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Recording angels or Kiraman-Katibin (كراماً كاتبين )


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Author Topic: Recording angels or Kiraman-Katibin (كراماً كاتبين )  (Read 5726 times)
Zeynab
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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2019, 11:35:58 am »



Walaikum Salaam dear Sister Ruhi.   Yes, though Allah knows best, I would presume that these terms refer to recording angels. 

Additionally, here is the tafsir by Abu Alaa Maududi on Verses 50:17-21 which explains the Verses very clearly and you may find it helpful.

Quote:

..... each person has two angels appointed over them.  These angels are recording whatever every person does and says; none of their actions or words is left unrecorded.  This means that when a person is produced in the Court of Allah,  then Allah The All-Knower will be already knowing what each person has done in the world; besides, there will also be two witnesses who will produce documentary evidence of the person's actions and deeds. As to what will be the nature of this documentary evidence, it is difficult for us to have a precise conception of it. But from the facts that we are witnessing today, it seems certain that the voices, pictures, marks and movements of human actions are being preserved and imprinted on every particle of the environment in which they live and work, and each one of these can be reproduced in exactly the same form and voice so as to leave no difference whatever between the original and its copy.  Humankind is doing this on a very limited scale with the help of their inventions, but the angels of Allah do not stand in need of these machines nor are bound by any limitation. The body of humankind itself and everything around it is their tape and their film upon which they can record every voice and every image along with its minutest and most delicate detail precisely and exactly, and can make humankind hear on the Day of Resurrection, with their own ears, in their own voice, those very things which they talked in the world, and can make them see with their own eyes the pictures of all their misdeeds, whose genuineness they would not possibly be able to deny.

Here, one should also understand that in the Court of the Hereafter, Allah will not punish anybody only on the basis of His own knowledge, but will punish them after fulfilling all the requirements of justice. That is why an exhaustive record is being prepared of every person's words and deeds in the world so that a complete proof with undeniable evidence becomes available of everyone's life-work and activity.

..... the agony of death is the starting point when the reality which had remained concealed in the world, begins to be unveiled. At this point every human being starts to see clearly the other world of which the Prophet (pbuh) had forewarned them. Here, humankind also comes to know that the Hereafter is the very truth, and also whether they will be entering this second stage of life as favored or damned. 

At this point, humans are reminded that this is the same reality which they refused to believe. They desired that they should live and go about unbridled in the world, and there should be no other life after death in which they may have to suffer for the consequences of their ill deeds.  Thus they shunned the concept of the Hereafter and were not at all inclined to believe that this next world would ever be established. Now they see that the same next world is unveiling itself before them.

Blowing of the Trumpet implies all dead will rise back to life in their own physical bodies.

A driver and a witness most probably refer to the same two angels who had been appointed for compiling the record of the words and deeds of every person in the world. On the Day of Resurrection, when every person will rise from their grave on the sounding of the Trumpet, the two (recording) angels will come forth immediately and take each person into their custody. One of them will drive him to the Divine Court and the other will be carrying his record.


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Ruhi_Rose
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« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2019, 11:41:03 am »



Aw!  tons of thanks my dear sis.   Indeed a very satisfying read and most helpful.

Alhumdulilah, ya Rab.



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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2019, 09:57:12 am »



SubhanAllah, this tafsir is very good.
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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2020, 09:50:44 am »



Was going through this marvelous post again and it reminded me to ask, what do you folks think about the difference between Maghfirah (مغفرة) and Afu (عفو) as explained by our mainstream jurists?
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« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2020, 10:28:16 am »


Hummm, though Maghfirah and Afu are both Quranic terms with very simple definitions, the concept that has emerged differentiating between the two words comes from a du'a in Hadith.  The Noble Quran does not give us any reasons to accept that differentiating aspect. 
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« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2020, 10:29:43 am »



Absolutely right Sister Zeynab.
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« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2020, 10:32:00 am »



Yes very true, Maghfirah and Afu are both Quranic terms with easy-to-understand definitions. 

But what's the difference portrayed by Hadith between these two words?   I don't know that.
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« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2020, 10:53:48 am »


Maghfirah means forgiveness from Allah and Afu means The Pardoner or the Most Forgiving, that is, Allah Himself.  Both these terms are found in the Quran several times.  Our jurists say there's a difference between the concept of Maghfirah and Afu but the Noble Quran does not reflect that at all.

According to Hadith and extra-Quranic sources, Maghfirah is Allah’s forgiveness for your sin but on the Day of Judgement it will be written on your record.  Allah will question you about it but HE won’t punish you for it.  Afu is forgiveness from Allah for our sins and that sin will be completely erased from our records and Allah won't question us about it on the Day of Judgment, as if it never happened.

From what I know, it was developed from a du'a in the following Hadith. Tirmidhi Book 9, Hadith 1195:
Aisha (ra) asked the Prophet: "O Messenger of Allah! If I realize Lailat-ul-Qadr (Night of Decree), what should I supplicate in it?" He (ﷺ) replied, "You should supplicate:Allahumma innaka 'afuwwun, tuhibbul-'afwa, fa'fu 'anni الْلَّهُمَّ اِنَّكَ عَفُوٌّ تُحِبُّ الْعَفْوَ فَاعْفُ عَنَّي'  O Allah, You are The Forgiver, You Love Forgiveness, so Forgive me'.

The Quran does not convey this idea. Allah says in the Quran that He is very forgiving and of course He mentions the huge importance of acquiring His forgiveness.  What happens to the sins of a person recorded in their book of records is not discussed in the Quran.  Only Allah Almighty knows whether or not recorded sins will be deleted from our book of records.  We cannot make any assumptions on that.  If we are fortunate enough to receive Maghfirah or Afu, it's the same as far as we are concerned. 

 
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« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2020, 10:55:25 am »



Ah!  I see.  I now get it.  I don't know why our folks don't learn to focus on their own responsibilities instead of  prying into the responsibilities of Allah Almighty and then making stories out of it based on the unreliable institutions Hadith narrations. 

Plenty of thanks for this, brother.
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« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2020, 10:57:38 am »



lol ,, that's the old problem with them.  They love to come up with too many conceptualizations not contained in the Quran.

You're welcome Sister. 



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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2020, 03:05:45 am »



Very well explained and commented, brother TS and sister Ruhi. 

I think this conceptualization on difference between Maghfirah and Afu goes beyond the hadith.  Even that hadith supplication does not convey the idea of such a difference between the two words.  Maghfirah = forgiveness and Afu = The Forgiver (Allah).   So, I've wondered much how the notion of Maghfirah as forgiven but unerased sins and Afu as forgiven and erased sins came about.  Apparently it was a personal thought of some medieval jurist.


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« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2020, 11:38:52 am »



Your observation is absolutely right Sister Zeynab.  Apparently hadith too has been hoodwinked on this one by storytellers.  It's because that hadith supplication contains the root word 'Afu' so it was stretched further by someone's unfounded opinion on claiming 'Afu' isn't the same as Maghfirah.  Although in this hadith, Afu refers to The Forgiver (Allah Almighty).

 
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« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2020, 11:39:54 am »



Exactly brother, that's what I noticed too.
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« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2020, 11:42:58 am »



Very helpful to know all your opinions.  I had been thinking the same, wanted to compare my views yours.
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