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Prophet Noah’s ship docked at Al-Judiyy NOT “Mount Ararat”


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Author Topic: Prophet Noah’s ship docked at Al-Judiyy NOT “Mount Ararat”  (Read 92 times)
Ruhi_Rose
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« on: January 13, 2022, 09:12:46 pm »




 BismEm


The tree of the Prophets shows that Noah was Ibrahim's immediate predecessor.   We do not have any information in the Quran of anyone between Noah and Ibrahim.  But whether or not there was or were any prophet or prophets between them is known to Allah only.  Both Noah and Abraham were taught the prophethood and the scripture.

Again, while only Allah knows best of the precise historical era of Prophet Noah, it is presumed that several generations after Adam the people continued to follow his teachings of believing in ONE God and worshiping ONE God.  That there were a lot of righteous people in the generations soon after Adam.   The death of the elders of these generations caused enormous grief among the people.  As a gesture of love and respect, they started building statues of their pious elders who passed away.  Unfortunately, as time went by, Satan began to deceive them.  Their reverence toward the statues deepened to the extent that they began worshiping them. Gradually and consequently they forgot Allah and deviated from Monotheism.  It was some time during this period that Prophet Noah (pbuh) came as the Messenger of Allah Almighty to convey His Message to his people and call them to guidance.  For sure and without a doubt, Prophet Noah (pbuh) was a very righteous man, forever grateful and loyal to Allah Almighty.  Allah's acceptance of Noah is highlighted in several Verses of the Noble Quran.


"O descendants of those We carried [in the ship] with Noah. Indeed, he was a grateful servant."   17:3  Al-Isra

“And Noah verily prayed unto Us, and gracious was the Hearer of his prayer”  37:75  As-Saffat

“And We saved him and his household from the great distress,”   37:76  As-Saffat

“And made his seed the survivors, (on this earth)”   37:77  As-Saffat

“And left for him among the later folk (the salutation):”   37:78  As-Saffat

“Peace be unto Noah among the worlds!”   37:79   As-Safaat



Final resting place of the ship confirmed in the Noble Quran is  "Al-Jūdiyy"  (ٱلْجُودِيّ).  In Armaic language it is called Qardu. 

“And it was said: O earth! Swallow your water and, O sky! be cleared of clouds! And the water was made to subside. And the commandment was fulfilled. And it (the ship) came to rest on Al-Judiyy and it was said: A far removal for wrongdoing folk!”  11:44 Hud

Al-Judiyy is a spot at the south-east border of modern-day Syria and Turkey.  The altered Christian and Jewish bibles claim the Ark came to rest at “Mount Ararat in Armenia” which is located at the Turkish-Armenian border, approximately 500 km north of al-Judiyy.  But since we already have the Quranic confirmation of Al-Judiyy, therefore the claims of the altered bibles carry NO relevance.  Moreover, the bibles' mention of a place close to Armenia apparently involves bias, picking a modern-day orthodox Christian land.  And though Mount Ararat is close to the Armenian border, it is also located within Turkey like al-Judiyy.  All Western sources keep touting Mt. Ararat as the “resting place of Noah’s ark” only because of its proximity to Armenia taken from the disinformation of the altered bibles contradicting the Quranic assertion in Verse 11:44.

Moreover,  some observers wrongly refer to Ararat as a ‘mountain range.’  It is not a mountain range.  It’s a large  and only volcanic edifice measuring 420 square miles in that territory.  According to modern geological sources, there is no record of Mount Ararat erupting since recorded history.  They  surmise that the last time it might have erupted was in very ancient times, approximately 10,000  years ago.  That hints of the possibility of it being an active volcano in ancient times, providing a still greater logical reason that Mount Ararat could not have been the landing place of Noah’s ark.  The Decree of Allah Almighty would obviously be to rest the ark at a safe place, not near a volcano on barren land.  Also, there are no rivers or lakes or any signs of water in and around  the Ararat region.  That’s the way it looks at present.  In contrast, the area of al-Judiyy in Sirnak province of Turkey has long been known for its serenity, peaceful beauty and fertility. It has quite a few mountains, and many plateaus resulting from lots of rivers across the region including the Tigris river.

Also, Al-Judiyy is apparently not a “mountain.”   The Noble Quran never refers to it as a ‘mountain.’   It simply alludes to the place as “al-Judi” not “Mount Judiyy.”  Obviously the name al-Judiyy is of a specific area which may have included a mountain range or subranges as termed in ancient times in the present Sirnak province of Turkey among the plateaus (tableland) and rivers which are many in that location.

Images and maps below with help to understand better.



Sirnak Province Turkey 2013 Wikipedia



Map Sirnak province Turkey



Distance from Sirnak province to Mt. Ararat -  Google Map



Mt. Ararat:  Barren volcanic area, no water, no rivers.


Al-Judiyy  is also mentioned as "Munzalanm-Mubārakan مُنْزَلًا مُّبَارَكًا, or Blessed landing place in Verse 23:29 Surah Al-Muminun.   To understand Verse 23:29, we need to first understand the two preceding Verses as well.  Therefore Verses 23:27-29 quoted as follows:

“Then We inspired in him, saying:  Make the ship under Our eyes and Our inspiration. Then, when Our command comes and the oven gushes water, introduce therein of every (kind) two spouses, and your household save him thereof against whom the Word has already gone forth. And plead not with Me on behalf of those who have done wrong.  Indeed! they will be drowned.”   23:27 Al-Muminun.

“And when you are on board the ship, you and whoso is with you, then say: Praise be to Allah Who has saved us from the wrongdoing folk!”   23:28 Al-Muminun.

“And say: My Rab! Cause me to land at a blessed landing-place, for You are Best of all who bring to land.”  23:29  Al-Muminun.



Thus as we can read and follow the Divine Words stated above, Verse 23:27 has more or less similar content as Verse 11:40.  In Verses 28 and 29 of Surah Al-Muminun, Allah Almighty is inspiring Prophet Noah (pbuh) not only what Prophet Noah needs to do, but also what he should say after boarding the ship .. “And say: My Rab! Cause me to land at a blessed landing place, ..” 23:29.
Hence the Quranic term “munzalanm mubarakan” meaning ‘blessed landing place’ refers to the place called Al-Judiyy.  It is not specified as a “mountain” or “mount.”

The Divine Narration continues after V.11:44 as follows:

“And Noah cried unto his Rab and said: My Rab!  Indeed! my son is of my household! Surely Your promise is the truth and You are the Most Just of Judges.”  11:45

“He said: O Noah!  Indeed! he is not of your household; indeed! he is of evil conduct, so ask not of Me that whereof you have no knowledge. I admonish you lest you be among the ignorant.”   11:46

“He said: My Rab!  Indeed!  in You do I seek refuge (from the sin) that I should ask of You that whereof I have no knowledge. Unless You forgive me and have mercy on me I shall be among the lost.”   11:47



Finally, it’s necessary to focus on the last Verse that concludes the life story of Prophet Noah covered in the Noble Quran.  The ark docked at al-Judiyy which is the region where Prophet Noah and everyone on board with him disembarked and dispersed to reside there. Allah Almighty blessed them and very likely some of their descendants too.  But after a while, other generations who descended were apparently again corrupted.  Thus Allah says that He would grant them comfort for a while and later cause them to taste punishment.

“It was said, 'O Noah, disembark in security from Us and blessings upon you and upon nations [descending] from those with you. But other nations [of them] We will grant enjoyment; then there will touch them from Us a painful punishment.' " 11:48.

On some more details on Prophet Noah (pbuh) and the great flood, you can look up Verses 7:59-64, 11:38-43 and 29:14-15.





Related posts:

-  Hebrews descendants of Prophet Noah
-  Unjust and false vilification of Prophet Noah in altered bible
-  Flood in Prophet Noah’s era
-  Do not plead before Allah in support of disbelievers
-  Lifespan of Prophet Noah 950 years
-  Heartbreaking dialogue between Prophet Noah and his son
-  Pious family cannot protect sinful relatives on Day of Judgment
-  Does the Noble Quran say that Adam was the first Prophet?
-  The aspect of time span in the Noble Quran
-  Everyone is responsible for their own deeds
-  Pledge of Allah Almighty with all Prophets
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N. Truth Seeker
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2022, 11:45:05 pm »



Three or four months ago we had a inconclusive debate in one of our discussion sessions on Mount Judiyy or Mourt Ararat.  Most of us agreed upon Judiyy without a doubt as it's confirmed by the Noble Quran.  Some lukewarm minds were dithering. 

Your scrutiny is precious as it's based so closely on Quranic information.  That bit you pointed on the difference between al-Judiyy and Mount Judiyy was an eye opener for me.  Very true that the Noble Quran does not call it a mountain.  I had never thought of that before because in all commentaries and discussions the term "Mount" is so meticulously added though the Quran never says that.

A geographer perhaps during the era of the Ommayads whose name I don't recall surmised that Judiyy was a mountain in the Kurdish belt which is close to Sirnak Province.   Same as the analysis here.

Then, during the Abbasid era came an Iraqi historian, Al-Masudi, who came up with a very bizarre notion hardly acceptable.  He said the Ark began its voyage from Kufa (central Iraq) and sailed to Makkah where it circled the Kaaba before finally travelling to Judiyy.   Needless to mention, these details are nowhere in the Quran.  Masudi didn't specify where Judiyy is situated, but I think he considered it to be at the Turkish-Syrian Kurdish belt. 

Another Abbasid era geographer, Yaqut Shihab al-Hamawi of the mid 1100s, said the mountain of al-Judiyy where the Ark stopped is at Jazirat ibn Umar, a town in northern Iraq, north of Mosul to the east of Tigris river. 

According to other views, the great Muslim traveller, Ibn Batuta, passed by this mountain in the 14th century. Of course this story about Ibn Batuta passing al-Judiyy is completely unreliable, rather false, from unknown and undependable sources, most likely Jewish.  Ibn Batuta on his travels never mentioned about visiting the place where the Ark stopped.

While only Allah Almighty knows the precise spot, the human opinion of it being around the Sirnak Province and Kurdish belt is most likely closest to accuracy.

Very good work Sister Ruhi.   Alhumdulilah.    Insh'Allah, I will revive this discussion in one of our future virtual meetings and read your work to everyone.  It eliminates plenty of needless complications and confusions by staying close to Quranic details.  Subhan'Allah.
 
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2022, 05:47:45 am »



Mash'Allah, what an interesting read of an excellent topic. The fact that the Noble Quran has explicitly asserted the landing place as Al-Judiyy, is more than enough as confirmation.  Alhumdulilah.   It's only for curious or secular minds who won't take the Noble Quran as the Final Word, an analysis such as this one proves it all.   Subhan'Allah.

This wonderful write-up gives a fine panoramic view of Prophet Noah’s (pbuh) entire path of life as elucidated in the Noble Quran.  The analysis on al-Judiyy is thoroughly rational, Alhumdulilah.  People are so accustomed to saying “Mount Judiyy” that it has not occurred to anyone as anything other than a mountain.  But certainly as Sister Ruhi pointed out, the Noble Quran has never referred to it as a “mountain” or “hill.”  Sounds much more like a location or territory.  The idea of it being a mountain came from the altered bibles calling it “Mount Ararat.”  That created a traditional fixation on the idea that Prophet Noah’s Ark stopped near a “mountain.”  And Muslim commentators made it “Mount Judiyy” without thinking that there is no mention at all of a mountain in this regard in the Quran.

Thank you again Sister Ruhi and Brother TS.   Wonderfully educative.  Alhumdulilah.


Btw, just for my information, who exactly spoke the Aramaic language?

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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2022, 09:50:01 pm »



You’re totally right Sister Zainab. 

As for Aramaic, it was a very ancient language with some similarities with Hebrew, and probably few similarities with Arabic too.  It was spoken by the people of the ‘land of Aram’ which in ancient times included parts of Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey as shown in this map.  It mostly comprised of Syria.


Titled "Land of Aram" in Wikipedia
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2022, 09:54:45 pm »



I see, so it's now a dead language ..
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2022, 09:56:21 pm »



I suppose I wouldn’t exactly call it a dead language, however, it’s spoken by a very, very small community.  Less than a total of one million scattered communities in the world speak Aramaic today consisting of Arab Jews, orthodox Christians and Sabaeans.  All of them are centered around the Middle East.  When I say ‘Jews’ I mean the real Sematic Jews of the Arab world, NOT the fake white ‘Semites’ (Ashkenazis) of Europe and Russia.
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2022, 09:58:01 pm »



Right, I get your point.   And I didn’t know the Sabaeans (also mentioned in the Noble Quran) are still there.  I thought they had all reverted to Islam or converted to Christianity.
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2022, 09:59:08 pm »




Very few of them left, total global population of Sabaeans not more than 5,000 .. almost all in Iraq. 
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2022, 10:00:16 pm »



Are they followers of Tawheed .. ?
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2022, 10:02:13 pm »



Not much is known about them as they are complete non-entities now and also quite reclusive on account of being so few in number.  But I doubt if the ones at present are true followers of Tawheed.  I’m not sure about those that lived in the 6th and 7th centuries.  Some historians have identified them with ancient Jews and Christians.  But I guess this refers to the Sabaeans of earlier times.  Not the ones now.  I really don’t know what they identify themselves as. 
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2022, 10:03:20 pm »





I see ....  thanks brother.
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2022, 10:03:51 pm »




Very welcome Sister Zainab.
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2022, 10:26:50 pm »





.....


Then, during the Abbasid era came an Iraqi historian, Al-Masudi, who came up with a very bizarre notion hardly acceptable.  He said the Ark began its voyage from Kufa (central Iraq) and sailed to Makkah where it circled the Kaaba before finally travelling to Judiyy.   Needless to mention, these details are nowhere in the Quran.  Masudi didn't specify where Judiyy is situated, but I think he considered it to be at the Turkish-Syrian Kurdish belt. 

Another Abbasid era geographer, Yaqut Shihab al-Hamawi of the mid 1100s, said the mountain of al-Judiyy where the Ark stopped is at Jazirat ibn Umar, a town in northern Iraq, north of Mosul to the east of Tigris river. 

According to other views, the great Muslim traveller, Ibn Batuta, passed by this mountain in the 14th century. Of course this story about Ibn Batuta passing al-Judiyy is completely unreliable, rather false, from unknown and undependable sources, most likely Jewish.  Ibn Batuta on his travels never mentioned about visiting the place where the Ark stopped.



Hamawi's version sounds close to accuracy.  Masudi's claim sounds like he is writing a forged hadith.  And of course I also never heard nor read of Ibn Batuta travelling to the docking place of the Ark. 

Bts, there's this book titled "Journal of Quranic Studies" by Abdel Haleem, the Quran translator.  The goal of this journal is to promote the study of the Noble Quran in various scholarly perspectives. It's available in Arabic as well as English.  That sounds excellent.  I'm told "the journal bridges the gap between the two traditions of Muslim and Western scholarship."   I just hope the efforts of 'bridging gaps' doesn't lead to misinterpretations of Quranic Verses for the sake of eradicating the gaps.  Insh'Allah not, as Abdel Haleem, I presume, is a reliable author. 

Neither me nor my husband have read it yet.  Insh'Allah, we hope to buy it some time in future if sold online or offline.  The journal also consists of a very good understanding of the deluge in Prophet Noah's (pbuh) time.
 





 
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2022, 10:52:06 pm »



Yes Sister, as I hear too, the Journal of Quranic Studies is a very good source of knowledge on the Quran.  Alhumdulilah.  Thanks for the excerpt on Prophet Noah's story.  It's written very well.
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2022, 10:53:39 pm »



Mash'Allah, sounds very nice.  Thanks for the info Sister Ruhi.   Would anyone know if it's available for purchase online?
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