Muslim Villa

Category 7 => HADITH DISCUSSIONS => Topic started by: Zeynab on December 12, 2006, 03:30:39 am



Title: The reason I personally found many Ahadith disturbing
Post by: Zeynab on December 12, 2006, 03:30:39 am
 BismEm
 salamem


I had been brought up as a traditional Muslimah, Alhamdulilah, deriving my spiritual and ethical knowledge only from the Glorious Quraan.  I read the English translations of Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall.  Since recently I'd been hearing much about Hadith from many sections of the Muslim community, so I thought of studying it too.  As all of you would know, Hadith is the alleged saying of the Prophet Muhammad as claimed by the Muslim clergy, but in reality it is not.  I studied the Sahih al-Bukhari thoroughly from cover to cover and parts of certain other collections as well.  Unfortunately and unexpectedly, I was very disappointed.  I became deeply disturbed by the contents of many of these Ahadith, to the extent that it robbed my sleep for many nights.  I found majority of them to be full of absurdities.  Most of them clearly contradict the Qur'aan, many are totally unnecessary, some are silly, some are funny and many sound vulgar & embarrassing.  Many clash with the emplemary character of the most beloved Prophet Muhammad, on whom be peace.  Of course, it goes without saying that the beloved Prophet (pbuh) never said such things.  What  boggles my mind is how can so many Muslims today take these narrations seriously by attributing them to the Prophet (pbuh), and implementing important laws based on such narrations that have apparently been cooked up by the mullahs to suit their own motives? 
 
Of course, I admit there are some good narrations as well which I truly like, ones compatible with the Glorious Quraan and the Prophet's (pbuh) humble temperament.  But the improper ones have shaken my trust considerably and I am not sure if I can give the benefit of the doubt for authenticity even to the good ones.  Thus, while the inappropriate ones should be discarded, the nicer ones can simply be retained as 'wise Islamic teachings by anonymous.  These should no doubt be retained for drawing ethical lessons and for beautifying our Islamic literature because, after all, nice words are always valuable no matter who says them.  But because the history of Hadith is tainted with such deep controversy, no narrations (good or bad) should be attributed to the Prophet (pbuh).   Only Allah knows their actual source.  And the Almighty Allah says in the Quraan not to say or believe in matters about which we have no knowledge.  Surely, attributing wrong narrations to the Prophet (pbuh) would be a serious violation in the sight of Allah (Subhanu Wa'Tala) and the Prophet (pbuh).  Besides, I've heard a great deal about 'isnads' or chain of narrators being manipulated too.  So, that might not be a really satisfying reason for recognizing a narration as authentic. I've come across many narrations declared "authentic" by our so-called "scholars," but their contents are such that my heart can never accept them.  To know more on Isnad, check the post Ever Thought of the Fallibility of 'Isnad' ?? (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=527.0)

The good hadith sound very nice, but the bad ones sound really very bad.  The problem with hadith begins when you start reading the collections systematically. The hardliners say that we must believe in all the Hadith. This means believing in the bad ones too.  I already stated I cannot do that.
 
There's yet another important aspect to reflect upon.  Even if a few Ahadith are found unauthentic or absurd in the entire set of all collections, it would be enough to shake the trust of people .. because if something is based on truth with a straight intent of conveying the truth and nothing but the truth, there ought to be no cracks anywhere.  Of course we cannot say this about hadith because there are not just a 'few' ahadith that are absurd, but majority are in this category.   A few good sayings from the Hadith cannot cover up for all the bad ones.

Besides, we cannot just quote the good ones and slip the bad ones under the carpet.  This is not the way 'guidance' is supposed to present itself to people.  If we really value a collection of writings or narrations, we should be proud of every word of it .. just like we are proud of every single Ayah of the Glorious Qur'aan .. it's contents, it's uniformity, eloquence, and the honesty and beauty with which it presents the truth.  But it's the opposite with the Hadith.  I've very often come across people circulating handpicked narrations of Hadith, making sure they select the best ones to avoid embarrassment, and hiding the disgusting ones.  So how can one be expected to trust the institution of hadith and acquire peace of mind by reading it when most of its narrations sound so inappropriate that they have to be concealed from public view?  I thought that the Hadith was meant to compliment the Quraan, not contradict it. 
 
Now think of this. There are so many Ahadith that discuss the conjugal relationship of the Prophet (pbuh) with his wives.  I say to myself .. is all this necessary to discuss?  Wasn't our beloved Prophet entitled to any privacy in his life?  If the Prophet (pbuh) ever came to know of these obnoxious narrations, would he (pbuh) be pleased with those people responsible for circulating such gossip?  We are supposed to love and respect the beloved Prophet even more than we love and respect our own parents, and that's really saying a lot.  Would any of us ever discuss the conjugal relationship of our parents?  I am sure not.  So why do the Hadith writers narrate such intimate aspects about the beloved Prophet's life?  All I can say is that these Hadith writers obviously had a questionable intent.
 
People say Hadith explains the Qur'aan.  Among the clergy, this is supposed to be the standard excuse for accepting Hadith.  To be honest, I disagree totally.  All my life I read the Glorious Quraan independently and never needed help from any source to understand it.   Qur'aan is not complicated nor difficult to understand particularly for those who are seriously looking for guidance.  Allah Himself says in that the Quraan is "easy to understand."  Indeed it is.  Secondly, it would be gross arrogance on the part of we humans to say that the Glorious Quraan depends on Hadith or on any collection of writings for its explanation.  The Glorious Quraan in independent of everything. 

As anyone who has studied Hadith would know that it has a striking resemblance with the altered Old and New Testaments.  Researchers who've analysed the history of Hadith have confirmed that the Hadith writers read little or nothing of the Quraan, but they surely scanned the Torah and Gospel to write the Hadith narrations, the purpose being to revive many of the pre-Islamic laws.  Looking at many of the contents of the Hadith, this analysis is apparently very true.  E.g. stoning to death for adultery, death for apostacy, re-appearance of Jesus son of Mary etc. are all taken from the Bible.  Such laws have nothing to do with the Quraan.  The counterpart of the Gospels is the Hadith, not the Quraan.  It's a natural tendency in human beings to accept & adhere to human dictates with much greater willingness than Divine Commandments.  If Allah (The Most High) hadn't taken the responsibility upon Himself to preserve the Glorious Qur'aan, perhaps the Qur'aan would have also been completely altered by humans over the last several centuries, just like the Torah and the Bible have been totally changed.  But Allah has stated that the Glorious Qur'aan is in a "guarded tablet" ("Lawh Mahfooz") and will never change, Alhamdulilah.  Also, because of the style and depth of the Qur'aan, there's not much scope to misinterpret it.  And of course, it's impossible to alter it which has been a great setback for the manipulators.  So they needed a different channel altogether to present their own views and attribute narrations to the Prophet (pbuh).  Most of these exaggerated or completely concocted and fabricated narrations are today read in the form of 'Hadith.'  It is also an accepted fact that most of the Ahadith we see today have been 'edited' well over half a dozen times during the last several centuries by various imams and "scholars" to suit their own social & political interests and personal thoughts. 
 
Then again, I have very often come across this needless and hackneyed concept that Hadith teaches prayer (salaah), without which we wouldn't know how to offer salaah today.  After reflecting a little, anyone with a shred of sense would agree that nothing could be farther from the truth.  Hadith does not teach salaah.  I never came across the entire procedure of salaah in any Hadith nor have any of those whom I've asked.  Most importantly, we must know that the culture of Hadith narrations came around 200 years after the passing away of the Prophet (pbuh). So, according to the theory of the clergy that Muslims have learnt to offer salaah through Hadeeth, the question arises .. how did those Muslims offer their salaah who lived during the 200 years after the passing of the Prophet (pbuh) and the coming of Imam Bukhari?  Or does this mean that for those 200 years the Muslims didn't offer salaah or forgot the method of salaah till Bukhari and other narrators came along and showed it to them ?  Of course this is nonsense.  Som, I would like to know how the Muslims learned to offer prayers during those 200 years between the Prophet's (pbuh) death and Bukhari's appearance for writing narrations.  The answer is simple.  Muslims have not learnt the method of prayers from the Hadith. Instead, they have learnt to offer salaah from the practical demonstrations of the beloved Prophet (pbuh) who used to lead the prayers 5 times a day throughout his lifetime. After the Prophet (pbuh), Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Ali led the prayers and so on.  And how did the Prophet (pbuh) learn the method of salaah?  Another very simple answer.  He learned it from the Quran.  Yes, read the Quran carefully and you will know that the Quran contains the precise method of the Monotheistic prayer.  This is how the unwritten practice and tradition of offering salaah was passed on from generation to generation. Bukhari and other hadith writers may have learned a few of these points from the people and thus wrote it down.  I wouldn't give Hadith any credit for teaching us prayers.  To know the truth that the Noble Quran teaches salaah, read the post Does the Quran contain the exact procedure of salaat? (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2302.0)

Some adherents of Hadith claim that Hadith narrations already existed since the time of the Prophet (pbuh), and Bukhari and others simply compiled them into different collections/sections.  This is another  contradiction from the many concrete data of Islamic history that categorically state that the Prophet (pbuh) did not allow any of his narrations to be preserved for fear that people might mix them up with the Qur'aan or get distracted from the Quraan, and in accordance with his (pbuh) wishes, Abu Bakr (ra) and Umer bin Khattab (ra) had destroyed thousands of Ahadith narrations.  In fact, there are some Hadith narrations that themselves mention that the Prophet (pbuh) did not allow anyone to preserve his words.  If you think of it, this admission makes the Hadith literature a 'contradiciton within a contradiction' in that, it apparently denies the truth of its own narrations and yet goes on with it. 
 
Surely, the Glorious Qur'aan itself contains the Sunnah, in that, it mentions every basic aspect about the Prophet's (pbuh) life and character, and it teaches us how to offer prayers.  Thus, every reliable and truly authentic information about the Prophet can only be acquired from the Quraan.  Following the Qur'aan automatically means following the beloved Prophet (pbuh) or the Sunnah.  But following the Hadith means neither following the Qur'aan nor the Prophet.  Adhering to the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh) is most important.  In my humble opinion, when the Qur'aan tells the believers to follow the example of the Prophet, it refers to those believers living in the Prophet's era.  And now since the beloved Prophet (pbuh) has passed away, the believers are expected to follow Allah's Qur'aan and then only can they be sure that they are adhering to the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh).  True & pure guidance as preached by the beloved Prophet Muhammad comes only by endearing the message that was revealed to him (pbuh) in the Glorious Qur'aan and nurturing our conscience on the basis of the principles and broad guidelines of the Noble Qur'aan. 
 
Besides, as many conscientious persons have upheld, as Muslims we simply ought to know that we should not adhere to any other book with with total trust and confidence except the Qur'aan.  Allowing any other set of human writings to come between the Quraan and us would definitely divert us from the Quraan.  This is precisely what has happened to the so-called 'Ummah' of today that has been carried away in a very different direction than the one ordained by the Almighty Allah, only because of their involvement with Hadith. 

I've now quit the Hadith and am back to the Quraan alone like before, Alhamdulilah .. thus, getting back my peace of mind.


Related posts:
- Does the Quran refer to follow the man-written Hadith? (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2888.0)
-Obedience to the Quran means obedience to the Prophet. (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=884.0)
- Hadith conspiracy and distortion of Islam (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=383.0)
- Hadith: A Revaluation (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=434.0)
- Difference between real Sunnah and man-made, traditional 'Sunnah' (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2031.0)
- The Meaning of "Sunnah" in the Quran (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=3312.0)


Title: Re: Quraan alone, no Hadeeth please!
Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on December 12, 2006, 04:02:24 am
My dear, dear sister! walaikum salaam.  u r speaking my language thru and thru  :)  this is one of the most comprehensive articles on hadith i've read.  it covers almost all of those aspects that have raised so many questions in my mind concerning the hadith laws.  i would like to save this article for future reference.  do keep up the good work sis.  jazekAllah khairan.


Title: Re: Quraan alone, no Hadeeth please!
Post by: N. Truth Seeker on December 12, 2006, 04:07:40 am
hmmm,

Very good and comprehensive but try explaining to our jurists  :D  That's the whole damned problem, isn't it?

It's been a long day.  Well past my bedtime.  night and Allah bless! 

 bedtem seeyem gdbi


Title: Re: Quraan alone, no Hadeeth please!
Post by: Ruhi_Rose on December 14, 2006, 12:45:42 am
Yes .. very comprehensive article.  covers just about every discrepancy of hadith.  Thanks sis ..

Br. Pt it's impossible to explain to the jurists because it exposes the jurists.


Title: Re: Quraan alone, no Hadeeth please!
Post by: ameen on January 12, 2007, 11:49:26 am
salam sr. zeynab,

alhamdulillah, a very enlightening read. thanks alot : )

I pray that Allah increase you in knowledge, guidance, and Iman - insha-Allah.

wasalam


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Ruhi_Rose on March 13, 2007, 07:41:42 pm
BismEm
 salamem




In my humble opinion, when the Qur'aan tells the believers to follow the example of the Prophet, it refers to those believers living in the Prophet's era.  And now since the beloved Prophet (pbuh) has passed away, the believers are expected to follow Allah's Qur'aan and then only can they be sure that they are adhering to the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh).  True & pure guidance as preached by the beloved Prophet Muhammad comes only by endearing the message that was revealed to him (pbuh) in the Glorious Qur'aan and nurturing our conscience on the basis of the principles and broad guidelines of the Noble Qur'aan. 



Alhamdulilah, truly enlightening and refreshing work.  I would also add that when the Noble Quran says to follow the Prophet's (pbuh) exampe, it refers to the Prophet's taqwa, his extra-oridnary character comprising of his outstanding patience, perseverence, sense of justice, compassion and consideration for humanity.  This is obviously what the Quran refers to by the Prophet's example, not irrelevant issues like his favorite food, length of the beard, the kind of toothbrush or miswak used, the kind of shoes he (pbuh) wore etc.  Not to mention, apart from the usual yap yap of the Hadith, there's no evidence anywhere that the Prophet (pbuh) ever grew the kind of untrimmed beard that everyone today presumes he did.

 wsalam and thanks for the input sister.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: salaam2011 on February 09, 2011, 10:06:50 pm
Excellent write up with some very sensible points made. I feel the main reason for our decline is ignoring the Quran and following man made books bo wonder the Calips prohibited the printing of so called hadiths. They were men of wisodom and knew well how these books could be used as a vehicle to defame Islam and the great Prophet (SAW).

However there are many that take these hadiths as gospel truth and when one tells them not to do so they immediately label you a kaafir and do takfeer on you.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: salaam2011 on February 09, 2011, 10:14:53 pm
Sister, one more thing. When i began to understand the Quran and then read hadiths, I felt the same as you, very disturbed and not comfortable. I used to also have sleepless nights till I decided to follow the Quran only and use the hadith only as a text just like any other book.

About the Salah again you are right, in fact my views are these so called hadiths complicate and contradict procedures about Salah and by no means give a clear direction.
Salah was from the time of Prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) and as Quran says to the Prophet (SAW) is to follow the religion of Ibrahaim.

I am so happ Subhan Allah to be between people who think and not follow blindly.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on February 10, 2011, 04:16:11 am
Excellent write up with some very sensible points made. I feel the main reason for our decline is ignoring the Quran and following man made books bo wonder the Calips prohibited the printing of so called hadiths. They were men of wisodom and knew well how these books could be used as a vehicle to defame Islam and the great Prophet (SAW).

You are absolutely right brother.  Our great Prophet (SAW) strictly prohibited the people from writing anything except the Noble Quran.  The 4 righteous Caliphs also completely forbade everyone from collecting hadiths and burned thousands of narrations in the possession of people.  The culture of writing hadiths started in full swing during the reign of the Ummayads and was continued by the Abbasids. The institution of Hadith consists of violations by 2 sets of people - the narrators and the compilers.  The Ummayads encouraged the narrators like Abu Huraira, Anas bin Malik etc.  And the Abbasids encouraged the Persian imams like Bukhari and his student Muslim bin Hajaj. 

It is indeed sad that the Ummah has fallen prey to the guile of these folks and drifted away from the Great Quran which is Divine and fully original.  Praise be to Allah, the Almighty.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on February 10, 2011, 04:36:33 am
May Allah reward you for your clear perception, brother.  You must have observed that while discussing about hadith, a hadith follower's first 'challenging' question in defense of hadith is: "if u don't accept hadith then how did u learn salat?"  This is a very sloppy question and the reason why they think hadith taught salat is because they only read the hadith and listen to the fatwas of their imams but they never study the Quran carefully.  The 'complaint' of the hadith followers is that the Quran does not mention the method of salat.  But they never ask themselves why the Noble Quran does not mention the method of salat.  After all, Allah Almighty NEVER forgets anything.  So there must be a reason why the method of salat is not in the Quran.  The reason is that since salat had already begun from the time of Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh), the method of salat was already known to the people.  But because the descendents of the followers of Prophet Ibrahim had gradually deviated from Tawheed to polytheism, therefore they had corrupted the ideology of the Monotheistic salat.  Regarding salat, the purpose of the Noble Quran is to correct that deviated ideology and bring it back to Tawheed.  To check this topic in full, you might be interested to read sister Zeynab's complete post -  "Reasons why the Noble Quran doesn't mention the exact, present method of salaah ."   (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=2302.msg6405#msg6405)  I found this piece very informative.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: salaam2011 on February 10, 2011, 09:06:56 pm
Thank you Sister Heba.

I have to share with all of you. I did my Hajj this year and since then i see a good change in my life and Allah by his Mercy has opened my mind up and I am eager to seek all the good knowledge.

About salat, you are right, people always told be hadith tells you about sala, yes it does but it is so self contradictory. I will Insha Allah produce the eveidence later.
I too have being given dirty looks by many including one who told me that I was close to leave Islam as I told him I do not belive all the hadiths specially those that speaks about the private life of the Prophet and his wives ( it is sad how such blasphemous material can be considered a gospel truth) and all those that make us lazy, example doing Zikar has more rewards that Struggling in Path of Allah (jihad), it is so clear the  enemies of Islam want us to become statues and keep ourselves confiend to dark corners of the room with a tasbih in our hands expect Allah to do all things for us whenAllah states "I dont change your condition unless you change it yourself".

Regards'Salu


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: salaam2011 on February 10, 2011, 09:07:54 pm
Thanks Sister Heba


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Zeynab on February 10, 2011, 11:03:06 pm
Thanks sister heba and brother salaam for this very wise and fruitful discussion. 
As-salaam Alaikum.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Zeynab on February 10, 2011, 11:08:29 pm
Thank you Sister Heba.

I have to share with all of you. I did my Hajj this year and since then i see a good change in my life and Allah by his Mercy has opened my mind up and I am eager to seek all the good knowledge.

About salat, you are right, people always told be hadith tells you about sala, yes it does but it is so self contradictory. I will Insha Allah produce the eveidence later.

Brother Salaam, very nice to learn that u were fortunate enough to undertake the beautiful journey of Hajj.  Alhumdulilah.  May Allah, The Exalted, accept your Hajj and shower u and your family with His blessings.  Ameen.

We look forward to to learning from your wise writings, Insh'Allah.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: salaam2011 on February 11, 2011, 01:23:15 am
Thanks Sister Zeynab for your kind words. Yes, by Allah's mercy it was a very wonderful experience all around.

I am a humble learner and I will share with you all whatever i have learnt and you share with me your immense knowledge that is reflected in the way you write, Subhan Allah.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: N. Truth Seeker on February 11, 2011, 01:26:58 am
MashAllah brother, may Allah accept your Hajj.  It's an experience to remember.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: salaam2011 on February 11, 2011, 05:38:11 pm
Thanks brother for your kind words.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: salaam2011 on February 11, 2011, 06:02:12 pm
It has become a cliche among many Muslims that Hadith shows us the way to do Salah and not in the Quran. From Dr. Gargs reading that I will discuss below it proves this claim is wrong.

Ther are about 1.4 million Ahadith, and so they give us a complete, unified, method of
Salat  (The answer is a resounding NO!

Hazrat Anas said: The Prophet (S) used to do a new Wudhu (ablution) for every
Namaz. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 35)
- Contradiction - Hazrat Ibn Abbas said: Rasool (S) slept for a while – went to the Masjid
and prayed (‘offered’ Namaz) without Wudhu. (Bukhari, Kitabul Wudhu)
- The Sahaba of Rasool (S) used to ‘perform’ Namaz without Wudhu after waking up
from sleep. (Muslim with Fathil Mulhim pg 500)

Hazrat Ayesha said, “You (narrators) have made us donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I used
to be lying in front on the rug while Rasoolullah prayed. (Muslim vol 2 pg 111)
- Bukhari (Kitab-us-Salat, vol 1 pg 93) narrates four Ahadith that the Rasool (S) used to
raise his hands up to the ears before bowing and also on rising from ‘Attahayyaat --.’
Why don’t the majority of Muslims do it?
- Rasoolullah used to combine Zuhr, ‘Asr, Maghrib and ‘Isha prayers without duress or
travel. (Muwatta 51, Muslim vol 2 pg 265) Why can't we do it? Because of other
contradictory Ahadith and the Fuqaha, the 'Jurists

Rasoolullah never used to raise hands in prayers except when praying for rains.
(Bukhari vol 1 page 125)
- He always raised hands during any du'a. (References too many to point)
- Rasoolullah used to offer prayers with shoes on. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 55) [Can we? The
Mullah drives out even a non-Muslim from the Masjid if he is wearing shoes]
- Sahaba used to pray even when bleeding from an arrow. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 32, Ibn
Majah, Muslim, Nisaai & many other sources)
- Oozing of blood from anywhere in the body nullifies Wudhu or Salat. (Same sources
and Fuqaha)
- Hazrat Anas states that Rasool (S) used to pray the briefest complete Namaz. (Muslim
vol 2 pg 86)
-
Abu Saeed Khadri narrates: Rasoolullah’s prayer used to be so long that supposing the
noon prayer has begun. A man walks to the graveyard of Baqee’, comes back home,
makes ablution and goes to the Masjid. And he finds him still leading the first raka’at
(unit). (Muslim vol 2 pg 48)

So, this is what the Hadith teaches us about Salat:
1. If you have been snoring in sleep, you need not do Wudhu. Sorry, you do need
Wudhu.
2. Cooked food will break your ablution, but, the roasted goat won’t.
3. Bleeding does not spoil Wudhu or prayers. Sorry, it does. 4. If there is no ejaculation,
bath is not necessary. Sorry, it is necessary. 5. You can combine the noon, afternoon,
evening and night prayers. Sorry, you cannot. 6. Don’t raise your hands for du’a. Do
raise your hands for du’a. 7. Before Rukoo’, raise your hands to the shoulders. No, don’t.
8. Pray two units after ‘Asr. No, don’t. 9. You can pray with your child in your lap. You
can’t do that (FIQH) 10. You can keep climbing up and down the stairs during Namaz.
(No way! FIQH) 11. Only Al-Fatiha is enough for Namaz. Sorry, it’s not enough. 12.
‘Allahhumma’ can be read aloud. No, it cannot be read aloud. But, you can pray
without it. No, never! You can’t pray without it. 13. You may curse the Satan during
Namaz and pray for others. No, never!14. Say anything after At-Tahiyyat that you want.
No, only say this and this. 15. Kill anyone passing in front of the Namazis, but leave alone
Hazraat Abdullah Ibn Abbas and Sa’d bin Abi Waqas. 16. If a woman, donkey, or dog
passes from in front, the Namaz is broken. But if your wife is lying down on your prayer
rug right in front, never mind.
So, this is the Salat or Namaz of Hadith. Can you pray at all according to Hadith? If you
claim Hadith tells you the method of Namaz. Contradictions and confusion where is the clarity ?

(ref: dual islam by Dr. Barq)


-


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Zeynab on February 12, 2011, 08:22:45 am
Very informative piece.    I am sure all those hadith followers who staunchly support the notion that "hadith teaches salaat" never observe these rules of hadith concerning prayers. Yet they support it.  They preach what they don't practice, that's because the preaching is wrong. 

Many thanks brother.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on September 13, 2011, 12:27:37 am
I like this article of yours so much sister Zeynab that no matter how many times I read it, I find it just as refreshing. 

Also, has anyone ever asked our "scholars" if Hadith is as important as the Hadithists portray, why did it start being collected & compiled 200 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh), why not immediately after his death or during his lifetime?  We know that didn't happen, why?  For 200 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh), how did people practice their faith without Hadith?  I've tried asking this question many times.  Response?  Beating around the bush with irrelevant babblings or calling me a "deviant."   teethsmile  these guys are comical, really.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Zeynab on September 13, 2011, 12:45:42 am

Also, has anyone ever asked our "scholars" if Hadith is as important as the Hadithists portray, why did it start being collected & compiled 200 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh), why not immediately after his death or during his lifetime?  We know that didn't happen, why?  For 200 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh), how did people practice their faith without Hadith?  I've tried asking this question many times.  Response?  Beating around the bush with irrelevant babblings or calling me a "deviant."   teethsmile  these guys are comical, really.

I had put more or less the same query on our post Hadeeth and Salaah. (http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=25.0)  I also asked many of those who were just too quick to pick up a fight.  Their only answer was a very untruthful one, claiming that Hadith was around during those 200 years but hadn't yet been compiled systematically.  Well, in other words it means that the deviations were gradually building up during the reign of the Ummayads enforcing the Hadith culture, it was officialized during the time of time of Ummayad ruler Omar bin Abdel Aziz and widespread compilations with additional lies & story-telling were formally established as an indispensable part of Islam during the Abbasid rule who made these Persian Hadith compilers their guests with the green light to carry on with their thuggery. 


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on September 13, 2011, 12:56:04 am
Yeah, it was basically during the Abbasid reign that this shaitaani was established.   Though the Ummayads encouraged and started it, it was until then pretty haphazard.  If the Abbasids had taken a firm stance and perceived its trend of falsehoods and its horrific long term consequences, the villainy of Hadith would have ended right there.  But unfortunately it was only political gain these dynasties were interested in, not  preserving true Islamic values.  They couldn't change the Quran, so they locked it up and began using the Hadith.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Zeynab on September 13, 2011, 12:56:58 am
Exactly ..


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: abbottonian on June 02, 2013, 08:24:27 pm
As-salaam Alaikum
Sister Zeynab 
This is a request to all sisters and brothers in Islam.
I was a Sunni Muslim about 15 years before when there was not much Internet available in my country and then the broadband came and I was able to seek knowledge about my Deen through different contemporary scholars and some of the traditional scholars too.Every one was trying to ridicule each other and every one presented his own thoughts based on different Hadith and every one was translating Qur'aan as he wished.Most of the so called scholars stated that Quran is an "AJMALI" (I do not know the exact English for this Arabic word but may be Concise or synoptic)  as there were some hidden meanings of verses and Hadith and Sunnah explains. Qur'aan then I wondered why would God send a book which is not understandable by common person? and if I am unable to understand it by myself then  is this the last guidance for mankind and so many other questions arose in my mind.Then I read more and more Qur'aan with meanings and tried my best to understand and follow.Then I met a friend who gave me a booklet which had Hadith with references and I was surprised to know that the Hadith mentioned in that tiny booklet were completely unbelievable portraying the Prophet as a sex maniac and a cruel person and blaming the companions as disobedient to the Prophet and placing women alongside dogs and pigs.so on a so forth.Since that time I call myself only Muslim and if someone asked me what my school of thought was? I will simply say Quraan. Now I have a plan to expose as much I can the falsehood of Hadith but I do not have enough material.
I would therefore request you and all who have any material of false Hadith to simply provide me references only and not the complete text,so as to enable me to find the texts and place in front of as many Imams to refute their claim that Bukhari et.al can  be trusted.
I will be waiting anxiously for references.
May the peace and blessing of Allah be on all the truth seekers.
Thank you     


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on June 02, 2013, 09:18:04 pm
Walaikum as-Salam.  Very interesting brother.  I agree and respect your goal.

In our Hadith section we have put up quite a big bunch ahadith that clearly clash with Quranic principles, no second thoughts on that.  I will go through them and put up the points, InshAlalh, to indicate how they clash with the Quran.  In fact, if you check our Hadith section containing criticism and exposure of specific hadiths, you will find that we have already included their nature of violations against Quranic principles.   In the past I have confronted the imams & hadith lovers many times by presenting before them several ahadith and also showing the the Quranic verses that refute those ahadith.  But I found that it's impossible to guide them.  Their minds are too preconditioned and shut to logic and ethics.  It reminds me of the Verse 28:56 (Surah Al-Qasas) of the Noble Quran, I quote:  "Lo! thou (O Muhammad) guidest not whom thou lovest, but Allah guideth whom He will. And He is Best Aware of those who walk aright."  Allah guides only those who make efforts to seek His guidance and make themselves worthy of it.  The imams and their disciples are doing everything to turn away from the Quran.  They don't even accept it as an independent and standalone Book by categorically claiming that the Quran cannot be understood without the Hadith even though Allah has confirmed that His Final Message is "perfected" and "completed"  (V.5:3).  How and why would Allah guide such people?

Just to brief you on my experience of the same quest, they have 5 standard excuses which are:

(1) They commonly use the translation issue as a scapegoat claiming hadith translations don't express the right meanings, even though I showed them several hadiths in Arabic with detailed analysis which expressed the same concept as their English translations. 

(2) They often claim an improper hadith as "da'eef" or "unauthentic" or "fabricated" yet maintain it inside the "sahih" collections also utilizing it for Shariah laws but with no explanation why it's in a 'sahih' collection if they themselves recongize it as"da'eef" or "unauthentic" ??

(3) They often bring the issue of isnad to authenticate a bad hadith.  No matter how much it clashes with the Quran, but if the isnad sound okay to them, they will blindly accept it as correct even though they realize that isnad is no foolproof evidence and anyone can construct an isnad in just a few minutes that might be seemingly correct yet a total forgery. 

(4) They often try to justify a bad hadith with references to other ahadith which is a very incorrect method of analysis. Since the entire Hadith institution is highly suspicious, tainted and controversial, therefore one hadith cannot testify for another hadith.  Analogically, that would be like one thief testifying for another in a court of law and would be considered felon.  Their references should be either from the Noble Quran, or reliable historical data or common logic.  But the imams don't accept this argument.

(5) Their final and most common reaction is to fly into a rage and call those who disagree with hadith, "munkir" or "deviant," not realizing that they are themselves drowned in glaring deviance.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: abbottonian on June 03, 2013, 06:05:34 pm
Assalam Alaikum
Thank you very much sister Heba for your elaborate reply.
I apologize for not having reviewed my post before posting because of the limited time due to electricity outages here.
My last paragraph "I would therefore request you and all who have any material of false Hadith to simply provide me references only and not the complete text,so as to enable me to find the texts and place in front of as many Imams to refute their claim that Bukhari et.al can not be trusted."
 It should have been "to refute their claim that Bukhari et.al can be trusted"
Would it be possible to remove NOT from the sentence? so as to set the meanings right.
Your help regarding providing me with references of such Hadith which you mentioned discussing with Imams would highly be appreciated and I am hopeful that I will be able to bring a few people back on track Insha Allah to the path of glorious Qur'aan
Stay Blessed
Asif Raza


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: Heba E. Husseyn on June 03, 2013, 08:47:14 pm
Yes brother.  You can edit your posts as many times as you like by clicking the "modify" button on top of your post.  After making the changes, simply click 'save.'


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: abbottonian on June 04, 2013, 04:49:41 pm
SALAM ALAIKUM
Thank you sister Heba I have edited my post.
Regarding uploading a profile picture I did exactly what you described  but I could not find the 3rd option for  uploading  picture from my hard disk.Any suggestion?
Allah Bless you.


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadeeth disturbing
Post by: N. Truth Seeker on June 04, 2013, 05:34:46 pm
SALAM ALAIKUM   .......

Regarding uploading a profile picture I did exactly what you described  but I could not find the 3rd option for  uploading  picture from my hard disk.Any suggestion?
Allah Bless you.

Walaikum Salam brother.   I have explained it further at the Forum Feedback Board with screen photos so you might find it simpler. 

Here is the link for that post.
http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?topic=4133.msg13845#new


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadith disturbing
Post by: guest1162 on September 30, 2018, 09:14:26 am
Salam
Very thought provoking discussions.
Another damage that Hadith does is make Muslims sectarians. All sects pay lip service to the word 'Hadith' however, they reject other sect's Hadith.
The Hadith prophesying about the Muslim Umma will be divided into 72 sects and only one of these sects will be the guided one, actually gives legitimacy to sectarian Muslims to keep clinging to their sect believing that by a stroke of great luck they are fortunate enough to be born in the right sect. This Hadith gives them the legitimacy to actually cling to their sect while rejecting Ayat 6:159 إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ ۚ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْعَلُونَ


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadith disturbing
Post by: N. Truth Seeker on September 30, 2018, 02:40:24 pm

Walaykum Salam and welcome to MV, brother.   You are absolutely right.  That hadith in particular is one of the very weird ones with wrong teachings that have had a very far-reaching and negative impact on our Ummah.  In the process, Muslims completely ignore the Quranic Verse 6:159 you rightly quoted which makes the condemnation of sectarianism crystal clear by the Divine Power.  But unfortunately to most Muslims at present, the hadith is their prime source of information while they view the Noble Quran as insignificant.   I seek refuge in Allah Almighty from the misguidance of the human mind.


 


Title: Re: The reason I personally found many Ahadith disturbing
Post by: guest1162 on September 30, 2018, 05:29:32 pm

Walaykum Salam and welcome to MV, brother.   You are absolutely right.  That hadith in particular is one of the very weird ones with wrong teachings that have had a very far-reaching and negative impact on our Ummah.  In the process, Muslims completely ignore the Quranic Verse 6:159 you rightly quoted which makes the condemnation of sectarianism crystal clear by the Divine Power.  But unfortunately to most Muslims at present, the hadith is their prime source of information while they view the Noble Quran as insignificant.   I seek refuge in Allah Almighty from the misguidance of the human mind.


 
Thanks Brother