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amenorrhoea,POCS and Verse 65.4.....and ffi goons


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Author Topic: amenorrhoea,POCS and Verse 65.4.....and ffi goons  (Read 1145 times)
Parvez Mushtaq
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« on: August 08, 2015, 02:17:54 pm »

Assalamualaikum Rhamatullahi Wabarakathahu

Sr Heba ,I will start this thread with your post in

http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=1551.msg15857#msg15857

As per you

Walaikum As-Salam brother Mushtaq.   ...
..
I wouldn't know in what context ffi talked of amenorrhœa.  They must have taken it up inadvertently otherwise kufaar always try to intentionally conceal citations of various scientific fields that are clearly illuminated in the Noble Quran. 

 


I think probably i was the first to think the verse 65.4 was talking about menstrual cycles
If i remember correctly , i got this idea while studying about mensuration 
The entire classification of Primary ameneorea was dealt separately
just go through few of my posts their
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=3399#p3399
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=3943#p3943(kafir)


i think i was the first to ask this question to kafirs (about "yet" in verse 65.4)

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=3970#p3970

If you go through that thread you find how they all beaten by me and Khalil (a) haik was forced to take back his challenge
he not only deleted his silly article but also stopped writing about Islam 
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=5689#p5689
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=10108#p10108

Regards

Mushtaq

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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2015, 11:38:26 pm »

Thanks Brother PM.  You did a fine job with your insightful responses.  The substandard arguments presented by ffi is mind boggling.  It amazes me how a bunch of people claiming to be normal adults can be so slip-shod.  As I see, ffi's interest revolves only around insults and quarrels, a very old strategy of Islamophobes to distract naive readers in the hope of scoring some points for their hate-based arguments.  But as usual, they haven't succeeded one bit. 

Someone in this ffi link with ID ""ixolite" writes:

Quote -
Q 65:4 clearly is about the 3 stages of a female life without periods, which are: pre-puberty, pregnancy and menopause. Diseases are not mentioned at all in this verse.
Unquote -

If this person thinks V.65:4 does not include diseases because they're "not mentioned," then according to that same perception, is prepuberty spelled out as a confirmation?  In fact, pregnancy must be excluded because it's separately stated in the same Verse that pregnant women must wait until they deliver - "for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden."  That means they do not have to observe the standard iddah of 3 months.  Their waiting period is until the birth of the baby. There is no evidence for ffi to claim that the expression "those who have it not." refers only to prepuberty and menopause.  Pregnant women excluded, it points to two categories of non-menstruating women - menopausal or absence of menstruation which can have several sub-categories  depending on the precise medical condition of each case. However, all of this falls into  "those who have it not." classification, that is, amenorrhea.  That's crystal clear for which there can be not a shadow of a doubt. Maybe back in the 7th century people probably didn't understand this condition, but we do know it now.

That person "ixolite" conveniently eluded using examples.  What if a 22-year-old woman gets divorced who suddenly stopped menstruating one or two years earlier at age 20 or so.  Or, let's say, a woman suffering from congenital hormonal disorder who never had a menstrual cycle yet (but is otherwise healthy) gets married off at age 18 and divorced at age 20.  At these stages of life, these females neither stand at prepuberty nor normal menopause.   So, are we supposed to view them as 'menstruating female' just because ffi is intellectually too feeble to grasp the biological intricacies within the human body?  And no, I'm not being an "apologist," a buzz word these kuffar keep repeating like a broken record each time we explain the truth about the Noble Quran.  Today in the 21st century, amenorrhea prevails among 8% of women in North America alone despite advanced medical treatments.  That's quite a high percentage.  While at this point I'm not sure of the precise statistical figures of other regions, it would undoubtedly be higher in the developing world where aspects relating to infertility go untreated more often.  And just imagine how much higher the percentage must have been hundreds of years ago when there was no treatment at all for gynae problems, be it primary or secondary.


Related Posts:

The Noble Quran does NOT mention marriage of under-age girls

Noble Quran does NOT allow marriage with adopted daughters
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2015, 11:46:01 pm »

Another kaffir scumbag by the name ""rudassharman"" (sounds like some mentally handicapped heathen-radical from the era of Ignoranc) with an evidently zero IQ scribbles a comment that's making no head or tail.

Quote -
The "aim" of iddah is irrelevant. The fact is that iddah is solely determined by whether intercourse has occurred (marriage has been consummated)."
Unquote -

What is this person talking??  His ignorance goes to such depths that he  does not even know what the word "iddah" (العدة)  means.  Additionally he has made it ample clear that he hasn't even read Verse 65:4, let alone understanding it or reflecting on it, obviously because he knows he is neither capable of it nor inclined  to it.

Verses 1 to 7 of Surah At-Talaq specifically discuss the separation and waiting period during which, first of all, a couple must  decide on the future course of their marriage - reconciliation or divorce.  And then, in case of divorce, comes the relevance of iddah in order to have no future doubts about a child's paternity if the wife has already conceived prior to the period of separation or iddah.  Thus, iddah is a the central focus of this aspect and of Verse 65:4.   And this fool is claiming "iddah is irrelevant"??  On the other hand he is talking about consummation of marriage which is not at all the issue under discussion in this Surah.  Separation between a married couple may occur any time after marriage - 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years or longer.  Is anyone required to prove the aspect of consummation of that marriage if they separate after half a decade or a decade of marriage?  Certainly not.  But what does need to be confirmed is whether or not there are any upcoming issues from that marriage which brings about the huge relevance of iddah.
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2015, 11:57:07 pm »

This moron and enemy of Allah has confused the contents of this Verse with Verse 33:49 of Surah Al-Ahzab where Allah says that if divorce takes place immediately after marriage or soon after taking the marriage pledge (and of course in all such cases the marriage has definitely not been consummated), then no waiting period (iddah) is required.  But a financial settlement or gift is still incumbent upon the groom for the bride to guarantee financial security of women prior to consummation of marriage.  Same law is also highlighted in V.2:236.  And of course security of divorced women after consummation of marriage is amply defined from Verses 1 to 7 of Surah At-Talaq under discussion. 

"O ye who believe! If ye wed believing women and divorce them before ye have touched them, then there is no period that ye should reckon. But content them and release them handsomely."  (33:49).

This ffi hindu madman is taking bits and pieces of whatever he can recall and trying to make a comment out of it, having no idea of the contextual connection between V.65:4 and V.33:49.

To be honest, it's a waste of time talking to these people.  When Allah Almighty dooms an evil person for their refusal to see light, no one can help such people.  They are an abandoned folk and they will get their full 'due' unabated on the Day of Judgment, InshAllah.

"Lo! those for whom the word of thy Rab (concerning sinners) has effect will not believe,  Though every token come unto them, till they see the painful doom."   (10:96-97).


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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2015, 12:27:57 am »

Yes right, brother TS.    All of those ffi and AI buggers are additionally just as confused as they are ignorant and uneducated.

Another attitude of theirs which is a real blood boiler is their incessant use of hadith and extra-Quranic writings as an attempt to win a debate.  Just a glance at that thread tells that it's littered with hadith stuff all over.  For fact finders like us, this is a very transgressive strategy. 

I view it as imperative NOT to use any information from the Hadith.  Hadith plays NO role explaining the Quran nor is it logically nor authentically in a position to justify itself.  Hadith is simply an interpolated Muslim counterpart of the totally altered Jewish and Christian bibles. 

Bringing up Hadith into a Quranic discussion is itself a sign intellectual weakness.  Quoting folks like Ibn Kathir & co. carries no weight in a discourse from a truth seeker's perspective.  These so-called imams were bracing neck and neck in idiocy to the kuffar of ffi etc.  Just because they were incapable of analyzing beyond the usual non-menstruating females below 12 and menopausal females over 50 does NOT mean that the talk ends there.  Moreover, they are NO authority over the Quran.  No one is, except Allah Himself.  The Noble Quran is an Independent, Standalone Book.  It's Laws are to be analyzed based on its own evidences, principles and guidelines.  Dragging an institution as horribly tainted, bungled and corrupted as the Hadith is a very discrepant and unacceptable approach in attempting to explain the Quran, let alone using such felony as "proofs" of one's bickerings.

You will always find the agent provocateurs of ffi, AI etc. unleashing a flurry of tales forged by Hadith narrators & compilers also included in commentaries of medieval gossip mongers like Tafsir al-Jalalayan, Tafsir Tabari, Tafsir Asbab Nazul, Ibn Taimiyah etc. etc. which to a truth-seeker amounts to 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0.  These kuffar pepper every discussion board with false sources because all such forgeries provide them with the ammunition they're looking for to slander Islam.   A true Quranic discussion in the real sense of the term is NOT inhibited by any clerical assertions.  As usual, 90% of the thread on that link contains nothing but extra-Quranic materials with notions and insinuations notorious for their inconsistencies with the Quran or totally unwarranted by the Quran mixed with ffi's baseless sarcasms.   

Analogically, quoting one hadith-based tafsir after another is like getting one thief to favorably testify for another thief in a court of law.  That cannot be recognized, can it?  Because it would amount to felony.   

To discuss Quranic Verses the only three prerequisites are :-

1) Evidences, principles and concepts must be present within the Quran itself.

2) Scientific evidences and concepts - very important part of the Quran.

3) Common sense and logic.

That's it.  Anyone who steps beyond this consolidated boundary goes into the trash can along with their forged and hate-mongering gossips.
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2015, 12:48:10 am »


Analogically, quoting one hadith-based tafsir after another is like getting one thief to favorably testify for another thief in a court of law.  That cannot be recognized, can it?  Because it would amount to felony.   

To discuss Quranic Verses the only three prerequisites are :-

1) Evidences, principles and concepts must be present within the Quran itself.

2) Scientific evidences and concepts - very important part of the Quran.

3) Common sense and logic.

That's it.  Anyone who steps beyond this consolidated boundary goes into the trash can along with their forged and hate-mongering gossips.

Exactly sister Smiley  Very succinctly put.  Alhumdulilah.  That's why these hoodlums from rogue sites like ffi, ai etc. never even attempt to join here.  They do keep hovering and sniffing around for hours and then take off.  That's because they are aware that when cornered to play fair, they cannot manipulate nor distort the facts.  And hence it does not put them in a favorable position to malign, attack and ridicule.   

After all, this is precisely the sick modus operandi followed by Salman Rushdi (who is on the same podium of mischief as ffi and AI vandals) for raising his public image via his substandard ideas as in his rotten book, Satanic Verses.  He simply cashed on the lies penned by Tabari.  Concerning that depraved book, Satanic Verses, both Rushdi and Tabari carry the same sinful responsibilities, for which InshAllah, both will rot in Hell on the Day of Resurrection.

All details of the shaitaani of Rushdi and Tabari have been exposed in our post Mischief of Rushdi originated from the lies of Tabari for reference of our readers.
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2015, 12:52:24 am »

Spot on.  And thanks for posting that link about those two Hell-bound partners in crime - Rushdi and Tabari.   Truth must be exposed.
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2015, 10:19:46 pm »

A very productive thread as always that confers a humiliating mental beating to the trouble-making kuffar.


A couple of excellent excerpts from our past posts for further info of readers.

"The Quranic values and principles completely clash with the idea of marriage of underage girls. The institution of marriage and its responsibilities have been articulately highlighted in the Quran. Marriage is categorically portrayed as an accountable pledge that brings with itself the duties of raising a family, managing a household, managing relationships, inheriting & handling husband's assets. It's not humanely possible for a girl aged 13 or under to face such issues." - Sister Zeynab: Noble Quran does not allow marriage with adopted daughters.


"According to child marriage traditions in Arabia, an under age pre-menstrual girl who might be married with just the 'nikah' ceremony would basically mean a commitment to future marriage .. much like an engagement ceremony .... prior to the actual marriage when the couple start living together.  This is known as the bride's departure ceremony and is a separate gathering.  The marriage is consummated only after this ceremony, not after the 'nikah' .... In the case of an under age girl, she would live with her parents after the 'nikah' till she matured.  So, there's no waiting time for under age pre-menstrual girls in case of a divorce.  They don't qualify for Iddah.  As per customary rules, they wouldn't start living with their husbands till they began menstruating.  Therefor, while living with her husband, she would be a menstruating female and not in the category of those who still await their periods. Even according to the Hadith where they've concocted this story of Aisha's (ra) child marriage, Aisha's nikah took place when she was 6 years old (and pre-menstrual) and went to live with her husband at age 9 or 10 after maturity."  - Sister Heba: The Noble Quran does NOT mention marriage of under-age girls
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2015, 01:55:00 pm »

Thanks Brother PM.  You did a fine job with your insightful responses.  The substandard arguments presented by ffi is mind boggling.  It amazes me how a bunch of people claiming to be normal adults can be so slip-shod.  As I see, ffi's interest revolves only around insults and quarrels, a very old strategy of Islamophobes to distract naive readers in the hope of scoring some points for their hate-based arguments.  But as usual, they haven't succeeded one bit. 


Thank you Sr
Btw i like your title "PM"

 
Quote from: Zeynab
.......Or, let's say, a woman suffering from congenital hormonal disorder who never had a menstrual cycle yet (but is otherwise healthy) gets married off at age 18 and divorced at age 20.  At these stages of life, these females neither stand at prepuberty nor normal menopause.   So, are we supposed to view them as 'menstruating female' just because ffi is intellectually too feeble to grasp the biological intricacies within the human body?  And no, I'm not being an "apologist," a buzz word these kuffar keep repeating like a broken record each time we explain the truth about the Noble Quran.  Today in the 21st century, amenorrhea prevails among 8% of women in North America alone despite advanced medical treatments......
I think i have dealt this even then itself
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=6343#p6343
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2015, 02:28:22 pm »

To be honest, it's a waste of time talking to these people.  When Allah Almighty dooms an evil person for their refusal to see light, no one can help such people.  They are an abandoned folk and they will get their full 'due' unabated on the Day of Judgment, InshAllah.


You are absolutely correct Sr
It is waste of time talking to them
i open my thread at page 9 just look at them ,how they are barking
they are at page 12 now
but i doubt any of these morons have read the thread completely before posting
they even dont know what the thread was about and what was the outcome
by ALLAH ,i have't read a single post after page 9
LOL ...but they are still barking 
i reopened that thread for some specific purpose
that thread is like a sign of ALLAH subhanavathala upon the horizon for me
i am working on it may in a day or i will post it here
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2015, 03:27:34 pm »

Assalamualikum Rahamatullahi Wabakathahu
It all started while answering a quote on the at gawaher
http://www.gawaher.com/topic/742057-child-marriage-in-islam/#entry1285806
Initially I was not aware of the links posted here
http://www.gawaher.com/topic/742057-child-marriage-in-islam/#entry1285807
and I don’t care to read them as I knew about the fatwa at islamqa
When I clicked the other link and read I was surprised it was talking of amenorrhea
As far as I know, I was the first to talk about it at ffi way back in 2009 and after a couple of years  I left writing and not actively involved in any forums as it was not my bread and butter (I wish  ALLAH should have made this as my daily bread and I would have been very happy if ALLAH made this as my whole time job)
After seeing this fatwa I Google out for amenorrhea and I was surprised to find a huge lot out there who have accepted I opinion ! Alhamdulilah!
Initially I was angry and even frustrated because people were making money out of my opinion without taking my consent but later I thought who am I to decide regarding what ALLAH has given me
It is only ALLAH subhanavatala who decides

inna Allaha yarzuqu man yashao bighayri hisabin

And more over no one can hold piracy upon his ideas on net   


BUT….


One thing that was banging my mind like a hammer on the pin’s head is that number 6549
If you notice my mail ID it is mfmk_6549@ya
Note that 6549
As far as I know I opened this mail account way back in 2005
I think in 2005 I use to read quran only in English (translation and transliteration) not in Arabic because I feebly knew Arabic in those days
My first encounter with this number was in 1996 (if remember correctly) that was when I first bought my first bike with my hard earn money .My first bike carried the number plate of number 4569
After few days when I open my first bank account, surprisingly it carried the number 6549
When I told my friend about this number he suggested not leave this numbers as they can be lucky to me
So I got attached to this number 6549 (after all it was my bank account number). I started using these numbers almost everywhere ….in passwords (not now, don’t try the fool..lol),in my IDs  and this was the main reason for using this numbers in my mail id
and years passed by ...later i got married ...Dr zakir naik...bilal Philips .. then going in to silly forums like ffi ...all those stuff

So what about this number 6549? Why I am talking about them so seriously?
I think readers must be aware of Déjà vu
But what is this 6549
Is it surah 65 verse 4
Was this is the indication from the almighty much before I was involved with Islam   
Or is it a sign from ALLAH that I am going to win the debate regarding surah 65 verse 4 from the enemies of islam on their own forum
After all it was they who were throwing mud on us using this verse but ALLAH made them to help me to take back their mud and clean it
Is this called Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena
Lol look at them, they cleared verse with their own hands
Because whoever ,whether Muslim or a kafir ,if he is talking about amenorrhea he must have read my debate at ffi 
They were beaten to ground and they buried their head inside the ground on the page 9
They were beaten and they ran away on page 9 of their own forum!!!
See who is contributing to Muslim ummah ….ffi
They should realize this and stop writing against Islam


Regards

Mushtaq
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2015, 02:44:28 pm »

Thanks Sr Heba
Before answering your post i want you to take a look at this ayah
Surah: 20   Aya: 94
[Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, do not seize [me] by my beard or by my head. Indeed, I feared that you would say, 'You caused division among the Children of Israel, and you did not observe [or await] my word.' "
PL note that A prophet of ALLAH Subhanavatala tolerating idol worship
and further note the reason for his tolerance
But today with could not accommodate our own brethren and never hesitate to form sects
These present situation  reminds me one more ayah from the Quran
Surah: 2   Aya: 113
The Jews say "The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on," and the Christians say, "The Jews have nothing to stand on," although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ.

don’t you think we fit this ayah , only we have to change jews and christian with our present sects



Another attitude of theirs which is a real blood boiler is their incessant use of hadith and extra-Quranic writings as an attempt to win a debate.  Just a glance at that thread tells that it's littered with hadith stuff all over.  For fact finders like us, this is a very transgressive strategy. 

I view it as imperative NOT to use any information from the Hadith.  Hadith plays NO role explaining the Quran nor is it logically nor authentically in a position to justify itself.  Hadith is simply an interpolated Muslim counterpart of the totally altered Jewish and Christian bibles. 


I agree with you Sr but at the same time Ahadith and extra Quranic writings are reality that is staring at us  .I think we cannot blame hadith or Extra Quranic writing instead we have to  blame ourselves .Till 4 or 5 decades ago we were depending upon our scholars and ahadith .Suddenly we cannot transform ourselves .To me ,all extra Quranic information are nothing but historical references regarding Quran .We cannot take everything at the same time we cannot omit everything.If we have this in our mind then i think we can accommodate every sects and we can truncate each sects one by one .Insah ALLAH

Bringing up Hadith into a Quranic discussion is itself a sign intellectual weakness.  Quoting folks like Ibn Kathir & co. carries no weight in a discourse from a truth seeker's perspective.
Again ,Quran is not the book that is to be read and kept at the top compartment of our cabinet
People down the ages made Qruan as their way of life
As far as I know, People like Ibn Katir were the best in their age
i think At each era ALLAH made certain group of people to study Quran forward it new era
this may be they way of ALLAH subhanavatala to preserve his book
they did their job with fear and piety with the available sources
Don’t forget that these people lean only on history and not science 
Down the ages people were taking these things as their way of life

They were good people but now we take ahadith and other Extra Qurnic writing to quarrel each other
So don’t blame them instead blame us
For example
while have this debate at ffi , i was in contact with IRGC Chennai
When i asked them they said "yes, there is provision of marry child as per sharia"
Note it carefully ...it is sharia
And people felt no harm in that and even there was no argument about these things
immeterial of the religions they all followed the same practice
This was the reality
But time changes with it life style of human also changes
I think it wrong to say we will follow what our forefathers followed
It is high time for us to sit and make changes
Lol..do you think is it  possible among us
Quote from: Heba link=topic=4553.msg15880#msg15880 date=1439267277
medieval gossip mongers like Tafsir al-Jalalayan, Tafsir Tabari, Tafsir Asbab Nazul, Ibn Taimiyah etc. etc. which to a truth-seeker amounts to 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0.

 i think you have to reconsider your opining about these people
If they were not struggling than what would have happened to those people living in their ages
Today we feel they were wrong but what about tomorrow...Someone may feel we are wrong as well
One thing is quite clear Sr
Whatever be the age ….people may change...Their opinion may change ….but word of  ALLAH subhanawatala remains intact
It suits every era and every kind of nation
That is why i say The most modern religion is Islam and it is even ahead of these times
SubhanALLAH

Regards
Mushtaq



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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2015, 12:47:04 am »

As-salaam Alaikum.  Brother Pervez Mushtaq ...

Needless to say, I agree sectarianism within the pan-Islamic world is hugely unfortunate. 


Secondly, we made it very very clear in our introduction, About us, that we DO NOT entertain any extra Quranic information starting with Hadith. This point has been made clear at the very title of this board.  If that's the way you feel you should have clarified it in your guestbook intro.  It means you haven't yet read 'About us' (link given).  Therefore your above opinion is just yours.  It does NOT represent that of Muslim Villa and neither do we consider it worth responding.  If we were in need of such lengthy instructions on considering extra-Quranic writings, we wouldn't have started this forum.  However, we're not in the habit of boasting over our works and researches. 

If you are not comfortable with our ideology, you are welcomed to leave.  But please do not peddle the 'importance' of extra-Quranic ideas here.  That would mean breaking one of the most important rules of our forum.  

Also please refrain from volunteering personal info such an vehicle number, a/c number, etc.    Neither are we interested in any member's personal stories or triumphs.  We are only interested in promoting the Quran, the approach for which has been amply articulated at About us and also by Sister Heba in this thread.

Thank you.
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2015, 02:09:35 am »


There are scores of traditional forums across the web that follow the Hadith and the stories of medieval clerics.  If someone doesn't agree with being focused only on the Quran as we do, then why do they come here of their own choosing?
 
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Zeynab
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2015, 02:33:33 am »

Right Sister Ruhi.
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