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Can believers take disbelievers as close friends?


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Author Topic: Can believers take disbelievers as close friends?  (Read 478 times)
Heba E. Husseyn
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« on: May 26, 2014, 03:51:44 am »

 BismEm


As-Salam Alaikum everyone. 



We have taken up this topic briefly in our Brief Tafsir board titled Do not stay in the company of those who don't think of Allah.  But since it's a vitally important subject, we will take it up again, this time in greater detail with direct references to Quranic Verses that are very clear and straightforward, as always.

I repeat, it's a very important issue which many Muslims tend to overlook or downplay either because of ignorance or carelessness or sometimes intentional dismissal of Allah's instructions for worldly reasons.

We often hear 'Muslims' claim that since faith is a "personal matter," it's okay to be close friends with pagans, atheists and agnostics.  But Islam is a Code of Life for the individual who embraces it, and for that person it's NOT a "personal matter."  This does NOT imply forcing Islam upon others.  But it does mean to protect your own Code of Life on the basis of its rules and reasons.

Let us examine the rules and reasons with direct references from the complete set of verses in the Noble Quran on this subject.

RISK OF TAKING DISBELIEVERS AS CLOSE FRIENDS:

"Among mankind is he who disputeth concerning Allah without knowledge, and followeth each froward devil;   For him it is decreed that whoso taketh him for friend, he verily will mislead him and will guide him to the punishment of the Flame."  (22:3-4).

Verses 22:3-4 are references to disbelievers swaying believers through their influence when believers take them as close friends and trust them.  Not all believers get swayed.  Rather most don't.  But there are several who are of weak judgment and find it hard to discern and determine the truth for themselves.  Such ones have very impressionable minds.  They tend to rely on others especially those they consider 'close' and trustworthy.  If unfortunately those trusted ones are disbelievers, the risk is obvious.   It's always a tendency within disbelievers to bring family, friends, colleagues and acquaintances within the fold of their thoughts.  That must never be overlooked nor under-estimated.

"and obey not him whose heart We have made heedless of Our remembrance, who followeth
his own lust and whose case hath been abandoned." (18:28).


"obey not" in Verse 18:28 basically expresses the notion of having close relations or close ties.  Every close friendship has to be on mutual terms.  If there is close friendship between a believer and a disbeliever, it's imperative that periodically the believer will be indulging in acts or speech that are outside the path of the Quran.

"And (remember) when Luqman said unto his son, when he was exhorting him: O my dear son! Ascribe no partners unto Allah. Lo! to ascribe partners (unto Him) is a tremendous wrong -   And We have enjoined upon man concerning his partners - His mother beareth him in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years - Give thanks unto Me and unto thy parents. Unto Me is the journeying.  But if they strive with thee to make thee ascribe unto Me as partner that of which thou hast no knowledge, then obey them not. Consort with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who repenteth unto Me. Then unto Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what ye used to do - "   (31:13-15).

"We have enjoined on man kindness to parents; but if they strive to make thee join with Me that of which thou hast no knowledge, then obey them not. Unto Me is your return and I shall tell you what ye used to do."  (29:8).


The above Verses 31:13-15 plainly express the factual concept that Allah Almighty comes first.  Belief in Allah alone is the first and foremost requirement.  After that comes respecting both your parents, with emphasis on the those nine months of stress endured by the mother when she carries her baby.  But Allah again reminds everyone that their final journey will be to HIM, therefore belief in Him only and obedience to Him is undoubtedly the first priority.  Therefore, even though parents have been given the highest status among all human relationships, yet the only time we are to disobey our parents is if they tell us to join partners with Allah or demand anything that amounts to disbelief.  In that case we must politely say 'NO' and simply continue with a respectful conduct toward them, but not obey them concerning the principles of life.

Allah Almighty has categorically forbidden us to compromise on the matter of the Monotheistic belief (Tawheed) even for the sake of parents.  Thus, there is no question of befriending other disbelievers that could involve the slightest risk to a believers status of belief.

The issue most Muslims get confused about is how to handle the relationship between relatives who disbelieve?  They often use the Quranic commandments of the importance of loving and respecting parents as a conjunction for accepting all relatives and friends even if they disbelieve.  This approach is wrong.  As we've seen, even if parents disbelieve, we are commanded to distance ourselves from them. 

"O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers."  (9:23).

It's very straightforward.   Verses 9:23-24 emphasize that whichever members of our families or friends disbelieve, we should not maintain a close relationship with them.  If a believer becomes a close and informal friend of a disbeliever, it's almost impossible for the believer not to make any concessions to please the disbeliever by deviating at least a little from the laws and rules of Allah.  The Will of Allah is to cleanse and protect us.  He does not want us to take any risks of getting our belief contaminated by the influence of heedless minds lest a foot slip after being firmly planted. Can anything be more tragic than that?  Unfortunately such incidents aren't uncommon.  There are numerous cases where believers  have expressed confidence in their belief, yet have been lured away from the precise path of Truth they stood upon before only because of the negative company in which they spent their time or had close links with. 

Often Muslims allow themselves to get misguided by the company of disbelievers because of the practical convenience of having amicable relations.  It's again a very wrong arrangement of one's priorities.

