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Hadith Qudsi


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« on: July 26, 2007, 08:04:56 pm »

 BismEm


 salamem to all

You would ask, what's Hadith Qudsi?  Well, Hadith Qudsi, according to traditionalist hadith adherents are the words of the Almighty Allah spoken to the Prophet Muhammad outside of the Quran, and allegedly repeated by the Prophet in the presence of others who 'recorded' it.  According to hadith traditionalists, there are about 40 Hadith Qudsis.  But I think there are more.  Each time I come across a "Hadith Qudsi," it seems to be a different one.  By now I think I've read many more than just 40 being babbled at will by anyone and everyone like a 'free for all commodity.'  Nauzbillah!  Undoubtedly, this is a very dangerous ideology to say the least.  Any rational mind would reject such sinful notions downright. 

In other words, Hadith Qudsi according to hadithers means Divine revelations or wahy (as in Arabic).

The argument now is .. if hadith qudsi represents wahy (revelation), then wouldn't Allah preserve it in the same way as He preserved the Noble Quraan?  Why would Allah treat the two kinds of revelations so differently?  Why would Allah not tell us in the Quran that His revelations also exist outside the Quran?  In the case of Quarinic wahy, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) went to great lengths to assure its complete and perfect registration in writing.  We all know this for sure.  From beginning to end every word was both written and committed to memory.  As for the 'wahy' recorded in hadith, it was neither written down, nor memorised, nor systematically collected nor preserved.  The Prophet gave absolutely no such instructions to preserve such ahadith that are supposed to be 'revelations outside the Quran.'  The Prophet gave no orders to write or preserve any of his sayings under the title of 'hadith.' 

The truth of the matter is, the revelations of the Almighty God are contained only within the Noble Quraan and nothing outside of it.  Because Allah has NOT told us of anything being Divine outside the Quran, we CANNOT attribute Divine qualities to any writings other than the Quran.  No doubt the Prophet (pbuh) was guided, comforted and inspired in the course of his daily life by the Divine Power.  God cares of all of us in a similar way, and the Prophet's relationship with God being more special than that of a commoner, his (pbuh) inspiration and guidance on the basis of his relationship with God must have been greater too.  But this does not at all mean receiving Divine revelations outside of the Quran in the form of "hadith qudsi."  It's simply Allah's guidance and help through a strong rapport on the basis of one's intuition & conscience.   This cannot and should not be mistaken for Divine revelation. 

It would surely be an unprecedented violation in the sight of Allah to presume deeply controversial human writings as His 'revelations.'  Inventing lies against the messenger of Allah in the form of "hadith" is unethical enough.  Inventing falsehood and guesswork against Allah with the title of "hadith qudsi" is totally unforgivable and beyond the pale.  Therefore, sisters and brothers, be careful before committing your 'allegience' to such myths as Hadith Qudsi or the culture of Hadith in general. 

JazekAllah khair.  May the Almighty Allah guide everyone to the path of truth, and help to keep a mighty distance between us and the sins of falsehood that always lure the human mind, ameen.
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2007, 12:45:19 am »

 wsalam and peace to all


Thank you for putting this up sister.  Though for the rigid hadith traditionalists the article would amount to poking the hornet's nest, it's a vital topic and needs to be addressed.

First, I too think there are ('secretly') more than 40 hadith qudsis (or as it's known, an-Nawawi's 40 hadith qudsi).  Officially there could be 40 listed in the hadith qudsi collection.  But inclusive of the quantum of 'new sounding' narrations that accompany numerous lectures, khutbas, articles, fatwas etc. seem to go beyond 40.  And of course, the naive faithfuls trust their teachers too much to check.  However, checking with the official list of 40 might not carry a whole lot a weight.  That official list of 40 is no shinning example of authenticity anyway. 

The next important point I'd like to state is, hadith qudsis don't mention how Allah (Subhanu Wa'Tala) communicated these narrations to the Prophet.  We know very well that the Noble Quran came thru the angel Gabriel.  But there's no such mention nor the notion of angel Gabriel nor any other angel bringing hadith qudsi to the Prophet (pbuh).  So how did these hadith qudsis or 'revelations' come?

Allah has said in the Noble Quran that He speaks to mankind only thru revelations. 

"And it was not (vouchsafed) to any mortal that Allah should speak to him unless (it be) by revelation or from behind a veil, or (that) He sendeth a messenger to reveal what He will by His leave. Lo! He is Exalted, Wise." (42:51) Ash-Shura

This clearly implies that the Divine Power, High and Exalted, speaks to mankind (His chosen slaves/messengers) indirectly.  But this indirect method, a matter of great importance, is not elucidated in any hadith qudsi. 

The only person who ever spoke to Allah directly was Prophet Moses (pbuh) when Allah instructed him to go to Pharoah with His Message.  Other than this, the Quran does not indicate anyone speaking to Allah directly.  The Noble Quran has 6,000 plus verses.  All those Words of the Almighty Allah were revealed to the Prophet thru the angel Gabriel at the instructions of Allah.  During these Quranic revelations the Prophet (pbuh) never found himself conversing directly to the Almighty God. The Quran does not inidcate such a thing anywhere.  So, if something as tremendous as the Noble Quran wasn't revealed directly to the Prophet, could hadith qudsi be revealed directly in the form of a one-on-one conversation between Allah and te Prophet as shown comfortably in these man-written hadith qudsi narrations ? 

Some champions of hadith also claim that certain hadith qudsi narrations came to the Prophet thru dreams.  While it's very easy to construct a little story of this kind, again there's absolutely NO mention in the Quran by Allah that He has sent any important messages to the Prophet outside the Quran thru the Prophet's dreams. 

Allah forgive, but anyone who indulges in such baseless presumptions are only guessing and thus hurting their own souls.  To guess about matters unwarranted by the Almighty Allah itself insinuates misguidance.  And if that guesswork aims at misquoting Allah Himself, surely the retribution could be severe on the Day of Judgment.

Thanks again sister for bringing this issue to light.  JazekAllah khair!  May the Almighty God guide the misguided.
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2007, 02:37:34 am »

wsalam and peace to all



"And it was not (vouchsafed) to any mortal that Allah should speak to him unless (it be) by revelation or from behind a veil, or (that) He sendeth a messenger to reveal what He will by His leave. Lo! He is Exalted, Wise." (42:51) Ash-Shura

This clearly implies that the Divine Power, High and Exalted, speaks to mankind (His chosen slaves/messengers) indirectly. But this indirect method, a matter of great importance, is not elucidated in any hadith qudsi.

The only person who ever spoke to Allah directly was Prophet Moses (pbuh) when Allah instructed him to go to Pharoah with His Message. Other than this, the Quran does not indicate anyone speaking to Allah directly.



The very term Divine revelation brings the concept of the Almighty God communicating with humans thru some source or behind a veil i.e. not showing Himself. When Moses (pbuh) talked to God, it was like from behind a veil because Moses did not see God, just heard Him. Moses was the only Prophet who saw God, just for a second .. and that Light of God was so dazzling that only seeing it for a second was enough to make Moses faint. Amazing! Alhamdulilah !!

Yes - this was a very important and well explained piece. Thanks sis, zeyn and kat.

Actually the manner in which Hadith qudsis are narrated sound like a direct one on one conversation rather than a wahy which is even more unlikely than a wahy.
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2007, 03:19:14 am »

Here's another verse that mentions that the message of the Quran was sent to the Prophet (pbuh) by Allah through the angel .  As per my understanding, I presume "True Spirit" refers to angel Gabriel.  And Allah knows best.

And lo! it is a revelation of the Lord of the Worlds,
Which the True Spirit hath brought down
Upon thy heart, that thou mayst be (one) of the warners,
(26:192-194)
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2007, 01:34:18 am »

 hart BismEm hart


And here's where the Almighty Allah talks to Moses from the unseen


"But when he reached it, he was called, saying: Blessed is Whosoever is in the fire and Whosoever is round about it! And Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!

O Moses! Lo! it is I, Allah, the Mighty, the Wise.

And throw down thy staff! But when he saw it writhing as it were a demon, he turned to flee headlong; (but it was said unto him): O Moses! Fear not! the emissaries fear not in My presence,

Save him who hath done wrong and afterward hath changed evil for good. And lo! I am Forgiving, Merciful.

And put thy hand into the bosom of thy robe, it will come forth white but unhurt. (This will be one) among nine tokens unto Pharaoh and his people Lo! they were ever evil-living folk."

[27:8-12] Surah An-Naml
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2013, 09:32:11 am »

 salamem

Jazak Allah kahir



Thank u so much for this useful post, very appreciating well addressed topic , u guys brings out all kinds stuff in details i like to read Smiley I am completely in agreement with u absolutely  right this ideology is not at all acceptable ,Another secret  revelation / wahi ? what a torture  Angry  accepting such material a divine revelation outside Quran and given it status next to Noble Quran is equal to disbelief from Quranic perspective it is clear that such beliefs and assertions cannot be supported there is not one single statement in the entire Quran that categorically asserts the requirement of other sources being necessary to explain the Quran or which are required for mankind's guidance . Prophet was instructed to warn with the Quran alone..

 

Say (O Muhammad): What thing is of most weight in testimony? Say: Allah is Witness between me and you. And this Qur'an hath been inspired in me, that I may warn therewith you and whomsoever it may reach. Do ye in sooth bear witness that there are gods beside Allah? Say: I bear no such witness. Say: He is only One Allah. Lo! I am innocent of that which ye associate (with Him).6:19

 

We are Best Aware of what they say, and thou (O Muhammad) art in no wise a compeller over them. But warn by the Qur'an him who feareth My threat . 50:45

 

And when thou bringest naccepting such material ot a verse for them they say: Why hast thou not chosen it? Say: I follow only that which is inspired in me from my Lord. This (Qur'an) is insight from your Lord, and a guidance and a mercy for a people that believe.7:203

 

Quran verses make it absolutely clear that the only source necessary for mankind's guidance is the Quran.

 

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا أُولَٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ


And of mankind is he who payeth for mere pastime of discourse, that he may mislead from Allah's way without knowledge, and maketh it the butt of mockery. For such there is a shameful doom.31:6

 

 lahwa        idle




l-ḥadīthi    tales   

Noble Quran provides no authority to believers to any other source for religious guidance except for itself .Allah has made very clear in 31:6 !! there are, among men, those who purchase ( idle Arabic- Lahwal), (tales Arabic- Hadith), without knowledge, to mislead from the path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the path) for such there will be a humiliating penalty.. Allah Him self claim that divine book is complete and fully detailed and Noble Quran dose not hinted any secret revelation rather Allah warn His believer to be aware with these tales. Only Divine Word we have is Noble Quran , Hadith writers especially invented hadith qudsi to force the masses to not object to any of the hadiths! Aren't regular false ahadith's enough to misguide ? why got something else to be claim as Ahadith's Qudsi are what were revealed to Prophet (pbuh) other than Quran which Prophet explained in his own words ? so As a mater of fact these should have been got written during the period of Prophet(pbuh) under his (pbuh) supervision ?  his observation ?  hadith qudsi are similar late self made collections and have not been compiled in the Prophet's life. They are centuries removed from the time of the Prophet and the question here is still the same ! what is the authenticity of general hadith corpus or this hadiths qudsi ? when the Noble Quran completely dismissed the whole idea of hadith ? There are simply no hadith qudsi recorded, it nothing more than pious frauds. Muslims are only required to use their own intellect, learn the Quran by themselves and take direct guidance from it rather than gettIng struck into six false books or 40 listed saying called hadith qudsi But unfortunately very few people take efforts in this direction they do not use the Quran as a source of law and guidance, they rather use it for purposes of taking oaths or use it as an Amulet  Cry  Such people do not consider the Quran as a book of knowledge for guidance in the matters of deen they often approach the men written books (so called hadith or another set of lie hadith qudsi )  Angry How unfortunate ! Dynamic Islam presented by the Quran Only !! beloved prophet Muhammad(pbhu) left behind him a pattern for the smooth development of muslim ummah but the conspiracies by the enemies of prophet , enemies of Allah broke that pattern and the deen brought by the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) into bloody sects as a result of it, the muslims today are growing under the pressure , instead of one central organization and one code of life given by the Quran,though some folks struggle to get out of it but with wrong guidance, simply without the brightest light of the Quran alone it would be impossible ... that's sad ! Such is the literature which is considered to be as much a part of deen as the Noble Quran. It is even said that the Quran is dependent on hadith and if there is a conflict on a certain point between the two, the Hadith shall be considered more reliable than the Quran. that's the path of iblis and muslims are fuckin themselves by worship of the past and tales  Angry  Quran offered a religion which had the capacity of bringing about a bright present and a bright future to mankind, but the religion invented by man , crook narrow minded imam's, scholars gave the idea of a dark present and bright past, worship of past traditions, unreliable narrators , worship of the dead imams and their self made,wishful literature . I am not saying the past is useless after all, the evolutionary process in this world is based on the past But evolution never halts at a certain point, so as to make the present dark and past bright which means putting a stop to all future development precisely by the sort of awareness and knowledge this darkest past has pushed ummah into centuries back  Sad  Sad  
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 02:10:20 am »

Very correctly put sis Muslima.  The Prophet (pbuh) left behind only the Quran for the Ummah to follow, which is the smoothest path to observe.  But instead look what the Ummah had done to that smooth path .. made it rough and bloody.  As a result, majority of the Muslims are undoubtedly following the path of Iblis the asshole.  

I really like some of the expressions you've used here  Cheesy .... "stuck with six false books or 40 listed saying called hadith qudsi."  Very true.   Today's Ummah that's no different from a common shit bag is simply fixated on those 6 books containing big time baatil.  Not a shred of Haqq in them.  And hadith qudsi only makes that pile of baatil bigger.  

I would also call these so-called scholars and ulemas "pious frauds,"   Grin  a very appropriate expression for such friends of Iblis.
 
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 01:26:21 pm »

 Grin

Thank u for ur appreciation dear sis heba  Allah bless u .

I agree correct !  these bag of shit are tightly closed from upper side but have burst from down and spreading mess .Deen -e-islam has largely been corrupted by such evil people they are Enemy of the haq ,they are slave of batil they couldn't even understood the meaning of haq ,Haq known to them as deprived of a right, in my sight it's Ulma's who Has taken away the right of every Muslim on Quran ,for the victory of batil. ulma's and scholars are responsible for this destruction .  Angry


 
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 06:33:15 pm »


I agree correct !  these bag of shit are tightly closed from upper side but have burst from down and spreading mess .

Ahaa ha ha  LaaughingAway    I agree with you 110% sis.  The brain is capped so it cannot speak sense and all the nonsense shoots out from the rear  Cheesy Grin Cheesy   You are also totally right that the ulemas tactic to score a victory for baatil has been to stop Muslims from reading the Quran.  There are countless number of community imams who tell their people not to look for answers in the Quran but to come to them.  They scare people by saying the "Quran is too difficult and they won't understand it" without discussing their problem with the imams.  And when these naive people talk to their imams, they only hear of hadith and the imams' personal views which these gutless people blindly accept as "Islam" without questioning the bullshit spoken by the imams .... as if the imams are infallible.  
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2013, 07:29:46 am »

 Cheesy

 yeah u have word by word rightly expressed sis ! Thumbsup  exactly that's what i have also observed and meant to say bunch of thanks dear sis heba.. Smiley
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Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.9:111

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