Who are more ridiculous, traditional 'Sunnis' or traditional 'Shiias'?

[Heba E. Husseyn]

Here are some excerpts consisting of both Sunni and Shiia perspectives from an Ahle-Bayt site.

I'll start with that disgusting Hadith that considers camel urine a health drink and it tells a big lie about the Prophet (pbuh) by falsely defaming him and making him look cruel.

Sahih Al Bukhari - Volume 7, Book 71, Number 590:

"Narrated Anas: “The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine. So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded ...."

Okay .. now a Sunni guy comes up and says that a Shiia guy is making fun of him for having such narrtions in their Hadith literature.  Indeed that's understandable.  The above Bukhari Hadith is not just a hilarious lie but also a vicious lie.  Now, unless this Shiia guy was a 'Shiia' only on paper but in reality considered himself just a 'Muslim' with only the Quran as his guide, he was simply casting stones on others from a glasshouse.  This was exposed clearly than ever when a third person (obviously another Sunni) popped in to confirm just this but in the end his views turned out no less absurd than the feces and fart loving Shiia scholars.  The only difference is that the Sunnis are more crazy about pee while the Shiias have a greater penchant for crap and flatulence.  You'll know what this means.  Keep reading ..

I quote the response of the other Sunni guy as under.

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Why should a Shia person worry himself over such Hadith when the Shia Hadith have even more disturbing narrations in them?

Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi reports the following Hadith in his book “Manlaa Yahdurhul-Faqeeh” (For Him Who Has No Access to A Scholar):

“His (the Imam’s) feces are far better smelling than the fragnance of musk.” [Reported by Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Sa’eed al-Kufi who narrated from Ali b. al-Hasan b. Fidaal, from his father from Abul-Hasan Ali b. Musa al-Ridha] Source: “Manlaa Yahdurhul-Faqeeh” (For Him Who Has No Access to A Scholar), vol.4, page 418, narration # 5914.

And we also read what Grand Ayatollah Akhond Mulla Zainul-Abideen al-Galbaigani wrote in his book “Anwaar al-Wilayah”:

“There’s nothing (impure) in the urine of the infallibles: their blood, urine and feces (are free of) any filth or dirtiness…nor there is any stink in their urine or feces, rather both are like the Musk. Nay, (in fact) whoever drinks and eat their urine, feces and blood, Allah forbids fire on him, and cause him to enter paradise…the urine and feces of the Imams doesn’t carry impurities or stench, but they are like musk, and whoever drank their urine and feces and their blood, Allah will make Hell fire Haram on them and their admission to Heaven becomes must.” (Anwaar al-Wilayah, p.440).

In the most reliable Shia book of Hadith, Al-Kafi, we read the following:

Abu Jafar said: “For the Imam there are 10 signs: He is born pure and circumcized….and if he farts the smell is of musk.” (Al-Kafi 1/319 Book of Hujja - Chapter on Birth of Imam)

With such Hadith in their literature, we kindly ask the Shia to get off their high horse. Having said that, two wrongs do not make a right, and we are not saying that an absurdity in the Shia literature allows us to also have an absurdity in our literature. So why does the Ahlus Sunnah have such a Hadith in their books about the Prophet prescribing the Sahabah camel urine? The answer is as follows:

Urine therapy, alternatively called “Urotherapy” or “Urea Therapy”, has been utilized for many centuries. Even today, it is considered a very popular form of alternative medicine or homeopathic medicine, and is used to cure many pathological conditions, including edema, hormonal imbalances, and even cancer ....."

Unquote --



Yeah, the Shiia hadiths were no less deplorable than Bukhari's 'piss therapy.'  But don't get carried away by reading the last paragraph of what this Sunni guy has quoted above. 

Whatever positive or negative aspects medical science or hemeopathy has proven about urine, one thing they have NOT said is to drink anyone's raw urine, be it human or animal.  "Urotherapy" or "Urea therapy" does NOT mean pouring urine into a glass and drinking it like orange juice or coke.  When will our folks knock some sense into their heads?  Each time they try to search for an excuse to justify an obnoxious Sunni or Shiia Hadith, they end up sounding no less obnoxious than that Hadith itself. 

Many shieks and ulemas who've graduated from Islamic universities like Al-Azha etc. attempt to make the camel urine hadith acceptable by suggesting that according to present-day findings, horse urine contains the female hormone Estrogen which is used in various treatments.  From this perspective they try to claim that consumption of camel urine isn't far-fetched either.  Now come on folks!  Don't be retards!!   The very simple response that refutes such a ridiculous claim is as follows.  I've quoted excerpts of this clarification from our post Drinking Camel Urine - Disgraceful Hadith.

Quote --

The urine of all living beings is filthy and toxic with a big possibility of carrying numerous bacteria and deadly germs particularly in cases of kidney or urinary infections ....

.. those "ulemas" who try to justify this hadith by linking it to modern-day study of horse urine are surely talking through their hats and thus, they aren't even aware of the absurdity of their analogy.  It's true that according to modern findings, horse urine contains Estrogen (the female hormone often used for treating menopausal women).   However, these highly ignorant 'ulemas' need to be reminded of some important aspects regarding this issue.  The Estrogen acquired from horse urine is NOT supposed to be drunk raw.  Instead, it's made to go through numerous laboratory processes.  The substance Estrogen is segregated from the waste matter, processed and refined still further and then given to people who require it in microscopic quantities either in the form of capsules, caplets, patches or herbal medication.  Just because the urine of horses are found to contain Estrogen, that does NOT mean one should fill a cup with raw horse urine as it comes from the animal's bladder for drinking purposes.  That's obnoxius!

Therefore, whoever has written this hadith about drinking camel urine is ignorant and manipulative ....

Unquote --



Everyone is what they desire to be.  Hence, a 'Sunni' is a Sunni not a Muslim.  A 'Shiia' is a Shiia not a Muslim.  The qualities of a 'Muslim' (one who surrenders his purpose to Allah) are clearly described in the Quran and those qualities do not match with the man-made religions of Sunnism and Shiiasm.  In other words, the qualities of a Muslim as in the Glorious Quran are very different from those carrying the labels of all other faiths including 'Sunnism' and 'Shiiaism.' 

It's time for the Sunnis and Shiias to stop quarelling and killing each other and wasting their time relishing the taste of pee and crap.   Life is too short for such nonsense.  Instead they ought to pick up the Quran and reflect before it's too late.  With the passing of each day the time for leaving this world is coming closer.  Haven't these people ever pondered that what's gonna happen if their souls pass away in their sighings while they're wrapt up in such petty squabblings and have still not become 'Muslims' ?

[Ruhi_Rose]

Ufffff, taubah taubah!!!!!!   just readin this is givin me palpitations!  How can humans be so self-destructive.  And just look at what this guy says below ..... 

"and whoever drank their urine and feces and their blood, Allah will make Hell fire Haram on them and their admission to Heaven becomes must. (Anwaar al-Wilayah, p.440)."

First he passes his own orders trying to overrule the Quran and then his talks about drinking human blood which is outright Haram and cannibalism.  O my God!  just imagine the extent of violations - how much these people disbelieve in the Quran and disobey Allah's dictates.  The Quran says that no one but Allah decides the fate of every individual, righteous or unrighteous and this ayatollah guarantees Jannah to those who drink / eat urine, feces and blood of imams.  The Quran emphasises so much on cleanliness and these people talk of urine and feces like food and drink.  And to drink blood is absolutely Haram in the Quran.   Brother Hafeez Kazi is very correct when he wrote in one of his fine articles that most of these so-called alims (both Shiias and Sunnis) never even read the Quran. 

[Zainab_M]

OMG!  this is just too much.   That Bukhari hadith along with the quotes of ayatollah and other shiia imams would make a perfect bundle for the humor board .. or probably not becoz they sound like real rude jokes!

Thanks for the posting sister cat.  In order to know the extent of misguidance people indulge in, one has to see it.   Salaam and peace sister.

[AceOfHearts]

There is no such thing as "scholars" or "ulamas" They're adherants love them because it gives them things to venerate beside Allah as idols. The hardcore among the followers have God-like devotion to them. But as the Qur'an tells us, the Believers have greater love for Allah.

[Heba E. Husseyn]

I found another lie, a really serious one, so I thought I'd jot in down in this thread so that everyone can beware.  This one is from the Shiias.  No surprise.  The hardcores of both Sunnis & Shiias are running neck and neck.  We know that plenty of Sunni "ulemas" have mistranslated the Noble Quran to suit their whims and to make it compatible with various Sunni Hadiths.  Well, I also came across a piece of writing in the Introduction of the Shiia Hadith site, "A Bundle of Flowers" where the author (don't know who he is) has mentioned the members of Ahl-e-Bait (family members of the Prophet pbuh) to be Ar-rasikhuna fil'ilm (those deeply established in knowledge).  The author then wanted to show that this bit is mentioned in the Quran, although in truth it is not.  The Quran does clearly convey the concept of respecting the wives of the Prophet highly.  But there's no Quranic Ayat that categorically states that all members of the Prophet's (pbuh) family are "deeply established in knowledge."   This doesn't mean that the family members of the Prophet (pbuh) weren't knowledgeable.  Indeed many of them were.  But the Quran does not state this in so many words.  

To make people believe that the Quran does say this, the author of the introduction of this Shiia Hadith collection conveniently mistranslated Verse 3:7 of Surah Al-Imran.  Here's how he translated it.  

"... But no one knows its hidden meaning except Allah, and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge..." (Sura Al-I-Imran, No.3, verse 7).

According to this translator, "those who are firmly grounded in knowledge" refers specifically to the Prophet's Household.  

And now I'll post the real and accurate translation of the whole verse by Pickthall so it will be easy for the readers to see for themselves how people pass off wrong ideas by purposely distorting Quranic translations.  The underlined portion of Verse 3:7 has been mistranslated above by the Shiia author.

"He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed."  3:7  Al-Imran

It's now easy to perceive how that Shiia author has tried to trick the readers.  If you check the first translation highlighted in green, you will oberve that he has tried to combine two separate sentences of this Ayat to change its meaning and also left the quotation of the Ayat incomplete to misinform the readers.  

And now, here's the clarification.  In Verse 3:7, Allah says that the doubters (or those who don't have firm iman) try to selectively pick the allegorical verses of the Quran for explanation.  Thus, in the underlined portion  Allah says that no one knows the explanations of the allegorical verses except Allah.  Then there's a period.  And then, Allah says that those who are of "sound instruction" (learned or with knowledge) say that they accept the entire Quran from Allah and they believe in it.  The reference is to all knowledgeable and believing people which I'm sure includes the learned and believing people of the Ahl-e-Bait but it certainly does not refer exclusively to them.  

This was very definitely an intentional mistranslation and a distressful violation by the author who wrote the introduction of "A Bundle of Flowers."  

It's amazing how all such folks can sleep peacefully after purposely creating lies about the Message of Allah.  

I seek refuge in Allah.

[Ruhi_Rose]

O yeah, I can see what this guy is trying to do.  Really sad.  No segment of our Ummah seems to be free from the habit of lying & manipulating.  It's particularly annoying when they play around like this with the Noble Quran.  Unfortunately this isn't an uncommon game with them.  But Allah is watching.   

[Ruhi_Rose]

Btw ,, can anyone post a link for a list of Shiia Hadiths.  It's surprising that though there are plenty of sites for Sunni Hadiths, but none that I can find for Shiia ones.  I would like to gradually compare the two groups of Ahadith to get an idea which one is more preposterous.

[Zainab_M]

O dear!  this is a common mischief and I really cannot stand it esepecially when people make light of the translations of the Noble Quran and keep turning & twisting it the way they please.  It's really offensive.  May Allah make these people pay for this violation.   

[Zainab_M]

I think brother Pt has the Shiia Hadith collection links. 

[N. Truth Seeker]

Interesting thread.  Don't know how I missed it all this while.  You know, once you get down to detailed reading of Hadith, be it sunni or shiia, the absurdities are just too much to count.  You'll need a good calculator by your side to track the maths.  The only bit of difference I can personally suggest is that Shiia hadiths at large might be a bit more respectful than the Sunni hadiths.  The terrible ones quoted above on pee and sweat etc. are of course abominable.  But what I mean is, such uncouth ones in shiia collections are rarer than in the Sunni collections. And of course, sunni collections have lots of very vulgar ones too which again you'll not find in the shiia hadiths.   What I'm saying is, we can't debate whether it's the Sunni or Shiia hadith collections which are lacking greater in authenticity.  From that perspective both are the same .... both have almost 0% of truth.  But majority of the sunni falsehoods are a lot more crude and brash than the shiia falsehoods.  Lie is a lie, no matter who says it.  But a disrespectful lie is still more offensive than a polite lie.

Yes, sister Rose.  I can put up some of the links where you can get an idea of Shiia hadiths.  Keep your fingers crossed and don't build up any expectations.  If u r thinking that after reading the sunni hadiths, these may provide u with some relief, u will be profoundly disappointed      They are just 2 sides of the same coin.  Do by all means check them out to know their extent of manipulations compared to Bukhari & co.  But don't forget where they are all coming from together.  To uphold these man-written stories, both sunnis & shiias alike find the need to hamper with the translations of the Noble Quran and thus mistranslate Quranic Ayats as shown above by sister Heba.  This is a very old trick and the above is just one example.  But fortunately for us, we have the original Quran intact, Alhumdulilah, and with its help, the liars are caught with their hands inside the cookie jar.  But their shamelessness prevents them to quit lying.

Shiia Hadith collection websites

"A Bundle of Flowers"
http://www.al-islam.org/flowers/
 
Hadith al-Kafi
http://www.almujtaba.com/books/hadith/al-kafi/
 
Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/p.php?p=hadith&url=Collection
 
General collection of Shiia Hadith
http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/p.php?p=hadith&url=Collection
http://www.wilayatmission.com/Hadiths.html
http://www.al-shia.org/html/eng/hadith/360hadtich/02.html
 
The 40 famous Shiia Hadith
http://www.al-islam.org/fortyhadith/
 
Shiia version of the Hadith history
http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/p.php?p=hadith&url=Collection

And here's Mr. Bukhari & co. collection of sunni hadiths, which I'm sure you've seen earlier, but just for direct reference & comparison purposes

Bukhari
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/

Muslim bin Hajaj (Bukhari's student)
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/

[Heba E. Husseyn]

Transferring this to the Specific Hadith discussion board.

[Ozcan]

A few years ago a group of Turks who went to Hajj drank camel's urine. They fell ill and were taken to hospital by Saudis, this appeared in some newspapers. And yet the sunni ulema would never even consider discarding even this one particular hadith. At least admit that this particular hadith is fabrication. No, they can't do it. They know that if they did people might start doubting other hadiths as well.

[Heba E. Husseyn]

Really ??!!  So that means people are actually practicing these dangerous and deadly dictates of Hadith.  I'll try to search if I can find that story.  If you find the link do please post it.  It needs to be posted.  The world has the right to know the truth for the safety of their health & lives .. because the "ulemas" and imams just won't say it. 

[N. Truth Seeker]

Yes brother is right.  Here's the link plus story, in case it's removed from the web.  Happened in 2012.  They were hospitalized with high fever and abnormal levels of liver enzymes which can be very dangerous.  Additionally, I guess they must have also drank raw camel milk which is another source of viral infection that can be serious.  They also got affected with that serious virus.  Only God Almighty knows what long term adverse affects this episode will have on their health.



Story:ISTANBUL - Hürriyet Daily.



Two Turkish men were hospitalized on arrival to Turkey after drinking camel's milk and urine while on an umrah visit, daily Hürriyet reported.
 
The men believed the camel's milk and urine to be good for health, claiming it was written in a hadith. An imam, according to the Turkish men, also drank the milk and urine with them.
 
The visitors were hospitalized due to high fever and unusual levels of liver enzymes. Further tests revealed that the two men had been infected with the "alkhurma" virus, reportedly catching the virus from the milk.
 
The alkhurma virus is very dangerous and highly contagious and has a fatality rate of 25 to 35 percent, daily Hürriyet reported.
 
İhsan Özkes, a retired religious cleric and current member of the Republican People’s Party (CHP), denied the existence of any hadith that would encourage people to drink camel's milk and urine.
 
"Those who did drink it must have been ignorant," he said.

April/19/2012

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-men-hospitalized-after-drinking-camels-milk-urine-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=18808&NewsCatID=341

[Heba E. Husseyn]

Ahh, thanks brother TS.
Staggering and sordid! Just reading it got me dazed.  This is some information for readers.  InshAllah I'll also send it around to those in my email list, some of which are diehard hadithists. 

And many thanks brother Ozcan.