"and obey not him whose heart We have made heedless of Our remembrance, who followeth
his own lust and whose case hath been abandoned." (18:28)


Verse 18:28 above is an excellent summary of this entire topic.  It states we are NOT to obey (which implies having a warm and friendly relationship) anyone who is not close to Allah, who does not remember Allah, which refers to those who don't believe in Allah or do not respect Him or make light of Him.  This can also refer to the ritualistic so-called believers who confess faith with their tongues with an empty heart, those who perform worship languidly without thought or reflection and continue with their ill deeds in their daily lives.   Such folks can include anyone -  family, friends, neighbors, colleagues etc.

Verse 60:13 below tells believers not to be friendly with those with whom Allah is angry, that is, the disbelievers who do not believe in the Hereafter nor do they believe that they will be resurrected.  The expression "despair" of those in the graves implies disbelief in the Hereafter.  It does not mean 'depression' as foolishly misinterpreted by mainstream Hadithists.

"O ye who believe! Be not friendly with a folk with whom Allah is wroth, (a folk) who have despaired of the Hereafter as the disbelievers despair of those who are in the graves."  (60:13).

If you read Surah 60, Al-Mumtahanah, it quotes plenty of verses for not taking disbelievers as friends.  One would say the verses in this Surah refer specifically to the Prophet's time.  Yes, but similar situations arise just as commonly in everyone's life and in all eras of history.  The  following Verses are self-explanatory.

"O ye who believe! Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. ..... If ye have come forth to strive in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them not friendship)."  (60:1).

"Your ties of kindred and your children will avail you naught upon the Day of Resurrection. He will part you. Allah is Seer of what ye do."  (60:3).


Allah Almighty has mentioned the example of Prophet Abraham (pbuh) who disassociated himself from his father because his father was a disbeliever.

"The prayer of Abraham for the forgiveness of his father was only because of a promise he had promised him, but when it had become clear unto him that he (his father) was an enemy to Allah he (Abraham) disowned him. Lo! Abraham was soft of heart, long-suffering."  (9:114).

Similarly marriages between believers and disbelievers are not permitted.  In such marriages the believing spouse runs the risk of ruining their faith and the faith of their future children because of the influence of the disbelieving spouse.  That's the reason Allah states in Verse 60:10 that believing women who escaped from disbelieving households in Mecca to Medinah must not be sent back to their homes in Mecca.

"O ye who believe! When believing women come unto you as fugitives, examine them. Allah is Best Aware of their faith. Then, if ye know them for true believers, send them not back unto the disbelievers. They are not lawful for them (the disbelievers), nor are they (the disbelievers) lawful for them."  (60:10).

The following three Verses from Surah Al-Anam again conform without a doubt the huge importance of keeping away from the company of disbelievers engaging in denial of His revelations, who make light of His rules which is a believer's Code of Life.

"And when thou seest those who meddle with Our revelations, withdraw from them until they meddle with another topic. And if the devil cause thee to forget, sit not, after the remembrance, with the congregation of wrong-doers.  Those who ward off (evil) are not accountable for them in aught, but the Reminder (must be given them) that haply they (too) may ward off (evil).   (6:68-69)  Al-Anam.

"And forsake those who take their religion for a pastime and a jest, and whom the life of the world beguileth. Remind (mankind) hereby lest a soul be destroyed by what it earneth. It hath beside Allah no protecting ally nor intercessor, and though it offer every compensation it will not be accepted from it. Those are they who perish by their own deserts. For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved."   (6:70)  Al-Anam.


The Noble Quran has made it very plain without a doubt that believers need to be very cautious concerning their relations with disbelievers, whoever they maybe.  A very formal relationship based on respect is as far as believers can go.  But NEVER to meddle informally or passively where a disbeliever makes light of Allah or His Final Message or repudiates it aggressively or tries to sway the believer with crafty arguments.  A believer is entitled to respond, exposing the ignorance and blunders of a disbeliever.  But if that gives an excuse to the disbeliever to pick up a confrontation or to harass with harsh and disrespectful arguments, then it's necessary to avoid such persons altogether with a civilized 'goodbye.' Dark minds like these are not worth the time of a person with wisdom whom has been privileged enough to acquire the Divine guidance.    If they need our help in the course of their daily lives, we can surely help them; but it must be remembered at all times that there is a wide gap between believers and disbelievers that cannot be bridged unless the disbeliever works to acquire guidance and believes.  Until then, that distance must be maintained.

And Verse 58:22 is again worth reflecting upon.

"Thou wilt not find folk who believe in Allah and the Last Day loving those who oppose Allah and His messenger, even though they be their fathers or their sons or their brethren or their clan. As for such, He hath written faith upon their hearts and hath strengthened them with a Spirit from Him, and He will bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide. Allah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him. They are Allah's party. Lo! is it not Allah's party who are the successful ?"   (58:22).

It's very true that a person who has genuinely surrendered themselves to Allah alone will not be able to get along nor feel comfortable in the midst of those who reject Faith or belittle it.  Those who don't consider the love of Allah important in the hearts of their family and friends are likely not to be too particular of their own transgressions and subsequently their ethical values will have partial or little consistency with the Quran.  Their company will consist of an assortment of people where sincere remembrance of Allah would be rare and serving Him alone might be of little or no importance.

Finally, Verse 6:153 of Surah Al-Anam briefly and comprehensively conveys the very logical reason why befriending disbelievers could be a huge risk.

"And (He commandeth you, saying): This is My straight path, so follow it. Follow not other ways, lest ye be parted from His way. This hath He ordained for you, that ye may ward off (evil)."

Setting aside your personal bias and feelings, if you coolly concentrate on this Verse, you will grasp the truth and the usefulness of it.  It's really very simple.  No one understands the human mind better than Allah.  It's not inherent of human nature to share its loyalty equally between more than a single ideology.  That is humanly and psychologically impossible.  Most importantly in the matter of faith, if a Muslim claims to be equally accepting toward the views of polytheism and atheism as to Monotheism, that person is definitely NOT a Muslim;  they are liars and hypocrites.  Those walking upon several paths are bound to have a considerable distance between themselves and  the path of Allah.  Such persons cannot be as close to Allah as someone who has surrendered their hearts and minds wholly to Allah only.  That's obvious.

Hence, Allah has revealed many Verses in His Final Message to enable a sincere believer to understand this matter and take the necessary precautions.  Allah wants the best for His loyal slaves.  He wants to protect them from harm and hurtful temptations from heedless and conceited minds. 
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Zeynab
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2014, 09:55:19 pm »

Walaikum Salaam sis.  Many thanks for contributing this hugely important piece.  As anyone can see here, all contents are directly from the Noble Quran.  The comments are reflections strictly on the Quranic Verses quoted.   Most Muslims not only overlook the importance of this topic but they also find it unpleasant to discuss.  Truth always tastes bitter to the laggards.  But that's their problem.  Allah Almighty has made this point crystal clear with the complete set of Quranic verses on refraining from closely befriending disbelievers.  It doesn't mean we have to avoid them like plague.  We may have non-Muslims colleagues at work, non-Muslim neighbors, or any other acquaintance who may be a non-Muslim.  We can meet them, talk politely to them, assist them if they need our help on the daily practical issue of life.  But always keep in mind that there is one primary difference .. the most important one .. that they are focused only upon this world while we are focused upon this and the next world which is much more important than this world.  The permanent life of the next world is absent from the thoughts and consideration of disbelievers.  They don't think of it in the actual truthful way as elucidated in the Noble Quran.  And whether they like to admit it or not, the fact of the matter is that ONLY the Quran is the Final Word and the Final Truth.  Thus, yes, there will always remain a big gap between a true believer and a non-believer preventing them from becoming close friends.  It's impossible for the two to connect entirely, unless the 'Muslim' is not wholly loyal to the Quran.

Among the disbelieving category - pagans, atheists and agnostics - I would add one more, the followers of multi-faith concept.  They are also stark disbelievers and usually close to pagans.  Faith is just ONE, that is, total surrender or submission to Allah Almighty alone.  That is it.  There is NO such thing as "multi-faith." 

I hope our guests read this piece carefully and share it.  Whether or not you agree, just remember this is the truth.  If you are sincerely a Monotheistic believer, it will be impossible for you to fully connect with someone who is deviated from Monotheism.  If you feel you do not find anything wrong with their ideology of life, that is a clear evidence that you are not as loyal as you should be toward Allah Almighty alone.  There can be no other reason for it.
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 11:31:41 am »

 salamem

  weldem  MashAllah sis Heba ,What a Dynamic piece u have written , thank U and jazak Allah kahir ,May Allah sent uncountable barakahís / blessings  to u and ur family  ameen ,I appreciate each word and fact U have stated  Smiley

totally agree with both of u this issue must not be overclocked , because we are seeing the adverse effects of this cultural adjustment and so called close friendship between believers and disbelievers, Many Muslims have fallen into kufr and have apostatized from Islam deen -Ibrahim (pbuh)  because of keeping company with the kuffar and living in their countries and u won't believe  some have embraced atheistic philosophies..It may be understood from the apparent meaning of all these straightforward verses that the one who deliberately takes the kuffar as friends by choice and because he likes them, is one of them , We ask Allah to make us steadfast in following His religion.


whenever any ( muslim or born muslim ) believer tries to justify their close friendship with disbeliever then i question to them ?  how can it be appropriate for a Muslim to keep company with the enemy of Allah and the  enemy Prophets ( pbuh)  and make friends with them ?  according to verse 4:144 ?


O ye who believe! Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you?  4:144


Thou seest many of them making friends with those who disbelieve. Surely ill for them is that which they themselves send on before them: that Allah will be wroth with them and in the doom they will abide.5:80

If they believed in Allah and the Prophet and that which is revealed unto him, they would  not choose them for their friends. But many of them are of evil conduct. 5:81

 i compeletly agree with sis zeynab ,also we are allowed to be nice with non-Muslims in the sense that we don't have to wage war against them and we can have peaceful relations with them and engage in friendly dialogue with them. but we are not permitted to be close friends with them in the sense that they are our companions because this might have negative impact upon ourselves.
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 11:33:41 am »

Whether or not you agree, just remember this is the truth.  If you are sincerely a Monotheistic believer, it will be impossible for you to fully connect with someone who is deviated from Monotheism.  If you feel you do not find anything wrong with their ideology of life, that is a clear evidence that you are not as loyal as you should be toward Allah Almighty alone.  There can be no other reason for it.

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salam & peace sis zeynab and everyone
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 01:59:24 am »


"O ye who believe! Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you?"  4:144

 
 i compeletly agree with sis zeynab ,also we are allowed to be nice with non-Muslims in the sense that we don't have to wage war against them and we can have peaceful relations with them and engage in friendly dialogue with them. but we are not permitted to be close friends with them in the sense that they are our companions because this might have negative impact upon ourselves.

Exactly Sister.  Sure we should be polite and courteous to them and also help them if they need our assistance in daily life.  Example, if a non-Muslim neighbor is ill and cannot step out of their home, a Muslim neighbor should send him or her food or medicine.   But close friendship at all times by ignoring the huge difference between their ideology and ours can have a very negative impact upon believers among us.  I wish our believing brethren would understand this.  While some do, unfortunately many don't.

Verse 4:144 is another wonderfully straight forward dictate that elucidates the risk we run in befriending disbelievers. 

From what I've observed, there are two aspects that have made Muslims neglectful about this point.  First, the influence of the media.  Second, the immigration culture of Muslims moving to the West en masse.
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2014, 10:31:29 am »


Exactly Sister.  Sure we should be polite and courteous to them and also help them if they need our assistance in daily life.  Example, if a non-Muslim neighbor is ill and cannot step out of their home, a Muslim neighbor should send him or her food or medicine.   But close friendship at all times by ignoring the huge difference between their ideology and ours can have a very negative impact upon believers among us.  I wish our believing brethren would understand this.  While some do, unfortunately many don't.

Verse 4:144 is another wonderfully straight forward dictate that elucidates the risk we run in befriending disbelievers. 

From what I've observed, there are two aspects that have made Muslims neglectful about this point.  First, the influence of the media.  Second, the immigration culture of Muslims moving to the West en masse.



 salamem


jazak Allah khair

Sis zeynab main iss baat par bhi ap se muttafiq hon  Smiley  immigration culture of Muslims moving to the West is biggest fact  Sad

indeed Islam has great respect for the mutual rights and duties of neighbours. rights of neighbors are not meant for Muslim neighbours only ,It is a sad fact that many people ( Muslim & non muslim both ) have completely the wrong idea about Islam and Muslims,their only knowledge of islam comes from the TV and newspapers.  It is equally true that they will most probably never open Quran or visit any relaiable mosque . In Following verses  4:36,   13:4,  17:1,   33:60 , Quran advises us to treat neighbours kindly, even if they are not Muslim , In fact as Muslims, we should be the very best of neighbours , And i am glad to tell U   Alhumdulliah  there are very good believers also we know them they do help their non muslims neighbours whenever they need , and they do regular grocery for non muslim elderly neighbours, May Allah reward them ,ameen

May Allah grant all of us correct understanding and  Correct View towards Noble Quran ameen ya Rab
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2014, 02:59:25 am »

As-Salam Alaikum all.  It it benefited me greatly to read the enlightened feedbacks.   Many thanks dear sisters.



 And i am glad to tell U   Alhumdulliah  there are very good believers also we know them they do help their non muslims neighbours whenever they need , and they do regular grocery for non muslim elderly neighbours, May Allah reward them ,ameen

May Allah grant all of us correct understanding and  Correct View towards Noble Quran ameen ya Rab

Ohw!  really nice to know that.  But from what I've observed, that is too unusual.   In our countries of origin, Muslims complain that no one helps the other and neighbors are like strangers.  But many of us learn tougher lessons after coming to the West. 

In US and Canada for example (and I don't have any good reason to presume it's much different in Europe and UK), one thing they desperately try to avoid is shouldering a responsibility outside their homes.  Hence, nine of out ten families at best are reclusive to the core.  But when it comes to showing assimilation with Westerners like celebrating Christmas, New Year, Easter or Halloween, they jump at it.   

As far as Muslim community centers are concerned and the imams & sheikhs who run them, it's all about money.   If you give a donation of $150 or $250 a month, they'll adore you.  Otherwise they couldn't care a shit.  I have known Muslims who have asked them for help (not money) on advise & guidelines concerning personal decisions e.g. how to compensate if they miss Jum'ah, how to write a will, how to make bequests etc.  These are important issues and if the imams & sheikhs command that much iconic respect from their naive followers, they ought to willingly step forward to advise common Muslims.  But they don't;  they always make some excuse and wriggle out or refer you to someone else .... unless you are in their list of a big donor.

Doing groceries for elderly neighbors is like cracking a joke.  Of course if we request someone to bring groceries in times of emergency, we pay them for it.  No one asks anything for free.  I've been living here for 19 years now.  Not a single person, though they call themselves "Muslims" louder than they should, has bothered to make any such suggestions to us nor anyone I know.  There's an elderly Muslim lady who lives two houses away.  Her son and his wife come once a fortnight to do her groceries.  Last year she was very ill.  But the damn son and his wife would still come just once a fortnight.  She called us twice requesting us to bring her some medicines as she was constantly running short of her stock.  We got her medicines twice.  Then at least three times we sent our two elder kids to ask her if she needs groceries or anything else.  She was very happy and grateful.  On one of the visits she gave a small list of groceries to my daughter that she needed.  We bought her groceries and gave them to her.  Then her son and his wife met us a few days later and thanked us. We did all this only for the sake of Allah, not from any gratitude from them.

Yet when my mom was ill last year and had to be admitted to hospital, not a soul from our Muslim community came forward even though they knew about it.  This is the condition with our folks. 

