Registration of new members is currently closed. Guestbook opened for now.  Guests who have questions may post at our guestbook.  No lengthy debates please. Kindly note: MV is a place for serious learning through mutual consultation where we have zero tolerance for trouble-makers, narcissists and needless disputants. We simply stand for what is compatible with the Noble Quran regardless of titles such as "traditionalism" or "modernism." We have the right to our opinion just as you have the right to yours. All disagreements must be left at that. Final Judgement belongs to The Almighty.
MUSLIM VILLA - QURAN ONLY
March 29, 2024, 05:53:16 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Islam’ and ‘Muslim’ in Quran

+-
Shoutbox
November 01, 2023, 03:44:32 pm Zainab_M: Allahhuma ameen .. ameen.
November 01, 2023, 03:43:43 pm Ruhi_Rose: Yes .. making lots of dua everyday ..... watching those real life video clips, my face feels wet with tears all the time.  May ALLAH grant the best to these wonderful, brave & steadfast martyrs,  Ameen ya Allah.
November 01, 2023, 03:38:26 pm Zainab_M: Keep praying, praying a lot for Gaza. It's worse than a prison .. it's a concentration camp.  Children as young as 10 or 11 are having to care for their younger siblings ages 2, 3 and 4 becoz many have lost both parents.  It's a very, very, very tearful situation there.
October 26, 2023, 03:40:19 pm N. Truth Seeker: Don't forget to look up MV Blog Zainab's Lounge for our Gaza updates.
October 20, 2023, 04:24:44 pm Zainab_M: Right sister Heba.  Gaza hospital bombing has the fingerprints of Israel all over it.  For Israel this is no big crime.  They have done this and much worse many times in the past and intend to do the same and worse many more times in near future.
October 20, 2023, 04:20:20 pm Heba E. Husseyn: Catching Zionist lies isn't hard. Soon after Gaza hospital bombing killing and maiming hundreds, Israel was quick to accuse Islamic Jihad of a misfired rocket.  That didn't sound plausible because IJ does not have such sophisticated bombing devices.  Zionist lie was fully exposed when anglican archbishop of Jerusalem,Hosam Naoum,  said today that 3 or 4 days prior to boming Israel had warned Gaza hospital to evacuate. Yet CIA claims in its flawed analysis that the rocket did not come from Israel.  But conveniently does not explain how Israel could have known 4 days earlier that a "misfired" rocket from IJ was coming.  Yet on the basis of this flawed & bias analysis of CIA, Biden is comforting Israel he believes Israel didn't do that war crimes bombing.
July 29, 2023, 03:02:07 am Zainab_M: Yesterday was Ashura, Muharram 10, 1444 (July 27, 2023).  Read about this very tragic day and details of the world's greatest 7th century revolutionary: WHO WAS HUSSEIN.
June 28, 2023, 09:48:39 am Zainab_M: Walaikum As Salaam.  This was the first Hajj open to all after the pandemic. It was attended by 2.6 million Muslims.
View Shout History
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Islam’ and ‘Muslim’ in Quran  (Read 1479 times)
0 Members and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.
Zainab_M
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 6318



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« on: November 18, 2018, 01:06:03 am »



Salaam and peace brother.  I will respond to a few of your points in your last post  of this thread that are quite baffling concerning their imprecision and erroneous estimation.   Also, some of your contents are not connected with the topic of submission and peace so I won't discuss them.   I will only highlight your direct over-emphasis on "peace" because of its incorrect connection with the term "Islam".


 
In Arabic we would say "al-islamu assilmu or al-islamussilmu which means Islam is Silm which means Islam is obtaining Peace.

In all honesty, that's not correct. It's another one of your wishful designs which is NOT supported by the Noble Quran, something we have already clarified umpteen times with solid references from the Quran as well as the Arabic root-word-principle that Islam is submission and salam (the believers' social greeting) is peace.  These are two independent terms that do not interlap regardless of a single root which often has its own set of vocabulary consisting of several words with differing definitions. 


People who are pro-Islam often say it means "peace". Many who are anti-Islam especially for political reasons - they mostly opt for using the word "submission", in a negative sense.

Excuse me, but I view that as a twist which isn't insightful.  You could have been more direct.  If your allusion is that MV peddles what you perceive as "anti-Islam" based on "political reasons," you couldn't be farther from the truth.  Rather, the Noble Quran does not separate religion from practical life which makes the Quran a complete code of conduct.  The examples my colleagues cited on oppression of Muslims were assessed in accordance with Quranic ethics, NOT political indoctrination.  Throughout the annals of history, the helpless have been exploited by the strong & powerful.  That continues until the present, in which the guilty include non-Muslims as well as the so-called Muslims or takfiris (traitors, deviants / hypocrites).  It's the entitlement as well as a moral duty of every sincere believer who cares for humanity to at least raise their voices against such injustices.  "Silence in the face of injustice is complicity with the oppressor."  This was spoken by the late Italian human rights campaigner, Ginetta Sagon.   

Allah Almighty has confirmed that His Final Message is the Sole Criterion (Al-Furqan, refer V.25:1).   Thus, there's no point in reading the Quran by cutting yourself out of the world.   Our worship of Allah and following the ideology He commanded is not just a prayer-time necessity;  it requires adherence throughout our lives.  Allah expects us to follow His rules, to think, reflect and speak accordingly even after we finish our prayer and step out of our prayer mat.

"When you have performed the act of worship, remember Allah, standing, sitting and reclining.  And when you are in safety, observe proper worship. Worship at fixed times has been enjoined on the believers."  (4:103).

"Such as remember Allah, standing, sitting, and reclining, and consider the creation of the heavens and the earth, (and say): Our Rab! You created not this in vain. Glory be to YOU! Preserve us from the doom of Fire." (3:191).



An interesting thing to note is that word 'Sword' is not mentioned even once in Al-Kitab.

No one ever talked of the "sword" in connection with the Quran.    I don't know how or why you concocted such a notion.   Needless to say, submission to Allah does NOT mean picking up a sword.    Islam is NOT the ideology of the sword.   Since we believe that Islam alludes to submission and not peace, so you conclude that it's linked to the "sword."  Despite your astute maneuvers, it looks like your rejection of Islam as submission is driving you into hasty 'black & white' judgments that are astonishing, if not outright ignorant.    We have stated many times that peace is a priority in Islam but it's not an unquestioning or mandatory requirement for all conflicts in all spheres of life because every scenario has a different inside story.  Justice is as important as peace, and application of peace must not override justice.  In regard to Quranic emphasis on justice, take a look at the following Verses which you have conveniently dismissed until now.  Verses:  An-Nisa V.135,   Al-Araf V.29,  Al-Araf V.181,   Al-Maidah V.8,  Al-Maidah V.42, Yunus V.47,  Al-Hadid V.25, and many more.


"Their intention is to resort for judgment to the Taghut (Rebellious/Violent one), though they were ordered to reject him. But Satan's intention is to lead them astray far away (from the right)." 4:60.

 "rebellious / violent one" in brackets as stated in your translation is not from the Quran but the translator's chosen standpoint.  Kindly read the entire Verse carefully.  Taghut here refers to false deities or false judges.  It alludes to the source or authority that decides on the basis of non-Divine Laws or a judicial system that does not acknowledge Allah Almighty as the Final Authority and The Most Supreme.   The reference in this Verse is to those who outwardly profess belief (primarily the hypocrites apparently) in the Final Message, yet they seek to resolve matters via non-Divine sources, and thus they reject the Noble Quran as Al-Furqan;  that's their transgression on crossing limits.  It does not refer to physical violence. Some interpretations of 'taghut' may include the concept of tyranny which refers to moral decadence and may entail despotism.  Hence, one can gauge how flawed your explication is.   Such unsupportive and constricted renderings can be profoundly misguiding for learners.

This is what happens when one reads the Quran with a preconditioned mind focused on their own choices rather than the principles of Allah, without concentrating on the preceding or following Verses of every Ayat they attempt to elucidate.  If you had concentrated on Verses 4:59 and then on 4:61, perhaps you would have assessed more carefully. 

Verse 4:59 says:  "O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if you are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end."

Verse 4:61 says:  "And when it is said unto them: Come unto that which Allah has revealed and unto the messenger, you see the hypocrites turn from you with aversion."

The clarification is very simple, that is, an allusion to people seeking judicial advise from sources other than the Noble Quran.



In the above Ayas, Allah exposes those who are actually the violence mongers on Earth. These are those who say that we believe in Allah and the Hereafter, however, they do not themselves know that they are deceiving themselves. The love of violence in their hearts is termed as a disease and Ayas of Allah, increase their disease. When they are told, not to do violence on Earth, they say that we are doing it for a noble cause. 

The above commentary referring to V. 2:8-12. 

The "disease" ('marazun' V.2:10 [derivative of marz]) refers to the sickness of disbelief and hypocrisy.  They claimed to be reformers ('muṣ'liḥuna' V.2:11)  but were actually corrupters ('muf'siduna' V.2:12).   Again, muf'siduna (or working corruption) does not exclusively imply bodily or tangible force;  it denotes  double-dealing, underhandedness, subterfuge, secret and illicit conspiracy that's detrimental to some other cause.  Differently put, "mufsiduna" can be explained as mischief-mongering and the expression is all-inclusive and general in which its negative connotation varies depending on the situation or circumstances.



"Those who have been expelled from their circles unjustly,- because of their statement that, "Our Lord is Allah". If it were not that Allah defended one set of people with another, there would surely have been destroyed silos, businesses, prayers, and mosques, in which Allah's name is remembered in abundance. Allah will certainly aid those who aids in His (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will)."   22:40 

Those people who make Allah their Lord (they do not take instructions and orders other than from Allah), they are hated by people bent on violence and war-mongering activities, and they are ousted out of their circles of faith by the disbelievers. The disbelievers label them as an ousted caste. Had Allah not defended the people of the world from these war mongers, violent people, there would have been great destruction in the world. The violent war mongers terrorists would not even leave people going to prayers and mosques, they try to bomb them also. 

Well yes, this is precisely what Sister Ruhi meant when she spoke on the persecution of minority Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar which you discreetly yet irrationally declared as "anti-Islam for political reasons."   So, let's try to grasp this Verse rationally as Allah wants us to.  Verse 22:40 is about the persecution inflicted by disbelievers on Monotheists.   If they attack you, what do you do?  Indeed, first you appeal for peace as that's foremost.  If they agree, then all hostilities must cease and the problem is resolved.  But what if they don't respond to your call for peace and persist in violent persecution?   Allah Almighty answers that as follows: 

"Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors."  (2:190).

"You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers."  (2:191).

"If they refrain, then ALLAH is Forgiving and Merciful."  (2:192).

"You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship ALLAH freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors."  (2:193).

And ... this is exactly what we signify when we mention peace as the first priority but not a compulsory precondition, in case your opponents persist on violence and harm.



"Enemies of the believers  are the terrorists, the violent war-mongers. So, Allah's order is to terrorize your enemies with great preparations " 

Yes of course, that has been our view from the beginning.   So we agree on that.  Hurray for a change!    Believers are entitled to retaliate against those who terrorize us.  But those who offer peace with sincerity, we accept their offer.  Simple as that.   By the way, this point is outside the topic of 'submission' and 'peace.'

I will stop here with my quotations & responses because the rest of the Verses you quoted deal with other aspects of life.  I am only discussing the issue you initially raised, insinuating peace having precedence over submission to Allah and linking Islam with salam. 

In a nutshell, the Noble Quran is very, very clear about the definition of "Islam" which is undoubtedly submission.  "Salam" is a social greeting of peace incumbent upon believers.


I suggest you keep to your own site as we cannot trust the suitability of all your posts in conformity with Quranic norms and assertions.  As we have observed, you definitely indulge in tampering of Quranic translations to advocate your selected hypothesis.  Your Quranic view appears to have a foundational difference with ours on the basic perception of the term 'Islam' to begin with, which is very significant and cannot be ignored as many other Quranic principles are intertwined with the Quranic assertion of submission (Islam).   Each time such folks put up a post, we are left on the tenterhooks until we have checked the entire piece, as we have no idea what subtle twists their interpretations may take to repudiate a confirmed Quranic stance that may misrepresent MV and confuse the guest readers.   It also gets too time consuming for us as our job isn't editing & moderating the works of others.  I'm simply being honest.

We are not supposed to hamper with Quranic contents for the purpose of making them compatible with our concepts we personally fancy.  Rather, we need to seek compatibility of our own concepts with the Quran in order to stay within Al-Furqan.

I thank you and Allah bless.   As-Salaam Alaikum.
   


   
Report Spam   Logged


Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Scammers & spammers will be reported | © If you borrow MV contents you must mention our link with hypertext | MV Team is not responsible for comments by members or guests.
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum


Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy