Guests wanting to sign-up as members MUST first introduce themselves in detail at Zainab's Lounge, accessible from Muslim Villa's Guestbook Board (top sticky post titled "Zainab's Lounge"). Approval of members is at the discretion of the MV Team. You have arrived at a place of serious learning through mutual consultation of MV Team where we have zero tolerance for trouble-makers, narcissists and needless disputants. We simply stand for what is compatible with the Sublime Quran regardless of titles such as "traditionalism" or "modernism."
Muslim Villa
September 26, 2018, 06:19:32 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Does the Quran allow the Prophet (pbuh) to have more than 4 wives?


+-
Shoutbox
September 14, 2018, 12:33:22 am Ruhi_Rose: Yes br. TS, that's a very important article to read.
September 14, 2018, 12:08:22 am N. Truth Seeker: Thank u.  Allah bless u for remembering, sister.   Also reminding our guests to read: The traditional declaration of fasting on the 10th of Muharram .... the real story behind it. Same article in the blog too.
September 13, 2018, 11:09:22 pm Zeynab: Muharram 1440 A.H.
Please read why our Islamic new year is full of tragic memories.
June 08, 2018, 08:49:28 pm Heba E. Husseyn: Leilatul Qadr 1439 (2018) on June 8. To learn about this great Night, read our posts on Leilatul Qadr @ this thread.
May 16, 2018, 04:03:41 am Ruhi_Rose: Ramadan Mubarak to u too brother and to everyone.  May Allah accept our efforts.  Ameen.
May 16, 2018, 04:01:41 am N. Truth Seeker: Ramadan 2018 Mubarak to all.  Just finished sahoor, getting ready for Fajr.  Alhumdulilah.
November 09, 2017, 04:26:36 am Heba E. Husseyn: Please pray for Rohingya children. As genocide in Buddhist Burma continues, many Rohingya children arriving in Bangladesh camps don't know where their parents are. May the Burmese murderer-terrorist Su Kyi rot in Hell.
June 21, 2017, 07:42:01 am Zeynab: Shukran sis Heba.  Allah Bless. Ameen.
View Shout History
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Does the Quran allow the Prophet (pbuh) to have more than 4 wives?  (Read 300 times)
Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3497



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« on: December 16, 2017, 11:54:15 pm »

BismAllah Ar Rehman Ar Raheem.

Salams and peace to all ....


Why do traditionalists presume Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was allowed to marry more than 4 wives as a special concession?

Unfortunately this is another one of those myths which does not stand in accordance with Quranic information.  Yet it has gotten firmly embedded in the minds of our traditional so-called scholars and commentators who have written paragraphs after paragraphs on this guesswork.

The disinformation starts by misinterpreting Verse 33:50 (Surah Al-Ahzab) and then the stories go on and on in different directions, all taken from the Hadith literature.

Quoting Verse 33:50 as follows:

"O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful."  (33:50)  Surah Al-Ahzab.

Let us carefully try to understand the above Verse to avoid the usual misunderstandings and thus the Hadithist misinterpretations and its accompanying gossips further blown out of all proportion by the Islamophobes who refuse to know the huge difference between the Quran and Hadith.

Focusing on Verse 33:50, the permissibility concerning marriage pertains to payment of dowry in relation to the Prophet, not limitless number of wives.  The first portion of the Verse refers to the existing wives of the Prophet (pbuh) to whom he had given their dowries and thus they were lawful for him.   Secondly, the slave-women were lawful.  Generally there was no dowry required for slaves whose financial needs were entirely the responsibility of the person who owned them.  Thirdly, the Verse explicitly mentions those women within the extended family who are lawful for marriage.    Lastly it mentions of a woman, who (if) of her own free will decided to propose marriage to the Prophet and (if) the Prophet accepted the proposal.  It is concerning this aspect that the Verse states it's "only for you" (that is, the Prophet).  As you read further, the Verse also states "We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, in order that there will be upon you no discomfort."  This signifies  the obligation of dowry for other men (be it big or small) but not for the Prophet in this specific situation.  In other words, on account of the circumstances that prevailed during migration of the new Muslims from Mecca to Medinah, the responsibility of dowry was waived for the Prophet only pertaining a certain category of marriage.   To put it plainly, it was a trust God Almighty placed upon the Prophet, not on all men so that it didn't become a cultural practice nor could other men be trusted with this responsibility in the Sight of God Almighty.  It had a 2-way beneficial purpose.  Financially, it was a tough period for the Prophet (pbuh) who had abandoned his home, much of his assets and source of income in Mecca.  In some cases, women migrating from Mecca to Medinah who lately embraced Islam were alone with no family and no protection.  If any such woman willingly desired to marry the Prophet (pbuh) [even as a marriage of convenience or protection to find a dependable husband], the concession of waiving the dowry offered to the Prophet (pbuh) by the Divine Power would remove an obstacle for such a marriage, in case the Prophet's financial situation happened to be too difficult to manage a dowry.   However, there is no Quranic information nor any reports from reliable historical sources mentioning the Prophet had any such marriage where he did not provide a dowry.   Verse 33:50 simply provides a temporary financial concession.  Whether or not it was utilized is known to Allah Almighty only. 