I always hear of our imams asking for donations to build masjids or renovate them.  But no one has yet thought of establishing a welfare fund for poor Muslims living in their countries.  To think that middle class Muslims who come to the West become "rich" is a sad misconception.  The truth is they become poorer.  There are any number of poor Muslim immigrants living hand to mouth in virtual poverty on a fixed budget, yet not a single Muslim organization has offered them occasional supplementary funds to buy essentials like food, medicines, warm clothes etc.  Not even an extra stipend for Ramadan or Eid.  On the contrary, their demands heighten to take money from these people who are already struggling financially in the name of donations.  Ramadan is now approaching end of June.  My husband and I are already expecting our email inboxes to get inundated with donation requests from dozens of Muslim organizations.  Okay fine, let them ask us for donations.  Though we are not rich at all, yet Allah has given us enough to survive Alhumdulilah. But they should not ask donations from the poor Muslims.  That's going too far. 

Ya my Dearest Allah, please help this selfish Ummah who love to befriend the kuffar but neglect their own brethren.   
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2014, 04:02:31 am »

True Sister Heba.  My experience is much the same.  Except for a few, very very few, majority are an epitome of selfishness and hypocrisy.  And .. the imams and so-called ulemas who are supposed to be the persons in authority over our community, simply have no concept of any kind of welfare planning for the unprivileged.  I also asked one brother a few years ago at a live online webnar about setting up a welfare fund for the poor in our city instead of spending every bit of donations on constructions.  He said he would suggest to his senior imam and let me know.  He never responded. 

The situation of single sisters are still harder and they are completely left to themselves without a shred of help.  The reason is the same.  There is simply no concept of non-profit work (in the true sense of the term) among the volunteers of our Muslim communities.  Single sisters are looked upon as bigger burdens than single brothers.  Married sisters also try to keep a distance from single sisters, looking upon them as potential threats, fearing that their husbands might start eyeing them.  That's how weird our Muslim societies are, no matter where.  Greed for money and lack of trust among each other have wrecked them.

I have sometimes seen young Muslim volunteers setting up free food stalls and distributing free food in non-Muslim neighborhood to the homeless, which is fine.  But what about putting up similar food stalls for lower income Muslims in Ramadan or Eid?  Of course I see and hear of plenty of fun fairs at our community centers with delicious goodies sold in different stalls.  But take a look at their prices!   

Sister Muslima, you're lucky to have found some such brothers and sisters who have gone as far as that to help their people.   May Allah bless them and reward them heavily.  I so much wish there were more like them. 
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2014, 04:26:41 am »


The situation of single sisters are still harder and they are completely left to themselves without a shred of help.  The reason is the same.  There is simply no concept of non-profit work (in the true sense of the term) among the volunteers of our Muslim communities.  Single sisters are looked upon as bigger burdens than single brothers.  Married sisters also try to keep a distance from single sisters, looking upon them as potential threats, fearing that their husbands might start eyeing them.  That's how weird our Muslim societies are, no matter where.  Greed for money and lack of trust among each other have wrecked them.

This is another very factual point.  Married sisters can socialize a lot more through the presence of their husbands compared to widowed or single sisters with elderly parents or single sisters who are absolutely alone.  These are looked upon as resourceless and vulnerable.  It's really cruel.  It also exposes how little most Muslim women trust their husbands.  And with all those unsightly Abu Huraira hadiths, probably many of those buggers, their husbands, don't deserve to be trusted either.  Both sides are a bunch of irritating lunatics.   



I have sometimes seen young Muslim volunteers setting up free food stalls and distributing free food in non-Muslim neighborhood to the homeless, which is fine.  But what about putting up similar food stalls for lower income Muslims in Ramadan or Eid?  Of course I see and hear of plenty of fun fairs at our community centers with delicious goodies sold in different stalls.  But take a look at their prices!   


Exactly.  Not once have I seen Iftar being distributed at the homes of the poor Muslims on fixed income.  Iftar is free only during lecture sessions in Ramadan at the community centers which is mostly crowded with the community donors who are generally allowed to bring with them one or two guests.  None of the dinners in the event of Eid are free.  In fact they usually have quite a heavy price tag .. like $30 or $40 per person and half for kids under 12. 
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2014, 04:36:40 am »


This is another very factual point.  Married sisters can socialize a lot more through the presence of their husbands compared to widowed or single sisters with elderly parents or single sisters who are absolutely alone.  These are looked upon as resourceless and vulnerable.  It's really cruel. 


Correct, that's precisely how they think.




It also exposes how little most Muslim women trust their husbands.  And with all those unsightly Abu Huraira hadiths, probably many of those buggers, their husbands, don't deserve to be trusted either.  Both sides are a bunch of irritating lunatics.
 
 

LOL   Cheesy Cheesy   very correctly stated again, and humorously too  teethsmile




....  Not once have I seen Iftar being distributed at the homes of the poor Muslims on fixed income.  Iftar is free only during lecture sessions in Ramadan at the community centers which is mostly crowded with the community donors who are generally allowed to bring with them one or two guests.  None of the dinners in the event of Eid are free.  In fact they usually have quite a heavy price tag .. like $30 or $40 per person and half for kids under 12. 

Spot on evaluation.  Unfortunately that's how it is  Sad
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2014, 05:58:37 am »

 salamem sisters


very educative and truthful discussion  Thumbsup   

I agree with both of U 100% It is sad and true , in the matter of financial help, and welfare from our muslim  communities the situation is almost the same whether is US,Canada ,EU or UK  but humanity still alive ,though they are few but good people and true believers still exist , and i personally know them too thatís ís why i mentioned them , NO sis this is not a joke  Sad, these muslim families are very kind and  these guys ! do help their muslims and non muslim especially elderly neighbours free of cost (For  the sake of Allah of course ,i also know few non muslims who help their muslims neighbours that non muslim helping couple lives next street to us , (who helped their newly moved muslim family neighbours  ) . sis we too had a non muslim elderly lady who lived alone ,she donít have kids and her niece lives far away from her and visited her in a week ,once she ( old lady) asked us to help her in grocery ,then i used to ask her myself ,when ever i go for mine ,and i bought her grocery when she need ,she was very nice lady and good neighbour ,i personally took her food as well when she don't cooked , now it's been 1/2 year she moved to the place near her by niece. i too did and do help muslims too only For the sake of Allah ,


@ Sis i might not be able to explain u very well  apology in advance Smiley  , u know better about the situation at ur side but i will talk about the situation here i saw !  what i feel is,  it's weird ,unusual and unpleasant  situation for the immigrants those who come from the culture's and countries helping each other , and  this is a big issue for those who are not in touch with their communities , and don't follow the given and take rule thats weird but true, or live far from their communities and live alone ,but life in west is based on living independently ,self help or asking professional help if they need ,and they are so, this is a true face of  western countries and society ,they usually don't believe in asking help rather they prefer to call professional services (even in cleaning or cooking too ) nor they help each other in free neither they mind if U don't , and muslims are very unpredicted in this regard . Undecided

May be itís off the topic but i would like to share something about people  !

Pakistani families here i met !! Pakistanis too help each other, but mostly they like to help people those who accept to live under their  pressure (otherwise they don't ) and later they sang the song of their kindness many times ,unless half of the neighbourhood and community  know that how they have helped  Angry even if they come to mosque they tell every one by mentioning their names (whom they helped )and if u say i dont know these people they will tell u their location as well  no courtesy at all  Cry, also we have another set of complain that why  , pakistanis avoid to ask each other help !  because then they starts depending each other , some of misuse each other , and bother a lot  Undecided  but still they do help some times but internally not happy with each otherís behaviour . one GOOD side also I know here  pakistani mosque which is well known for free food serving in ramadan (free sehri and iftari for people from any nationality ) many pakistani sent them money (just for iftar and sehri ) or food by their own will & wish to feed needy people in ramadan , sadly moroccans are extremely miser to giving free food even in ramadan  Undecided  some restaurant well but not their mosques,

Moroccan and turkish families are bit different and unite ! their ladies lives in groups and tries to get home near by , their ladies go for grocery togather and if one of them ill , they do grocery for each other , they pick and drop each others kids from school , they help each other very much even they come forward to fight for each others ,they do help their community , they do treat each other well .

sis people do help each other especially those who earn less income ,secretly in different ways like ,for  exmpl ! ladies who know stitching and have good sewing skills they prefer them than professionals , people do send their children to the homes of acquaintances,  to learn Quran ,and pay them for that with intention of help without hurting their self respect instead of given free food or money and bring others too  like friends and colleagues and sometimes help them regardlessly  Smiley that's also fine better than nothing , and also better than depending on mosque and community centres ...



Regarding donations i feel people are now getting bit smart,clever and wise , first they don't open such junk emails ,second if they ever got trapped ,they simply tell the mosque ,imams and shaikhs ! we support our families back home and also some poor & needy people back home so we can't donate u as much u want but if u Accept 10 or 20 euro or as much we want to give u ,that's fine but don't  ask for more otherwise will stop visiting mosque don't behave like bhatta khor  or looters .
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2014, 04:27:47 am »

NO sis this is not a joke

Walaikum As-Salam.  Sis, you misunderstood me.  I meant it's like cracking a joke here.  I don't know about your end.  As you say some good folks exist, so I'm sure they do.  But not here where they're so few that it's probably not worth counting.  Allah knows it and that's enough. 

Intending no offence to anyone, Pakistani community here where I live is too reclusive to be of any help even in good times, let alone helping the needy. They only mix around with a very small circle of their own close community, usually extended family.  They might say 'salam' and 'hello' to others once in a while as a formality but it's easy to read how distant they are at heart.  Helping elderly Muslims with chores such as grocery shopping is really a joke for them, honestly.   I wish a day comes when I see that happen, InshAllah.  But I'm still waiting.
 


sis people do help each other especially those who earn less income ,secretly in different ways like ,for  exmpl ! ladies who know stitching and have good sewing skills they prefer them than professionals , people do sent their children to the homes of acquaintances,  to learn Quran ,and pay them for that with intention of help without hurting their self respect instead of given free food or money and bring others too  like friends and colleagues and sometimes help them regardlessly  Smiley that's also fine better than nothing , and also better than depending on mosque and community centres ...

Sis .. as I said I only speak what I see here.  However, even what you mentioned about your end is not enough, in that, as a system it's not extensive enough.  The most important question is, what do the masjids give them?  Is there an official welfare fund for the needy they can count upon during rainy days on a permanent basis?   These imams who run the masjids have pots of money.  They live in plush homes, have 2 or 3 family cars, send their kids to private Islamic schools with a fee of $650/- (at least) per kid, per month, and you see them using many other perks considered luxuries for commoners.  Yet they ask for donations from the commoners, and then no one has any idea where that damn money goes except that it doesn't benefit a single needy person.

Like you said, sending your children to learn the Quran at the homes of needy Muslims and paying them is a wonderful idea .. and yes, something is better than nothing.  But these are not substantial payments unless the money serves as a supplement, where the husbands or fathers are already working and earning a reasonable amount and the wife or daughter gets some pocket money by teaching the Quran.  But it might not be enough for those who need the money to survive because their welfare payments from the government don't suffice their meager needs.  Also such methods of payment don't have much permanency as they can end anytime; if that family moves to another neighborhood which is far away, obviously they will send their child to study the Quran at some other place closer to home.   For a more stable system, it's the masjid that must take the responsibility for the poor instead of spending the bulk of it on themselves for a high lifestyle.



... what i feel is,  it's weird ,unusual and unpleasant  situation for the immigrants those who come from the culture's and countries helping each other , ..... but life in west is based on living independently ,self help or asking professional help if they need ,and they are so, this is a true face of  western countries and society ,they usually don't believe in asking help rather they prefer to call professional services (even in cleaning or cooking too ) nor they help each other in free neither they mind if U don't , and muslims are very unpredicted in this regard .


Sister, I'm not focused on such Muslims.  Yes I know such ones also exist and no one cares for them neither do they care for others.   There are some who are financially stable or even well-to-do with profound desires to assimilate.  Many such ones (maybe not all) usually don't even care about going to masjids or living like practicing Muslims.  So I never meant them because majority of Muslim immigrants don't comprise of such ones .. at least not where I live and the ones I see.   

Being focused on majority of Muslim immigrants (mainly the elderly and even the middle-aged including single sisters, let's not forget them please) who come from our part of the world, with little or no resources, habituated to living with big families and then adapting to the western style of life based on self-help and seclusion is their hardest challenge.  Simply asserting that life here is different doesn't make it happen easily for many. 

And indeed distances are huge.  That's why I see elderly Muslims (particularly whose children are working in other cities or towns) going through hell.  This hellish existence could have been alleviated if our masjids had some sort of welfare system running as their first priority and a mandatory one.  That doesn't only mean giving money or essential commodities.  More importantly it includes visits by volunteers inquiring about their well-being.   But they don't.  That's primarily what I'm talking about.  Most of Europe, UK and Canada are welfare countries.  Yet our imams don't realize the importance of establishing a private welfare system of their own for the needy Muslims despite the massive funds they receive from countries like Saudi Arabia, Emirates, Kuwait and more.  Again, I can only speak for myself .. and I look upon this as a first priority.  The Noble Quran tells us to spend on feeding, clothing and helping the needy because that is the first priority, not on beautifying our existing masjids into looking like lavish 5-star hotels.  This is what I understand from my reading of the Quran.

It really breaks my heart to see the conditions in which so many are living while the imams drive BMWs and yet ask for donations.  On top of that, they don't even want to talk to them on a 'one on one' basis if they need any advise about daily life in accordance with Islamic guidelines, because there's no financial gain for the imams in offering individual advise.  Really mean!   Obviously in a community like this, the good ones are bound to be very few.  If this is the condition of teachers, what can one expect from their followers?


Regarding donations i feel people are now getting bit smart,clever and wise , first they don't open such junk emails ,second if they ever got trapped ,they simply tell the mosque ,imams and shaikhs ! we support our families back home and also some poor & needy people back home so we can't donate u as much u want but if u Accept 10 or 20 euro or as much we want to give u ,that's fine but don't  ask for more otherwise will stop visiting mosque don't behave like bhatta khor  or looters .

Well actually the "junk" mail that flood our inboxes are not from scammers and trolls, but from well-known Islamic centers many of which we have visited or often visit.  They also come from Muslim organizations in U.K.  Of course we never get 'trapped.'  That's not something we fear.  I'm simply talking about the attitude.   If people at all have to explain to their imams who keep pestering them for donations that they already have to support their families is itself an evidence of the imams being rip offs.    For that reason I say that bulk of the blame lies on the authorities that run the masjids and community centers who do have plenty of money but totally wrong spending priorities. 
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2014, 04:38:40 am »

Very truthful and upfront points Sister Heba, and it was heartening for me going through it.  Frankly I've thought on these lines many times.  Living here as a single Sister myself, I keep colliding with similar problems every now and then.  Even though I know you have a big & beautiful family, your understanding of others in different situations is remarkably and intelligently accurate dear Sister.  May Allah Almighty reward you and bless you for that.  Such selfless thoughts are rare in today's world. 



what i feel is,  it's weird ,unusual and unpleasant  situation for the immigrants those who come from the culture's and countries helping each other , ..... but life in west is based on living independently ,self help or asking professional help if they need ,and they are so, this is a true face of  western countries and society ,they usually don't believe in asking help rather they prefer to call professional services (even in cleaning or cooking too ) nor they help each other in free neither they mind if U don't , and muslims are very unpredicted in this regard .

Actually, the main reason they don't mind if others don't help them is because they know they are not willing to help others.  So to keep expectations down and in a bid for tit-for-tat relations, they don't want others to help them either.  It's that same mindset of avoiding responsibilities, fearing that if you ask others for help, they might also ask you for help some time.  Many people have this mentality .. and it's sad because it's a selfish sign.  I wouldn't call it assimilation nor adaptation, it's callousness.  The Western system of social / family life is completely different and devoid of the kind of values we have been taught to nurture.  Therefore, I don't think it can be seen as a positive gesture when Muslims  try to assimilate into Western social values.  I don't mean to say they should drive 45 miles everyday to visit their elderly relatives or the needy.  But at least they shouldn't go to the other extreme.  Unfortunately majority do, though there are few exceptions.  However it's the majority that carves an image or reputation.
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« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2014, 02:11:58 pm »

salam again !

oh ,sorry i misunderstood , okay sis get ur all points  Smiley , i agree masajid do nothing except given lectures,  asking money and  donation even to increase the numbers of mosques, they only talk talk and talk but imams never put any efforts to make official welfare fund system for the needy,  why ? because they are like rich people as rich want and like to see every needy and poor to keep begging them always , thats so true ,muslims lives here are too completely fed up and hopeless from big mosques , thats why small mosque here decided and tries to straighten up communities to help each other as much they can even for single sisters ,sorry for not to mentioning earlier. ,  Honestly speaking sis my experience is less than urís  ,but situation is worse at ur side and that's really very serious situation including single sisters problems . i wish every believer individually take step and come forward to help each other ameen  Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2014, 11:30:24 pm »

Wa'Salam folks.  Nice thread through and through.  Sis Muslima, thanks for sharing all that info.

Haha!  This is something I've been saying since the last 10 years or more.  Greed has gotten the better of our imams and so masjids have become venues of superficial pride.  If you're wealthy, if you donate big or if you're a public figure or celebrity, they will also agree to polish your shoes, otherwise you have to fend for yourself.  Haqiqat toh yehi hai, ap es baat ko pasand kerein ya nahi.




thats why small mosque here decided and tries to straighten up communities to help each other as much they can

hummm, as long as "small" mosques are small, they're more sober.  But when they gradually 'grow big' with more local donations and qualify receiving $$$$ from oil-rich gulf states, they start the same shaitaani

Now wait and see ....  abhi Leialtul Qadr aanay wala hai on 27th Ramadan, InshAllah, and it will a big business day for the imams and their chamchas, not a day for prayer.  Most masjids sell "tickets" for Leilatul Qadr which is usually organized in some costly hall with snacks.  Last year a well-known Islamic community center in U.K. kept the price at £ 100 per family.   Nauzbillah. 

To be very honest, I cannot even take money for teaching the Quran.  Just as Quran is a priceless Book, studying it is the unconditional right & entitlement of all Muslims.  Neither kids nor adults should pay money for being taught the Quran nor should the teacher demand it.  Money should be charged for regular tuition, not for teaching the Quran.  But the mentality has changed so much that even Leialtul Qadr is used as a money-making event.
 


,but situation is worse at ur side and that's really very serious situation including single sisters problems . i wish every believer individually take step and come forward to help each other ameen  Smiley

aray nah sis!  LOL  teethsmile  It's basically the same everywhere.  Just a few sweet grapes in a massive bunch of sour ones is no big deal.  Maybe you personally know some good folks .. may Allah bless them. Ameen.  But they're a drop in the ocean.  If consideration and kindness become a  culture in one place, it automatically spreads in other places of the same community too .. at least to some extent.  I don't know where you are; I am in Canada.  Many stories of lack of cooperation between the masjids and the Muslim masses coming from Europe and U.K. that I've heard and read are even more rattling than the selfishness here.  It's not only about finances.  It's lack of overall care.  Let me share one story based on first hand information.  There is a revert brother who was my husband's colleague when we were living in Kuwait several years ago.  He liked Islam very much.  So my husband talked to him a lot about it.  That brother is  Spanish, now lives in Spain but my husband is still in touch with him. He reverted when he went back to Spain. But after a few months he almost decided to return to his former faith.   Financially he is very strong, doesn't need any monetary help.  But after taking Shahadah, the masjid authorities simply left him on his own.  They couldn't care a shit for the guy.  No counseling, no private discussions to address the ups & downs in his personal situation as a new revert, no advise on how to communicate with his displeased non-Muslim family members who were all the time badgering him for reverting to Islam.  The poor brother was on the point of  a nervous breakdown.  Then my husband advised him to take a break and invited him for a visit here.  He stayed with us for 6 weeks.   We and all my family talked to him at length, gave him a lot of time and analyzed all his problems.  And finally after he left he felt like a different person.  Ever since then his mind has cleared up on how to handle difficult issues as a revert.  Of course he is now a very devout Muslim and also happily married to a Muslim sister from Turkey,  Alhumdulilah.  If my husband hadn't offered to help, he would have become a christian again because the masjids just wouldn't bother. 

Btw, also check the life of the Quran translator, Abdullah Yusuf Ali.  I wonder if you know of his tragic end.  He had settled in England.  Although I don't read his translations as I'm into Pichtall's ... yet Yusuf Ali was a very active community worker who contributed a lot for Britain's Muslims in the 1930s and 1940s.  But when he died as an old man, he was penniless, he was ill, he was homeless and he was found unconscious on the street when the police took him to a hospital where he died.  That was a public shame for the Muslim community of Britain, and that too in the early 1950s when cost of living was low.  Yet they did nothing to support an old a man who translated the Noble Quran and worked untiringly for the Muslims.  The reason they didn't bother was because financially he had become bankrupt after his divorce and other personal hardships.  So the imams of Britain didn't want to get bogged down with a poor man.  They forgot his past services and looked upon him as a liability. 

Ya Allah, I seek refuge in YOU from the selfishness of this world.

Here is Yusuf Ali's personal story in brief: 
http://syedirfanhyder.blogspot.ca/2013/08/sad-ending-of-abdullah-yousuf-ali.html
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