doctors she admitted my wife in her ward.She was diagnosed that the fluid level in her brain has increased and after treatment of 3 days she came out of coma.Someone's prayers were heard and after 15 days she was discharged from hospital  and recovering slowly at home though still bed ridden.kindly keep her in your prayers.
And now the next part of my post.Thank you for the references from Qura'n regarding eating of animals.
My Thanks also go for sister Zeynab for the gem of her post""If something is not mentioned in the Quran, then WHY should the Hadith give its verdict on it? ""
and the last paragraph of truth seeker,s post is what we need to think about.
I thank sister Rohi for a detailed post and I would request her to kindly provide me with the reference of the  hadith book about Abdullah Bin Abbas's report regarding  lizard.
And once again I thank you all for your contribution.
Jazakum Allah bil Khair
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2014, 02:32:52 pm »

Walaikum AsSalam dear brother.  I'm concerned as well as happy to hear that your wife responded well to the treatment.  My concern and surprise dwell on how and why some hospitals refused to take her.  Assessing a patient's condition as serious being an excuse to refuse them is something I'm hearing for the first time.  Obviously family members rush their loved ones to hospitals on emergency only when they are serious. Such hospitals ought to be reported.  My earnest prayers for the comfort and quick recovery of your wife.  And may Allah bless the doctor who agreed to take her and successfully treat her.  I can so well understand the stress and anxiety you and your family must have gone through.

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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2014, 03:55:35 pm »

Thank you Truth Seeker.
It is so unfortunate that over the years Pakistan has become a morally bankrupt country.
Anyways thanks a load for your prayers.
Allah bless you
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2014, 06:22:58 pm »

Salam brother Abbotonian.  I was profoundly saddened to learn of the setback in your wife's health conditions.  But by the Grace and Mercy of Allah Almighty, she has recovered for which I offer endless thanks to Him.  It feels awful to know that though the purpose of hospitals is to save lives, many of them seem to work to the contrary.   I pray and hope your wife is now comfortable and not in any kind of pain.  Do feel free to keep us informed by posting updates at the shoutbox, whenever you wish.

That Hadith is from Al- Muwatta of ibn Malik, General Subjects Hadith book 54.0 and Hadith Nos.54.4.9, 54.4.10 and 54:4.11.  Here is one of the links:
http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=54&translator=4&start=0&number=54.4.9

Similar hadith on eating lizard is also narrated by the so-called sahih Muslim, chapter 'flesh of lizard' no.4783, 4784, 4785, 4787 and 4788.  Link below.
http://www.sahihmuslim.com/sps/smm/sahihmuslim.cfm?scn=dspchaptersfull&ChapterID=823&BookID=21
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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2014, 08:50:00 pm »

Here are three Quranic verses which provide us with sufficient reason to discard all such hadiths that pass their own verdicts.  The entire Hadith chapter closes immediately!

"And speak not, concerning that which your own tongues qualify (as clean or unclean), the falsehood: "This is lawful, and this is forbidden," so that ye invent a lie against Allah. Lo! those who invent a lie against Allah will not succeed." (16:116).

"Say: I find not in that which is revealed unto me aught prohibited to an eater that he eat thereof, except it be carrion, or blood poured forth, or swineflesh - for that verily is foul - or the abomination which was immolated to the name of other than Allah."  (6:145).

"And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us,
We assuredly had taken him by the right hand And then severed his life-artery, And not one of you could have held Us off from him."  (69:44-47).


The Hadith has declared many things Haram or Halal on its own.  It's declared donkey meat Haram.  It has also declared gold, silk and perfume as Haram.  It's also declared dogs "unclean" (najis) as pets.  But funnily enough the Hadith finds nothing unclean with lizard meat nor with flies nor camel urine.  There's a hadith that says to dip the fly in your drink.  Another one claims the Prophet once expressed his hospitality by offering camel urine to drink to certain people.

In the light of Verse 16:116, I ask them where does the Quran confirm such declarations ?   Would the Prophet (pbuh) who meticulously followed the Quran, ever say so many things on his own with no warrant from Allah, particularly after Allah categorically stated that the Prophet is NOT to say anything on his own?

Well, the obvious truth is that even most Hadith followers at heart don't care for the rules of Hadith in practical life because they know it's rubbish.  They don't eat donkey meat not because Hadith says not to eat it but because they simply find it yukky as we are not accustomed to eating donkey meat.  If the hadith followers don't agree with me on this, let me ask them, then why don't they eat lizard, why don't they drink camel urine or catch a fly and dip it in their glass of water at dinner time?
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2014, 09:03:25 pm »

Brother Abbotonian, I express my deepest thanks to Allah for providing helpful treatment to your wife.  May Allah also bless that lady doctor for her rare kindness.  I was shocked to learn about the callousness of other hospital staff.  As Sister Ruhi suggested, do please feel free to post updates at the shoutbox for our information if or when you desire. 

Thanks for this very informative and interesting thread.  Brother Truth Seeker, you are right, there's also a hadith on dipping fly in the drink.  In fact I was doing some research on it as I wanted to put that up in our hadith board.  Will be putting it up shortly, InshAllah.   
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2014, 08:15:29 am »

 salamem BRO Abbotonian

Ahh it's Shocking really but happy to hear about that ur wife came out of coma and has recovered . Endless thanks to Allah The Most compassionate, The Most Merciful's Favor . She is in our prayers Bro  Smiley  please keep informing us , May Allah Grant her health and Strengthen ur faith Ameen

My Lord, enable me to be grateful for Your favor which You have bestowed upon me 46:15

And Allah loves the steadfast.3:146

Indeed, the patient will be given their reward without account. 39:10
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2014, 05:09:36 pm »

Assalam Alaikum all.
I am proud of being part of MV and grateful to Allah for providing me with caring sisters and brothers.helping to sooth my stress with their prayers and increase my faith in Allah.Test and trial work both ways either it ruins one's faith or takes it to a higher level & for me it has only strengthened my faith.Al Hamdulillah .
My gratitude to all sisters and brothers.
 
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2014, 08:53:37 am »

You're most welcomed dear brother.  Your beloved wife, our dear sister, is always in our earnest prayers.  May Allah grant her shifa at the earliest, InshAllah, ameen.  Indeed the reward of Allah is huge for those who face their trials & tribulations with the patience and courage that you have adhered to.  After all, it's not easy as Allah Himself says in Verse 2:153: "Seek help in patience and prayer; and truly it is hard save for the humble-minded,.......".  Divine Justice is perfect and flawless.  He NEVER wastes the wages of hard workers.  Both you and your wife can look forward to immense reward with Him which is the ultimate triumph.  Subhan'Allah.
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