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Does sleeping or dozing annul wudu?


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Author Topic: Does sleeping or dozing annul wudu?  (Read 556 times)
Ruhi_Rose
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« on: October 27, 2019, 07:47:15 am »



Salams all.   The other day a brother at our community centre was pretty angry.   He said he went to his neigborhood masjid for Fajr  (it's a small masjid) and there were a few people only.  The person who was supposed to lead the prayer (imam) arrived quite early and while waiting for Fajr time to start, he dozed off in a chair, maybe for 15 or 20 minutes.  Then woke up;  by that time about ten or twelve people had arrived;  and then the imam led the Fajr prayers.  So, that brother began bellowing that the imam's wudu was invalidated because he fell asleep "resting his back against the chair."  According to him (paraphrasing his talk), if you doze off sitting upright in a chair or couch for a few minutes it's okay.  But if you sleep even for a very short while resting your back, wudu breaks.  Complete nonsense, I know.   My actual query is, from where do these buggers get such comical ideas?   Is there a hadith or a gossipy fatwa which says this or anything similar?


Related topic:

Does fart invalidate wudu?


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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2019, 07:59:32 am »



Wa'Salam sis.    That brother-bugger is one of the many crazies.  After performing a full wudu, one can doze off to sleep for whatever stretch of time, wudu does not get invalidated, unless they have a sexual dream and the body reacts to it, causing pollution.  Needless to say, farting in sleep does not invalidate the wudu.  So, upon awakening, whether or not you recall farting during your sleep, doesn't matter.  Either way wudu is intact.   Of course, resting your back against the back of the chair or sleeping upright it totally insignificant.  

One simply needs to view the Quran as the Sole Criterion and use one's common sense.  The only cause for invalidating wudu after waking from sleep would be sexual pollution.  If that happens one will know it.  Other than that, whether one farts, laughs, snores or screams seeing a nightmare or even experiences sleep paralysis ..... doesn't matter.   Wudu stays fine.

I would surmise that the source of such madness as related by that weird brother is partly hadith and partly gossip. 


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Ruhi_Rose
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2019, 08:11:06 am »



 LaaughingAway


Exactly sis, that's precisely what I had in mind too.

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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2019, 08:56:40 am »




   ..........

One simply needs to view the Quran as the Sole Criterion and use one's common sense.  The only cause for invalidating wudu after waking from sleep would be sexual pollution.  If that happens one will know it.  Other than that, whether one farts, laughs, snores or screams seeing a nightmare or even experiences sleep paralysis ..... doesn't matter.   Wudu stays fine.    ...........   
 

 HysLaugh     Thumbsup    Absolutely correct.


Btw, that bit about resting the back or sleeping upright stuff comes from a mix of hadith n fatwa. 

Hear this ..........

I read at Islamqa  that according to the assertion "of the four imams and the majority of scholars, if the sleep overwhelms then ablution is nullified, otherwise not."   By "overwhelms" they mean deep sleep.   

However, a hadith by Anas contradicts it saying "the sahabah of Allah’s Messenger slept, then got up and offered salah without making ablution." (Sunan Tirmidhi).   He didn't say which sahabah or perhaps he means himself, neither does he mention whether it was a light sleep or REM sleep. 

Both above views are illogical with no analysis.  Can be trashed. 

Then, Dars Tirmidhi chimes in to contribute more nonsense on this topic.  'Dars Tirmidhi' is the explanatory notes of Tirmidhi hadith by a mufti named Taqi Usmani.  No idea who he is.   In his book, page #294-295 v1 of Dars Tirmidhi, he says (funny if not hilarious)  “The preferred view of the Ahnaaf is that until one's buttocks cling to the place of sitting then his wudhu will not break. If this clinging to the place of sitting is not found for example, by lying down on a bed, or by lying on ones side, similarly if a person was sleeping by leaning on something, and his sleep was so overwhelming that if you were to move the thing which he was leaning on, he would fall down, then in these situations his wudhu will break.”   What he's trying to say by beating around the bush in this inarticulate manner is that wudu gets annulled unconditionally if the sleep is deep.  I completely disagree.    I also do not know which Tirmidhi hadith he's trying to explain, but that doesn't matter.  That hadith would be no dynamic discourse for sure, it would be just as silly as Taqi Usmani's commentary.

Then again comes a fatwa by Taimiyah:  "The kind of sleep in which a person is uncertain as to whether he broke wind or not does not invalidate wudoo’, because purity is established and certain, and cannot be removed by uncertainty."   (Ibn Taymiyah - Majmoo al-fatwa 21/394).     He is simply referring to fart because Hadith hates fart claiming it breaks wudu.  This is the only point which the fatwa givers and so-called scholars keep harping on - the fart issue.  They've decided to give their disciples a break by declaring that if they cannot remember whether or not they passed wind during their sleep, they can give themselves the benefit of the doubt by assuming they didn't pass wind and keep their wudu valid.   But farting doesn't invalidate wudu at all, sleep or no sleep.  So this point can also be discarded altogether.
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Ruhi_Rose
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2019, 09:06:43 am »



Ahhhh !!  Cheesy    Now I catch where that crazy brother got the concept of wudu getting invalidated if one 'rests one's back.'   He meant that same bullshit of "overwhelming" sleep or deep sleep.   This rubbish is detailed by Taqi Usmani who hints that sleeping on the bed invalidates wudu while on the chair it doesn't .... the former indicating  "overwhelming" sleep and the latter, light sleep.   These folks don't only speak nonsense but nor do they communicate coherently. 

Many thanksbrother TS.   I now get the picture of this needless wrangling among hadithers.


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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2019, 09:11:02 am »



Very welcome sister.
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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2019, 09:12:33 am »




 Grin Grin Grin   That Dars Tirmidhi commentary is hysterical ......
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2019, 09:18:11 am »




lol yes.  Thus once again the fatwa givers contradiction.  One version says deep sleep breaks wudu, fart or no fart.  Other one says only farting during sleep breaks wudu.  Both wrong.

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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2019, 09:19:59 am »



Yeah, that's the stupid wrangling in a nutshell.
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2019, 09:41:27 am »


 
Cheesy  interesting thread with useful clarifications.   

And the only other time one needs to perform wudu after waking up is after a whole night's sleep of 7, 8 or 9 hours.   Even if one wakes up with an unpolluted body, one often doesn't feel too clean at that time, that is, the face feels greasy, eyes feel the need to be washed, mouth feels sour.


   
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2019, 09:45:49 am »




And the only other time one needs to perform wudu after waking up is after a whole night's sleep of 7, 8 or 9 hours.   Even if one wakes up with an unpolluted body, one often doesn't feel too clean at that time, that is, the face feels greasy, eyes feel the need to be washed, mouth feels sour.
  


O yes, of course.  That's taken for granted.    This thread only refers to siestas or any additional sleep or rest excluding the regular nighttime sleep.

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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2019, 09:47:24 am »



Very correct Sister ......
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Ruhi_Rose
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2019, 09:50:31 am »



No sis, it doesn't include the regular nighttime sleep.  Sorry, I should have clarified that point in my first post.
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2019, 08:00:01 pm »




......  Sorry, I should have clarified that point in my first post.


Not at all Sister Ruhi.  Your first post is already quite clear.   The response of Sis Heba also made it very clear the kind of sleep referred to .. she explained it perfectly, interestingly and honestly and I stand right there.  Br. TS' input helped greatly to understand the sources of those funny theories about sleeping positions the traditionalists presume invalidates wudu.   We know exactly what our thread is referring to.   I added that point separating nighttime sleep for better understanding of newcomer-guest readers who study our works, to make sure they don't misunderstand our discussion.

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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2019, 08:03:20 pm »



Spot on Sis ..
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