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Horses, donkeys, mules should not to be consumed as food


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N. Truth Seeker
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« on: September 30, 2019, 06:09:16 pm »



 BismEm

AsSalam Alaykum everyone.   A colleague of mine at our community center on discussion day brought up this topic and I thought it's worth sharing here.  Indeed I see it as significant Quranic information .. and all Quranic info is significant. 

In many non-Muslim countries they find nothing wrong in consuming horse or donkey meat.  One such country is Germany I know for sure.  Of course in countries like China, Japan, Korea etc.  they even eat dog meat.  Disgusting!     All of these violations arise when the community has no concept of Halal and Haram (permissible and forbidden). 

There may also be various Muslims (Quran alone followers like Free Minders as well as Hadithists) who may consider it's okay to eat horse or donkey meat because the Quran does not spell it out directly as Haram.   However, few aspects may not be directly spelled out in the Quran as Haram or Halal, but they are directly alluded to as either Haram or Halal.   One such example we can find in Verses 16:5 and 16:8 of Surah Al-Nahl of the Glorious Quran.

"And the cattle has He created, whence you have warm clothing and uses, and whereof you eat;"    (16:5)  Al-Nahl. 

"And horses and mules and donkeys (has He created) that you may ride them, and for adornment."    (16:8)  Al-Nahl


Concentrate carefully and reflect just a bit on the above Verses. 

In Verse 16:5, Allah Almighty mentions cattle in connection with traveling and consumption of food.    In Verse 16:8, The Almighty mentions horses, mules and donkeys in connection with traveling and appreciation of their presence.  There is no mention nor reference of using these animals as food. 

A comparison of these two Verses can be taken as a confirmation that while cattle can be consumed as food, horses, donkeys and mules cannot or certainly should not, unless one is driven to it, in times of emergency. 

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Zeynab
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2019, 07:36:28 pm »




Walaikum Salaam.  Thank you and to your colleague for the accuracy and logic of your perception, dear brother.

All animals (or of living creatures) that we Muslims use as food confirmed as Halal contain references as such in the Noble Quran.    But there are no such references for horses, donkey and mules.   And of course, pigs are categorically stated as Haram for food. 

Along with cattle (which basically refers to livestock for food i.e. cow, oxen, sheep and goats), reference as Halal for food is also contained in Surah Al-Hajj concerning camels.

"And the camels and cattle We have appointed for you as among the symbols of Allah ; for you therein is good. So mention the name of Allah upon them when lined up [for sacrifice]; and when they are [lifeless] on their sides, then eat from them and feed the needy and the beggar. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may be grateful."  22:36 - Al-Hajj.

Also, while most translators have referred to camels in this Verse, the Arabic term "budn"  is meant to refer to cows, oxen or camels for sacrifice by pilgrims.   Thus the standard translation of sahih international translates it as "camels and cattle" .....

The meat of poultry as food is referred as one of the eatables for the dwellers of Jannah.  "And flesh of fowls that they desire."  (56:21).  Obviously any eatable permissible in Jannah will not be prohibited here.  However, very definitely in my opinion, such delicacies in Jannah are obtained without slaughter as we need to be aware, that is Paradise (Jannah), not earth.  A matter of common sense once again. 

Of course, fish as Halal is stated in various Quranic Verses.

There are NO Quranic inferences that eating of horses, mules and donkeys can be the norm.    The concept being, as I perceive, we as humans are permitted by The Almighty to eat cattle, sheep, camels, poultry and fish (excluding carnivore sea life and the reptilian species ... since blood and carcass are forbidden in the Quran.)  All of the permissibles for food either stated or inferred in the Noble Quran should be enough to satisfy human desire and hunger for food outside the boundaries of fruits, vegetables, lentils and desserts.  We cannot and should not go about killing any or every living being we fancy to satisfy our ravenous appetite.


 
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2019, 10:01:13 pm »



Salams and Subhan'Allah.   That's informative with spot on references from the Noble Quran. 

As usual hadith has its unfounded narratives on donkey meat with NO references from the Quran .... only forged traditional stories.  According to hadith the meat of wild donkeys is halal but consuming domestic donkeys as food is haram.  Ref Bukhari hadith #5492 narrator liar Abu Qatadah, also Bukhari hadith #5520 narrator another liar Jaabir and Bukhari hadith #5527 narrator yet another gossip monger Abu Salabah.   We totally ignore these stories.  Not only does it have NO compatibility with the Quran, it has no compatibility with common sense either.


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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2019, 10:15:47 pm »



Alhumdulilah and shokran sisters for the helpful input.    From what I know, among our different Muslim groups, there is lot of confusion on what types of seafood are Halal and Haram.  Would welcome some bit of feedback on how to determine this issue with possible guidelines from the Quran.
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2019, 11:38:27 pm »



Reflection on Verses 16:5 and 16:8 was superb observation.  Mash'Allah.

Brother TS, as we all know fish is Halal with direct evidence from the Noble Quran. 

"And it is He who subjected the sea for you to eat from it tender meat and to extract from it ornaments which you wear. And you see the ships plowing through it, and [He subjected it] that you may seek of His bounty; and perhaps you will be grateful."  (16:14)  An-Nahl. 

In my opinion the reference "tender meat" refers to the standard types of fishes cooked in the kitchens of households, eateries and restaurants such as pomfret, tuna, mackerel, haddock, cod, carp, salmon, sardine, herring and several more if you check the Halal list of fishes.    The ones I named are definitely Halal even from the viewpoint of all different Muslim groups and schools.  Also in my opinion, these are ENOUGH for seafood lovers to relish. 

But marine life is vast with many plants, animals and other organisms living in salt water (sea or ocean) and brackish water (near estuaries).

While most decisions on Halal and Haram picking seafood are subject to one's personal opinion and thoughts, I would personally exclude some river or seafood (a similar connotation as Sister Zeynab mentioned  "excluding carnivore sea life and the reptilian species ... since blood and carcass are forbidden in the Quran)."  Reference Verses 2:173 and 5:3, in addition to pork and foods dedicated to false deities, blood (Arabic word "wal-dama" in the Noble Quran) and animals that die of natural or violent causes such as death by strangulation, beating, falling from a height or fatally injured/killed by another animal are also Haram.  Since blood is Haram, I would personally avoid its by-products too.  Those animals or various species of living beings with fangs that devour other creatures including humans, consume the blood of what they devour.  So, in my opinion, I would not want to consume those animals as food or let's say the 'yucky' element.  Everyone in our family and extended family agrees.   I reiterate, this is simply our personal opinion and there are no guarantees that anyone's personal opinion is flawless.  Final Judgement comes from Allah only.   

Since the Quran does not go into details to define precisely what types of sea life are Halal and Haram, we cannot dub any seafood as Haram, including lobster and shrimp.   

"Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers .."  5:96 Al-Maidah. 

Thus, it's all about personal likes and dislikes, choices and one's own opinion.  While everyone is entitled to adhere to the types of seafood they wish to eat or avoid, no one is entitled to make a fatwa or law out of it with universal endorsements of Halal or Haram.  That is only up to Allah Almighty.    While my husband, children and me do not at all like lobster and shrimp, and we'll vomit-scream at the idea of eating crocodile or shark, we do not have the authority to officially declare these as Haram.  Just terribly distasteful, disgusting and yucky as the way we feel.

If you try to survey this aspect, the notions of each sect and sub-sect of Muslims are different.  It's not possible to find a standard decision or a standard list of seafood that can be officialized and accepted by all Muslim groups as Halal.  Nor any standard list for Haram.   As I already referred, that's okay.  Everyone has a right to their opinion, just as long as they don't make hard & fast rules with one side waging battles and firebrand fatwas against another for eating "haram" sea food.   

From what we hear, Shiia Muslims usually don't consider fishes without scales as  Halal, such as lobster.   Among Sunni Muslims (viz Hanafi school), as we've learned, all fishes except those with tentacles (like squid fish and of course shark etc.) are Halal.   These are their personal views and choices, so it doesn't bother us just as we make our own picks in seafood.



 
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2019, 11:56:43 pm »



Thank you so very much for your time and articulation Sister Heba.  This was a very, very helpful clarification for me.
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2019, 11:59:31 pm »



Hugely informative for me as well .......
In any case, in my family, except for tuna we're hardly into seafood.  Just tuna, that too not very often.
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2019, 12:04:27 am »



Yes, tuna is the best in seafood.  The other thing my mom makes great is fish cake ..  and that's with pomfret fish which even the most fastidious Muslim groups in our community see as Halal. 
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2019, 12:07:45 am »



Yeah, yeah!  Smiley  pomfret, I recall that fish name, my late grandpa loved it.  He often relished deep fried pomfret ...... fried with breadcrumbs.

And how does your mom make fish cake with pomfret?  I'm truly eager to know  Smiley Smiley 


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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2019, 12:24:46 am »

 

Smiley  yes sister Ruhi.  Fried pomfret is also wonderful.  I wouldn't know too many details as my culinary skills aren't the best, but I've seen my mother in the kitchen cooking lot of stuff so do know a bit. 

Her first step is to prepare the pomfret.  Marinate it with lemon juice, table vinegar, and some garlic & ginger paste for 2 hours.  She keeps it in a large alu tray, and tilts the tray by placing it over the corner of some other crockery like a plate or a bowl.  This helps the water from the fish to drain away and with the help of the marinating spices too, the fishy smell gets completely eradicated.  Throw away the drained fish water.   My family just cannot eat fish if it smells even a bit   Undecided

Then, add some more spices of your choice to the marinated pomfret fillets .. not sure exactly what spices but can ask my mom and let you know.  In any case, I know for sure that she adds salt, pepper and HP sauce for basting.  Then fry them.  After they're are fried, mash with a fork. In case you find any little bones, remove them.  But pomfret should be bone-free.  Mix with equal quantity of salted mashed potatoes.  Mix well.   Shape into rounds, dip in beaten eggs, roll onto breadcrumbs and deep fry until golden brown.   Alhumdulilah, really nice.

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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2019, 12:31:51 am »



Wallahi brother .. this sounds like a professional great !!  You explained it quite well.  I followed it okay and pretty sure my folks are gonna love it.  That tilting of the tray with marinated fish fillets sounds brilliant idea. We too hate fish that tastes fishy Cheesy  Shukriya akhi !!

Allah bless.


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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2019, 12:38:29 am »



Welcome Sister Ruhi ......
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2019, 12:40:04 am »



Mash'Allah, excellent pomfret fish-cakes from brother TS' kitchen Smiley
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2019, 12:41:44 am »



Shokran Sister Zeynab.  So kind of you. 

If the MV team were in the same country/city as me, my mom and sis would be sending you guys food everyday. 
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2019, 12:42:50 am »



So kind dear brother.  InshAllah some day, if not in this world then in the next.  Ameen ya Rab.
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