Registration of new members is currently closed. Guestbook opened for now.  Guests who have questions may post at our guestbook.  No lengthy debates please. Kindly note: MV is a place for serious learning through mutual consultation where we have zero tolerance for trouble-makers, narcissists and needless disputants. We simply stand for what is compatible with the Noble Quran regardless of titles such as "traditionalism" or "modernism." We have the right to our opinion just as you have the right to yours. All disagreements must be left at that. Final Judgement belongs to The Almighty.
MUSLIM VILLA - QURAN ONLY
April 16, 2024, 04:06:49 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Answering-Islam's FALSE claim of "mathematical error in hereditary law" of Quran

+-
Shoutbox
April 02, 2024, 07:27:22 pm Heba E. Husseyn: Details on Leila tul Qadr every Ramadan, links HERE.
November 01, 2023, 03:44:32 pm Zainab_M: Allahhuma ameen .. ameen.
November 01, 2023, 03:43:43 pm Ruhi_Rose: Yes .. making lots of dua everyday ..... watching those real life video clips, my face feels wet with tears all the time.  May ALLAH grant the best to these wonderful, brave & steadfast martyrs,  Ameen ya Allah.
November 01, 2023, 03:38:26 pm Zainab_M: Keep praying, praying a lot for Gaza. It's worse than a prison .. it's a concentration camp.  Children as young as 10 or 11 are having to care for their younger siblings ages 2, 3 and 4 becoz many have lost both parents.  It's a very, very, very tearful situation there.
October 26, 2023, 03:40:19 pm N. Truth Seeker: Don't forget to look up MV Blog Zainab's Lounge for our Gaza updates.
October 20, 2023, 04:24:44 pm Zainab_M: Right sister Heba.  Gaza hospital bombing has the fingerprints of Israel all over it.  For Israel this is no big crime.  They have done this and much worse many times in the past and intend to do the same and worse many more times in near future.
October 20, 2023, 04:20:20 pm Heba E. Husseyn: Catching Zionist lies isn't hard. Soon after Gaza hospital bombing killing and maiming hundreds, Israel was quick to accuse Islamic Jihad of a misfired rocket.  That didn't sound plausible because IJ does not have such sophisticated bombing devices.  Zionist lie was fully exposed when anglican archbishop of Jerusalem,Hosam Naoum,  said today that 3 or 4 days prior to boming Israel had warned Gaza hospital to evacuate. Yet CIA claims in its flawed analysis that the rocket did not come from Israel.  But conveniently does not explain how Israel could have known 4 days earlier that a "misfired" rocket from IJ was coming.  Yet on the basis of this flawed & bias analysis of CIA, Biden is comforting Israel he believes Israel didn't do that war crimes bombing.
July 29, 2023, 03:02:07 am Zainab_M: Yesterday was Ashura, Muharram 10, 1444 (July 27, 2023).  Read about this very tragic day and details of the world's greatest 7th century revolutionary: WHO WAS HUSSEIN.
View Shout History
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Answering-Islam's FALSE claim of "mathematical error in hereditary law" of Quran  (Read 7661 times)
0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4351



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2018, 08:55:19 am »



Salam Sister Heba, Sister Zeynab.

My parents, sister and me have been working on this since yesterday, and your additional input was truly helpful.   Even if you read the entire Verse 4:12 from the start, the portion of the Verse we're discussing doesn't give reasons to be seen as reference to half siblings.

Let me quote the entire Verse 4:12:
"And for you is half of what your wives leave if they have no child. But if they have a child, for you is one fourth of what they leave, after any bequest they [may have] made or debt. And for the wives is one fourth if you leave no child. But if you leave a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave, after any bequest you [may have] made or debt. And if a man or woman leaves neither ascendants nor descendants but has a brother or a sister, then for each one of them is a sixth. But if they are more than two, they share a third, after any bequest which was made or debt, as long as there is no detriment [caused]. [This is] an ordinance from Allah , and Allah is Knowing and Forbearing."   4:12  (sahih international translation).

Okay .... as we can understand easily, a widower (male) gets half of his wife's inheritance if there is no child.  If there is a child, then the widowed husband gets one-fourth.    A widow (female) gets one-fourth of her husband's inheritance if there is no child.  If there is a child, then she gets one-eighth.   And then the Verse mentions of the situation we're discussing, the contents of which seem quite independent.  Right?

I also must say that several translators have stirred quite a confusion with their incorrect translations to keep it in conformity with the traditional opinion of half siblings.  Let me quote some as follows:

"And if the man or woman has no heir in the direct line, but has a brother or sister,"   (traslation Islamic Studies UK).

"If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister,"   (traslation Yusuf Ali).

Muhsin Ali has translated much the same as Yusuf Ali.

"If a man or a woman have no heir direct, but have a brother or a sister,"  (translation Arberry)

Pickthall mentions "distant heir" and that too not in brackets when the original does not say "distant." 

Word by word English translation of the Quran says "And if a man is to be inherited" (meaning whose wealth is to be inherited) ...... the original Quranic word for "inherited" is 'yurasu.'   So I don't know why those translators are putting up clearly wrong translations like "inheritance in question" and "heir direct"  and "distant heir."    Well, that's our great advantage of having the original Quran preserved with us, Alhumdulilah, so we can monitor the changes the translators make.    However, on this issue my goal is only to find the likely reason for the differing inheritances in both verses for siblings .. and as you correctly said, there sure got to be a reason.  In case it does refer to half siblings, I want to know which circle of traditional studies it's coming from and the analysis of this opinion.  InshAllah, I shall continue my endeavors in this regard.

Thank you very much Sister Heba for your additional, logically evaluated opinion.  It was helpful as always.
 
My mom is of the opinion that your reading of Verse 4:12 referring to the deceased having only spouse and siblings  and Verse 4:176 as deceased having only siblings makes a lot of sense.  But my dad agrees with the other opinion more, that it refers to half siblings because he thinks that if the difference in inheritance amounts in both Verses is because of the possible presence of spouse in Verse 4:12, then Allah Almighty would have mentioned it.  Furthermore, my dad also thinks that since it's stated in both Verses that the deceased is childless, thus that probably denotes an unmarried person as a standard description, that is, the deceased is unmarried ....  though marriages can certainly also be childless which is also referred in the first portion of Verse 4:12 quoted above.

At the end of the day, you're right, it doesn't make much difference to that lady's will.  Maybe she can make a few adjustments.  If I was in her shoes, I would try to adjust my will in accordance with Verse 4:176 as apparently her situation fits better in this Verse.  I mean, she can keep a reasonable bequest for the niece and divide the rest between the bad brothers .. though jerks .. after all they happen to be her full biological brothers and for the benefit of her own soul in the Hereafter, she cannot ignore them as much as she may understandably want to.

Any ideas on circumstantial adjustments while following Verse 4:176 with a bequest so that testate can keep it closest to the instructions of this Verse?
 

   
Report Spam   Logged


Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Scammers & spammers will be reported | © If you borrow MV contents you must mention our link with hypertext | MV Team is not responsible for comments by members or guests.
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum


Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy