Guests wanting to sign-up as members MUST first introduce themselves in detail at our Guestbook otherwise their registrations will be DELETED. Approval of members is at the discretion of the team. MV is a place for humble learning through mutual consultation, not for narcissists nor belligerent disputants. We simply stand for what is compatible with the Quran regardless of titles such as "traditionalism" or "modernism."
Muslim Villa
December 16, 2017, 03:19:18 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Verse 2:54 - When Moses returned and saw his people worshiping calf


+-
Shoutbox
November 09, 2017, 04:26:36 am Heba E. Husseyn: Please pray for Rohingya children. As genocide in Buddhist Burma continues, many Rohingya children arriving in Bangladesh camps don't know where their parents are. May the Burmese murderer-terrorist Su Kyi rot in Hell.
June 21, 2017, 07:42:01 am Zeynab: Shukran sis Heba.  Allah Bless. Ameen.
June 21, 2017, 07:39:56 am Heba E. Husseyn: Leialtul Qadr Mubarak.  For details on Leilatul Qadr please read MV post Leila-tul-Qadr
May 04, 2017, 05:35:01 am N. Truth Seeker: Alhumdulilah, Alhumdulilah.  Still 22 days left.  InshAllah we can thank Allah for granting us the opportunity to experience another of this blessed month for the betterment of our souls.  Thanks for mentioning Sister.
May 04, 2017, 05:20:37 am Ruhi_Rose: I can hardly keep track with the speed at which time flies.  Ramadan 2017 only 22 days away!
September 12, 2016, 03:17:09 am N. Truth Seeker: Wa salam sisters. So kind of u to remember. Alhumdulilah that Allah gave us another chance to live thru the blessed month of Zil Hajj.  Was a busy time for all of my family.
September 11, 2016, 08:26:43 am Zeynab: Wa'salaam my dear Sis Heba Smiley  Yes, Alhumdulilah, the 10 days of this blessed month went well by the Grace & Mercy of Allah. I wish the same for all.
September 11, 2016, 02:20:02 am Heba E. Husseyn: Salam my dear MV team and other sis and bros.  I pray the first 10 days of the bless month of Zil Hajj has passed well for all.  Hajj culminates in about 2 days. InshAllah.
View Shout History
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Verse 2:54 - When Moses returned and saw his people worshiping calf  (Read 49 times)
Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2764



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« on: November 03, 2016, 11:29:50 am »

 BismEm


As-Salam Alaykum dear everyone!   Smiley


Would like your opinion on Verse 2:54 (Surah Al-Baqrah).  When Prophet Moses (pbuh) returned with the Divine Commandments, he found his people had turned back to idolatry and began worshiping the calf they made themselves.  That made Prophet Moses very angry.  This is mentioned in Verse 2:54.  Below I'm quoting the translations of this Verse from different translators, and I'm would like your feedback on the underlined portion.

Translation Corpus Quran word by word
And when said Moses to his people, O my people!  Indeed, you (you) have wronged yourselves by your taking the calf.  So turn in repentance to your Creator, and kill yourselves.  (2:54).

Standard Universal Translation (or Sahih International)
And [recall] when Moses said to his people, "O my people, indeed you have wronged yourselves by your taking of the calf [for worship]. So repent to your Creator and kill yourselves.   (2:54).

Translation Abdel Haleem
Moses said to his people, ‘My people, you have wronged yourselves by worshipping the calf, so repent to your Maker and kill (the guilty among) you.  (2:54).

Translation Pickthall
And when Moses said unto his people: O my people! Ye have wronged yourselves by your choosing of the calf (for worship) so turn in penitence to your Creator, and kill (the guilty) yourselves.  (2:54).


Translation Maududi
(2:54) Remember that when Moses (returned with the Divine Gift, he) said to his people, "O my people, you have wronged yourselves grievously by taking the calf for worship. Therefore, turn to your Creator in penitence and slay the guilty ones among you.


As you can see, in the original Arabic which is translated by Corpus Quran (taking the original word by word), it writes "and kill yourselves" and nothing in brackets of their own  explanation.  The same in the standard universal translation.  Pickthall and Haleem also translate the same but they put in their own explanation in brackets mentioning "and kill (the guilty) yourselves."  But I've read certain other translations where they translate as "and kill your egos."

Which one would you perceive as correct?
Report Spam   Logged

Social Buttons

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1888



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2016, 12:28:54 pm »

Walaykum Salam Sister Ruhi.  Personally to me, the translation "and kill your egos" sounds correct and most plausible.  As in every case, the final explanation is only up to Allah.  But let us try to reflect upon it by using our common sense and perception. 

