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On Fate and Destiny

July 07, 2020, 11:23:26 am N. Truth Seeker: InshAllah, vaccine will come but might take a bit of time.
July 07, 2020, 11:22:43 am Heba E. Husseyn: Exactly ... !
July 07, 2020, 11:22:10 am Zeynab: World stuck in a pandemic desperately needs a vaccine.
July 07, 2020, 11:21:18 am N. Truth Seeker: lol true.
July 07, 2020, 11:20:59 am N. Truth Seeker: Very soon it will be neck deep.
July 07, 2020, 11:20:23 am Heba E. Husseyn: Dr. Fauci in US says country is knee-deep in pandemic.
May 30, 2019, 06:15:49 am Zeynab: Alhudulilah, yes sister Ruhi.  Time flies in this fleeting world.  May Allah The Almighty accept our hard work in the permanent world.  That's the real success.
May 30, 2019, 03:43:58 am Ruhi_Rose: Jumaa-tul-widaa (farewell to Ramadan) tomorrow Friday 31.  How time flies!  Ya Allah, keep us close to Your mercy.
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Author Topic: On Fate and Destiny  (Read 1010 times)
TEAM MUSLIM VILLA The Avid Reader | Mom of 3 cute rascals
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« on: June 22, 2008, 06:41:57 pm »

Indeed, we are supposed to lead our lives feeling that way as this is how Allah intended for us to operate as. And He has given us conscience to judge between right and wrong, hence the Verses you quoted. Yet, whatever we do based upon our consciences is preordained by Allah.

On reading this thread carefully I think brother you are saying the same thing as sister zeynab and br. pt, except that you are coming around to it in a slightly different way.  As I see it, here's where you differ - when we feel that we can live our lives as we desire, it's not just a feeling that arises within us from nowhere, but it's Allah who has given us that feeling because He has genuinely put that characteristic within us.  The proof of that has been stated by Allah Himself by confirming the existence of human conscience.  Those who think that they're leading a free life independent of Allah are in gross error.  This just isn't true.  Freedom is there but it's with the total consent of Allah and certainly He can change that anytime He wants.  When you rightly stated: "Yet, whatever we do based upon our consciences is preordained by Allah"  - it's our intentions and actions that are the basis of this pre-ordainment. 

However, I have a slight disagreement with reference to your following quote.

I believe there are two levels to this. And the Verses are there to indicate both. On an earthly and humanly level, we are made to feel we have free will, we have no choice but to lead ourlives making our decisions in life.

Unless I've understood you wrong, I wouldn't go for this theory of 'two levels.'  If on an earthly and humanly level we are made to feel free and yet in reality we are not free because of an already strict pre-ordainment on a different basis other than our own actions, then this would basically imply that human life persists in the shadows of deception.  But we know this isn't true.  Allah has put before us His facts and wonders in very clear terms for us to understand correctly.  Then only can we make efforts to improve ourselves.  If the human mind was inherently designed by the Divine Power to misunderstand its fate or creation, then that would nullify the concept and purpose of being questioned in the Hereafter.  This would also imply absolving humans of their resposibilities which in turn would erase the concepts of 'guidance' or 'misguidance.'  Such a scenario would make life quite purposeless.  Again, we know this is not true at all.  Allah has said that the creation of the earth, the universe and the creation of every being has a purpose.  It is to fulfil this purpose that Allah has given humans the freedom to act so that His Judgment will also be based on a purpose. 

That strict pre-ordainment of fate that you refer to would apply for animals, not humans.  It's on this basis that animals will not be questioned for their deeds in the Hereafter, because the Divine Power has created animals intellectually in such a way that they aren't capable of exercising pre-meditated evil like humans. 

I think of it this way:  If we are writing an exam and our teacher stands before us, watching us write, the teacher would know to what extent we're writing correctly and where we err.  Yet, the teacher watches us write silently though it's in his power to point out our mistakes.  The reason why the teacher watches us write silently is not because he doesn't know how to correct us nor because he is physically unable to warn us, but because the teacher's intervention would negate the purpose of this test.  It's much the same regarding the path of life, except that Allah's sovereignity works in a much wider sense that this little example I stated.  A huge part of His domain consists of the unseen.  Therefore, unlike a teacher who doesn't know the future and who doesn't have the authority to guide his students while they write an exam, Allah knows the future and has complete authority.  Hence there are times when He steps in to make changes in our lives.  He steps in (or intervenes) with a purpose which could be a test, or any other positive or negative occurence with a reason.  Often this reason is a consequence / outcome of our own deeds.  Sometimes the reason could be different, hard for us to discern at that point, but nonetheless the reason is there.  The lack of ability of the human mind to comprehend the unseen does not mean that Allah's pre-ordainment of fate does not have a fair reason and purpose.

And on the other hand we have Verses that are from the view of Allah's infinite power and grasp of each and every past and present and future moments. This is so that we may take advise and ponder on them to grow in wisdom, the first type helps us to make right deicisons and the second type helps us to surrender to the destiny of Allah.

I suppose this is what she meant by stating that Allah's intervention into our lives is by His choice.  He has given us the ability to conduct our lives as per our conscience, then He judges its consequences accordingly, and He has the right & power to intervene and change matters for us at any time He desires.  The important thing to remember is - every act of Allah has a reason based on justice.  Whether or not we are able to perceive, know or understand that reason, it's there and known to Him in full. 

It is also interesting to notice how Allah sometimes speaks of occurances of the Day of Judgement in the past tense as if it has already and happened and finished.

Yes, many future occurences in the Quran are described in terms as though already accomplished, many of which have already come true and many will by His command at whatever time He deems right.  This includes the prophecies of the Quran. 

Assalam Alaikum and peace dear brother Smiley
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