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On Fate and Destiny

July 07, 2020, 11:23:26 am N. Truth Seeker: InshAllah, vaccine will come but might take a bit of time.
July 07, 2020, 11:22:43 am Heba E. Husseyn: Exactly ... !
July 07, 2020, 11:22:10 am Zeynab: World stuck in a pandemic desperately needs a vaccine.
July 07, 2020, 11:21:18 am N. Truth Seeker: lol true.
July 07, 2020, 11:20:59 am N. Truth Seeker: Very soon it will be neck deep.
July 07, 2020, 11:20:23 am Heba E. Husseyn: Dr. Fauci in US says country is knee-deep in pandemic.
May 30, 2019, 06:15:49 am Zeynab: Alhudulilah, yes sister Ruhi.  Time flies in this fleeting world.  May Allah The Almighty accept our hard work in the permanent world.  That's the real success.
May 30, 2019, 03:43:58 am Ruhi_Rose: Jumaa-tul-widaa (farewell to Ramadan) tomorrow Friday 31.  How time flies!  Ya Allah, keep us close to Your mercy.
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Author Topic: On Fate and Destiny  (Read 1010 times)
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« on: June 23, 2008, 08:05:58 pm »

Salaam Alaikum to all Smiley

Brother Ace, sorry for not yet quoting that verse from the Quraan I promised which expresses all evil comes from us and all good comes from Allah.  I haven't yet found it.  However, I won't forget to post it however long it takes, InshAllah.

But I would like to quote a set of other Quraanic verses that I already had in my file, which make it crystal clear that human mind is ordained by the Divine Power to be able to exercise its own discretion.  I know it's a very long post.  But I hope you'll have the patience to go through it in your own good time.

However before I go directly to those verses .. for the benefit of readers I'd like to elaborate / add / reiterate on your response to sister rose's post.  And sister rose, thanks much for your very thoughtful input.

Why did Allah choose to pre-set every move of ours and everything we do and yet make us feel like we are leading our lives to achieve something? Only He knows.

As I had stated earlier, Allah has predestined everything on the basis of the merits and demerits of every soul.  Therefore I again admit you are right, just that you're omitting the different characteristics of every soul which is known beforehand to Allah on the grounds of which He predestines the fate of each soul. 

Besides, it's apparently a misinterpretation to think that "we feel we are leading our lives to achieve something" or we feel free to lead our lives.  Only those who are secularists or rejecters of the Quraan can feel that way.

As for me, and all believers I'm sure, feel that our lives are totally & completely controlled by Allah, in that, He decides to reward or punish us according to our belief in Him and according to our practical acts and intentions.  And we can do nothing to change that decision.  The only thing about which He has given us awareness & ability is to either strive for guidance or reject it.  If a soul makes itself perceiving and reflective, it comes close to guidance and Allah gives that soul more of it.  If a soul prefers to remain hostile and challenging, he never gets to understand guidance because of his own pride and Allah leaves him confounded.  Thus, granting guidance to the former and denying it to the latter is Allah's preordained decision on the basis of the humble efforts of the former and the arrogance of the latter.  Though Allah knows best, I'm very sure those verses I quoted of Surah Ar-Raad (13:11), Al-Balad (90:7-12) and Ash-Shams (91:7-10) explain this aspect.

But what we do know is He exist and we have no option but to submit to Him by trying to follow the path shown by religion, yet whatever we do is preordained.

Yes, very very true.  Personally, I would only need to complete this by including what I stated above.

Apparently your ideology / statements are in accordance with the lectures of Harun Yahya on "flow of fate" ditto.  As I know you're a fan of Harun Yahya and so am I.  However, unlike you, I realize that even our favorite spiritualists are human beings and they too can err like us.  Harun Yahya goes 50/50 on Quraan and Hadith.  The good thing about him is that he keeps the Quraan and Hadith very separate from each other.  However, when he starts talking about the Hadith, he goes totally berserk.  Out of that 50% of his lectures / interpretations that cover the Quraan, he has said a lot of nice and correct things.  But he has also made some vital omissions.  These omissions might not be intentional, but simply because of his lack of ability to remember and piece together the entire Quraanic information on many of the topics he has discussed.  Such human errors are natural and happen with all of us.  HY is not infallible either.

I quote below HY's version on this topic.  Those portions of the Quraanic injunctions that he has included in his work have been elucidated beautifully.  But he hasn't completed his elucidation.  That's because he has overlooked most of those Quraanic verses I have quoted at the end of this post which strongly reflect on the issue of fate and human discretion, either directly or indirectly.  Accordingly, you are overlooking them too.

The Flow of Fate Cannot be Changed

Destiny is God's perfect knowledge of all events past or future as a single moment. A majority of people question how God can already know events that have not yet been experienced and this leads them to fail in understanding the fact of destiny. However, "events not yet experienced" are only so for us. God is not bound by time or space, for He Himself has created them. For this reason, past, future, and present are all the same to God; for Him everything has already taken place and finished. 

This is true for everyone and every incident. For instance, God has created everyone with a certain lifetime and everyone's moment of death is determined as to its location, time and form in the sight of God. If, in the years to come, the lifetime of a person is extended with timely interventions in the genes, this would not mean that this event defeated that person's destiny. This simply means the following: God gave this man a long life and He made the completion of gene mapping a means for his life being long. The discovery of gene map, that person's living in that era, that person's life being extended by scientific means are all his destiny. All is determined in the sight of God before this person is born into the world. 

Similarly, a person whose fatal sickness is cured through the discoveries made within the scope of this project has again not changed his destiny. That is because it is this person's destiny to recover from this illness by means of this project. Consequently, completion of the human genome and the fact that man will be able to intervene in the genetic makeup, do not mean confronting the destiny created by God. On the contrary, this way, humanity follows the developments created for them by God, explores and benefits from the information created by God. If man lives 120 years thanks to these scientific developments, this is surely a lifetime decreed for him by God, this is why he lives so long. 

In brief, expressions like "I defeated my destiny", "I changed my destiny" or "I intervened in my destiny" are consequences of ignorance caused by not knowing the fact of fate. On the other hand, a person's using these expressions is also predestined; how, when and under which conditions he will make these statements are all determined in the sight of God.

There reaches a point we have to leave it to Allah and just contrinue worshipping Him.

Of course brother.  This fact goes without saying.  Believers shouldn't even be emphasising such accepted facts to one another unless one believer doubts another's believer's faith & trust in Allah.  And I'm sure a genuine believer would never stoop to such a serious suspicion toward one of their own. 

I don't know how many times I must have clarified that the unseen occupies a huge portion of Allah's infinite domain.  No matter how great a scholar or scientist one might be, and no matter how great we think them to be, at the end of the day the truth is that their "vast" knowledge is still very, very little compared to the whole lot about the unseen that they don't know.  This too is a preordainment of Allah.  If you can recall Ayat-al-Kursi, this very point is stated in clear terms right there when Allah says: "He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will." (2:255)  Such a preordainment concerning knowledge of the unseen is decided and its boundaries marked for us entirely at the discretion of Allah with no links to righteousness or unrighteousness.  But for personal reward & punishment of every individual, Allah does monitor their efforts to acquire righteousness though He already knows the outcome of every soul's efforts.  Yet He allows us to do our deeds as per our perception so that Judgment pronounced in favor or against us on the Last Day will be a just one when we will have no excuses to think that we've been wronged by Allah's Judgment.

As stated in numerous verses of the Quraan including the verse quoted above, there are plenty of facts and elements of the unknown that we will never know, and this too is a part of Allah's ordinance designed by Him.  We can NEVER defeat it no matter how hard we try. 

It is for this reason that I've also mentioned in a couple of posts on this board that secularists who call for debates challenging to prove Allah's existence are only contradicting themselves.  Allah has made it clear in the Quraan that we cannot see Him and neither can we prove His existence through regular arguments as one would prove a matter in court.  Allah has made it clear that belief and trust in Him must come through Faith, not by seeing Him literally - "Wait they for naught else than that Allah should come unto them in the shadows of the clouds with the angels ? Then the case would be already judged. All cases go back to Allah (for judgment)." (2:210)"  The beauty of Allah's Light comprises of the unseen for every living soul on earth.  It's only Prophet Moses (pbuh) who saw the Light of Allah just for a very short while.  Yet the impact of that overwhelming and awesome experience left Moses unconscious on the ground!   Thus, if a believer proves Allah's existence with concrete proofs, this will actually be a victory for his opponent because it will mean that Allah has contridicted Himself by not keeping His existence Unseen.  But there's no such thing as a contradiction in the Quraan.  Anything and everything that comprises of the unseen by His will (including the beautiful Light of Allah) will remain unseen to the human eyes till He wishes to reveal the hidden. 

But .. the point I am upholding i.e. the link between choice of human actions and destiny is not really a matter of the unseen as Allah has clarified it so many times in the Quraan.  After Allah has elucidated a certain point so clearly, it would be wrong of us to sit back with our arms folded using the "unseen" as an excuse not to reflect on that issue. .


OK .. now coming directly to the Glorious Quraan ..

First of all, verses from Surahs Ar-Raad, Al-Balad and Ash-Shams I quoted earlier clearly indicate the God given choice to humans for leading their lives, thus making Divine Judgment having a concrete purpose.  Though you haven't accepted this bit, I observed that you were not able to give any reasons for rejecting it either except for your causeless instinct for accepting the rigidity of fate.  This too is a natural phenomenon of many a human minds Smiley   Anyhow, there's nothing wrong with that unless that instinct has an element of sense, and surely your instinct does contain a lot of validity .. except for your single omission which is however very important.

I'll proceed with some more verses of the Quraan ..

Say: Each one doth according to his rule of conduct, and thy Lord is Best Aware of him whose way is right. (17:84  Al-Isra or Bani Israel)

The above verse is a plain and simple statement directly from Allah that man is responsible for choosing his rules of behaviour.  Of course, reward or punishment awaits at the discretion of Allah, Who is constantly watching the conduct of His slaves.

Allah tasketh not a soul beyond its scope. For it (is only) that which it hath earned, and against it (only) that which it hath deserved. (2:286  Al-Baqrah)

Well .. as for the above verse, how much more clear do we expect Allah to be to convey to us that fate is an outcome of what we earn through our own deeds.  Tests, trials and tribulations come from Allah in measure, and in accordance with our ability to handle them.  But our reactions and method of handling these tasks and tests is our own choice, which is what we earn for ourselves for Salvation or Retribution from the Divine Power.

No soul knoweth what is kept hid for them of joy, as a reward for what they used to do. (32:17  As-Sajdah)

In the above verse, Allah mentions about the reward every individual might get from Allah for their deeds ("for what they used to do").  The meaning becomes clear with the slightest of reflection - reward of Allah brings joy and this reward is what we earn through our own deeds that please Allah.  Thus, we pick the good deeds to reap that reward.

And whosoever striveth, striveth only for himself, for lo! Allah is altogether Independent of (His) creatures. (29:6  Al-Ankabut)

Verse 29:6 is self-explanatory.  We strive only for our own benefit to elevate our souls.  Allah has already stated that He is independent of us.  Obviously the effort to strive got to come from within us.

Now, the following from Surah Al-Ahzab is a very dynamic verse ..

Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool. (33:72  Al-Ahzab)

You are an intelligent brother.  I don't think I need to explain this verse to you.  It plainly and so rightly implies that the fact man has proven himself a tyrant and a fool is because of his own shortcomings.  If Allah had given man no other choice but to prove himself tryrannical and foolish, then in all probability perhaps Allah wouldn't have decided to reveal this verse for it wouldn't have served any purpose.

Say: Lo! Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth unto Himself all who turn (unto Him),
Who have believed and whose hearts have rest in the remembrance of Allah. Verily in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest! (13:27-28  Ar-Raad)

These two verses of Surah Ar-Raad are exactly what I have been telling all along.  Here's how I would explain these verses (and I don't think there can be any other way of explaining them because they're really so clear) ---- Allah guides and abandons whom He likes.  He guides only those who reach out to Him and who seek comfort from having faith in Him. 

For those who refute this concept, I would ask two questions:

When a person reaches out to Allah or rejects Allah .. 

1) does that person take this step on his own on, based on his conscience or lack of it as stated in Surah Ash-Shams?

2)Or, is he forcibly driven to it by Allah without giving him a chance to exercise his choice?   

I don't think one needs to be a super genius to say that No.1 is the correct answer.

Say (unto them): If ye possessed the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, ye would surely hold them back for fear of spending, for man was ever grudging. (17:100  Al-Isra or Bani Israel)

The above is another very interesting verse.  Please read it carefully.  The central theme of this verse is "Mercy."  Allah makes a clear distinction between the actions of Himself and that of mankind on the issue of dispensing generosity regarding mercy.  Allah says that if mankind was given the control of the same quantum of mercy which is owned by the Divine Power, humans would definitely not exercise that mercy on each other as generously as Allah showers it upon us.  This is because Allah has bestowed on humans their own instincts for making decisions, and of their own choice, humans usually choose the wrong decisions.

He whom Allah scorneth, there is none to give him honour. Lo! Allah doeth what He will. (22:18  Al-Hajj)

This verse might again make you think the needlessness of man's effort to achieve his goal.  But as per my perception, Allah does not mean that at all.  It is true as the verse mentions that when Allah decides to scorn someone, no one else by their efforts can grant respect to that person.  But the important question here relating to the link between fate and human choice is - why does Allah decide to scorn some and not scorn others?  Or, does Allah decide to scorn a person for no reason except for designing his fate without giving the ability to accept or reject guidance?  The answer is NO.  The correct perception would be, Allah decides to scorn some and not others because some make efforts to please Him and some don't.  As simple as that.

And He giveth you of all ye ask of Him, and if ye would count the bounty of Allah ye cannot reckon it. Lo! man is verily a wrong-doer, an ingrate. (14:34  Ibrahim)

Referring to above v.14:34 .. why does Allah refer to man as a "wrong-doer" and an "ingrate?"  Is it because Allah has made man so stiff-necked that he cannot look around and choose gratitude instead of ingratitude?  Or, is it because man is by nature ungrateful and seldom offers thanks for Allah's infinite bounties bestowed on man?  The answer is ---- of course man is an ingrate by his own choice.

Lo! those for whom the word of thy Lord (concerning sinners) hath effect will not believe,
Though every token come unto them, till they see the painful doom.  (10:96-97  Yunus)

I am sure a quick reader would explain the meaning of the above verses as that Allah has preordained the fate of sinners and nothing can be done to change that.  But in the light of the complete information provided by the Quraan on fate, that explanation is part of the tafsir.  Leaving it there would be incomplete.  The other part of the explanation that precedes this is - Allah has preordianed the fate of sinners because He is aware of their entire course of life before they're born.  He already knows that they won't be attracted to Faith, and they'll make no efforts to reform their conscience.  Thus, they're doomed for which they only have themselves to blame and nothing can change that.

Whoso taketh Satan for a comrade, a bad comrade hath he. (4:38  An-Nissa)

Please note the grammar of the above verse.  To paraphrase it, Allah states that those who take Satan as their friend, indeed have a bad friend.  Are we supposed to think that Allah forces man to take Satan as their comrade through a rigidly preordained fate without giving man the choice to reject Satan?  The mere thought of it is absurd.  And the style of the Verse above is a clear indication that taking Satan as a friend is man's own choice.

There are many more verses throughout the Great Quraan that explain Allah's endless mercy and bounty on mankind, one of which being His decision of bestowing us with the capacity to perceive. 

But this post has already gotten too long.  Thanks for reading anyway.  Salaams and peace dear brother Smiley

May Allah (Subhan Wa'Tala) accept our efforts and grant us maximum guidance, ameen.
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