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FALSE hadith on beating children


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Ruhi_Rose
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« on: December 30, 2019, 01:38:12 am »



Salams dear everyone.


Utterly FALSE nonsense uttered by narrator and compiled by whoever they were!

Narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Hang your whip where the members of the household can see it, for that will discipline them.”  (So-called "sahih" al-Jaami).


Another one says:   Narrated from Amr ibn Shuayb from his father that his grandfather said:
“Teach your children to pray when they are seven years old, and hit them if they do not pray when they are 10 years old.."   Abu Dawood (459) and Ahmad (6650), declared 'saheeh' by al-Albani in al-Irwa (247). 



These hadith buggers are prize winning liars and crooks  Angry   bringing my blood to a rolling boil!  That's the only thing real & true about them.   Let me talk a bit on this hogwash spewed by the enemies of Islam. 

Concerning the first hadith on displaying the whip, Hadith adherents have claimed it does not carry a literal meaning.  They say that the whip alludes to "shining light that illuminates the spirit of Islamic principles concerning child development."   According to some Ahmad al-Anbari, reportedly a civil officer in the early Abbasid period, the whip is supposed to be a sign of "discipline."  They have confirmed these unsightly metaphors as 'sahih' on the basis of the bizzare "science" called isnad, and have also quoted a Tirmidhi hadith narrated by Anas bin Malik which does not allow harsh treatment of children.  But  they have still not been able to give any reasons why Abbas spoke such a big LIE about our beloved Prophet (pbuh) whose very gentle nature was well-known and why are there so many contradicting ahadith expressing opposite contents. 

Replying to the second hadith on beating 10-year-olds if they don't pray, Sheikh Kutty has denied that this isn't done in Islam, and indeed it's never done which we know, but he won't say that this top-notch nonsense is a total lie to slander our Prophet (pbuh) and a false babbling.  To protect the bad reputation of hadith narrators, our "scholars" won't outright denounce their fake narrations and instead allow them to carry out their defamation of the Prophet (pbuh) until some reader cites it and brings it up as a question .... even then they keep beating around the bush but never condemn such deceitful narrators and compilers as liars.

The truth-hating hadith lovers are so ashamed of such lies and their own gutlessness on confirming that these are forgeries, that they haven't even mentioned the sources of these rubbish-loads in definitive terms.   I had to search for them helter-skelter.


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Heba E. Husseyn
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2019, 01:54:57 am »



Another shocker, these two disgracefully forged ahadith to slander our Prophet (pbuh) are the brainkids of two mischief mongers, Abu Jaffar al-Tabari and Abu Abdullah al-Qurtubi.  According to these evil geniuses, those ahadith are supposed to be the explanations of Verse 66:6 Surah At-Tahreem, Verse 20:132 Surah Ta Ha, and Verse 26:214 Surah ash-Shuara.

Let me quote these three Quranic Verses as follows:

"O you who believe!  Ward off from yourselves and your families a Fire whereof the fuel is men and stones, over which are set angels strong, severe, who resist not Allah in that which He commands them, but do that which they are commanded."  66:6.  

"And enjoin upon your family worship, and be constant therein. We ask not of you a provision: We provided for you.   And the sequel is for righteousness."  20:132.

"And warn your tribe of near kindred,"   26:214.



After reading the above Verses, can anyone please tell me how those two hadiths on hanging a whip on the wall of your home and beating your 10-year-old kids for not offering salat can ever be taken as explanations of the three Quranic Verses quoted above?   Tabari is of course an infamous trouble-maker considering how he spun a senselessly malicious myth on Surah An-Najm which was cashed in by a similar fraudulent criminal of modern times, Salman Rushdi.  Additionally Abu Abdullah Qurtubi seems no less a crook for promoting this sort of complete misinterpretations of the Quran in the name of the Prophet (pbuh).  I don't know how any one can ever presume even for a minute that their intentions were straight.  Or even if any person insists on presuming that they were "well-meaning" (with which I disagree), how can jurists with such sub-standard quality of perception and speech be viewed as "scholars" by their followers?  Mind boggling.

Shame on these so-called imams! 


  
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2019, 02:03:26 am »


 
Angry   


There's not a single hadith, literally not a single, that has explained even a single Verse of the Quran correctly.   

The intent behind so-called hadith tafsirs (commentaries) of the Quran is only  added leverage to those false narrations by using not only the name of the Prophet (pbuh) but also the Verses of the Quran.




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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2019, 02:05:40 am »



Precisely sister, that's what they have been doing for several centuries.
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2019, 02:15:11 am »



Ya Allah!   I never even knew of these two terrible ahadith.   

Thank you sisters, for more information on the deceitful institution of hadith.

It's obvious that our jurist circles are cooking new sets of ahadith every decade or half a decade.  Our grandparents never knew the ones known to our parents.  Our parents had never heard of many of those ahadith we know at present.   In future we won't know of many ahadith which the next generation (who are now children) will know when they are adults.   This hadith writing has become an ongoing process, just like the altered bibles which they "update" every few years to suit human interest in every facet of life. 



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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2019, 02:21:24 am »




  .....

It's obvious that our jurist circles are cooking new sets of ahadith every decade or half a decade.  Our grandparents never knew the ones known to our parents.  Our parents had never heard of many of those ahadith we know at present.   In future we won't know of many ahadith which the next generation (who are now children) will know when they are adults.   This hadith writing has become an ongoing process, just like the altered bibles which they "update" every few years to suit human interest in every facet of life. 




Spot on sister.   The bungling that started centuries ago is passed on non-stop  within the jurist circles, periodically, until now.   The biggest tragedy is that this bungling is presenting itself as the face of Islam which couldn't be farther from the truth.

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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2019, 02:22:25 am »



Exactly  Cry
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2019, 02:01:24 pm »



Infuriating and crazy.  I too didn't know of these ahadith but knowing the characteristics of the Hadith institution, I'm not surprised.  Thank you sisters for the information.  And I so much agree with Sister Zeynab.  This institution adheres to an ongoing process of writing and rewriting every few years that has been coming along since the 8th century soon after the end of the Rashidun era.  No different from the Christians and Jews.    We can only be too, too thankful to The Almighty that He has protected the Sublime Quran for us and no one with corrupt intent can touch it.   It will remain original and pure until the Day of Judgement.   Ameen.

Woe unto Tabari and Qurtubi for grossly misinterpreting the clean and honest Verses of Surahs At-Tahreem, TaHa and Ash-Shu'ara.

To be honest without the slightest of hesitation, the Quran is all a true Muslim requires for genuine, overall guidance.   Allah says in the Quran “We did not leave anything out of this book," (6:38).    And, "My Rab neither errs nor forgets," (20:52) .. the reply of Prophet Moses (pbuh) to Pharaoh.  Unlike the heavily altered Old and New Testaments fraught with man-written stories, the Quran is the uncorrupted Divine Word confirming the revelation of all previous Divine Scriptures.   Allah Almighty confirms in the Quran, telling Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) to mention to the community "Say: For myself I have no power to benefit, nor power to hurt, save that which Allah wills. Had I knowledge of the Unseen, I should have abundance of wealth, and adversity would not touch me. I am but a warner, and a bearer of good tidings unto folk who believe."   The Almighty further confirms "We have not set you as a keeper over them, nor are you responsible for them."  (6:107).   And also,  "Say: (It is) the truth from the Rab of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve." 18:29.   The Almighty indicates clearly that He is sufficient to deal with disbelievers.  A disbeliever who persists in disbelief or misguidance is not the Prophet's (pbuh) problem after he has conveyed the Message of Allah.   How can anyone be ignorant or bigoted enough to claim and obstinately keep up that odious claim that the Quran isn't enough as a Guide when The Almighty categorically states "Perfected is the Word of your Rab in truth and justice."  6:115.   One of the final Verses of the Noble Quran which is the third Verse of Surah Maidah, the Truth of this Verse sweeps away the heart of every person endowed with genuine wisdom, declares plainly "This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam." (5:3).   Mark the Words "perfected" and "completed."  How much clearer do they want Allah to be to assert that the Quran is meant to be read and understood as an Independent Book.  It is NOT dependent on any other books or sources for its explanation nor has any aspect of Faith, life or legal issue been omitted in it.   After reading such an explicit and unambiguous confirmation, those who still continue to accept the human version with determination that the Quran isn't enough without Hadith are plagued with the same zealously obdurate spirit as were the idolaters of Makkah who refused to believe in Allah Almighty as the Only Creator and would believe in Him only if He was associated with false deities. 

Ambitious Muslims of later times engrossed in acquiring their worldly goals started a cycle of greed that led to autocracy better suited for the policy of the strong against the weak.   The strong and influential reflected, but negatively.  Their egocentric conclusion upheld that freedom of thought, if granted to humans, would result in corruption within the society.  They completely disregarded the Quranic Verse 17:84 where The Almighty grants permission of free thought  to everyone, quote "Say: Each one does according to his rule of conduct, and your Rab is Best Aware of him whose way is right."  17:84.    Many of our medieval jurists were responsible for blocking the path of positive reflections as emphasized in the Noble Quran again and again.  "(This is) a Scripture that We have revealed unto you, full of blessing, that they may ponder its revelations, and that men of understanding may reflect."  38:29  Surah Saad.  Also refer Investigation Before Belief containing many more Verses that encourage humans to think deeply and freely.  Whoever allows their free thoughts to drift the wrong way by falling into Satan's temptation and getting misguided, they only hurt their own souls and will have to face retribution on that Day.   

To make a long episode short, our medieval era boiled down to our wise Muslim intellects v/s. the not-too-wise religious jurists.   Even though all great Muslim intellects - and there were hundreds of them such as Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd, Al-Kindi and many more - during the rise and spread of the Islamic Renaissance categorically highlighted the importance of freedom as the ideal key to progress, unfortunately our 8th century religious jurists such as the founders of the four schools disagreed.  Imam Hanibali in particular disagreed profoundly to the extent that he considered human perception to be a dangerous "interpolation" or bid'ah.  There are reports that he refused to eat watermelon because there was no hadith on it and so he concluded the Prophet (pbuh) never ate it.  Such was his appalling logic. 

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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2019, 03:00:56 pm »



Pleasure reading your very well researched work, dear brother.  Thoroughly illuminating and I hope our readers take note of it too.

The medieval period defined as "wise Muslim intellects v/s. the not-too-wise religious jurists" is one of the most significant and real aspects of our history, the final straw that broke the camel's back.  Unfortunately it's the influence of the latter that pervades.    

Let's take a quick look at some very important historical dates, starting from the passing of the beloved Final Messenger (pbuh):

-  Death of the beloved Prophet (pbuh) 632 AD.
-  Death of Imam Ali ending the Rashidoon era (the four righteous Caliphs) in 661 AD.
-  Same year in 661 AD began the Ommayad rule its capital in Damashq (hereditary system of governance not indicated nor encouraged in the Quran) which lasted for the next 89 years or so until 750 AD.
-  Abbasid rule started 750 AD with Baghdad as its capital after overthrowing the Ommayads in Damascus.  Abbasid rule ended 1258, replaced by the Mamluks in Egypt.  
-  In 750 AD a small remnant of the Ommayads that left for Spain (Cordoba) began the Muslim rule in Spain in 756 AD though they continued to recognize Baghdad as the center of the Muslim rule for the next 300 years approximately until the Nassrids in Cordoba became independent of Baghdad.  Muslim rule in Spain (Al-Andalus) ended in 1492 after the violent takeover by Catholic fanatics, Isabella and Ferdinand.
-  Just for information, the Ottoman rule was founded in 1299 AD in Anatolia (Turkey) in the city of Bursa.  It ended 1923.

Around 750 AD was also the period of the start of Islamic Renaissance.  But something else started too to thwart it.

Having said that, let's check when the "imam" culture kicked in.

Hanafi -  born 700 AD  in Kufa. 
Malki  - born 711 AD in Medinah.
Shafi -  born 767 AD  in Gaza, lived in Egypt.
Hanibali -  born 780 AD in Baghdad, spent time in the Hejaz region.

Bukhari born 810 AD.
Muslim bin Hajaj  born 817 AD.
Tirmidhi  born 824 AD.

If you take a quick glance on the birth dates of those four imams and then Bukhari and his two successors, you will see that they all fit right into the midst of the Ommayad and Abbasid rules, the exact period when the practice of hadith narration began, followed by its compilation.  It was the period when this entire culture of man-written religious laws got started and thrived with huge introductions of extra-Quranic laws and a gradual attitude of neglect towards the Quran.  Unarguably, it initiated the destruction of TRUE Islam. 

Madhab ( مذهب‎ ) in Arabic refers to 'school of thought.'   The existence of four madhabs  (Hanafi, Malki, Shafi and Hanibali) is an acknowledgement of four schools of thought within Fiqh or Islamic Jurisprudence.  That, automatically and logically implies divisions.  Apparently one cannot say that all four schools are identical otherwise there would be no need to create that many schools of thought.  However, though an individual is entitled to their own interpretations of the Quran, they are not authorized to officially establish 'schools of thoughts' in writing as such ideas can only lead to splits and discord within the Muslim society.  It's precisely what the four madhabs ended up doing.  It was further manipulated by the Wahabs and their likes in the coming years much later.  I'm aware many will disagree.  They claim that the founders of these four madhabs were simply disciplinarians.  Maybe their intent wasn't as hurtful as it turned out to be, but they did set the ball rolling.  Whether advertently or inadvertently, they did help to keep the door open for feud, disunity and schism which only carried Islam farther and farther from the Great Quran.   Claiming to make Islamic law extracted from the Quran and "Sunnah," the addition of Sunnah is the real detrimental catch.   It's an open secret that "Islamic laws" constructed by Muslim jurists from the 8th century contained little or nothing of the Quran but plenty of creations of the human mind in the name of "sunnah," largely a set of unauthentic stories forged using the Prophet's (pbuh) name, then formulated into Islamic law called Sharia, which expanded with detailed explanations as Fiqh.

There can be no universal tafsir of the Quran.  This has been declared by The Almighty in Verse 3:7 and more, that include Verses 17:84 (already quoted) and Verses 75:16-19 that say "Stir not your tongue herewith to hasten it.  Lo! upon Us (rests) the putting together thereof and the reading thereof.And when We read it, follow you the reading;  Then lo! upon Us (rests) the explanation thereof."  (75:16-19)  Al-Qaiamah. 

Clear Revelations are the clear Commandments of Allah which are obligatory to follow.  But even in regard to the allegorical Verses, no one can claim to confirm their explanations.  One can express an opinion, but it must be viewed only as an opinion, not a confirmation.  Confirmation is with Allah only.  "He it is Who has revealed unto you (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knows its explanation save Allah."  (3:7).   

It just shows and proves how profoundly those hadith quibblings and babblings have misguided so many among us. 

I seek refuge in Allah alone.
 



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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2019, 12:50:59 am »



Brother TS, Sister Heba, so correctly spoken.  Allah bless.

'The Muslim intellects vs. the religious jurists' ... well perceived.  And those madhabs are a sub-division.  The first big division separated Muslims into Sunnis and Shiias, but in medieval times their differences weren't as deep as at present.  The gusto of wahabism gained momentum only after the discovery of oil.  Then got infinitely worse with the passage of years.   This very negative development was great fodder for the hadith institution.


 
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Ruhi_Rose
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2019, 12:57:28 am »



Those additional inputs and the chronological dates were tremendously helpful. Many thanks sister and brother. 

 
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