Moreover, commentators of the Quran who are fixated on Hadith (and all of them are) and hellbent upon  misinterpreting Verse 33:50 that the Prophet was allowed unlimited number of wives, also confusedly or simply to justify the Hadith claim that Verse 33:50 was revealed after Verse 4:3 of Surah An-Nissa where the maximum number of wives is limited to four.  But if you focus only on the Quran, ignoring the distractions of traditionalists, it's much too clear to perceive that Verse 33:50 is NOT meant to influence Verse 4:3.  They are not connected.  There's no such issue in the Quran at all where one Verse maybe viewed as revising another.  This is typically a presumption of dumb readers or plain trouble-makers.   Verses 33:50 and 4:3  are simply two independent Verses stating two separate laws.

Writes translator and commentator, Muhammad Ali:  "This was the only privilege allowed to the Prophet and it is to this that the words, especially for thee, refer. What God ordained for the believers is contained in 4:3, and on the revelation of that verse any Muslim who had more than four wives had to divorce the excess number.”    First off, he has misunderstood the privilege as usual.   Secondly, the information highlighted is directly from the Hadith with no supporting evidence in the Quran whatsoever.  Quranic Laws instructed to be implemented replacing old laws exclude the past.  The Quran limited the maximum number of wives to four as asserted in Verse 4:3, but that did not make it mandatory in so many words that those who already took more than four wives in days prior to this Quranic Law must kick out some of their existing wives to bring down the number to four.  Needless to say, this is based on common consideration and thoughtfulness.  Let us look at it analogically.  Supposing a man's total number of wives was six, all of whom he married in pre-Islamic era.  Also supposing, his fifth or sixth wife or let's say all of his wives had no families of their own to support them.  Divorcing any of them would mean they would have to beg on the streets to survive.  If they had children it would only further complicate matters making the situation much harder.  For this reason, there is no compelling law spelled out in the Quran to divorce the remaining wives, in case a man had more than four spouses, all of whom he married prior to the Quranic Law.  But it certainly has been categorically confirmed and must be strictly adhered to, that no man is to marry more than four wives after the revelation of the Quranic Law, and if he does, obviously his marriage to a fifth woman would not be legal.   If he still insists on marrying a fifth time, then certainly he will have to divorce one of the four he already has.  But such a situation almost never arises.

Quoting one out of several Ahadith fabrications responsible for circulating the disinformation by misinterpreting Verse 33:50 is as follows:   

Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar: Ghaylan ibn Salamah ath-Thaqafi accepted Islam and that he had ten wives in the pre-Islamic period who accepted Islam along with him; so the Prophet (peace be upon him) told him to keep four and separate from the rest of them. Ahmad, Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah transmitted it. (Al-Tirmidhi, Number 945).

It's just as necessary to mention that the pigheaded Islamophobes are using such stuff to vilify Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) with claims that he "forced" others to divorce their additional wives but himself had more than four.   Needless to say, this is another group of despicable liars adding myths to myths.

A comment from  Fi-Zilal Al Quran written by Syed Qutb between 1951-65 claims "Earlier Sūrah Verse 4:3 ....  At the time the Prophet had nine wives, each of whom he married for a specific reason."  Other than the tireless scandal-mongering carried out by Hadith, it's not known how Syed Qutb discovered that the Prophet (pbuh) had "nine wives" when Surah An-Nissa was revealed or at any time for that matter.  By the way, Syed Qutb was a senior member of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood who wrote many Hadith-based tafsirs after he was imprisoned for the attempted assassination of President Gamal Abdel Nasser.  It is also stated that his tafsirs might have been "re-written."

Briefly put, there is NO evidence anywhere in the Quran that the Prophet (pbuh) had 8, 9 or 11 wives.  Even if you read any pieces of responsible history penned by impartial authors based on their unmotivated research, you will not find any contents alluding to such tittle-tattle.  This hearsay has the fingerprints of the Hadith from start to finish.  Tabari, the nastiest of all liars with a load of woven bull-crap, has gone to the extent of adding the Prophet's (pbuh) total number of wives up to 19 or 20 with a new rant that he "divorced" several of them.  Tabari is the same scheming psychopath with the brain of a cunning bird - desperately in need of being locked up in a madhouse - who started the fib of "Satanic Verses" cashed in by the repellent crook, Salman Rushdi.   Learn more on the Tabari/Rushdi mischief at
The mischief of Rushdi originated from the lies of al-Tabari.

Just for information:  Quoting translator and commentator Muhammed Asad:
"Islam does not countenance any form of concubinage, and categorically prohibits sexual relations between a man and a woman unless they are lawfully married to one another. In this respect, the only difference between a “free” woman and a slave is that whereas the former must receive a dower from her husband, no such obligation is imposed on a man who marries his rightfully owned slave (lit., “one whom his right hand possesses”) – that is, a woman taken captive in a “holy war”  waged in defense of the Faith or of liberty, for in such a case, the freedom conferred upon the bride by the very act of marriage is considered to be equivalent to a dower.”
Unquote:

One cannot be sure to what extent this perspective of a specific era is correctly defined by Muhammed Asad.   We know for sure that the Quran prohibits any physical relations between a man and a free woman unless they are legally married.  Whether or not captives whom "right hand possesses" (that is, slaves) require a similar legal marriage for consummation of  relationship is most likely not so, unless that captive is freed.  Concubinage applies only if a free woman has physical relations with a man out of wedlock.  A concubine is exactly the same as a mistress who isn't a slave but is cohabiting with a man outside of marriage voluntarily.   But for slaves (according to the nature of slavery), the mere act of being taken as captive identifies the bond between the slave woman and her master.   Such a harsh concept is one of the major reasons why the ideology of Islam does not support slavery, a culture which was largely abolished by the time the Message of the Quran was revealed to its completion.  To learn more, please read Slavery and its abolition in the light of the Quran and The term 'right hand possesses.'


Related post:
Discourse on the marriages of the Prophet  (pbuh)
Report Spam   Logged

Social Buttons

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2013



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2017, 12:57:21 am »

Wa'Salam and peace Sister.   You finished this work before me Smiley   I'm still in the midst of my research and your input has been tremendously helpful. 

I had been wondering over that idea of traditionalists because I know for sure the Quran does not mention anywhere that the Prophet (pbuh) is allowed more wives than others.  Few months ago a Hadither brother showed me Verse 33:50, saying that it was the source of this law. But when I read the Verse carefully, I couldn't find any clues  permitting the Prophet more wives than others.   The expression "only for you," refers to a privilege only to the Prophet (pbuh). So it set me thinking, what is the privilege?  Marrying cousins is permitted to all Muslim men.  In the times when slavery existed, all men (not just Muslims) around the world were legally allowed physical intimacy with female slaves they owned.  If any non-mehram believing woman proposes to a Muslim man, he is allowed to accept the proposal if he wishes.  So, in terms of marriage there is no privilege for the Prophet (pbuh). Privilege is obviously in the permission of non-payment of dower for a certain period, in a certain situation.

Actually even some sources of traditionalists do explain it as the concession to waive the dowry (in a specific situation as I unarguably understand), yet they generally add the unwarranted claim that the Prophet (pbuh) was allowed any number of wives, misinterpreting the aspect that any number of women can propose to the Prophet and he can accept their proposals (implying without dower).  So you can gauge how they mix up Quranic information with extra-Quranic contents.

For instance, I visited IslamWeb a few days ago just to get an idea of their views on Verse 33:50.  This is a traditional site, yet to my surprise they explained the special concession as waiving of dowry for marriage in the case of the Prophet (pbuh).   Quote: "The mentioned verse was revealed about the women who were made lawful to The Prophet (pbuh) in marriage. Among them is a woman who offers herself to the Prophet . It was allowed for him to marry her without bridal money. The verse further says that this ruling was special for the Prophet.  No Muslim can share this ruling with him," implying any other  man would have to pay dower to a lady if she similarly proposed marriage to him.  

In a nutshell, it means if a believing woman (apparently outside the extended family) proposed marriage to the Prophet (pbuh), he was entitled to accept it, if he wanted, without dower.  The allusion is marriage in extra ordinary situations, in case the woman felt she needed protection & support and the Prophet did not have enough financial means to provide the dower.  The crux of the matter being, it's a dowry issue and not an issue of "any number of wives."  The Prophet (pbuh) was not allowed more than four wives like other Muslim men.

Your explication of this subject is very thorough and thus very helpful.  Thank you Sister. 
Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3497



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2017, 01:40:48 am »

Salams and hiyo brother.  Shukran for going through my analysis and your accuracy in grasping it.  The points you stated have been just as helpful to me.  I too was more than a bit surprised at IslamWeb's error-free opinion.  The error creeps in because of those millions of hadith lies that randomly attribute different numbers of wives to the Prophet (pbuh) according to its whims, and thus traditionalists have distorted a portion of this Verse by misinterpreting that the Prophet married several women in that category who awaited marriage.  That's because these buggers just cannot mind their own business and shut their lying mouths.

So it set me thinking, what is the privilege?  Marrying cousins is permitted to all Muslim men.  In the times when slavery existed, all men (not just Muslims) around the world were legally allowed physical intimacy with female slaves they owned.  If any non-mehram believing woman proposes to a Muslim man, he is allowed to accept the proposal if he wishes.  So, in terms of marriage there is no privilege for the Prophet (pbuh). Privilege is obviously in the permission of non-payment of dower for a certain period, in a certain situation. 

Very intelligently dissected.  That's precisely it.  In terms of marriage there's no privilege and indisputably there's absolutely no allusion whatsoever to presume that the Prophet's marriages (to whomsoever) could exceed beyond the legal limit of four.
Report Spam   Logged

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2013



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 01:46:17 am »

Right on Sister.
Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4453



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 11:06:22 am »


Alhumdulilah, very valuable thread.  This is one topic we hadn't discussed until now.  We've logically studied and evaluated for concluding that Verse 33:50 refers to forgoing dowry in specific marriages and not un-limiting the number of wives for the Prophet (pbuh).  What is the source of evaluation of many segments of traditionalists to presume that the Verse permits the Prophet (pbuh) to marry any number of women other than the man-written dupes infamous for their deceit?

Big thanks to sister and brother.  Salaams, peace.  Allah bless.

Btw, yes, IslamWeb's rationale surprises me too considering it's Hadith-based roots.
Report Spam   Logged

Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3497



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 11:58:03 am »


....  What is the source of evaluation of many segments of traditionalists to presume that the Verse permits the Prophet (pbuh) to marry any number of women other than the man-written dupes infamous for their deceit?    ................ 

Salams and hiyo Sis.  Deceit is never hung up on evaluation.  On the contrary their idea is to evade it.  The sole goal of those indulging in it is to establish laws based on personal interest as a means to discard Quranic Laws and all its contents so that the world never gets to study and grasp the Final Message.  There was no better way for them to promote their deceit other than storytelling about the Prophet (pbuh) concerning many aspects of life in a manner identical to the devastating shamelessness of the heavily altered Old & New Testaments (which now stands altered 101%). 

An example is their fixation on the Prophet's personal life, a fixation that builds a roly-poly mountain from scratch.  Never forget the name 'Tabari.'  He floors even those household names among liars such as Bukhari, Nasai etc.  Tabari was Satan's nitpicked ambassador on earth as the sworn enemy of God Almighty.   On the Day of Judgement, I will InshAllah, beseech Allah to show me just a glimpse of the depth of Hellfire where Tabari is frying, InshAllah.  The amount of damage this man has done to distort Islam and the number of people he has misled, providing ammunition galore in the hands of Islamophobes (who existed in all eras of history and most of all at present) is unaccountable.    While the teacher of falsehood Bukhari, his student  Hajaj, and a string of spiritual felons that followed never gave up dithering on their various brands of blithering lies .... some claiming 9 wives, some 13, some 11, some 8 ..... Satan's prime minister, Tabari, stamped his falsehood on the number of 15 wives.  The liar also claimed to know that with "two wives the marriage wasn't consummated."  The liar further cooked a spicy recipe of list of women the Prophet supposedly "divorced."   Would such foxy mother-f'ers even for a minute value the necessity of evaluation?  Still more pathetic are the naive followers who are never pushed an inch by the endless pile of hand-written traditional mess of their spiritual criminals and double-crossers blatantly displaying their contradictions and variety of hoodwinks and diddles. These naive disciples are such haters of their own souls that they waste no time rolling up their sleeves to pounce like vampires at the throats & necks of those who dare to ask a single basic question as evidence of authenticity of this massive ocean of lies they call "sunnah" aka "tradition."
Report Spam   Logged

Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4453



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 12:30:01 pm »


Smiley  I couldn't have said it any better dear Sis  .... nor could I agree more.  Additionally, your very honest and open comment helps me to see the oxy-moron of my own query.   Why would deceivers ever want to seek evaluation for the fraud they promote?

Allah bless you and thanks a bundle Sister.


Report Spam   Logged

Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3497



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 12:48:02 pm »

Aw, no sis.   There is no oxymoron in it.  Your query is spot on.  As an honest person, you wouldn't think of concluding an opinion without evaluation, as truthful and evidential as possible. Thus the wavelength of those crooks doesn't occur to us.  It's just that I've now learned while analyzing their lies, a study of their manipulative psychology is essential to get to the depth of their deceit to catch the specific trend of every type of scheming.
Report Spam   Logged

Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4453



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 12:52:40 pm »

 Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup
Report Spam   Logged

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2013



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 12:58:19 pm »

.......

While the teacher of falsehood Bukhari, his student  Hajaj, and a string of spiritual felons that followed never gave up dithering on their various brands of blithering lies .... ...........
Satan's prime minister, Tabari, stamped his falsehood on the number of 15 wives.  ....................

 Grin Cheesy Grin    The most apt description of that enemy of Allah Almighty.

Satan the bugger never stops the pettifoggery-appointments of his reps on earth.  In modern times there are already several PMs, state councellor and presidents nitpicked by Satan to do his job such as Modi, Netanyahu, Aung San Su Khi, Trump, MbS etc  ..... bunch of Hellbound murderous criminals.  Not to mention Satan's former deputy, Obama the killer-liar.

Many thanks for the interesting comment Sister Heba, unveiling the unspoken facts.
Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4453



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 01:09:52 pm »


Very Well said brother TS. 
Report Spam   Logged

Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3497



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 01:11:28 pm »


..........................

Satan the bugger never stops the pettifoggery-appointments of his reps on earth.  In modern times there are already several PMs, state councellor and presidents nitpicked by Satan to do his job such as Modi, Netanyahu, Aung San Su Khi, Trump, MbS etc  ..... bunch of Hellbound murderous criminals.  Not to mention Satan's former deputy, Obama the killer-liar.

 Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup
Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2897



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 01:29:46 pm »


I went through this thread with wrapped attention as I so much needed to speak on it to our sisters & brothers at my masjid community center.  I had been pondering on it, oft and on, for some years actually, and I knew it had answers to thwart the traditionalist assumptions perched on their rickety stand.   I'm sure everyone knows how much advantage the stereotyping Islamophobes with their limited conniving minds have taken out of this falsehood.

I'm gonna print this out and have some real discussions this coming weekend, InshAllah. 
Report Spam   Logged

Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4453



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 01:43:27 pm »


Sister Ruhi, are those folks Hadithists?  If so, the noisy fracas with namecalling and insults hurled at you would be a waste of time Smiley

Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2897



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2017, 01:46:26 pm »

Well yeah Sis, they are Hadithists.  But the 2 sisters and 1 brother who run the place are comparatively rational, in that, they are amenable to reason and don't mind resolving an issue by agreeing to disagree with some bit of respect.  That's all expect.  I don't need to convince anyone.  What's important to me is to simply put the fact on the table as my line of thoughts.  Of course, several folks who visit our Muslim community center are sensitive Hadithists.  So needless to say, there has already been quite a few fracases in the past.  But that doesn't bother me as I keep my cool and speak respectfully, firmly sticking to my stance.  As the phrase goes, a wise person can learn from the comments of stubborn fools than the other way round  Cheesy
Report Spam   Logged


Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Scammers & spammers will be reported | © If you borrow MV contents you must mention our link with hypertext | MV Team is not responsible for comments by members or guests.
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum

Buy traffic for your forum/website
traffic-masters
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy