Guestbook opened for now.  We aren't registering members at the moment.  Guests wanting to post brief queries may post in our guestbook.  No lengthy debates please. Kindly note: MV is a place for serious learning through mutual consultation where we have zero tolerance for trouble-makers, narcissists and needless disputants. We simply stand for what is compatible with the Noble Quran regardless of titles such as "traditionalism" or "modernism."
Muslim Villa
April 18, 2021, 10:28:00 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Difference between  روح and نفس  (ruh and nafs)


+-
Shoutbox
July 07, 2020, 11:23:26 am N. Truth Seeker: InshAllah, vaccine will come but might take a bit of time.
July 07, 2020, 11:22:43 am Heba E. Husseyn: Exactly ... !
July 07, 2020, 11:22:10 am Zeynab: World stuck in a pandemic desperately needs a vaccine.
July 07, 2020, 11:21:18 am N. Truth Seeker: lol true.
July 07, 2020, 11:20:59 am N. Truth Seeker: Very soon it will be neck deep.
July 07, 2020, 11:20:23 am Heba E. Husseyn: Dr. Fauci in US says country is knee-deep in pandemic.
May 30, 2019, 06:15:49 am Zeynab: Alhudulilah, yes sister Ruhi.  Time flies in this fleeting world.  May Allah The Almighty accept our hard work in the permanent world.  That's the real success.
May 30, 2019, 03:43:58 am Ruhi_Rose: Jumaa-tul-widaa (farewell to Ramadan) tomorrow Friday 31.  How time flies!  Ya Allah, keep us close to Your mercy.
View Shout History
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Difference between  روح and نفس  (ruh and nafs)  (Read 119 times)
Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3821



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2021, 09:37:35 pm »




Subhan'Allah.   wow!   I haven't studied too much within this sphere of Ibn Khalidun's works, but I am thoroughly sure it's true, one hundred percent .. because that man was a genius.   Alhumdulilah.
Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3406



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2021, 07:57:04 pm »




Returning to some aspects of this topic.  My husband and I were focusing on it.  He penned a brief presentation and requested me to put it up on his behalf. 


Quote

In the Islamic perspective as presented by our scholars (particularly to understand the human self) is wholly spiritual and thus intangible - ruh, nafs,ihsas, aql, and qalb - that gives a spiritual dimension to every physical organ from which the intangible ensues.  And no doubt, every tangible has an intangible side.  Qalb is generally referred to as 'spiritual heart.'  But it can also allude to the ruh.  In fact among both Sunni and Shiia Muslims, nafs is generally taken as soul or ruh in the course of  conversations or references. 

In early Arabic literature, nafs meant “self,” or “person.”   To say that someone has wronged their nafs can very logically mean they have wronged themselves. 

Nafs is considered to be the lowest principle of a human being.  Higher than the nafs is the Ruh (spirit).  And if you perceive the spiritual facet of the physical hear (Qalb), that too is considered a higher principle than Nafs though it's lower than Ruh.   Hence, the Ruh, Qalb and Nafs form the broad foundation interconnected to other complicated systems within the human self.  This entire field, starting from the broad foundation to it's relevant connections is basically a subjective study, interpreted with slight differences by different experts.   It's generally the 'urafa' or Muslim mystics (that is, Sufis) who perceive Qalb as the spiritual heart.  Do they also refer to the physical heart as Qalb?   I would think so, as I do not know any other term they mention for it. 

Most importantly, what is confirmed by the Noble Quran and unanimously wholly accepted by all is that every body has 'Ruh' inside the matter body, and when this Ruh is disconnected permanently from the body (that is, when Malik-al-Mawt is sent to take back the Ruh) the person is pronounced dead.  This is only about the Ruh.   There is no such concept about the spiritual heart, unless the spiritual heart is viewed in the same context as the Ruh, just different expressions, which is also the perspective of many experts.

Unquote

😐

And now your frank views dear folks. 




Btw ..  Brother TS mentioned a similar context too




In early Arabic literature, nafs meant “self,” or “person.”   To say that someone has wronged their nafs can very logically mean they have wronged themselves.  


 
Report Spam   Logged

Zeynab
TEAM MV Founder
Admin
Hero Member
*
Posts: 4793



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2021, 08:31:54 pm »




That's wonderfully put.   Big thanks to your husband.  





This entire field, starting from the broad foundation to it's relevant connections is basically a subjective study, interpreted with slight differences by different experts.   It's generally the 'urafa' or Muslim mystics (that is, Sufis) who perceive Qalb as the spiritual heart.



Absolutely correct.   There are minor differences in perception of different individuals who have studied the human self carefully.   As your husband rightly said, the aspect of soul which is already asserted in the Noble Quran is understood without any differences by all.   The rest of the complexities carry slightly differing approach by various researchers.   Only Allah Almighty has the final answer for everything that He designs.  Subhan'Allah.  This is true in both the Islamic perspective of study and the standard "secular" perspective in the research of human mind and behavior.   After all, the secular perspective analyses and investigates the designs, constructions and arrangements of what is already created by The Almighty much earlier.   It's not the secularists who have planned or created anything. 

Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3406



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2021, 08:38:27 pm »





 ....  The rest of the complexities carry slightly differing approach by various researchers.   Only Allah Almighty has the final answer for everything that He designs.  Subhan'Allah.  This is true in both the Islamic perspective of study and the standard "secular" perspective in the research of human mind and behavior.   After all, the secular perspective analyses and investigates the designs, constructions and arrangements of what is already created by The Almighty much earlier.   It's not the secularists who have planned or created anything. 



So true Sis.   

And thank you from the pit of my heart for your appreciation ☺


Report Spam   Logged

Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3821



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2021, 09:09:53 pm »




I think it's a very thoughtful and comprehensive wrap-up, Mash'Allah.   That's my frank view.  Thank you to your husband. 

Scholars of different schools use these terms in different ways.   But in a general sense, they all refer to the same broad reality that it's the Ruh which is eternal while everything else within the body dies when the Ruh finishes its term and passes out of the body.
 




In early Arabic literature, nafs meant “self,” or “person.”   To say that someone has wronged their nafs can very logically mean they have wronged themselves. 

 


Spot on.  Yeah, brother TS also implied the same in one of his comments.   This makes a lot of sense.  When a person commits a violation, they wrong their Ruh, and prior to that they wrong their own person (the weak Nafs) that prompts them to indulge in a violation and thus ruin their soul.





It's generally the 'urafa' or Muslim mystics (that is, Sufis) who perceive Qalb as the spiritual heart.  Do they also refer to the physical heart as Qalb?   I would think so, as I do not know any other term they mention for it.



Mash'Allah, this is interesting and an excellent point to ponder upon.    Personally I do see the spiritual Qalb as another expression for the Ruh.  When Allah Almighty says in the Noble Quran about the misguided ones that (paraphrasing) it's their hearts that are blind and not the eyes, the sufi category would conclude it to be the 'spiritual heart.'   Actually and quite apparently, it's the same as the Ruh or soul .. when the Ruh, influenced by the Nafs (or can be be influenced by the  Aql) .... gets trapped into negative temptations and turns blind (that is, reprobate).

Indeed it sounds very true that if you view the spiritual Qalb as a different entity from the Ruh, there is no such notion of the spiritual Qalb passing away or being immortal like the Ruh.

A very simple analysis of Arabic grammar.

Heart = Qalb.   Even if you read this as spiritual heart, taken in a physical context it's also referred to as Qalb.  

Now let's look at some variations.

Heartbeat  = نبض القلب (nabz al-qalb)

Heart failure = سكتة قلبية (saktat qalbia)

Heart rate = معدل ضربات القلب (muadal darabat al qalb).
("Darabat" can also be pronounced as 'zarabat' as sisters Ruhi and Zeynab suggested the Urdo enunciation of the 'z' sound instead of 'd' in ض)

Thus, expressions such as heart rate or heart failure etc. carry the physical connotation.  Yet there is no specific term that differentiates between a spiritual and physical Qalb.   Alhumdulilah. 


Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3406



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2021, 09:18:11 pm »



Thank you very much for your opinion Sister Heba.   Your elaboration focusing on Arabic grammar is thought provoking .. Ruh and spiritual Qalb the same and physical Qalb a separate entity. 

And your mention of Aql, can that be taken as the same as Nafs or emotion (ihsas)?


Report Spam   Logged

Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3821



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2021, 09:48:28 pm »




You're very welcome sister.




And your mention of Aql, can that be taken as the same as Nafs or emotion (ihsas)?



Not really.  Well, again, there's the element of subjectivity. 

Aql (as a whole) is more or less commonly accepted as cognition.  Cognition is the mental process of the mind that enables us to make decisions, and a healthy cognitive process helps us to recognize what's logical or suitable or otherwise.   Nafs, in my opinion, is part of the mind linked with emotions, feelings and inclinations.  It can go either way, right or wrong, depending on the strength and will-power of the Nafs.

Sometimes, depending on the perception of the researcher, Nafs is seen as the center of emotions and inclinations.   Some other analysts and clinicians view Nafs as ego.   Yet others view Nafs as the center of inclinations and emotions or ihsas as a separate entity.

For example, see this technical illustration.  It has divided Nafs and Ihsas into separate entities and hasn't specified ego at all.   

 



Hence, I prefer sticking to my previous representation.  It's makes sense and is uncomplicated.



Report Spam   Logged

Ruhi_Rose
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3406



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2021, 09:52:06 pm »




Subhan'Allah.  That makes it clearer.  Thanks in plenty again Sis.
Report Spam   Logged

Heba E. Husseyn
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA Villa Artisan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3821



WWW
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2021, 09:52:52 pm »



Very welcome  ..
Report Spam   Logged


Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Scammers & spammers will be reported | © If you borrow MV contents you must mention our link with hypertext | MV Team is not responsible for comments by members or guests.
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum


Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy