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What is created first in fetus, bone or flesh?


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Ruhi_Rose
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« on: December 17, 2018, 08:52:04 am »



 BismEm


Salams dear all.

There's one brother at our community center who was arguing that study shows flesh is created first so he claims he finds is confusing why Verse 23:14 mentions bones created first.  But when I read Verse 23:14 with proper concentration, I found that's not what the Verse says.  Instead the Quranic reference is to a systematic and contemporaneous process.  The Quranic expressions "sperm drop,"  "clinging substance or clot," and "lump" which is a reference to embryo are the different stages and when it reaches the "lump" stage, that's when bone  and flesh formation begin as a process. 

Your feedback please.



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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2018, 08:58:24 am »



Sister's comment sounds to be going in the right direction.  I would also like some feedback on this as I've come across quite a few quarrelsome folks picking this aspect for the sake of argument, even though they themselves know very little or nothing about the developmental stages of fetus.

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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2018, 09:21:44 am »




Yes brother TS.  Sister observed it right.  Let us take a closer look at Verse 23:14.

"Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators."  (23:14) Al-Mominun.  [Translation Sahih International]

"Then We created the sperm-drop (into) a clinging substance, then We created the clinging substance (into) an embryonic lump, then We created the embryonic lump (into) bones, then We clothed the bones (with) flesh; then We produce it (as) a creation another. So blessed is Allah (the) Best of the Creators."  (23:14) Al Mominun.  [Translation word by word Corpus Quran].





Embryonic lump = is the early stage of the fertilized egg or the offspring, approximately 2nd to 8th week later or after fertilization.   In other words, it is a thing at a rudimentary stage that shows potential for development.

Image above of 6-week human embryo is very small and underdeveloped, almost indistinguishable and really tiny as the Quran describes a "lump."   You can perhaps only discern the beginning of fingers and what may appear as eyes.  This is approximately the size of a pomegranate seed .... yeah, that itty bitty!  Prior to that, an embryo can be described as a collection of cells (probably the developing point from the sperm-drop).  About 15 or 16 weeks later, a fetus looks bigger and takes a somewhat human shape.  This is about the size of an apple or a pear.   Bones aren't visible here because they already started getting covered with flesh.  Prior to development, these bones were soft cartilages.  Or, one can say, in early stages fetal skeleton is made of cartilages (sort of dense tissues composed of gel-like fibres and cells).  That also indicates ossification starts same time as development of flesh and is completed after the birth of the baby.   Thus flesh and bone develop more or less simultaneously in uterus, and if you read Verse 23:14 that's exactly the allusion more than 1,400 years ago.  The Noble Quran does not say bones are formed first as some opine who haven't understood the Verse correctly.  The Quran defines that the embryonic lump is the starting point of flesh and bone.  After ossification begins in that lump, the bones start to form and as it develops further, flesh and bones continue to form - the flesh covering the bones.

Another study observes early stages of bone development (from cartilages) begins when the fetus in approximately 6 weeks.  Then around 15 weeks, the fetus-skin begins to form and it is almost transparent or "cheesy."   The skin starts to become less transparent and fat begins to develop between 19 and 21 weeks.  Thus, bones appear first and a little later the flesh.

The point here is, whether the bones and flesh develop simultaneously or bones first and then flesh, in either case, it conforms with the Quranic information which states the initial embryo turning into a lump of flesh, develops with bones and eventually the flesh completely covering the bones shortly prior to birth.

Frankly, medical science is not too clear yet of the exact period and relation between the development of bone and flesh, except that the process happens more or less concurrently and it's this procedure of the fetus that finishes with the bones concealed by the flesh.


All praise be to Allah The Almighty.


Development of the fetus - Verse 6, Surah Az Zumar.






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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2018, 09:31:50 am »



Many thanks for this Sister Heba.  It's so simply and perfectly explained.  Really helped me with Verse 23:14.   I must save this for future discussions.


SubhanAllah ya Allah.  Your guidance is by far the most precious wealth.

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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2018, 09:33:22 am »



A big welcome brother  Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2018, 09:42:31 am »



A load of thanks dear Sis Heba.  This is what I had grasped too.  Actually some translations also are not too correct and thus people like that brother at the community centre get more confused.  The translations of Sahih Int'l and Corpus Quran are precisely articulated.   I will InshAllah print this and take it there next week. 

Indeed the guidance of The Almighty is indispensable for human civilization.  Alhumdulilah ya Rab.


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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2018, 09:43:49 am »



Big welcome to you too dear sis   Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2018, 06:10:21 am »



Right Sister Ruhi ..... and very well detailed Sis Heba.  It was great info for me too.

The reference in Verse 23:14 is to the development of cartilages into bones  .... a process through which "cartilage intermediate" is formed and then replaced by bone cells .. it's part of ossification.  And cartilages are present in the embryo (lump) much prior to flesh.

Furthermore, even after 9 months when the baby is born, bones still remain very soft, much softer than adults.  For that again Allah Almighty has a purpose.  The baby's bones are required to be soft during and after birth so they can fit through the birth canal and also facilitate growth after birth.   Alhumdulilah.

Not to forget, Allah is explaining this to humankind more than 1400 years ago and the Quranic expressions and style are revealed by HIM in a manner so that folks back then could make sense of it and understand it.   If Allah wanted He could have mentioned the contents of Verse 23:14 in technical terms far superior to those used by the medical profession at present.  But no one in the 7th century would be able to grasp a thing.  Even the existing articulation of Verse 23:14 might have been hard for the Meccan pagans to understand at that time when knowledge of the fetus and its development was almost nil within all communities of the world.



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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2018, 06:19:13 am »



Very important additional points Sister Zeynab.  Thank you.

I've also observed that the scientific aspects which are elucidated and proven in the Noble Quran are specifically picked by Islamophobes for the purpose of refuting them by mentioning their own (often intentional) incorrect theories only for the purpose of refutation.





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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 06:22:37 am »




I've also observed that the scientific aspects which are elucidated and proven in the Noble Quran are specifically picked by Islamophobes for the purpose of refuting them by mentioning their own (often intentional) incorrect theories only for the purpose of refutation.

O yes ..... they always do that ....

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