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Were messengers raised among the jinn? (6:130) Al-Anam

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Ruhi_Rose
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« on: July 17, 2019, 11:08:53 am »



 BismEm


"O ye assembly of the jinn and humankind! Came there not unto you messengers of your own who recounted unto you My tokens and warned you of the meeting of this your Day?" (6:130) Al-Anam.


As-Salam Alaykum dear everyone.  When Allah Almighty addresses this Verse to humans as well as jinn and mentions "messengers of your own" .... does this mean messengers were sent by The Almighty to the jinn separately who belonged to the species of the jinn?

Your opinion would be very helpful.


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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2019, 11:18:37 am »



Walaykum Salam Sister Ruhi. 


To all our readers, please also read Sister Heba's response which is much more comprehensive.

I'll need to study more to answer that query.   Right now what comes to my mind is that there is not Quranic information that specifically discusses about messengers who were of the jinn.  What is confirmed by Quranic verses is that the Messengers to the jinn were from among humans (reference Surah Al-Jinn Verses 1 & 2, Surah Al-Ahqaf Verses 29 to 32).   Referring to Verse 130 of Surah Al-An`am: “Oh you assembly of the jinn and humankind! Came there not unto you Messengers of your own…”

Reading the above Verse, one may wonder if prophets came among the community of jinn as well, that is, prophets who were jinn not humans.  This is the aspect I need to study more.  In the Arabic language in accordance with Arabic grammar, humans addressed along with any other species refer specifically to humans.  The term "mankind" in the Quran refer to both genders. According to similar use of Arabic grammar, it's possible that in Verse 6:130, jinn are included with humankind but the messengers sent by Allah Almighty are humans (men) only.

Thus, at this point I don't know of any messengers of the jinn species that came to the jinn.  Rather, the jinn listened to the Quran recited by the Final Messenger and subsequently they conveyed the Divine Message to other jinn of their community.  This is precisely what we understand from the Noble Quran.   And only Allah knows best.

"Say (O Muhammad): It is revealed unto me that a company of the Jinn gave ear, and they said: Lo! we have heard a marvellous Qur'an,  (72:1) Al-Jinn.

Which guides unto righteousness, so we believe in it and we ascribe no partner unto our Rab."  (72:2)  Al-Jinn. 


"And when We inclined toward you (Muhammad) certain of the jinn, who wished to hear the Qur'an and, when they were in its presence, said: Give ear! and, when it was finished, turned back to their people, warning.   (46:29) Al-Ahqaf.

"They said: O our people!  Indeed! we have heard a scripture which has been revealed after Moses, confirming that which was before it, guiding unto the truth and a right road.  (46:30 Al-Ahqaf.

"O our people! respond to Allah's summoner and believe in Him. He will forgive you some of your sins and guard you from a painful doom.  (46:32)  Al-Ahqaf.

"And whoso responds not to Allah's summoner he can nowise escape in the earth, and he has no protecting friends instead of Him. Such are in error manifest."  (46:32)  Al-Ahqaf.



NOTE (Repeat):   Please also read Sister Heba's analysis below in this thread which provides wider information.  
N.Truth Seeker, Sept.17th 2021 ..
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2019, 11:24:37 am »



Plenty of thanks for your opinion dear brother. 

Btw, according to Hadithers, even the jinn who met the Prophet (pbuh) should be called sahabas.  Ibn Hajar says that those jinn who's names are known must be recognized as sahabas.  Although the Noble Quran confirms that some segments of the jinn met the Prophet (pbuh) and heard the recitation of the Final Message, the Quran does not mention the names of any jinn nor does it say anything about recognizing them as sahabas.


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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 11:26:55 am »



Exactly.  The Quran does not say anything of that sort.   This entire 'sahaba' culture is entirely from hadith.
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 11:27:57 am »



That's right ...... ..
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2019, 12:29:52 pm »




A point I was wondering about, have the jinn compiled the Quran for their reference?  Otherwise, if they want recourse to the Quran for guidance, what do they do?  Of course nothing can be confirmed in this regard as the Noble Quran does not mention anything on this aspect either.  But I was just wondering ....


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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2019, 12:40:37 pm »



@ Sis Zeynab ..  interesting question which only Allah Almighty can confirm.  However, in my opinion I think it shouldn't be difficult for the jinn to compile the Quranic Surahs for their guidance.   Jinn keep penetrating, probing and sniffing everywhere and seemingly quite easily.  It's an aspect that makes them different from humans.   That's how sometimes their presence also becomes known/visible to us, often referred to as the 'paranormal.'  What is confirmed to us in the Quran is that the jinn community does know of the presence of the Quran and many of its contents.



 
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2019, 12:42:46 pm »



Right Sister.
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2021, 03:57:36 pm »




(Who was created first, humans or jinn?)




Right now what comes to my mind is that there is not Quranic information that specifically discusses about messengers who were of the jinn  .....  In the Arabic language in accordance with Arabic grammar, humans addressed along with any other species refer specifically to humans.  The term "mankind" in the Quran refer to both genders. According to similar use of Arabic grammar, it's possible that in Verse 6:130, jinn are included with humankind but the messengers sent by Allah Almighty are humans (men) only.



As-Salam Alaikum dear all.  Sorry for coming to this thread after more than two years.   I had missed it earlier, saw it recently and did some additional research alongside what I already knew on this topic.

I understand Brother TS’ perspective and in many aspects of understanding the Noble Quran it is correct.  Brother has a point, in that, the Noble Quran does not spell out in so many words describing where and which messengers belonged to the species of the jinn;  and that rule of written Arabic of including jinn with humans can also be applied.  However, there is another different and very logical concept too which tells us that in V.6:130 where Allah Almighty addresses the jinn and humankind stating the expression “messengers of your own” does refer to sending messengers separately to the two communities – jinn and humankind – and those messengers sent to the community of jinn were also jinn themselves.

The source of the concept that messengers were sent to the jinn as to humans are Verses 15:26-27 of Surah Al-Hijr.  It’s a Quranic source and thus totally reliable and indisputable.   Quoting those Verses of Surah Al-Hijr:

"And We did certainly create man out of clay from an altered black mud.  And the jinn We created before from scorching fire."  (15:26-27).

Therefore in regard to time and chronology, the above Verses of Surah Al-Hijr confirm that Allah Almighty created the jinn before He created humankind.  Secondly, this is also proven from the Quranic evidence that Iblees (Satan), who is also of the jinn (created of fire), was already present when Allah Almighty created the first human, Adam (as) which led to Iblees’ rebellion and banishment (reference Verses 15:26-42).  This very important incident further supports Verses 15:26-27 that jinn were created before humans. 

Up to this point everything is established in conformity with the Noble Quran.   Allah Almighty does not categorically specify any other details on this subject, nothing that I can recall.  But ethically and logically there are certain other rationalizations from traditional sources that corroborate the Divine assertion in Verses 15:26-27.   

Allah Almighty has made it very clear in the Quran that Iblees is of the jinn.  Iblees was never of the angels as wrongly claimed by altered Christianity calling him a "fallen angel."  Angels have been created by Allah Almighty in a way that they are ordained only to obey Him.  Angels are incapable of being disobedient to the commands / orders of Allah.  But jinn, like humans, can be disobedient as was Iblees.

Following is the perspective of our jurists.  Some of their views are supported by Quranic contents, some are not stated in the Quran but can be true in accordance with Quranic logic and principles, while certain other opinions of the jurists might be extra-Quranic which also not much in agreement with Quranic values.   Thus, be discerning as you read.

The assumption of our jurists is that prior to humans in very, very ancient times, Allah Almighty created an entire society of jinn living here on earth.   As we know, the jinn are still living in this world at present.   In those ancient times before humans, these jinn were given the responsibility by The Almighty to recognize Him and to worship Him only, same as the responsibility given to humans later.  This aspect is certainly confirmed in the Quran .. "I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me."  51:56  Ad-Dhariyat.   Whenever Allah bestows responsibility on His creation, He also sends messengers to them to inform them of the right path and the relevance of Divine Guidance.  Therefore, The Almighty sent to the  community of jinn, messengers of their own who were also jinn.  Later on, came the creation of Adam (as) who was the first human messenger.  According to traditions, when Allah Almighty announced that He was creating Adam (as) as a khalifa or vicegerent  in the earth, Iblees thought this new creation would also be of the jinn.  When he came to know that it was not a jinn but a human, he was very disappointed and rebelled against Allah The Almighty.  The contents in this paragraph tallies with Quranic information as well as Quranic logic and is certainly right.

Jinn, as Allah has confirmed are made of fire, while humans are created of mud. 

In regard to this, the jurists presume that since the jinn are made of fire they are temperamentally inclined to be more strong-headed, quick tempered and impatient compared to humans.  Consequently, in ancient times prior to humans, the competition and quarrels within the ambitious community of jinn became rampant.  This is an intrinsic part of the nature of jinn, always striving to challenge one another.    As we see, such an attitude is largely seen among humans too but probably more rampant within the jinn.  In accordance with Quranic information on the pride and rebellion of Iblees, this assessment of our jurists is very correct.

Then comes the aspect of piety or transgression among the jinn.   It has been confirmed in the Quran that some jinn are righteous while some are unrighteous.

“Say, (O Muhammad), ‘It has been revealed to me that a group of the jinn listened and said, 'Indeed, we have heard an amazing Qur'an. It guides to the right course, and we have believed in it. And we will never associate with our Rab anyone.’ “ (72:1-2)

These, mentioned in the above Verses of Surah Al-Jinn, are the pious jinn who listened to the Quran with the desire to follow it.

In continuation to the perception of the jurists, messengers of the jinn began coming to them on earth in prehistoric times and (as in the case of humans) many jinn messengers were rejected or killed by other jinn who disagreed with them.   There was also widespread corruption within the community of jinn (again something we find in the human community too).   It is confirmed in the Noble Quran that Iblees belongs to the jinn.  The assumption of jurists is that initially Iblees was a notable jinn who was pious and worshiped Allah.  Furthermore, traditions mention that as long as Iblees was obedient, The Almighty allowed him to come in the company of the malaika (angels) and Iblees was granted permission by Allah Almighty  to destroy the corrupt jinn on earth.  This aspect is not in the Quran and only Allah knows the extent of its authenticity.

As the Quran confirms, the jinn are very swift, in a way impossible for humans to mimic.  Reference V.27:39-40 about the jinn working for Prophet Solomon (pbuh).

"A stalwart of the jinn said: I will bring it to you before you can rise from your place. Indeed! I verily am strong and trusty for such work.  One with whom was knowledge of the Scripture said: I will bring it to you before your gaze returns unto you. And when he saw it set in his presence, (Solomon) said: This is of the bounty of my Rab, that He may try me whether I give thanks or am ungrateful."  27:39-40  An-Naml.

Moreover, the jinn could penetrate into various parts of the sky, but their access was restricted only up to those boundaries of the heavens that Allah Almighty permitted.   They could not go beyond the borders not permitted by The Almighty.

"And verily in the heaven We have set mansions of the stars, and We have beautified it for beholders.  And We have guarded it from every outcast devil,   Save him who steals the hearing, and them does a clear flame pursue."   15:16-18   Surah Al-Hijr.

Facts stated in Verses 27:39-40 and 15:16-18 prove that jinn can be so swift that they can, most likely, literally fly.   

It is assumed that  jinn have very long lives, much longer than humans, perhaps thousands or millions or billions of years.   But the precise duration of their life span is known to Allah alone.

The exact period of time when the society of jinn existed on earth before humans is known only to Allah.  But quite definitely it was the primordial stage or earliest of times.  While it is important for us to know about it, presently we need to focus on the world where both jinn and humans reside together.  Only Allah knows for how long jinn and humans have been contemporaneous, but surely it’s been so for a very long time and will be  until the end of times, if Allah wills. 

In various Verses of the Noble Quran, jinn and humans are mentioned as contemporaneous portraying that both these creations have been existing in this world through the annals of history for a long, long time ..

"Say: Verily, though mankind and the jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another."  17:88 Al-Isra.

…. and Allah has stated that jinn are the older community.   

Following is a Youtube video on the history of jinn prior to humans which covers several of the points I have stated in this post.  It contains information from the Noble Quran as well as traditions.  Discern as you watch as to which information are directly from the Quran and which ones are in compliance with the broader Quranic guidelines and rationale.







 
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2021, 08:47:06 pm »



Walaykum as-Salam sister Heba.   I'm really glad you posted this perspective and as always, very skillfully analysed.  After reading your piece it certainly struck me that I wasn't focused as widely as you.  I mainly got my standpoint from Verse 29 of Surah Al-Ahqaf:

"And when We inclined toward you (Muhammad) certain of the jinn, who wished to hear the Qur'an and, when they were in its presence, said: Give ear! and, when it was finished, turned back to their people, warning.   (46:29) Al-Ahqaf.

This Verse conveys the fact that the jinn approached a human messenger for guidance.  And with no specific information in the Noble Quran of the presence of messengers from the jinn, I presumed that as ordained by The Almighty, the jinn got information about Divine guidance from human messengers and that was generalized in Verse 6:130 with the expression "messengers of your own" ...

But what did ring a bell after I read your post was that since the jinn were created prior to humans, and that could have been thousands or millions of years before humankind, obviously for that stretch of time those jinn would require Divine Revelations for guidance because jinn, like humans, are prone to err.   And Allah Almighty never punishes anyone until He has sent His warning.  Alhudmulilah.

"We never punish until we have sent a messenger."  17:15  Al-Isra.

That makes it logically certain that those jinn created long before humans must have received Divine Revelations through messengers of their own who were also of the jinn so that the community of jinn prior to humans could be held responsible for their deeds. 

Moreover, other points which you elucidated are also supported by the quoted Verses of Surah Al-Hijr and Al-Anam.   And the quoted Verse of Surah Al-Ahqaf provides evidence that the jinn did approach the final human messenger (pbuh) for listening to the Quran.  But I understand this does not signify that the jinn never had messengers of their own in the distant past. 

Watched the video.  Very interesting one though requires discernment as you suggested.

I will mark my post as one of the two opinions.  The wider perspective that must be read is yours.
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2021, 09:13:22 pm »




But what did ring a bell after I read your post was that since the jinn were created prior to humans, and that could have been thousands or millions of years before humankind, obviously for that stretch of time those jinn would require Divine Revelations for guidance because jinn, like humans, are prone to err.   And Allah Almighty never punishes anyone until He has sent His warning.  Alhudmulilah.

"We never punish until we have sent a messenger."  17:15  Al-Isra.

That makes it logically certain that those jinn created long before humans must have received Divine Revelations through messengers of their own who were also of the jinn so that the community of jinn prior to humans could be held responsible for their deeds. 

Exactly, that's the real point.


....   And the quoted Verse of Surah Al-Ahqaf provides evidence that the jinn did approach the final human messenger (pbuh) for listening to the Quran.  But I understand this does not signify that the jinn never had messengers of their own in the distant past. 

Right on again, that's precisely how I understand it too. 

This aspect can be grasped correctly only when we put all the relevant Verses quoted in this thread together .. starting from Verse 26 of Surah Al Ahqaf, Verses 26 and 27 of Surah Al-Hijr, Verse 130 of Surah Al-Anam and Verse 15 of Surah Al-Isra.   Subhan'Allah. 

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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2021, 09:14:26 pm »



Correct Sister Heba.   Get your point fully.
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2021, 09:22:25 pm »





A point I was wondering about, have the jinn compiled the Quran for their reference?  Otherwise, if they want recourse to the Quran for guidance, what do they do?  Of course nothing can be confirmed in this regard as the Noble Quran does not mention anything on this aspect either.  But I was just wondering ....


Sis, for the jinn it's no problem getting a copy of the Quran just as easily as we do.  They can either buy it or procure it from a source that distributes the Noble Quran.  Remember, jinn live in this world as we do, they move around as we do and from what we know, there isn't any recognizable difference between the outward appearances of jinn and humans.  Thus they know where to go to find what they're looking for and it's not difficult for them to access places which we can access.  And Allah knows best. After all, in regard to Verse 41:29 of Surah Al-Ahqaf which mentions of the jinn approaching the Prophet (pbuh) when he was reciting the Noble Quran, those jinn came to hear what they wished to listen and apparently no one felt their unusual presence.  Only Allah Almighty knew it which He revealed in Verse 41:29.
 
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2021, 09:31:35 pm »



Another good point sister Heba.
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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2021, 09:40:44 pm »



Load of thanks for your detailed & comprehensive analysis and the video posted, Sister Heba.  Brother TS' opinion that goes up to a certain extent because he had missed out on Verses 26 and 27 of Surah Al-Hijr.  The question that comes to my mind though only Allah  would know best .. did any jinn messengers come to the community of jinn after the final human messenger, which is, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?
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