Guests wanting to sign-up as members MUST first introduce themselves in detail at Zainab's Lounge, accessible from Muslim Villa's Guestbook Board (top sticky post titled "Zainab's Lounge"). Approval of members is at the discretion of the MV Team. You have arrived at a place of serious learning through mutual consultation where we have zero tolerance for trouble-makers, narcissists and needless disputants. We simply stand for what is compatible with the Sublime Quran regardless of titles such as "traditionalism" or "modernism."
Muslim Villa
October 16, 2018, 05:02:55 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Animals with claws & cattle/sheep fat banned only for Jews or everyone?


+-
Shoutbox
October 09, 2018, 09:50:31 pm Ruhi_Rose: Salam brother.  Very easy. First click on the board title you wish to post in.  You'll find main board topics below and sub-boards (default label "child boards") above.  If you wish to post in main board click "new topic" button on top left.  If you wish to post in any of the sub-boards, click on that sub board title and then click "new topic" button on above left side.  You'll get the format for typing your post, then click "post" button below.
October 06, 2018, 12:46:27 pm momin: how can i post things here if i have something to post. Smiley
 Smiley
September 14, 2018, 12:33:22 am Ruhi_Rose: Yes br. TS, that's a very important article to read.
September 14, 2018, 12:08:22 am N. Truth Seeker: Thank u.  Allah bless u for remembering, sister.   Also reminding our guests to read: The traditional declaration of fasting on the 10th of Muharram .... the real story behind it. Same article in the blog too.
September 13, 2018, 11:09:22 pm Zeynab: Muharram 1440 A.H.
Please read why our Islamic new year is full of tragic memories.
June 08, 2018, 08:49:28 pm Heba E. Husseyn: Leilatul Qadr 1439 (2018) on June 8. To learn about this great Night, read our posts on Leilatul Qadr @ this thread.
May 16, 2018, 04:03:41 am Ruhi_Rose: Ramadan Mubarak to u too brother and to everyone.  May Allah accept our efforts.  Ameen.
May 16, 2018, 04:01:41 am N. Truth Seeker: Ramadan 2018 Mubarak to all.  Just finished sahoor, getting ready for Fajr.  Alhumdulilah.
View Shout History
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Animals with claws & cattle/sheep fat banned only for Jews or everyone?  (Read 51 times)
Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2911



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« on: September 01, 2018, 03:26:42 am »

 
BismEm


"Unto those who are Jews We forbade every animal with claws. And of the oxen and the sheep forbade We unto them the fat thereof save that upon the backs or the entrails, or that which is mixed with the bone.  That We awarded them for their rebellion. And lo! We verily are truthful."  6:146 Surah Al-Anam.

Salams dear everyone.  I require careful consultation to make sure I don't make any mistakes by misunderstanding the facts.  From Verse 6:146, I would presume that all animals with claws and the fat of cattle and sheep was forbidden to the Jews as a punishment for their disobedience and sins.  My first question is, does the ban still exist for the Jews?  Secondly, can it be taken that the prohibition for eating all animals with claws was/is only for the Jews and not all believers?  After all, traditional sources do ban all animals with claws.  However for sure, cattle and sheep fat (plenty of which is contained with beef, mutton and lamb) are not banned by them.

Your feedback dear folks.


Report Spam   Logged

Social Buttons

Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4465



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2018, 12:34:29 am »



Walaikum As-Salaam dear sister.  In my humble opinion the prohibition is only for Jews.   Most likely, it was banned for Jews of that particular era (presumably the period or close to the period when the Torah was revealed).   I don't think it includes Jews of later times including the Jews who lived during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and those of later times including the Ashkenazi non-Semite European Jews of today.  Although these Jews have also transgressed and sinned very much, probably even more than the ones before (which surely Allah would know best),  from what I know concerning the values of the Noble Quran,  usually punishment of the sins of a particular generation of people are awarded only to them.  It's very likely that concerning today's Jews, some other punishment more dire is impending for their crimes against humanity by the Will of Allah Almighty.  But I think the prohibition as a punishment in V.6:146 is only for the Jews of that particular era.  And of course, only Allah knows best.

Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2911



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2018, 12:40:36 am »



Right sis.  So it means Muslims can eat animals with claws?  .... and of course, all Muslims are eating cattle and sheep fat.
Report Spam   Logged

Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4465



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2018, 01:23:19 am »



Well, as we know, except for Verse 6:146 which refers to a specific situation, the Quran does not categorically prohibit animals with claws and fangs to all believers.   You will find a lot of Muslims citing Verse 5:5 of Surah Al-Maidah to promote this idea, that animals with claws are allowed by the Quran because it does not specifically say 'no.'  Furthermore, many Muslims also think that since Allah prohibited animals with claws to the Jews as a punishment, so that must have been allowed to them before and continues to be allowed to other communities.  That could be true, I won't debate it as only Allah knows best.

However, I would like to discuss some further details.

"This day are good things made lawful for you.   The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them."  5:5  Surah Al-Maidah.

To understand this Verse we must use wisdom and plenty of common sense.  "good things" may not necessarily include animals with claws and fangs.  But it surely does confirm that we can consume all those animals as food specified in the Quran.  Additionally, it may also include the aspect of purity and cleanliness applied in the preparation of Halal food.    Preparation of Halal food requires use of beneficial or at least non-harmful ingredients, safe methods and clean surroundings.   Look at the chemicals, synthetics and preservatives used in most commercial and frozen Halal foods today!   Think of the risks of illnesses involved in the preparation of processed and heavily barbecued (much burnt) meat.  Not to mention dirty kitchens infested with flies and roaches.  Thus, even if we buy Halal meat and cook it using unsafe ingredients, unsafe methods and in unhygienic conditions, the Halal aspect of the food may diminish.   Allah Almighty wants us to care for our spiritual as well as physical health.

Secondly, when Allah says in V.5:5 that food of the people of the Scripture is lawful for us and our food lawful for them, apparently this was true back then when the old and new testaments were not that extensively altered and these people still adhered to food laws similar to those in the Noble Quran.  Today it's quite different.  Our food remains Halal for them but not entirely the other way round.  That's because they've deviated far more than before. Thus we need to be discerning by keeping in mind the complete principles of the Noble Quran as guidance while making decisions.

Furthermore, at the same time, we can also perceive that the Quran does not categorically permit animals with claws and fangs to believers.  On the safer side, as a Muslim, submitter to Allah alone, I would prefer to avoid animals with claws/fangs.  References in the Quran permit us to eat cattle, sheep, camel, poultry and fish.  I think that's more than enough to satisfy our hunger.  We don't need to go about killing any and every animal for food, do we?  This is my personal opinion to the best of my knowledge of the Quran to ensure I don't go off limits concerning my decisions.  I won't prohibit others not to eat animals with claws nor vice-versa.  It's not within my bounds to say that.  No one has the right to make assertive declarations if Allah has not stated anything specifically.   Each one of us can only speak for ourselves by making our own decisions as we perceive proper in accordance with Quranic values ... or our personal eating habits.  For example, if I don't like the taste or flavor of fish or red meat, it's fine if I avoid whatever I don't enjoy eating or whatever may not be too suitable for my health. These are practical issues the depend of personal choices.  But that certainly does not grant me the liberty to propagate a ban on such foods for everyone.  That would be thoroughly wrong and against Quranic values as Allah has already told us not to deem anything lawful or unlawful based on our whims, unless HE confirms it.

"And speak not, concerning that which your own tongues qualify (as clean or unclean), the falsehood: "This is lawful, and this is forbidden," so that you invent a lie against Allah.  Indeed! those who invent a lie against Allah will not succeed."  (16:116) An-Nahl.

 

 
Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2911



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2018, 01:52:44 am »



That makes plenty of sense.   Huge bundles of thanks sis.  It's making me reflect and learn.

Fish is allowed but how about crab?  Some of our sources say it's a 'no-no.'   So it's not included in seafood?


Report Spam   Logged

Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4465



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2018, 01:56:52 am »


Yes sister Ruhi, several of our sources don't allow it.   Their reasoning is that any living being that can survive in land as well as water is Haram to eat.  Crab can live on land too as do creatures like snakes, crocodiles and turtles etc.  The Quran does not say this.  However, we should also be aware that Allah Almighty expects us to realize many basic issues with the help of our common sense and a sense of human civilization.  Which person in their right mind would feel comfortable eating such stuff?  Certainly not me.

Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2911



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2018, 01:59:35 am »



lol ,, get your point dear sis.  It makes my family and me yucky too.

"However, we should also be aware that Allah Almighty expects us to realize many basic issues with the help of our common sense and a sense of human civilization.  Which person in their right mind would feel comfortable eating such stuff?  Certainly not me."   
 
Couldn't agree more.


Report Spam   Logged

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2023



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2018, 02:10:28 am »



I too think Verse 6:146 refers to Jews of that time though their tyranny hasn't lessened until now and may Allah inflict them with many more punishments, ameen.

Certain things were made unlawful for the Jews as punishment for their rebellion has been mentioned in the Quran in 3 specific Verses - V.4:146, V.4:146 and V.3:93.

"Unto those who are Jews We forbade every animal with claws. And of the oxen and the sheep forbade We unto them the fat thereof save that upon the backs or the entrails, or that which is mixed with the bone.  That We awarded them for their rebellion. And lo! We verily are truthful."  6:146 Surah Al-Anam. 

"Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews We forbade them good things which were (before) made lawful unto them, and because of their much hindering from Allah's way,"  4:146  Surah An-Nissa.

"All food was lawful unto the Children of Israel, save that which Israel forbade himself, (in days) before the Torah was revealed. Say: Produce the Torah and read it (unto us) if you are truthful."  3:93  Surah Al-Imran.


The Verses of Surah Al-Anam and Al-Nissa convey similar information as has already been discussed in this thread. 

The most glaring transgressing by the Jews was their attitude against the Divine Law, that is, rejection of those aspects of the Divine Law that didn't suit their personal or selfish interest. Consequently they became their own law-makers, declaring many things 'unlawful' which were not prohibited by Allah.  Thus, Allah abandoned them in their state of transgression as a punishment.  Laws by tyrannical lawmakers prohibiting the lawful or permitting the unlawful are sometimes allowed to prevail in a community in certain circumstances / situations and that is Allah's way of punishing a community gone astray by leaving them to wander in their ignorance and contumacy so they only grow in sin and ignorance.  That's the extreme loss.

Verse 3:93 of Surah Al-Imran may possibly refer to the period of Prophets Ibrahim and his sons who were all very righteous.  Obviously through the commandments of Allah Almighty, these former Prophets knew what was Halal for them to eat and what was Haram.  This practice was at some point picked up by the Hebrews when the Torah was not yet revealed.  Accordingly the Jews forbade some foods to themselves, but they apparently exaggerated it as is inherent of humans.  They declared or categorized many things as Haram which were not forbidden in the times of Prophets Ibrahim and his family.  It was also not mentioned in the original Torah which came later.  Thus Allah Almighty challenges them, telling them to prove it through the Torah.    The exaggerated interpolations were entered in the Torah after the Jews changed it.

Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4465



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2018, 02:15:55 am »



Many thanks for this very useful input brother TS.
Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2911



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2018, 02:21:13 am »



Thanks from me too for adding this, brother.  A very perceptive clarification.
Report Spam   Logged

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2023



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 02:25:17 am »



Very welcome sisters.

Moreover, actually traditionalists assume only those animals with claws and fangs are prohibited which use their claws and fangs to attack other animals or humans.   They say that any animal that does not derive strength from its fangs or claws is permitted to be taken as food .. such as rabbit, hyenas and fox, as well as chicken, doves and birds, ducks and goose that don't attack with their claws.   According to them eagles and falcons come into the category of clawed/fanged birds that attack and thus aren't allowed as food.   As Sister Zeynab mentioned, this is also a similar point which the Quran does not specify but we need to use our common sense to make the right decision.  I'm sure it's the natural instinct of most of people not to eat rabbits as they're so dearly loved as pets.  And most folks would feel yucky eating hyenas and foxes.

Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4465



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2018, 02:29:09 am »

 .......   also a similar point which the Quran does not specify but we need to use our common sense to make the right decision.  I'm sure it's the natural instinct of most of people not to eat rabbits as they're so dearly loved as pets.  And most folks would feel yucky eating hyenas and foxes.

Exactly brother.
Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2911



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2018, 02:38:06 am »



Our traditionalists never stop their contradictions.  Hyenas are actually among a wide variety of species known to adopt humans as prey and attack them.  Fox is of the dog family.  No sane person would eat dog meat then how come fox is permitted?
Report Spam   Logged

N. Truth Seeker
Quiet guy technology nerd | TEAM MUSLIM VILLA
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2023



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2018, 02:41:14 am »



Yes, that's precisely it, sister.  They're totally confused.   Someone saying something, another one saying something quite different.  Deviation from the Quran can only lead to confusion and incongruity. 
Report Spam   Logged



HE WHO KNEELS BEFORE ALLAH CAN
STAND BEFORE ANYONE.
Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4465



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2018, 02:46:48 am »




........   Deviation from the Quran can only lead to confusion and incongruity. 

Of course, absolutely.

Report Spam   Logged


Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Scammers & spammers will be reported | If you borrow MV contents you must mention our link with hypertext | MV Team is not responsible for comments by members or guests.
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum

Buy traffic for your forum/website
traffic-masters
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy