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Sectarianism: Hadith on 73 sects compared to Quran Only view


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Author Topic: Sectarianism: Hadith on 73 sects compared to Quran Only view  (Read 1002 times)
Parvez Mushtaq
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« on: August 25, 2015, 02:24:35 pm »

Assalamualaikum Rahamatullahi Wabarakathu

A believer , as per quran verse 285 of surah baqra is
The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination."

As the last part of the ayah says he believes in Quran and he says samiAAna waataAAna ,We hear and we obey

Now our famous hadith
It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”
And pl read the fatwa
http://islamqa.info/en/90112

The fatwa was given based on the hadith and not even a single reference was made to quran
It is evident that the fatwa was aimed to prove that Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah is the only saved group
But I see the above hadith immediately divides ummah into 73 factions, one that is saved and the others going to get doomed.

Now let us have look at quranic verses about factions
Surah: 6   Aya: 159
Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only
to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

A clear and straight forward statement from quran
You don’t even have to derive a analogy (qiyas)
A clear statement. Those who form sects they are not from the ummah of Prophet Mohammed slallahualaivasallam
If we say, we are one among 73 and we are the saved group you approve 73 sects and thus divided the religion which disassociate us from prophet Mohammed sallaahuwasallam
This is not my saying .This is what Quran says the one who divides the ummah
I don’t know what kind of fatwa is this. This is ridiculous, lol they are even taking pride in dividing the religion of ALLAH and even not bothered to pay heed to this above ayah.
They are even calling the other groups are the doomed one when Quran has the different story to tell
Let us see one more ayah from the quran
Surah: 20   Aya: 94
[Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, do not seize [me] by my beard or by my head. Indeed, I feared that you would say, 'You caused division among the Children of Israel, and you did not observe [or await] my word.' "

Another clear  statement from quran
If there is one sin which is more heinous than shrik, then it is nothing but one those who form sects
A prophet of ALLAH tolerating idol worship in order to avoid division and this fatwa boast on a hadith and the fatwa of scholars that they are the rightly guided one and they take the pride in dividing the ummah into 73 sets
This is the sunnah of quran
Can there be anything more authentic source than quran
I don’t know why scholars have omitted this ayah .why they cannot give fatwa based on this ayahs .I don’t know  what is stopping them to adhere this ayahs.

Now go back to original definition of a believer in verse 2.285
samiAAna waataAAna....are they doing this .
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2015, 04:56:59 am »

Walaikum As-salam.

There are so many ahadith and subsequent fatwas that clash with the most important principles of the Noble Quran that if we sit down to count those ahadith, we will be counting all our lives.  That hadith about 73 sects has been going around among traditionalists (much to the amusement of the enemies of Islam) like hot cakes.  It's unfortunate that even our scholars cannot see its flaws.  First, the Prophet (pbuh) did not know the future.  No Prophets knew the future.  Only Allah knows it.  The Noble Quran contains many prophecies, but all those prophecies are from Allah Almighty.  There is not a single Verse in the Quran where Allah quotes a prophecy from any of the Prophets.  Yet the hadith literature mentions one prophecy after another by forging the name of the Prophet (pbuh).  Sectarianism is truly hurtful.  Even the practice of adding the prefix "sunni" or "shiia" before the word "Muslim" would be a violation of the Quran.  Allah has named us "Muslims."

"He has named you Muslims of old time and in this Scripture," (22:78).

If we call ourselves "shiia Muslim" or "sunni Muslim" it means we have changed the name of our community from what was given to us by Him.  Calling oneself a sunni Muslim or shiia Muslim is ideologically not the same as calling yourself a "Muslim."  A Muslim is a person who surrenders to Allah only.   The prefixes of shiia or sunni denotes an annexation along side the Quranic commandments of surrendering to Allah alone.  It might seem a trifle to the type of mentality both sunni and shiia Muslims have acquired today, but in the Sight of Allah it is a big violation.  Not to mention, sunnis and shiias aren't the only divisions.  These have subdivisions of 4 or 5 madhabs on each side as well.  And then there is one kind of sunnism called wahabis or salafists which sprouts from ambitious politics and money.  Whenever I try to explain these issues to our Muslim brethren, they promptly label me a "deviant."

Actually the word "Muslim" in the Quran is used as a common noun .. anyone who is a firm Monotheist and surrenders his purpose of life to Allah only.  But today the word Muslim is linked with traditional rituals and the changing requirements of time.

Our related links:

Allah has named us "Muslims."

Dividing the Faith.

Follow the Religion of Abraham.

If there is one sin which is more heinous than shrik, then it is nothing but one those who form sects  ......

Polytheism (shirk) as well as total disbelief (atheism including agnosticism) are undoubtedly the biggest sins and violations and if a person dies in that state, such ones will not be eligible to forgiveness in the Hereafter.  This has been confirmed in the Quran many times.  People often ask, how do you know such and such is a disbeliever .... and that only Allah knows what lies in every person's heart.   Of course Allah knows everything. That goes without saying.  What I mean is, there are many disbelievers who proudly and unashamedly acknowledge their disbelief (be it polytheism or atheism) and their radicalism only deepens with time.   They don't bother to hide it.  About such it's not difficult to know what dwells in their hearts.  Their own words & actions intentionally exposes them.  We cannot give such people the benefit of the doubt that maybe they are being misunderstood.  Such a condition is the only thing which is even worse than sectarianism.


A prophet of ALLAH tolerating idol worship in order to avoid division


I would not say that Prophet Moses (pbuh) tolerated idol worship to avoid division.  Prophet Moses was angry with his brother, Aaron, because it was a bitter shock for him to see the Israelis drift into idolatry while he was away to get the Divine Commandments from Allah.  During Moses' absence when the people began going astray, and it was As-Samiri who misled them, Prophet Aaron apparently felt helpless and powerless.  It was a difficult situation to handle and the Israelis had worked themselves into a frenzy.  Aaron probably thought that if he argued with them, those folks would get more aggressive and that state of aggression may lead to differences within their own selves.  So he thought it's best to wait until his brother returned; and Prophet Moses understood that point immediately. 
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2015, 05:27:39 am »

Yes of course.  Sectarian is very harmful.  But shirk/disbelief is the worst.

Coming to the issue of hadith and fatwas.  The types of fatwas that have flourished under the umbrella of hadith are flabbergasting.  Two years ago a Saudi Salafist sheikh named Arifi gave a fatwa telling young girls to commit zina (in the name of temporary marriage) by selling their bodies to the invading Al Qaeda terrorists fighting America's proxy war in Syria.  This became known in the media as "sexual jihad."  This disgraceful fatwa comes from the LIE of the bad guys who narrated and compiled the deceit they call Sahih Bukhari.  Those people who scribbled & forged their violations in the palace of Muawiyah bin Abu Sufian were not "sahabas."  They were loafers.  And this kind of fatwa shouted by Arifi gets its green light from the falsehoods of Sahih Bukhari.  Read the lies from these bad boys quoted below, and then they have the audacity to use the name of our beloved Prophet (pbuh).  May they rot in Hellfire, ameen.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139: Mutah allowed during times of war:   Narrated Abdullah: "We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."

For the information of all our readers:  Please know that this disgusting hadith, like all others, is a bloody LIE.  Our beloved Prophet (pbuh) NEVER said any such stuff.

And then read another one ....

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 43:  Mutah banned by Omar bin Khatab:   Narrated 'Imran bin Husain: "The Verse of muta was revealed in Allah's Book, so we performed it with Allah's Apostle, and nothing was revealed in Qur'an to make it illegal, nor did the Prophet prohibit it till he died. But the man (omar) just expressed what his own mind suggested."

What would you make of this?   It reflects 3 lies:
1) Contradicting the Noble Quran.
2) Slandering the exemplary character of the Prophet (pbuh) and
3) Hate-mongering against the 2nd righteous Caliph, Omar bin Khattab. 

This bugger, Imran bin Husain, whoever he was, claims that the Quran does not make temporary marriage illegal.  He says that a verse about mutah was revealed in the Quran ?? What ????  Where does the Quran mention or even hint upon the option of marriage being a temporary bond?   Would the outstanding character of our great Prophet and Final Messenger ever allow something as lowly as this to happen??  NEVER!  Anyone who calls these ahadith "sahih" are the enemies of Allah and the enemies of the Prophet (pbuh) who do not mind speaking wholesale lies about Allah's Final Message and maligning the final Messenger for the sake of defending the deception of Bukhari & co. 

The other point which is easy to note, apparently this lie was forged by someone who did not like Omar bin Khattab; and almost all hadith babblers would obviously hate Omar.  It's a known fact that Omar (the 2nd righteous Caliph) was absolutely against the practice of writing hadith.  Reportedly, according to various data of Islamic history, Omar had warned Abu Huraira to stop this nonsense of narrating hadith.  Another report also says that once Omar lost his temper and gave abu Huraira a beating for his incessant gossip mongering in the name of hadith.   I hope this was true.  How I would love to see abu Huraira getting a beating!  Abu Huraira reportedly got scared and stopped this crime of writing hadith during Caliph Omar's lifetime.  But after the tragic assassination of Omar, that shaitaan Huraira, again resumed his bad old habit.  During the era of Muawiyah, abu Huraira & co. had a ball of a time forging one hadith after another.

You can imagine how much the Islamophobes would love to read and hear of such utter falsehoods in the name of hadiths and fatwas so they can zealously continue to lambaste Muslims.   If you go to sites like answering Islam or ffi and tell them Hadiths are lies, they will roll up their sleeves to fight with you endlessly to defend hadith as "true."  That's because these hadiths and fatwas are the 'bread n butter' of their Islamophobic campaign involving the vilification of Islam. 
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2015, 06:28:16 am »

Walaikum As-salam.

....

If there is one sin which is more heinous than shrik, then it is nothing but one those who form sects  ......

Polytheism (shirk) as well as total disbelief (atheism including agnosticism) are undoubtedly the biggest sins and violations and if a person dies in that state, such ones will not be eligible to forgiveness in the Hereafter.  This has been confirmed in the Quran many times.  People often ask, how do you know such and such is a disbeliever .... and that only Allah knows what lies in every person's heart.   Of course Allah knows everything. That goes without saying.  What I mean is, there are many disbelievers who proudly and unashamedly acknowledge their disbelief (be it polytheism or atheism) and their radicalism only deepens with time.   They don't bother to hide it.  About such it's not difficult to know what dwells in their hearts.  Their own words & actions intentionally exposes them.  We cannot give such people the benefit of the doubt that maybe they are being misunderstood.  Such a condition is the only thing which is even worse than sectarianism.


A prophet of ALLAH tolerating idol worship in order to avoid division


I would not say that Prophet Moses (pbuh) tolerated idol worship to avoid division.  Prophet Moses was angry with his brother, Aaron, because it was a bitter shock for him to see the Israelis drift into idolatry while he was away to get the Divine Commandments from Allah.  During Moses' absence when the people began going astray, and it was As-Samiri who misled them, Prophet Aaron apparently felt helpless and powerless.  It was a difficult situation to handle and the Israelis had worked themselves into a frenzy.  Aaron probably thought that if he argued with them, those folks would get more aggressive and that state of aggression may lead to differences within their own selves.  So he thought it's best to wait until his brother returned; and Prophet Moses understood that point immediately. 

I think you have missed out the verse
this verse was the replay given to prophet moses (pbuh) by his borther Harun(pbuh)
i wil post the entire conversetion
Surah: 20   Aya: 92
[Moses] said, "O Aaron, what prevented you, when you saw them going astray,
Surah: 20   Aya: 93
From following me? Then have you disobeyed my order?"
Surah: 20   Aya: 94
[Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, do not seize [me] by my beard or by my head. Indeed, I feared that you would say, 'You caused division among the Children of Israel, and you did not observe [or await] my word.' "

So by "prophet" i mean Harun alaisalam here not musa alaissalam
hope i have cleared your doubt
so my anology is correct



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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2015, 06:58:47 am »


So by "prophet" i mean Harun alaisalam here not musa alaissalam


Oh, okay  .... I see that point.  Thanks for the clarification.

However, polytheism / disbelief is undoubtedly the worst of sins .. if the person dies in that state. 


Actually if you read the preceding two Verses of this Surah, it explains more. 

"And Aaron indeed had told them beforehand: O my people! Ye are but being seduced therewith, for lo! your Rab is the Beneficent, so follow me and obey my order."  20:90.

"They said: We shall by no means cease to be its votaries till Moses return unto us."  20:91.


So, Prophet Haroon had already warned them that they were being misguided, but the people refused to listen to him and said that they would continue to worship the idol until Prophet Moses returned.  I think this was their excuse to buy more time and remain on the path of misguidance.  When Prophet Moses returned, he ordered the idol to be destroyed (ref. Verse 20:97). 
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2015, 02:33:39 pm »

.

Coming to the issue of hadith and fatwas.  The types of fatwas that have flourished under the umbrella of hadith are flabbergasting.  Two years ago a Saudi Salafist sheikh named Arifi gave a fatwa telling young girls to commit zina (in the name of temporary marriage) by selling their bodies to the invading Al Qaeda terrorists fighting America's proxy war in Syria.  This became known in the media as "sexual jihad."  This disgraceful fatwa comes from the LIE of the bad guys who narrated and compiled the deceit they call Sahih Bukhari.  Those people who scribbled & forged their violations in the palace of Muawiyah bin Abu Sufian were not "sahabas."  They were loafers.  And this kind of fatwa shouted by Arifi gets its green light from the falsehoods of Sahih Bukhari.  Read the lies from these bad boys quoted below, and then they have the audacity to use the name of our beloved Prophet (pbuh).  May they rot in Hellfire, ameen.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139: Mutah allowed during times of war:   Narrated Abdullah: "We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."

For the information of all our readers:  Please know that this disgusting hadith, like all others, is a bloody LIE.  Our beloved Prophet (pbuh) NEVER said any such stuff.

And then read another one ....

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 43:  Mutah banned by Omar bin Khatab:   Narrated 'Imran bin Husain: "The Verse of muta was revealed in Allah's Book, so we performed it with Allah's Apostle, and nothing was revealed in Qur'an to make it illegal, nor did the Prophet prohibit it till he died. But the man (omar) just expressed what his own mind suggested."

What would you make of this?   It reflects 3 lies:
1) Contradicting the Noble Quran.
2) Slandering the exemplary character of the Prophet (pbuh) and
3) Hate-mongering against the 2nd righteous Caliph, Omar bin Khattab. 

This bugger, Imran bin Husain, whoever he was, claims that the Quran does not make temporary marriage illegal.  He says that a verse about mutah was revealed in the Quran ?? What ????  Where does the Quran mention or even hint upon the option of marriage being a temporary bond?   Would the outstanding character of our great Prophet and Final Messenger ever allow something as lowly as this to happen??  NEVER!  Anyone who calls these ahadith "sahih" are the enemies of Allah and the enemies of the Prophet (pbuh) who do not mind speaking wholesale lies about Allah's Final Message and maligning the final Messenger for the sake of defending the deception of Bukhari & co. 

The other point which is easy to note, apparently this lie was forged by someone who did not like Omar bin Khattab; and almost all hadith babblers would obviously hate Omar.  It's a known fact that Omar (the 2nd righteous Caliph) was absolutely against the practice of writing hadith.  Reportedly, according to various data of Islamic history, Omar had warned Abu Huraira to stop this nonsense of narrating hadith.  Another report also says that once Omar lost his temper and gave abu Huraira a beating for his incessant gossip mongering in the name of hadith.   I hope this was true.  How I would love to see abu Huraira getting a beating!  Abu Huraira reportedly got scared and stopped this crime of writing hadith during Caliph Omar's lifetime.  But after the tragic assassination of Omar, that shaitaan Huraira, again resumed his bad old habit.  During the era of Muawiyah, abu Huraira & co. had a ball of a time forging one hadith after another.

You can imagine how much the Islamophobes would love to read and hear of such utter falsehoods in the name of hadiths and fatwas so they can zealously continue to lambaste Muslims.   If you go to sites like answering Islam or ffi and tell them Hadiths are lies, they will roll up their sleeves to fight with you endlessly to defend hadith as "true."  That's because these hadiths and fatwas are the 'bread n butter' of their Islamophobic campaign involving the vilification of Islam. 
there is lot of un warranted stuff in ahadith
these things are men made and i believe they are adultrated by time
the only verse i remember after reading your post is
Surah: 7   Aya: 28
And when they commit an immorality, they say, "We found our fathers doing it, and Allah has ordered us to do it." Say, "Indeed, Allah does not order immorality. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?"


So better to throw them into the bin

Yes of course.  Sectarian is very harmful.  But shirk/disbelief is the worst.

Oh, okay  .... I see that point.  Thanks for the clarification.

However, polytheism / disbelief is undoubtedly the worst of sins .. if the person dies in that state. 


Actually if you read the preceding two Verses of this Surah, it explains more. 

"And Aaron indeed had told them beforehand: O my people! Ye are but being seduced therewith, for lo! your Rab is the Beneficent, so follow me and obey my order."  20:90.

"They said: We shall by no means cease to be its votaries till Moses return unto us."  20:91.


So, Prophet Haroon had already warned them that they were being misguided, but the people refused to listen to him and said that they would continue to worship the idol until Prophet Moses returned.  I think this was their excuse to buy more time and remain on the path of misguidance.  When Prophet Moses returned, he ordered the idol to be destroyed (ref. Verse 20:97). 

yes, you people are correct
there is no sin greater than shrik
Thanks for posting the verses TS
Note that Harun Alaissalam warned those people but never divided them into sects
he could have easily formed his own group and fought samiri against idol workship
but he waited Musa alaissalam to come
this is what he was telling to his brother in the verse
Surah: 20   Aya: 94
[Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, do not seize [me] by my beard or by my head. Indeed, I feared that you would say, 'You caused division among the Children of Israel, and you did not observe [or await] my word.' "

so even in the case of worst sin sectarianism is not allowed .
dont forget he was a prophet and this was the sunnah of quran
now tell me what you derive from this



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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2015, 07:22:21 pm »


Note that Harun Alaissalam warned those people but never divided them into sects .. he could have easily formed his own group and fought samiri against idol workship ... but he waited Musa alaissalam to come this is what he was telling to his brother in the verse Surah: 20   Aya: 94
[Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, do not seize [me] by my beard or by my head. Indeed, I feared that you would say, 'You caused division among the Children of Israel, and you did not observe [or await] my word.' "

so even in the case of worst sin sectarianism is not allowed .
dont forget he was a prophet and this was the sunnah of quran
now tell me what you derive from this


Yes, Prophet Haroon (pbuh) took the wise step of waiting for his brother to come because he knew his brother would immediately handle the matter and trash the idol, which he did.  Alhumdulilah.  Though both Moses and Haroon were Prophets, apparently Prophet Moses (pbuh) was the senior of the two and had greater influence on the people.  Haroon  possibly (and rightly) felt his brother could steer & control the situation to overcome the problem more effectively than himself; and probably it was not too easy for Haroon, in the absence of his brother Moses, to form his own group to fight As-Samiri.  We don't know the precise details of the situation but it's very likely that Haroon sensed that without the presence of his brother, it would be difficult for him to gather the support of the Israelis required to guide the entire lot.  For that reason he wisely decided to wait.  Thus, on account of the existing situation, Prophet Haroon symbolized patience and perseverance on the face of the most heinous sin of idolatry.  This is the way I would put it and that's what I derive from it.  In my opinion, it would not be right nor does it sound okay to say that Prophet Haroon "tolerated shirk" against sectarianism.  This could convey a wrong impression to inexperienced readers that one might be trying to downplay the transgression of shirk which is indeed the biggest spiritual & ethical violation.  Neither of the two Prophets, Moses nor Aaron, "tolerated shirk."  No Prophet ever did.  Rather, all of them were perfect examples of forbearance until The Almighty granted them success.   

By stating that no Prophet tolerated shirk, I'm not alluding to violence.  I'm alluding to total rejection.  Fighting against the rebels of shirk is permitted to Muslims in self-defense.

Furthermore, the context Verses 20:90-97 isn't exactly identical to the kind of sectarianism we Muslims are caught up in at present, which is apparently the context of your title.  I think  I don't need to explain any details enumerating the differences.
   
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 07:55:20 pm »

Btw, brother Pervez Mustaq, I've slightly edited the title codes of the original post to make it more search & Google friendly as many of our guests come through search engines, and also frequently use the search option of our forum.

My apology for that.
 
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2015, 08:19:22 pm »

  Though both Moses and Haroon were Prophets, apparently Prophet Moses (pbuh) was the senior of the two and had greater influence on the people.    

Right, this is what I understand too from the Quranic narrations on this subject. By the permission of Allah Almighty, Prophet Haroon was attached to his brother Prophet Musa on the latter's request as his helper.  Therefore I don't think the Divine Power had granted the authority to Prophet Haroon to make major decisions on his own without consulting his brother or without the approval of his brother.  Only Allah would know the actual facts, but your perception makes sense Sister Heba.
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 08:30:40 pm »



Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 43:  Mutah banned by Omar bin Khatab:   Narrated 'Imran bin Husain: "The Verse of muta was revealed in Allah's Book, so we performed it with Allah's Apostle, and nothing was revealed in Qur'an to make it illegal, nor did the Prophet prohibit it till he died. But the man (omar) just expressed what his own mind suggested."


This is absolutely shocking!  Ahadith has no qualms clashing its values with the Quran which is bad enough, and here it's literally lying against the Quran.

Your grasp of hadith manipulation is spot on.  And I applaud your frankness.  That's the biggest problem with the Ummah today.  If a Westerner for example said such things, there would be an upheaval in our Muslim world and quite rightly so.  But when these so-called imams and sheikhs utter in writing such horrible falsehoods, then the Muslims remain silent instead to ostracizing these audacious phoneys. 

That insinuation on slander of Omar bin Khattab is an attempt to portray that he didn't mind changing the the Prophet's (pbuh) decision.  First that hadith insults the Quran, then it insults the Prophet's (pbuh) character, and then tries to make Omar look like a rebel for rejecting zina.  These munafiqs seem to draw no red lines for their boundaries. 


I hope this was true.  How I would love to see abu Huraira getting a beating!
 

 Grin    Count me as one of the cheerleaders too .......  Cheesy
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2015, 02:16:35 pm »

Yes, Prophet Haroon (pbuh) took the wise step of waiting for his brother to come because he knew his brother would immediately handle the matter and trash the idol, which he did.  Alhumdulilah.  Though both Moses and Haroon were Prophets, apparently Prophet Moses (pbuh) was the senior of the two and had greater influence on the people.  Haroon  possibly (and rightly) felt his brother could steer & control the situation to overcome the problem more effectively than himself; and probably it was not too easy for Haroon, in the absence of his brother Moses, to form his own group to fight As-Samiri.  We don't know the precise details of the situation but it's very likely that Haroon sensed that without the presence of his brother, it would be difficult for him to gather the support of the Israelis required to guide the entire lot.  For that reason he wisely decided to wait.  Thus, on account of the existing situation, Prophet Haroon symbolized patience and perseverance on the face of the most heinous sin of idolatry.  This is the way I would put it and that's what I derive from it.    

 I think you have missed out two most important things Sr Heba
Firstly, we are dealing with quran
Second, Haroon (pbuh) was a prophet
This whole incident is being reported by ALLAH subhanavatala, the knower of scrects, nothing is hidden from him
The basic character of a prophet is, he will never lie, he will never manipulate and he will never fear anything except ALLAH subhanavatala
When Haroon alaisalam is saying that he don’t want to make firqa among bani Israel means he meant the every word he says
No internal meaning, no manipulation, no lie
If he had lied, then ALLAH subhanavatala might had told us about his intentions
Don’t forget that ALLAH subhanavatala already informed Musa alausalam about samiri
Surah: 20   Aya: 85
[ Allah ] said, "But indeed, We have tried your people after you [departed], and the Samiri has led them astray

Further, the situation was that, they just came out after defeating the mighty firoun and samiri must have been a salve of bani Israel
So doubting the courage of Haroon alaisalam is wrong
As far as gaining support of bani Israel is concerned, as a prophet of ALLAH subhanavatala, he could have fought against samiri & co all alone
But he did nothing but waited for his Amir to come without making factions among bani Israel
So every word from the quran we have to take as it is and we can make our own inputs
moreover this ayah is muhkamat(clear ayah: refer verse 3:7)


In my opinion, it would not be right nor does it sound okay to say that Prophet Haroon "tolerated shirk" against sectarianism.  This could convey a wrong impression to inexperienced readers that one might be trying to downplay the transgression of shirk which is indeed the biggest spiritual & ethical violation.  Neither of the two Prophets, Moses nor Aaron, "tolerated shirk."  No Prophet ever did.  Rather, all of them were perfect examples of forbearance until The Almighty granted them success.   


I am in forties, in my whole life span  I never heard that a single Muslim died fighting against shrik but billions of Muslims died and still getting killed because of sectarianism
 see the magnitude and multitude of the problem
If we had prevented the first split of ummah then there might have been no killings in the name of sects as on today
Don’t forget that shia and sunni had same aqedha in the initial stages .they differed only upon the support but as the time dragged by, importance was given to hadiths and hadiths were made to suit the supports of their sects
See the magnitude of the problem
That is why Quran was very harsh against sectarianism
As per the fatwa of Quran , one who form sects he is not among the ummah of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)
Can any one of the ummah can imagine worst thing than this .

As far as inexperienced reader is concerned , i think we don’t have to worry about them , It is ALLAH subhanavatala who gives guidance to whomever he wills
For example, Abu lahab was hearing the Quran right form the mouth of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)
Did he become the Muslim?
Surah: 28   Aya: 56
Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.

Our job is to explore the truth
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2015, 02:20:43 pm »

Btw, brother Pervez Mustaq, I've slightly edited the title codes of the original post to make it more search & Google friendly as many of our guests come through search engines, and also frequently use the search option of our forum.

My apology for that.
 
Thank you Sr
Don’t hesitate to give your suggestions in order to improve my writing
I am always open for learning
But the …. (Dots) are missing .I made it as my style in the headings of my articles ,lol
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2015, 05:30:34 am »

As-salam Alaikum brother Mushtaq.  One thing for sure, you'll find me brutally honest.  It seems  you're trying to unnecessarily argue probably to vent some fury because you were stopped in the previous post from touting extra-Quranic stuff.   But we honestly neither have the time nor the inclination for your kind of tantrums here. Not to mention, your comments are again out of context that do not at all conform with everything I stated.  I will define that in a moment.

Your knowledge about the Quran does not seem anything spectacular. Well, I too don't have detailed knowledge of a lot of Quranic narrations, no one does except Allah.  For that reason I make it clear that my opinion is only a possibility or an apparent possibility ... not sweeping assertions with the amount of confidence you pump into your statements.



The basic character of a prophet is, he will never lie,
he will never manipulate and he will never fear anything except ALLAH subhanavatala.....If he had lied, then ALLAH subhanavatala might had told us about his intentions

Did i ever say anything otherwise to make you presume that I meant Prophets lie or manipulate or fear anyone other than Allah, The Highest ????   Then why waste time on standard facts which I learned and got them embedded in my soul long ago?


So doubting the courage of Haroon alaisalam is wrong

When did I doubt his courage?  Ha?  when??  These insinuations are very impertinent and offensive on your part.  It seems that you are the one creating firqas  by acquiring a needlessly accusatory stance.
 


As far as gaining support of bani Israel is concerned, as a prophet of ALLAH subhanavatala, he could have fought against samiri & co all alone

Here's what I wrote:


"Haroon  possibly (and rightly) felt his brother could steer & control the situation to overcome the problem more effectively than himself; and probably it was not too easy for Haroon, in the absence of his brother Moses, to form his own group to fight As-Samiri.
We don't know the precise details of the situation but it's very likely that ......."

Hence everything I've mentioned above are likelihoods.  Only Allah knows the exact specifics, trivialities and characteristics of the entire episode of the Exodus.  How do you know Prophet Haroon could have fought Samiri & co. all alone?  Who gives you the authority to presume that with so much confidence as you express?   Allah helps the wise and thoughtful, not the rash and hasty.  There must have been some wisdom behind Haroon's decision to wait for his brother.  My opinion is, as I already mentioned, patience and taqwa.  And Allah knows best.  Somehow you never yet thought of perseverance/taqwa, one of the most outstanding qualities of all Prophets as elucidated in the Noble Quran many times.  Prophet Haroon told his brother that he didn't take any steps because he was afraid to creative divisions within the Israelis.  And you henceforth  jump to the conclusion that shirk is better than creating divisions.  Please don't waste our time with such unnecessary guessworks.



When Haroon alaisalam is saying that he don’t want to make firqa among bani Israel means he meant the every word he says


Yes of course he did.   Did I say anywhere that Prophet Haroon didn't mean what he said?  Then why are you quarreling by picking your own words and attributing them to me?


So every word from the quran we have to take as it is and we can make our own inputs

I repeat, if we make our own "inputs" we must remember to present them only as an opinion.  Except Allah, none has the authority to confirm it.  Frankly I don't know what your opinion is except a combative approach.  You have said nothing extraordinary nor anything new which anyone couldn't have already known at school level.


I am in forties, in my whole life span  I never heard that a single Muslim died fighting against shrik but billions of Muslims died and still getting killed because of sectarianism .. and still getting killed because of sectarianism

Well, hundreds if not thousands of believers were martyred in the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh) in Medinah and its outskirts by the kuffar during the process when Islam was being spread.  Thousands of Muslims periodically get killed in India in communal riots at the hands of kuffar.  Almost quarter of a million Muslims have recently been slaughtered and many more displaced and raped in Burma only on grounds of their Faith by the kuffar majority of that land.  This has been declared a genocide by at least 8 nobel laureates and the genocide is ongoing.  Last year several thousands of Muslims were butchered in CAR by hardline Christians only for being Muslims.  Remember the Balkan war from the mid to late 90s?  Two million Muslims were killed by Serbs only on account of their Faith and 80,000 Muslim women dishonored.  If I get into history, from medieval to modern, I could go on and on.   Most Muslims throughout the annals of history who have died at the hands of the kuffar were slaughtered without any provocations.  They died while peacefully living their lives.   And you say you never heard of Muslims dying fighting shirk until your forties?  You sure have wasted many of your years of your life in ignorance brother.


Don’t forget that shia and sunni had same aqedha in the initial stages


O really?  How brilliant.  As if we never knew that, ha?





As far as inexperienced reader is concerned , i think we don’t have to worry about them

Your approach has again misfired and this time you are trying to give leverage to your words by misinterpreting V.28:56.

First of all, we construct the rules to make our readings user-friendly.  Therefore we decide about whom we need to be concerned, not you.


Secondly, by inexperienced  reader we mean folks with good intent who are truly trying to understand the Monotheistic Faith.  The kind of statements you are making, juggling between shirk and sectarianism, can definitely be confusing  to newcomers in the Monotheistic Faith regarding their priorities.  We certainly do need  to worry about them because it's our responsibility at MV to try to simplify the priorities of the Quran for them as best as we can.  This is basically a read-only forum.  Most of our guests come to read, not interact and certainly not to argue for the sake of it like yourself.  Referring Verse 28:56, we are not trying to guide anyone.  That's why we've kept this a read-only forum.  We just present the facts to the best of our perception and effort, and the rest is up to the ones who read our works.  In fact you are the one who needs to grasp the Message V.28:56 and stop wasting your time talking to the kuffar at ffi.




Our job is to explore the truth

MV's job is to explore the truth for sure.   Only Allah knows best about your job.

Our time is precious and we aren't inclined to meddle in the kind of wrangling you attempt to set off.   Many thanks for nothing on that.


LET ME REITERATE.  SHIRK IS THE BIGGEST OFFENSE IN THE SIGHT OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY AND IT'S THE ONLY SPIRITUAL CRIME WHICH WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN IF A PERSON DIES IN THAT STATE.  I SAY THIS BECAUSE ALLAH CONFIRMED IT TO ALL HIS BELIEVING SLAVES.  SECTARIANISM IS VERY BAD BUT WE CANNOT SAY THAT IT IS AN UNFORGIVABLE SIN ON THE SAME PLATFORM AS SHIRK BECAUSE THE QURAN PLACES ONLY SHIRK IN THE UNFORGIVABLE CATEGORY.  NO MORE ARGUMENTS ON THIS ISSUE.
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2015, 06:05:36 am »

Many thanks Sister Heba.  I know how busy you are and I'm particularly grateful to you for giving so much time to this one.  Your articulation and insight are admirably.  I don't know why or how Br. Pervez Mushtaq is unable to perceive. 


Brother Pervez Mushtaq, we are not comfortable with some of your basic views, your priorities and your attitude.  Consequently you are disrupting the harmony and tranquility of our forum with an unwarranted combative standpoint. 


I am not here to promote hadiths or any other warfare

MV Guestbook - Intro member Pervez Mushtaq


You misled us in your intro as you tried to take up both in your own ways. 

You can read our posts as a guest if you so wish.  I am revoking your membership. 

As-salaam Alaikum wr br.
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2015, 06:25:31 am »

You're more than welcomed dear Sister Zeynab.   Allah bless.
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