The original only says "and kill yourselves."  But we can be absolutely sure that this is not meant to be taken literally tht the people should kill themselves.  There are many Verses in the Quran that are abbreviated in similar manner which have often been explained by translators by putting words in brackets.

To kill the guilty as elucidated in the translations of Pickthall and Haleem also does not sound like an accurate explanation because there is no mention nor any references/hints of punishments by death for the people, neither in V.2:54 nor in any of the following Verses.  The same incident is also described in greater details in Surah 20 (Ta Ha) from Verses 83 to 98.  If you read these Verses you will find that Prophet Moses, who became very upset and annoyed seeing the misguidance of his people, asked his brother Aaron (Harun) how it happened during his absence.  Of course Aaron had tried to stop them but they didn't obey him (Ref.V.20:90).  Moses also questioned As-Samiri, one of the persons among the crowd during the Exodus who was actually the man responsible for leading the crowd astray.  Allah Almighty had already warned Prophet Moses about this man earlier in V.20:85.  Moses immediately ordered them to destroy the calf they had made with their ornaments (ref.V.20:97).  And we can definitely assume that the calf was burned and thrown into the sea in accordance with the instruction of Prophet Moses followed by his reiteration that they must worship ONLY ONE GOD, THAT IS, ALLAH. 

There is no mention nor any allusions of anyone killed as a punishment.

Thus, most likely, rather quite obviously to me, what that sentence in V.2:54 means is to kill the misguided ego within oneself that tempts a person into unrighteousness and disobedience towards Allah Almighty. 

Btw, I do not agree with Maududi's work which he translates as "slay the guilty ones among you."  The term "guilty" is not mentioned in the original Arabic.  So, it was grossly wrong of him to mention that.  I don't know how he could write that as translators are definitely NOT entitled to mention any word not in the original outside brackets.
Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2764



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2016, 12:54:44 pm »

Thanks a million brother for your very, very helpful and sensible elucidation.  I absolutely agree with your rational analysis. 

Also thanks for pointing out that bit about Maududi's translation.  I had observed it too but somehow forgot to highlight that aspect in my post.  Indeed that translation should not be retained.
Report Spam   Logged

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1888



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2016, 12:57:28 pm »

You're very welcomed sister.
Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1888



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2016, 03:58:03 am »

Also let me mention, 'and kill your egos' is a paraphrase.  The translation must be put correctly as per the rules, that is, "and kill (your egos) yourselves."  (2:54)
Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3369



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2016, 04:31:59 am »

MashAllah, this was a thoroughly fruitful read for me.  Yesterday I shared it with my husband as well.  He too found it really worthwhile.  Additionally he suggested which I would like to share here .. instead of 'ego' it may also refer to (paraphrasing) killing the evil within yourselves, as evil leads to weaker taqwa or will-power and consequently to misguidance and disobedience.  Evil also often leads to egoism.  And if one wants to get rid of the evil within themselves, they will have to fight it themselves.  Advise and lectures from others won't help if the individual themselves aren't willing to rid their minds & hearts of the evil that's a barrier between themselves and righteousness.

Many thanks for bringing up this Verse for discussion, Sister Ruhi.  Before the paranoid combatants start misconstruing it, they must analyze it rationally as here.  And tons of thanks brother TS for such a helpful elucidation.
   
Report Spam   Logged

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1888



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2016, 04:40:00 am »

Thank you too sister Heba.  I'm so happy both you and your husband found it useful.  Allah bless.
Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2764



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2016, 04:55:53 am »

Thanks again for the additional input, brother and sister.  That makes it still more clear.
Report Spam   Logged

Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4302



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2016, 05:06:57 am »

JazekAllah khair.  This was hugely helpful for me too.  You're so right brother, there are many Quranic sentences within the various Ayats which are abbreviated in an obvious manner that should not be difficult for readers to comprehend and to grasp the actual substance conveyed by The Almighty.  The interpretations of translators in brackets play an important role in for readers.  Many a times their explanations in brackets are quite extensively influenced by the hadith.  That expression "the guilty" in brackets coming from many translators is definitely a reflection of the Hadith mindset coming down from the altered Bibles.  For sure, it's not Quranic instruction nor does it conform with Quranic Values and neither is it supported by the Quranic narration of this event as analyzed by brother TS.
Report Spam   Logged

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1888



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2016, 05:08:57 am »

Very correct Sister Zeynab.  You're welcomed.
Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Scammers & spammers will be reported | © If you borrow MV contents you must mention our link with hypertext | MV Team is not responsible for comments by members or guests | To make browsing faster at MV, install and enable AdBlock.
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum

Buy traffic for your forum/website
traffic-masters
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines