Registration of new members is currently closed. Guestbook opened for now. Guests who have questions may post at our guestbook. No lengthy debates please. Kindly note: MV is a place for serious learning through mutual consultation where we have zero tolerance for trouble-makers, narcissists and needless disputants. We simply stand for what is compatible with the Noble Quran regardless of titles such as "traditionalism" or "modernism." We have the right to our opinion just as you have the right to yours. All disagreements must be left at that. Final Judgement belongs to The Almighty.
June 03, 2023, 11:41:00 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Salaam alaycom

April 19, 2023, 04:55:46 am N. Truth Seeker: Ameen, ameen ya Allah.  Very comforting dua, Subhan'Allah.
April 17, 2023, 11:59:42 pm Heba E. Husseyn: Ameen ya Allah, You are the Greatest, the One and Only.  We are lost without You.  Please stay close to us my dearest Allah.  Ameen.

JazekAllah khair my sister Ruhi.  This du's is exhilerating.  SubhanAllah.
April 17, 2023, 11:56:51 pm Zainab_M: Ameen, ameen, my dearest Allah Jan, ameen.

Thank you for the excellent du'a sister Ruhi.  May Allah reward you.
April 17, 2023, 11:55:15 pm Ruhi_Rose: Night of Leilatul Qadr of Ramadan 1444 officially held on Monday night (Apr.17).

While making your supplications (du'a) on this beautiful Night of the Noble Quran, please remember our oppressed sisters and brothers in occupied Palestine, occupied Kashmir,  please pray to heal the wounds of our sisters and brothers in Yemen and our Rohingya Muslim sisters and brothers.  May Allah The Greatest, The One and Only,  accept our efforts, grant us purity and ease our way as we all gradually approach the end of our earthly road. Ameen.  May Allah The Almighty grant us maghfirah at our journey's end.  Ameen ya Rabb.
August 01, 2022, 08:48:12 pm Ruhi_Rose: As-Salam Alaykum MV guests. Just a reminder how time flies. We're already in the Islamic new year of 1444 month of Muharram, a very tragic time of our history. May The Almighty grant Hussein bin Ali and his comrades the best spot in Paradise for their unflinching courage to uphold the values of the Final Message, The Noble Quran.  Please read our post Ashura - who was Hussein? Also explore its related links.
August 01, 2022, 08:43:33 pm N. Truth Seeker: Walaykom Salam.  Ameen.
July 07, 2022, 04:02:47 pm Zainab_M: Eid-al-Adha expected on 10th Dhul Hijja 1443 (July 9th 2022, Saturday) Insh'Allah,.
June 30, 2022, 05:37:22 pm Heba E. Husseyn: Salaam all.  Today is 1st Dhul Hijja 1443 (corresponding to June 30, 2022).  Day of Arafah will be on 9th Dhul Hijja (July 8th) and Eid-al-Adha on 10th Dhul Hijja (July 9th). Fasting on the Day of Arafah is not obligatory, however it's a good day to observe a nafl fast for those healthy enough to do so.  Insh'Allah.
View Shout History
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Salaam alaycom  (Read 157 times)

Badges: (View All)
« on: March 23, 2013, 06:16:40 am »
Reply with quoteQuote Modify messageModify

Salaam everyone,

Im not too good at computers so please forgive me if this message comes out all over the show.

So basically for a year i have been drawing closer to Allah swt and wanted to do some deep study into who was Allah? i felt i didn't know Allah swt that well even though i prayed and fasted etc.

So i started reading the Quran and because i wasn't to sure on what was being said i would then  read the tasfir and hadieth and islamic books, practically all these books were full to the brim with OPINIONS with no fact what so ever.

For example i remember reading about the story of Adam and Eve and the author and many sheikhs were stating that because iblis was in the garden it was therefor not paradise and so it must have been a garden on earth???

The more study i did the more CONFUSED i got, it was like an endless circle of confusion, what was the truth? why were so many translations different? why was hadieth so conflicting? why were there thousands of websites on the craziness of Islam all related to strange hadieths.

One hadieth that shocked me and rocked my faith in Allah swt was one concerning women in fact many concerning women, one hadieth states if a man desires a women of this world when he see her in jannah he will immediately enter her!! others concerned women who had been slapped and beaten and were told that men had a degree above them so submit and put up with it. in fact there were so many abusive hadieth towards women.

Tasfir was even more confusing, even though certain verses applied just to certain groups of people i.e wives of the prophets or the prophets some commentators take the meaning completely out of context and twist for for their own purpose and desires.

Most books written only on hadieth seem to be truly sexist and male orientated and have many hadieth on beating women, not allowing the woman to leave the home etc etc, but when it comes to men its a different story as though sin does not apply.

I shifted between many books trying my hardest to find answers to the questions i had because i simply wanted to draw closer to Allah swt, was Allah love? Even if i couldn't clearly understand the verses of the Quran because Allah says "  But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
-- Sura 3:7. would this mean i would never know?

In the end i learnt that any person who says this is a definite or a halal without any proof from the Quran, or who says this is forbidden or will never happen without any proof from the Quran is clearly in error and trying to satisfy ones own desires. Its a shame but now i have to be cautious of which Quran i read!! let alone islamic books!

sorry for long post

Report Spam   Logged

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

TEAM MV Founder
Hero Member
Posts: 6190

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2013, 06:53:59 pm »
Reply with quoteQuote

Walaikum Salaam Ameee.

First off, I had to modify the font color you used.  The dark blue shade against the dark green background on our forum was not easy to read.  So kindly excuse me for making that change.

I understand your confusion arising from studying a big pile of extra-Quranic literature - hadith, tafsirs, fatwas and stories - all ensuing from the human mind.  As we have already made it very plain in our forum, Faith and its rules providing us with our entire code of life come ONLY from the Quran - the ONLY source of guidance.    Everything else is a heap of annexations.  You might find some of these annexations in agreement with the Quran but most of them are not.  Moreover, Quranic commentaries or tafsirs are almost always twisted around to make them sound compatible with the hadith.  The best tafsir can only come from our own minds focused on the Quran only with reflections & contemplations based on the Quranic principles as we understand throughout our readings.  Thus, it's very essential for tafsirs to be INDEPENDENT of the hadith.   I also agree one hundred percent that hadith is by and large awfully misogynistic.  However,  I've stopped worrying about it long ago as it didn't take me long to find out that it's a bundle of ruse, exactly on the same lines as the completely altered Old and New Testaments.  The only difference being, the People of the Book (Jews & Christians) introduced the interpolations directly into their Divine Scripture by gradually altering it fully.  In the case of the Muslims, they couldn't change the Quran as it's the promise of Allah Almighty that He will protect it forever.  Hence, the so-called Muslims who came after the Prophet (sw) devised another channel to promote their man-made laws by side-tracking the Quran.  That other channel is the hadith.   Thus, history repeated itsself.   Beware of hadith and all man-written materials that ensue from it.  Since all tafsirs are dependent on hadith and the altered Bibles, therefore beware of the tafsirs too.   Always try to seek the tafsir through your own understanding of the Quran .. and once you grasp the guidance of Allah, you will be amazed to experience how easy it is to understand the Quran and appreciate its infinite beauty.   The only vital precondition is to keep the Quran independent of all man-written books and seek knowledge from the Quran alone.

I would also like to respond to a few more of your comments / queries by quoting them as follows:

"i remember reading about the story of Adam and Eve and the author and many sheikhs were stating that because iblis was in the garden it was therefor not paradise and so it must have been a garden on earth???"  

The Noble Quran explains itself.  This means, every verse we read and in case we find something we cannot follow too clearly, all we need to do is to look for answers within the Quran itself.  This means, either certain Quranic verses or the basic Quranic principles/guidelines for life will bring the explanation to our minds.

Iblis was not in Paradise when he deceived Adam and his wife, and Adam and his wife were definitely in Paradise when they got deceived by Iblis.  It was not a garden on earth.  The answer to these queries were discussed in our forum very recently by two of our members.  Here is the link.  I also quote the relevant portion that answers this topic for your immediate reference.

I would also like to add, a few weeks ago we were having an after-dinner discussion at a family gathering on Verses 19 to 25 of Surah Al-Araf where Allah mentions of granting Paradise to Adam and his wife and prohibiting them from eating of the forbidden tree.  And then Satan whispers to Adam and his wife with deceit, tempting them  to eat of that tree and they fall into Satan's temptation.   Someone asked, how did Satan whisper to Adam and his wife?  Did he enter Paradise or did he approach them in some other way?   The answer to this question is in Verse 27 of Surah Al-Araf, quote:

"O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that he might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not."  (7:24).

Prior to Verse 7:24, Allah also mentions about Satan response in Verses 7:16-17 "He said: Now, because Thou hast sent me astray, verily I shall lurk in ambush for them on Thy Right Path.  Then I shall come upon them from before them and from behind them and from their right hands and from their left hands, and Thou wilt not find most of them beholden (unto Thee)"  (7:16-17).

The contents of Verse 7:24 and Verses 7:16-17 clearly indicate that Satan's temptations to misguide humans are from the unseen.  When Satan tries to misguide people, he doesn't come and introduce himself to them nor does he 'personally' chat with them.  Rather, he simply puts sinful ideas in peoples' minds & hearts invisibly.   Or, he could lure humans through other misguided humans who have already made a friend of Satan by falling into his temptations.

Coming to the incident in Paradise, Satan was already an outcast at the time he deceived Adam and his wife.  This incident happened after Satan refused to obey Allah when he was commanded by Allah to bow down before Adam.  Therefore, there is no question of Satan ever being allowed to enter Paradise.   According to my understanding, Satan seduced Adam and his wife from the unseen by inspiring them with misguidance and wrong hopes as Allah states "he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not."

Allah is the All-Knower and All-Powerful.   Not even a leaf can fall from a tree without Allah being informed of it.  It is IMPOSSIBLE for the enemy of Allah to enter Paradise with the help of a peacock (or anyone for that matter) without the knowledge of Allah and against the will of Allah.


'Allah says "  But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
-- Sura 3:7. would this mean i would never know?'  

In this verse of the Noble Quran, Allah warns of exactly the kind of intentional misinterpretations that tafsir writers and translators are indulging in by twisting the allegorical verses.   Allegory/allegorical generally refers to an expression or elucidation of an event as symbolic of actions or lessons of truth .... an expression that carries a hidden meaning one needs to perceive.   Thus, there are many so-called readers of the Quran who give an inaccurate spin to many Quranic narrations and expressions to make them compatible with the hadith, the fatwas or their personal concepts & ideas.  That explains much of the mess and contradictions we see in the tafsirs.  Not just that, but many translators of the Quran who add their tafsirs in brackets of Quranic translations also interject incorrect ideas in those brackets.    I repeat, the prime purpose of all such misinterpretations is to forcibly turn around the Quranic explanations and make them compatible with the hadith.

It's only the honest readers of the Quran, whether or not they understand all allegorical and historical references of the Quran, they know one thing for certain that every bit stated in the Quran conforms with the truth and comes from the One Divine Power.  If we don't follow some references or expressions in the Quran, that's nothing to panic about.  In fact, no one can know the exact details of every event or expression contained in the Quran.  Only Allah can know that.  I repeat, the exact explanation and the accurate reference of every Quranic verse can only be known to Allah.  However, we are entitled to interpret the verses based on our reflection & understanding of the Quran as a whole, its specific rules and broad principles.  But none, EXCEPT ALLAH, has the authority to establish their understanding and explanation as the final one.
To get a clearer idea of this topic, please check our post Can there be a universal tafsir of the Quran?

Also, to understand how both traditionalists and modernists twist and turn the explanations of allegorical veses, check our following posts and read them in our own time and at your own pace, but carefully and reflectively so you will understand the Quran better as you move ahead.  Below are a set of 9 posts.

(1) When Jesus ascended, was he dead or living?

(2) Surah An-Naziat (Verses 79:1-5)

(3) Who takes away the souls at the time of death?

(4) Omar bin Khattab (ra) supported QURAN ALONE, no Hadith

(5) If Imam Hussein isn't in the Quran, how can we accept his martyrdom?

(6) Splittig of the moon - Surah Al-Qamar

(7) Does the Quran refer to the story of David and "Bathsheba?"

(8) On 'Gog and Magog' (Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj) and Dhu'l-Qarneyn

(9) Visions of Ezekiel - What does the Quran say about it?

"now i have to be cautious of which Quran i read!! let alone islamic books!"

Those who are fluent in Arabic, that is, the old eloquent Arabic that so articulately defines the beauty of Arabic literature, will have no problem understanding the Quran.  They don't need to depend on translations.  Rather, they read directly from the original - the words of Allah, The Almighty.   The original Quran is identical around the world, no matter which copy or print you read.   But unfortunately, not more than 20% of the entire Muslim Ummah of 1.3 billion people speak Arabic.  Even those 20% who speak Arabic are not taught in schools & colleges to master the eloquence of the Quranic style.   They are also taught not to read the Quran on their own, instead to consult their community imams if they have a question.  When they consult their imams, they are only fed with the falsehoods of hadith and fatwas with the label of "Quran and Sunnah."   So, presuming that you depend on the English translations for reading and understanding the Noble Quran, you will need to be careful which translation (or which translator's work) you choose.  As we suggest to all our readers here, the only two translators we can trust are Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall and Abdel Haleem.  Pickthall's translations are in old English while Abdel Haleem has translated the Quran in modern or contemporary English.  Yusuf Ali, which is the most widely read among English translators, is not reliable.  His translations are aimed at compatibility with hadith.

Thanks for your message.  Allah bless.  

By the way, someone signed  in with the ID "flower" the same day you put up this post.  Please confirm if that ID is yours.  In that case I would confirm it otherwise not.  
Report Spam   Logged

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Send this topic  |  Print  
Jump to:  

+ Quick Reply
With a Quick-Reply you can use bulletin board code and smileys as you would in a normal post, but much more conveniently.
BoldItalicizedUnderlineStrikethrough|GlowShadowMarquee|Preformatted TextLeft AlignCenteredRight Align|Horizontal Rule|Font SizeFont Face
Insert FlashInsert ImageInsert HyperlinkInsert EmailInsert FTP Link|Insert TableInsert Table RowInsert Table Column|SuperscriptSubscriptTeletype|Insert CodeInsert Quote|Insert List
Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry angel Jumping laugh police CatSmiley Sleep smkng sport gdbi cryin dancin simpsons RollLaugh HysLaugh HappyBirthday doggy monkey teddybear sittingbunny BismEm salamem offtem proem oopsem bedtem crybem seeyem thebesem backem soryemt weldem Thumbsup Thumbsdwn rdht teethsmile tonguesmile wsalam tesetong Beatin crazyones LaaughingAway shiiit claaap viictery hiyaaa
Powered by EzPortal
Scammers & spammers will be reported | If you borrow MV contents you must mention our link with hypertext | MV Team is not responsible for comments by members or guests.
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMF For Free - Create your own Forum

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy